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PERFORMANCE MODS: NCY CVT Upgrade kit

 
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Lostmycage
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 5:53 am    Post subject: PERFORMANCE MODS: NCY CVT Upgrade kit Reply with quote

OK, as promised here's a little ditty on the NCY CVT Set, GY6 125 part# 1200-1048 . I'm not going to go over how to install it right now, just some comparisons to stock and Dr Pulley and a review of the kit in general.

Very important note: I suggest you try to order this through your local dealer. I like Scooterworks just fine but I support my dealer first because if there's something wrong that I can't figure out or don't have the resources to fix, I want them to be around. Second note: Scooterworks [edit] had an error on their website. They have two kits, this one and the 1200-1047. The 1200-1047 is actually an NCY kit for the Yamaha Vino but it *was* listed incorrectly a GY6 kit. DO NOT get the 1200-1047 kit for your Buddy or Blur, you'll just be angry. You want the 1200-1048 kit. Now, back to the review.... [edited to clarify new part number]

If you just want the gist of the whole thing without reading through this then here it is:

If you're running a stock 125/150 Buddy/Blur CVT and you're thinking about upgrading the transmission this kit is a fantastic buy. It rebuilds the entire CVT system with really nice components that give brisker acceleration and a smoother ride to boot. Get it, you're done - have a lovely day.

IF you've already started upgrading the CVT (roller/slider weights DO NOT count), you're money could be better spent elsewhere. I do highly recommend the components, all of which you can buy piecemeal.

Now, the comparisons:
I took the parts down to the post office and weighed them all separately. Sadly, I don't have a scale at my house, so we have to make due with the Postal scales.

As you can see, the NCY stuff is considerably lighter than stock and has a slight edge on Dr Pulley in weight.

Now the Variator ramps:

As you can see the Dr Pulley and the NCY have less material hence the lighter weight. The pulley faces are a little harder to read, but the NCY allows the belt to ride slightly tighter (it's narrower in the middle) which gives it really good takeoff characteristics, a great option for launches (heavier shoe springs in the clutch).

Fan Pulley:

Here we see that the Stock and Dr Pulley are fairly similar and the NCY has the fan tips as part of the pulley surface. This helps to cool the belt at higher speeds. For some reason, I had a brain fart and didn't take a pic of the three on the fan side. I'll edit this later to include that. The stock fan is HUGE. I've no doubt that it moves air in the CVT without issue, which is a good thing. The Dr Pulley fans are minuscule at best... less air flow and less rotational drag - the jury's out on that one. The NCY has a low profile fan (compared to stock - still substantially larger than the Dr Pulley) but it's cooling fans make direct contact with the belt; that makes me think that it has the best properties of both the stock and Dr Pulley - less rotational drag but more direct cooling on the belt. Only time will tell, but I think that might extend the belt life. It's worth noting that the NCY is 3.2oz lighter than stock (that's almost half!!!) and .4oz lighter than the Dr Pulley. That's less power lost on inertia and more transferred to the rear wheel.

edit Here's the promised comparison pics of the fan faces.


Ramp measurements. I don't really have a method for measuring the curvature of the weight ramps so I just measured the total travel.

Both aftermarket variators provide an improvement over stock. The Dr Pulley gives the weights more room to travel (ramp length), whereas the NCY gives the belt more room to travel (Pulley face). What this comes down to is that the Dr Pulley adds more travel at the top end of the speed range but the NCY adds to both the top and the bottom.

When I did a comparison of the two (I put the variators on and left everything else the same between both runs using Dr Pulley 12g Slider weights) what I noticed was that the NCY gave considerably more bottom end and started loosing acceleration around 45-50mph where the Dr Pulley didn't launch quite as strong but kept it's acceleration up to about 50-55mph. Top speed was pretty much the same once the NCY had a few miles on it. Very nominal difference with an edge to Dr Pulley (3mph more). Given the way that the NCY variator handles, it feels like it wants slightly heavier weights, which would negate the marginal top speed.

Now the rest of the kit: Adjustable secondary sheeve (a.k.a. "Torque Driver"), lightened and vented clutch bell and performance clutch and spring bearing seat.

The Clutch:

The NCY hits harder (weight savings is in the body, not the shoes so less energy is expended on rotating the entire assembly), is more easily adjusted (the springs can be replaced without taking anything apart) and has a considerable amount more surface contact (less slipping). Versus stock, it's a hands down winner.

Lightened/Vented Clutch Bell:

Here's another nice touch. The NCY Clutch Bell is lightened by 1.3oz (less engine power lost by rotational inertia) and vented! That means it stays cooler so you can use higher rated springs for a harder launch with less chance of overheating the bell. The added pad size on the clutch helps a lot with slipping (the cause of overheating the Clutch Bell), but the vents add that much more to it. The fancy-pants "N" cutouts are not ever seen behind the CVT cover, so worry not if you're trying to keep that "sleeper" look. Seriously, it's differences are subtle but well thought out. The inner surface is nice and rough for maximum grip, but I don't want to focus on that too much since it's brand new and being compared to a stock clutch with about 5000 "spirited" Blur distance units on it. I suspect that the vents will help it keep that rough surface (that's a good thing - it gives better grip which means less slipping).




The Secondary Sliding Sheave:

The secondary sliding sheave has two grooves. One (right) is the same as stock: a straight line. The other (right) has a bend in the groove. Understanding exactly what this does was really tough to find out. Actually, it's tougher to explain... but I'll give it a go: What the bend does is once the rear driven pulley expands past that point, it sort of "locks in" the higher gear setting. In normal CVT operation, the pulleys are constantly variating (duh!) which means at any time if pressure is let off from the engine, the Contra spring pushes the rear pulley back together. What happens with this new design is that it's "held" into the higher gear range longer, allowing the engine to work a little less. Basically, it helps hold speed, such as in the instance of a lighter weight. Remember earlier when I said that the NCY variator feels like it might like heavier weights? This corrects that. It really is a balanced kit. I've used a "performance sheave" for a while now (before this one) and what I've noticed is that once I'm in my cruising speed, the RPMs dip down a bit and the engine doesn't have to work as hard. I've noticed a slight increase in fuel savings. But it still allows for the acceleration of a slightly lighter weight set.

Spring bearing seat:

This is simply a new cover for the sliding sheave but with an added bonus. It houses bearings in between the two halves. These allow the spring to rotate. It gives a MUCH smoother transfer of pressure in the driven pulley. The spring is allowed to rotate instead of binding. Basically it smooths out the ride at higher speeds quite noticeably. If you decide not to get this kit (already upgraded part of the CVT) you can buy this separately and I heartily recommend that you do. Smooth! Got it?

OK, so that's all the parts. Once I put them together, they performed really well compared to stock and the whole kit is just fantastic compared to the Dr Pulley variator alone. I even went back to the stock weights (they only had 1500 miles on them - practically new) and the ride was brisker and much smoother than stock. I still want to try running half stock half NCY 10g rollers (the size of the weights included). I suspect that they'll be damn near perfect - but weather is not being cooperative *at all* this week. That might have to take a back burner for the time being.


Overall, this is a fantastically priced (compared to the parts piecemeal or other performance parts) and extremely well balanced kit that can be installed and enjoyed. It improved both acceleration and top speed, but even better than that: it makes the ride so much smoother!

I hands down recommend this. If you're thinking about upgrading to a Dr Pulley, that's half the price of this kit but you get SO MUCH MORE for your money. If you've already got a Dr Pulley, the rear half of the kit can be bought individually and I suggest you go with them: Clutch, Bell, Spring Bearing, Performance sheave. I don't think you'd be disappointed at all.

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Last edited by Lostmycage on Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:48 am; edited 3 times in total
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davelhunter
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome review. The pics really help to understand the parts of this package. What was the difference in top speed from your previous top speed with just the Dr. Pulley variator?
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the NCY was about 2mph slower. I honestly think they're capable of the same top speed (there's no really good long stretches around here that I'm willing to bet against a ticket to test) but the NCY felt like it wanted heavier weights than the (used) 12g sliders that I used in the comparison.

For in town traffic driving, the NCY beats the Dr Pulley hands down because it has better acceleration in the low to mid range (0-45mph). The Dr Pulley held the acceleration in the mid to top range (35-55) better. I think that if the NCY variator (clutch assembly left stock) had heavier weights (stock range i.e. 13g) it'd perform the same as the Dr Pulley with lighter than stock weights (the 12 sliders that I used to compare the two). But with the full kit installed and using the stock weights, I was able to match the top speed and high end pull of the Dr Pulley variator alone, but with a smoother and more predictable ride.

I'll try out a slightly lighter weight setup later on and I have no doubts that the full kit will get me to the same top speed as the Dr Pulley Variator (alone) but with a smoother ride and better throttle response, not to mention the really nice off the line acceleration (which is key for city driving).

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bgwss
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are the stock weights for the Blur or Buddy 150?
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best I can tell, they are 13g.
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow!

Very nice write up – didn’t realize there were so many different approaches, and differences.
Thanx revealing those subtle mysteries
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is awesome. Even a great learning tool for us "non-voodoo" folk. Thanks LMC.
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent job on the write up pal. I've been eyeing that clutch set up for awhile now. I may be pulling the trigger soon on that bad boy.
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voodoolicious. One of the best tech reviews ever! Thanks.
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome voodoo stuff there Witchdoctor! You've definitely sold me on an NCY CVT upgrade once I am ready to change out the stock. I'm waiting for my rollers to wear enough to feel like I "got my money's worth" out of the stock variator. (I'm at 3,200 miles now... Maybe this summer I'll order the NCY kit.)

I like the digital calipers and wrench in the background of some of the shots. Gave it an "evil laboratory" feel! Make sure future pics have cauldrons and voodoo dolls in the background... ...oh and say stuff like this in your reviews:
Quote:
The NCY has a low profile fan (compared to stock - still substantially larger than the Dr Pulley) but it's cooling fans make direct contact with the belt; that makes me think that it has the best properties of both the stock and Dr Pulley - less rotational drag but more direct cooling on the belt. This new fan design also radiates a dread aura and helps terrorize your victims.

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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broke wrote:
Awesome voodoo stuff there Witchdoctor! You've definitely sold me on an NCY CVT upgrade once I am ready to change out the stock. I'm waiting for my rollers to wear enough to feel like I "got my money's worth" out of the stock variator. (I'm at 3,200 miles now... Maybe this summer I'll order the NCY kit.)

I like the digital calipers and wrench in the background of some of the shots. Gave it an "evil laboratory" feel! Make sure future pics have cauldrons and voodoo dolls in the background... ...oh and say stuff like this in your reviews:
Quote:
The NCY has a low profile fan (compared to stock - still substantially larger than the Dr Pulley) but it's cooling fans make direct contact with the belt; that makes me think that it has the best properties of both the stock and Dr Pulley - less rotational drag but more direct cooling on the belt. This new fan design also radiates a dread aura and helps terrorize your victims.


I ordered all of the clutch side yesterday. This review had a lot to do with it! Thanks LMC.

For anyone wondering why I didn't post a tech guide to the cylinder kit, well, I intended to but I realized such a thing might make rebuilding the top side of your already perfectly good engine an obtainable task to the inexperienced. Which it is not. I basically felt that I didn't want to be responsible for folks here blowing up their motors. I decided that if anyone needs such a tutorial, they should not attempt it themselves.

BTW, my kitted little wheelie demon is doing fine. My 150cc head should be in soon and it's only going to make things sicker! We need to arrange a Voodoo Buddy meet up one of these days.

Dustin

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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

djelliott wrote:

I ordered all of the clutch side yesterday. This review had a lot to do with it! Thanks LMC.

For anyone wondering why I didn't post a tech guide to the cylinder kit, well, I intended to but I realized such a thing might make rebuilding the top side of your already perfectly good engine an obtainable task to the inexperienced. Which it is not. I basically felt that I didn't want to be responsible for folks here blowing up their motors. I decided that if anyone needs such a tutorial, they should not attempt it themselves.

BTW, my kitted little wheelie demon is doing fine. My 150cc head should be in soon and it's only going to make things sicker! We need to arrange a Voodoo Buddy meet up one of these days.

Dustin

Mine should be here on monday or tuesday with my cam. Where do you want to meet? I vote Idaho, it's between you and Kaos Laughing.

Ok, not really

I am driving right past you when I move to MA though, I'll have to stop by for a short ride Wink

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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScooterTrash wrote:
I am driving right past you when I move to MA though, I'll have to stop by for a short ride Wink

Why oh why would anyone want to move away from the happening metropolis of I.F.? Wink

My wife is visiting her aunt's in Salt Lake right now and she called me tonight to thank me for moving her away from BFE Idaho!

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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

djelliott wrote:
I basically felt that I didn't want to be responsible for folks here blowing up their motors. I decided that if anyone needs such a tutorial, they should not attempt it themselves.

It's ok. If I screw something up on a CVT install, I know of a certain local scooter wiz-kid that I can probably convince to help an MB'er in need.

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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aw man, now I really want one. I will be strong and avoid any more disastrous upgrades since I can't really afford them to begin with. I am astonished that I read that entire review from beginning to end, when normally I would read a couple sentences and then scroll down to the pictures, then read the last sentence. Kudos to you on a very interesting and informative review! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

broke wrote:
ScooterTrash wrote:
I am driving right past you when I move to MA though, I'll have to stop by for a short ride Wink

Why oh why would anyone want to move away from the happening metropolis of I.F.? Wink

My wife is visiting her aunt's in Salt Lake right now and she called me tonight to thank me for moving her away from BFE Idaho!

I love it here, I would never leave if I were single Wink

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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KRUSTYburger wrote:
Aw man, now I really want one. I will be strong and avoid any more disastrous upgrades since I can't really afford them to begin with. I am astonished that I read that entire review from beginning to end, when normally I would read a couple sentences and then scroll down to the pictures, then read the last sentence. Kudos to you on a very interesting and informative review! Very Happy


Thanks Krusty! That's an awesome compliment. And don't worry, we'll get you all set fairly soon here. Hehehe, Upgrade begets upgrades - it's a slippery slope Smile

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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djelliott wrote:


For anyone wondering why I didn't post a tech guide to the cylinder kit, well, I intended to but I realized such a thing might make rebuilding the top side of your already perfectly good engine an obtainable task to the inexperienced. Which it is not. I basically felt that I didn't want to be responsible for folks here blowing up their motors. I decided that if anyone needs such a tutorial, they should not attempt it themselves.

Dustin


What about us with a bad engine sitting under our kitchen table waiting to be rebuilt? Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScooterTrash wrote:
djelliott wrote:

I ordered all of the clutch side yesterday. This review had a lot to do with it! Thanks LMC.

For anyone wondering why I didn't post a tech guide to the cylinder kit, well, I intended to but I realized such a thing might make rebuilding the top side of your already perfectly good engine an obtainable task to the inexperienced. Which it is not. I basically felt that I didn't want to be responsible for folks here blowing up their motors. I decided that if anyone needs such a tutorial, they should not attempt it themselves.

BTW, my kitted little wheelie demon is doing fine. My 150cc head should be in soon and it's only going to make things sicker! We need to arrange a Voodoo Buddy meet up one of these days.

Dustin

Mine should be here on monday or tuesday with my cam. Where do you want to meet? I vote Idaho, it's between you and Kaos Laughing.

Ok, not really

I am driving right past you when I move to MA though, I'll have to stop by for a short ride Wink


You're moving to MA? Mmmmm, maybe I could bribe you to do some work on my Buddy. Tell me what beer, soda or other drink you drink. And if there's anything you need to know about the state.

Smile

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Lostmycage
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally got around to adding a pic of the fan faces which had totally slipped my mind.

A Quick update on the NCY only kit (I've left my other performance parts off).

As I suspected, once the belt wore itself to the new pulleys and glazed their surfaces, the pull and top end improved. Everything seems to be wearing in pretty nicely and the ride is smoother than ever. I'm pretty impressed with this kit. It's a great one stop solution to improving the ride, and a lot less expensive than buying (not to mention finding!) all the parts separately.

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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent timing. I was just getting ready to get a variator upgrade. I was talking to the mechanic at my scooter shop and he recommended to upgrade the clutch at the same time.
By the way, I couldn't find this particular part # on the scooterworks sight, only the one for the Vino. How much does this cost $.

Howard

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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, that's no good. I swear that's the part that I ordered (I double-checked several times). I know they've been updating their website a bit lately, maybe that's a transition part or they're changing the price. I think it was right around $200.

Ask your dealer if they can order the 1200-1058 kit. I got mine through my dealer. I was told that the 1200-1048 is for the Vino. I'll do a little digging around and see what I can find out. Or try giving SW a call. I'd avoid ordering online until it's clear which kit is which.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I just double-checked. 1200-1058 is the old part number. The new part number is 1200-1048 which should be the same kit I got. The Vino kit is 1200-1047. They're reorganizing their warehouse and updating their website.

So, you now want the 1200-1048 kit. I'll edit/update the original post with that now.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Confirm on the part now being the 1048. I ordered it today. Can't wait to get it and get it installed!
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you'll be happy with it. Watch out for those bearings, they're slippery (assemble it and install it upside down, hold it to the sheeve then flip the entire assembly over) If you have a large clean plastic tub to assemble it over that would be best. PM me if you get stuck. Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought I'd post here instead of the Vodoo Buddy thread as it is directly more relevant to this transmission.

I took mine out for the first ride today. In many ways I am impressed and unimpressed. I will reserve final judgment until after I get done tuning. My top speed has totally nosedived even with my big bore stroker motor.

I started out with 11g sliders as I definitely thought the supplied weights would be too light. Turns out the 11g are way too light and for my application even the 12g sliders are as well. This is getting expensive ordering these things (sliders).

I have been thinking about this a bit. While I could put in 13g or 14g sliders that I plan to order, I have been thinking that maybe the contra spring is too strong. I read somewhere that it should be the same height as the stock one. Mine was about twice as long. This maybe too strong and not permitting my scoot to reach the highest gear ratio.

I plan to pull the cover off tomorrow and run it and see if it is actually getting there. Maybe I'll put back on the stock contra springs with the 12g weights and see how it works.

Going from the 11 to the 12's seems to get the motor closer to its sweetspot. If I put in 13 or 14's it might then be too low. It seems like at this point I should try the original contra spring. What leads me to this conclusion as well is as soon as I let off the throttle, it IMMEDIATELY starts to slow down as if you were downshifting a normal motorcycle or car to a lower gear. I mean you truly feel engine braking from the scooter.

I have lost a solid 7-8mph off top end compared to my stone stock 150 even with the big bore kit. I am still dialing in the jetting but that isn't what's to blame here.

Anybody else experience this? I think the 13 might just be a bandaid that disguises the problem of possibly a too strong contra spring. I am beginning to think why the heck did they put those very light roller weights in the kit AND the super heavy contra spring. Maybe they made the clutch kit for a buggy rather than a scooter... Out of the box it isn't even remotely close for a Buddy.

I must comment though that the kit is very nice quality and it is very smooth. Of that I'm pleased but so far the I'm still debating about the actual performance improvement. I am still waiting for everything to break-in so I am being patient. I can see the potential but now I just need to tune to unlock it (as if my days aren't busy enough).

At this point I am regretting modding my Buddy. That may change in the next few days as I have more time to throw at it. I've modded enough vehicles to know that this can be a time consuming process. I quite honestly thought that I'd be starting from a better point based on what I've read here. Maybe my expectation were just too high. I wanted my Buddy to be able to hit a true 70 mph (not indicated but TRUE). I was consistently at 62-64mph true and the big bore/stroker motor with big valve head and a cam, pipe, NCY trans combo should have gotten me there. I'll give it more time and see where I end up.

I've got a fair amount of time and money invested so far. It looks like there will be even more invested of both until I get everything sorted out. The trans seems like the first step that might really be holding me back.
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ericalm
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you install the cylinder kit and the variator at the same time?

Engines in this size range are very responsive to change and different outside factors. This is one reason why acceleration, top speed and fuel economy on two stock scoots will differ between riders depending on everything from their weight and size to tire inflation. The same mods on two scooters can have similarly inconsistent results. I know I've said before that it can be a slippery slope of expense and tuning one system to respond to another and I think you're starting to experience that.

My first piece of advice would have been to do any major modifications incrementally, allowing them to break in and get settled before doing another. This not only allows you to get the most out of each individual mod, but will also provide a sense of how much change or improvement you're getting out of them.

Optimal roller/slider weights for your performance goals will vary by rider and may require some experimentation. There is a trade off, but I haven't heard of anyone losing so much off the top end. That seems unusual to me.

How many miles on the new cylinder kit? It needs to be broken in like a new engine. Also, did you re-jet?

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Taz
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a limited amount of time to spend on my scooter hobby. So I had almost no options other than to do everything at once. I am very aware of the incremental approach vs. the all in one. The incremental approach can allow you to maximize each individual part BUT so often the next upgrade forces you start from scratch in many ways.

So if someone were to pay a shop to work out all the tuning required, they'd likely spend more in tuning incrementally than probably installing it all in the first place. Additionally I knew a simple pipe swap and variator change would not get me to where I needed to be. Our riding season here is very short. We finally just got a few days in the 80's after being in the 50's and 60's in previous weeks. If I did it in such tiny steps, I'd still be working on it come next year.

Yes, I did rejet as well. That is not dialed in totally yet BUT I can also tell it is not the source of my top speed loss. Almost 100% it is transmission related. I know that break-in will help me pick up some lost top speed as well as better jetting. However both of those will have more of an effect on the HP/torque of the motor. The motor is definitely stronger than before AND I have a race CDI with and adjustable rev limiter. The motor is definitely capable of turning higher revs than before. However I have it setup to not rev so high as to be unsafe.

The immediate problem for me is one of gearing. The engine at 55mph is turning MUCH higher rpms than before at 60-64 mph. Again all speeds are according to the GPS. So it is obvious that I am not getting the appropriate gear ratio for top speed that I was before. So basically with the tranny there are three things I have left I can possibly tune.

The slider weights (going much heavier though could start to knock of acceleration)
Contra spring (if it is too stiff it can prevent me from getting "top gear")
Actual drive gears themselves - (last resort if all other things can't be tuned enough to accommodate my motor mods)

Ultimately I may need a drive gear ratio change to meet my ultimate top speed goals BUT that shouldn't be necessary at this point as my Buddy before would hit the speeds I'd like to see even if down a slight hill. My Buddy would hit 70 mph which means the gear ratio in stock form should allow me to get where I need to be. It is now a matter of mixing an matching the available parts to realize that without changing the final drive ratio.

The quality of the kit is very good. I still think it came more likely setup for a buggy than a scooter with respect to weights and springs. When you let off the throttle, it truly feels like you are getting a lot of engine braking and while some of that can be attributed to the bigger motor, it is more likely 90% due to the kit's contra spring based on the revs of the motor. I don't mind that aspect of it if it isn't actually inhibiting my tops speed. I am going to go out and mark the pulleys and do higher speed runs and see if I am getting full movement on the pulleys to test my theory.

If nothing else my experience will help others fine tune theirs. The kits have a lot of potential and I am no stranger to building motors and tuning. I was actively involved in racing for about 20 years and paid my way through engineering school working at a very large motorcycle shop in the service area before I became the service manager and ultimately working for Honda though I no longer work there now. I love to wrench on vehicles when I have the time. I just don't have a lot of time to do it. I work 60-70 hours a week at my normal job when I factor in my travel schedule. My Buddy is my time to decompress and have fun without worrying about collecting tickets as easily as I could on my sport bike. I just wanted to up the risk a bit in that department with my Buddy. Very Happy
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Lostmycage
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I'm confused on the Contra spring. The one I got with my kit was shorter than the stock spring (for the Blur). It was black and clearly labeled as a 1k spring.

I've also noticed that the NCY variator really likes a heavier weight than the Dr Pulley variator. It did pretty decent with 13g sliders. But I agree, slider weights can get expensive in a hurry if you don't know the exact weight you need.

Taz, try the stock Contra spring and some heavier weights. With the other mods, your engine is pushing out more power. The 11-12g recommendation that you hear from everyone else pertains to the stock power level. Try something heavy to avoid just over-revving it.

I understand your reasons for going whole-hog in your upgrade, but even still, to get a better feel for the causes, I'd convert back to the stock CVT set-up (at least the variator and Contra spring) so you can get a handle on what the new engine likes.

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newslinky
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Joined: 12 Jul 2008
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Location: Arlington, TX USA
Buddy International St. Tropez 150

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First let me say really great review amd I am liking the extra feedback from Taz since he is upgrading a 150 and that is what I have. In my case I am leaning toward this kit now thanks to your review but I have several questions before I make the call to my dealer and get him to order me one. (That he will install for me Embarassed )
OK first my Buddy International 150 is totaly stock currently. In fact its all original parts and I am in the 8100 mile range now. I know my rollers are worn because my acceleration has dropped off a bit and when I go to accelrate I can feel them click into place after a split second hitting the throttle. Heck over 8k miles on the original rollers I think I am doing damn good. Still it is time to replace them and I figure if I am going to do that I may as well go for an upgrade! On to my questions:

1: Sliders or rollers? I was planning on going sliders because the reccomendations I have read here seem to favor them and the way they wear over rollers. Is there a particular brand that fits best in this kit? Which brand would you recommend for best wear over time? I do plan on going with the near stock weight of 13g (Is that correct?) fully expecting that to increase my acceleration and it sounds like it will do the trick adding some to my top end though that would be a bonus for me not a necessity.

2: What is the best belt for my Buddy 150? I feel pretty confident that I should be looking at a belt replacement but I need to ask what is the expected normal mileage one can expect from the stock belt?

Thats it for my questions for now. Thanks again for the review and any additional recommendations are always appreciated.

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loodieboy
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Location: Ft. Thomas, KY
Buddy 125 & Stella

PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dropped this set in this weekend together with 11g Dr. Pulley Sliders and the secondary sliding sheave set in the performance grooves. At this point, it is far from broken in (I also dropped a new belt in while I was at it), but here are my initial impressions.

Off the line, it is quicker than when I was running a Dr. Pulley variator with 11g weights, stock clutch with 1500 rpm springs, and a 1000 contra spring. Actually much quicker. Clutch engagement is very smooth, and I hit 30 mph very quickly.

At about 30 mph, it lags ( I didn't have this lag before, acceleration was pretty much steady), but it picks up again at about 40 - 45 mph, not as much umph as the low end, but acceleration and deceleration is very smooth and steady. Much less engine breaking (if that is what I was feeling) than with my previous set-up.

As for top end, I have only had the opportunity to run it up to 60 mph so far, and there seems to be more left on the top end, how much I hope to find out soon. Hill climbing is good which is important for me because there is a long hill (maybe 2.5 miles) on my homebound commute.

So, I wonder if that midrange lag is due to the performance grooves, a trade-off for the smoother high-end performance?

One other surprise. I tried to install NCY GY6 1500 rmp clutch springs while I was assembling everything, but they were too long for the clutch arms. Weird. What is up with that? Did I want the Vino's? Anyway, now I don't feel like I need them anyway, those larger clutch pads seem to make up the difference, and I cannot complain at all about the low-range performance of this set-up.

BTW, gotta love those ball bearings. I have incredibly poor eyesight, and reading glasses were useless. I had to use a magnifying glass. I'm getting old.

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Lostmycage
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not completely positive on the effectiveness on this one, but as far as the shoe springs, the standard "GY6" Springs don't work on this clutch. I'm a little miffed about that, actually. What I happened to stumble onto is that the "Vino 125" springs do fit it. The problem is that it's kind of a crap-shoot as to whether or not those springs work as they're rated.

The lag that you're feeling is the shift in the ramp angle. It's made to let you accelerate fast off the line then settle into a "cruising" range. The net effect is a lowering of your RPM's at cruising speed. It feels very awkward at first, but you get used to it. You can always switch the guide pins back to the straight ramps to get a reference.

All this said, and after using this set-up for a while, I have to say, I don't think it's worth the money for a non-modified engine. There's other things that you can spend your money on and get a better net effect on.

The quality is very nice, don't get me wrong. I just think this is a very specialized mod.

Anyone interested in a slightly used NCY kit? It's time to try something new Laughing

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toycoma98
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Location: Guam
PGO-METRO 125

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok i'm confused. I had this kit installed and was not impressed. Lost top-end.

Whats the best weight to use for the variator? Whats the stock? So i can have the same top-end speed (about 68+MPH).

The kit came with a 10g weights and a 1000 spring. Right now its got 9g and the 1000 installed. Top speed is about 62-63 MPH.

How do i get my top-end back?

Also whats the secondary sliding sheave about? Whats better stock (straight) or the performance (curved) setting?

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Lond0s
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Joined: 11 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am almost done installing the transmission upgrade. I am just a bit confused by one piece. How do I get the clutch side / driven pulley apart to I can put in the new performance sliding sheave. Maybe I'm missing something obvious but can't seem to figure this out

Thanks in advance
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lovemysan
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Location: kansas city mo
2009 buddy 125, 2003 myBUBU 125, 2008 Stella

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PSA: I know I'm dredging up an old post but there are some changes to the kit that should be noted. If you order the GY6 kit for the buddy, the clutch now comes equipped with standard GY6 springs. The vino springs will not fit. Its very clear NCY has updated the clutch design. Also this variator combined with the supplied contra spring and stock torque sheave groove will require 2-3 gram heavier weights to maintain your pre NCY rpms during acceleration. I was running 12 grams and was happy with my mileage, accel, and topend. Now its revving too high.
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150 havoc
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Joined: 03 Jul 2014
Posts: 5
Location: delray beach fl
150 havoc

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:19 am    Post subject: 1200-1048 kit Reply with quote

My kit came with red (2000) big spring
rollers I think 10/11 grams (I dont have a scale)
orange cluth springs

Great lowend rpm high and lost 4-5 on the top end
Back to boca scooter we go
black (1000) spring # 1200-1026
ncy rollers 12 grams # 1200-1046
ncy clutch springs (1000) 1200-1023
Lost alittle lowend {clutch springs} but good mid and my best topend so far on this stock motor. Rpm may be a little low with the 12 grams,but I drive city and beach so this is a nice smooth ride.Next oil change I may have boca scooter put in 11 grams
karl age 51
Thanks to boca scooter for understanding and tuning for what I want
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150 havoc
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Joined: 03 Jul 2014
Posts: 5
Location: delray beach fl
150 havoc

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:03 pm    Post subject: rpm up-date Reply with quote

Just to up-date boca scooters setup. the Havoc 150cc constant engine speed is 6240-6660rpm [tiny-tack] Useable rpm is 5k-6720rpm.The peak torque is 6k so this setup feels good.The first setup had alot of bottomend but reved too much for me

Karl

ps. the havocs engine is a yg6-b [yg7] longcase
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150 havoc
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Joined: 03 Jul 2014
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Location: delray beach fl
150 havoc

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:22 am    Post subject: 150 havoc up-date Reply with quote

cleaned up exhaust pipe ,weld ect [helped] 7200 max
exhaust from scrappy 7400 max [very little more pull]
3 13 gram sliders
3 11 gram sliders
open up air box 112 jet [pulled better]
125 jet [feels the same,tack said the same]
speedo hits the side of the shell [55-58]no gps tiny tack 7400 max.
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