Scooters are invisible

[Latch]

i just dont understand, why does everyone who is not a scooterist hate scooters so much? A cager sees a scooter and assumes that the only reason someone is riding it is because they have to, like its all they can afford or they got it because they had a DUI or something. they must be invisible because no matter how fast you are going cars pull out or turn right in front of you like you are standing still! Example: im driving my car at 25-30MPH in a 25MPH zone, im keeping up with traffic and no one is angry at me. Then im driving my scooter 40MPH down the same stretch of 25MPH road and cars are tailgating, passing me, honking at me like im holding them up, this just blows my mind. My wife was stopped by police twice in two days on her roughhouse, once for "holding up traffic" when she was driving five MPH OVER the speed limit! and again for "not being in the right lane" and as far as I know there is NO law about a moped having to stay to the right in the city of Richmond. What is the deal, does anyone else have problems with cops hating on scooters?

[Cheshire]

I've dealt with this on bicycles. Learn the law in your area, as in know it as if you were a lawyer. If you feel you need to, carry a printed out copy of the vehicular laws that apply to your scooter.
Be polite to the police, even if they're not to you. Fighting/arguing back gets you nothing but lost ground.

Yeah, cars see scooters, regardless of size, and assume you're crawling...regardless what the speed limit is, regardless what you're actually going at. Expect it, learn to work with it and around it. Don't let the buggers get you down.

[LuvMyScoot]

I think alot of that anger comes from the fact that many 50cc scooterists are not mindful of the traffic around them. For instance, where my sister lives in SC there are scoots that go way below the speed limit and instead of moving off to the side to let the traffic pass they hold everyone up. I think this leads to a general distaste for all things scooter, even when the scooterist is going the speed limit or is very mindful of cars. A case of a few bad apples spoiling the bunch, so to speak.

As for cops, I can't say. It could be that they assume that someone is on a 50cc because they've lost their license and aren't allowed to drive anything else. This is just a guess though. I don't have any problems with cops when I'm on my Vino Classic.

[kneil67@yahoo.com]

I think scooters have a ti chi thing going on they look like they are going slow because numb brains think they are going slow eventually evolution will catch up with them. me I think they are going faster cause they are small I know I flip people out when I zip past them

[Vic]

Wow, that is extreme! Bad enough from the cagers, but then being stopped by cops for no good reason also (harrassment!)

Bizarre!

Better move to Ohio, we have our troubles with the typical idiots, but there are enough two wheeled vehicles (in central Ohio at least) it is not bad.

I regularly will stop at traffic lights, gas stations or whatever and have people roll down their windows or come up and ask me questions or talk to me about scootering.

I make it a point to wave at traffic cops if they are looking at me (I usually get a slightly startled smile and nod or wave back).

I don't know how I would handle such outright hostility! Wow. I don't know if getting the name of these cops and talking to someone in charge would help, but there is clearly something wrong! You might check in with local bike and scooter shops and see if they have heard anything, also.

Good luck,
-v

[abstraxion]

Vehicles smaller or larger than what you're used to tend to look like they're travelling slower, in my experience. People pull out in front of me whether I'm piloting my scooter or my bus, but rarely when I'm in my car.

[r0sa]

[fs8gbe]

i know the feeling. it seems as if the hotter weather has everybody driving foolishly. every day in to work someone tries to kill me. i've had a few that apologized to me, and that is cool, we aren't perfect and maybe they will pay a tad more attention.

the others i just flip off nice and bright as i pass them

as far as the dui thing that is odd because here in ga, you have to have a valid active driver's license to ride even a 49cc or moped on the roads...

[r0sa]

[TVB]

[sunshinen]

i was pulled over on my scooter in virginia... my tags were expired (I'd moved and missed the registration stuff in the mail). the cop told me multiple times that I was NOT what he'd expected when he pulled me over.

i'm a professional, white female, and i got the impression (perhaps incorrectly??) that they were targeting scooters because they are often ridden by illegals. the cop had a valid reason to pull me over, and he was nice (and he let me off... in addition to being nice). but i found the scooter profiling kind of depressing.

[sunshinen]

[TVB]

I have this hypothesis (as yet untested, but... come on, it's obvious to anyone who's been riding a bike or a scooter for a while) that getting behind the wheel of an automobile reduces one's intelligence by half. I admit that it even applies to me; when I'm driving a car, I have slightly below-average intelligence.

The dissing that scooterists endure isn't just about the scooters. Bicyclists deal with it too. I've been told dozens of times to "get out of the road" on my bicycle, even though state law requires me to be there. I usually respond "I was here first!" which is increasingly true in specific as I get older, but also as a historical class: bicycles pre-date autos. (At least in my state, the political pressure to pave state roads between cities came from bicyclists.)

The problem is that these impaired automobile drivers are easily confused. They've learned how to watch out for other automobiles (at least well enough to avoid too many collisions). And most of them have enough experience with pedestrians that they know how to panic with enough braking and swerving to avoid hitting them most of time.

But they don't see very many 2-wheeled vehicles, so they simply don't understand what those are or how to respond to them. Motorcycles... they figure out after a little consideration that these are essentially automobiles cut in half; they treat them as such. Scooters, mopeds, and bicycles-in-the-street... they really don't know what to do. Many of them have temporary IQs below 50, so they fail to understand the difference between "stay to the right" and "stay out of the way". Most of the time they eventually decide that a bicycle lacks a motor, so it's a pedestrian, and that means it has no rights except that they aren't supposed to hit it. Mopeds and scooters simply befuddle them, however, because they're neither peers nor peds.

More seriously, you have to remember that automobile drivers simply aren't looking where bicycles, mopeds, and slow scooters are required to ride. It isn't in their optical blind spot, but it's in their mental blind spot. Between their cell phone and the radio and the argument with their boss that they're rehearsing in their heads, they don't have the mental capacity to deal with anything more than the automobiles in the lanes ahead, to the side, and behind them. Anything else is (in a very real sense) invisible.

[Coffeejunkie]

I know what you mean if I'm going well over the limit I still get people zipping around me because I'm on a scoot. Drivers here in general suck, but it seems mores so when I'm two wheel instead of 4.

[cadillaczac]

I too get looks from people like I ride a scooter because its all I can afford (I also own(ed) three classic cars, two new cars and two vintage motorcycles) but hey I love my scooter-its my ride of choice. I too have experienced people riding my ass no matter how fast I go, I have gone 60 BMPH in a 35 zone and had cars right on me, on numerous occasions. One thing that strikes me is how accepting the people at my work are of my scooter. These are guys who have raced, built, owned and downright destroyed 1500 HP+ cars (my boss held the record in NHRA Super Stock for 7 years). They are amazed of the qaulity, they love the looks-many think it's an old scooter I fixed up, and are just impressed that I ride it everywhere with no problems. It seems that the people that have nothing to prove are the ones that 'accept' the scooterists. Fortunately I have yet to experience a run in with Johnny Law on my scoot.

[jasondavis48108]

"I think alot of that anger comes from the fact that many 50cc scooterists are not mindful of the traffic around them. For instance, where my sister lives in SC there are scoots that go way below the speed limit and instead of moving off to the side to let the traffic pass they hold everyone up. I think this leads to a general distaste for all things scooter, even when the scooterist is going the speed limit or is very mindful of cars. A case of a few bad apples spoiling the bunch, so to speak." (bold added by me)

This seals it. I'm going to start a 1%er 50cc scooter club. I think I'll call it the Tree Town Holigans (since I live in Ann Arbor) maybe I'll call it the 1/2 %er club since not only do I catch hell from cagers but also from all the folks on thier "big bikes" who think that when we hop on our bikes or scooters we have to follow thier idiotic unwritten rules about treating speed limits as minimum speed requirments. Hell I'm a teacher so maybe I'll get a big arse bad apple tattooed on my middle figner so that when idiot cagers ride my arse even though thiers pleanty of room to pass I can brighten up thier day with some well placed art. Funny thing is, the only folks I don't catch hell from are the police since they seem to be the only ones who realize that us bad apples on our 50cc scooters arn't breaking any laws.

[jbougere]

[Quo Vadimus]

[Cheshire]

I'd recommend finding the reputable bicycle shop local to you, and I don't mean the Evil-Mart or Dick's. (Funny how the latter doesn't need changing...yeah, I used to work at both.)
Ask them about vehicular cycling, or do a google search on "vehicular cycling" with your state in the search criteria. You'll get all sorts of tips, tricks, and whatnot on how to keep legal with keeping the road rage to a minimum.

Just watch your six, from a former cyclist to you. Behind you is one of the biggest threats to two wheels IMHO, followed closely with people pulling out or turning in front/into you.


Eyes open, heads up, watch your six, keep an exit strategy.
Rubber side down.

[Kaos]

Wow, I really can't say I've EVER seen anything more than the friendly ribbing from larger bike riders.

People here in Portland are super friendly to Scooterists(Or Scooter pilots...) and don't seem to mind if they're slower than other traffic.

They *DO* seem surprised when I rocket past them at un scooter-like speeds on the freeway, but thats a whole different issue....

It may be due the fact that Portland has a HUGE bicycle culture, so other two wheeled transport is more accepted. And there's a LOT of scooters as well.

[Prairiedale]

Man, what's with all the pissy attitudes? If you want to change the the perception people have toward cyclists, preaching to the choir on Modern Buddy isn't going make much of a difference. How about writing letters to the editor or op ed pieces for your local newspapers expressing all the good things about scootering? Get the scooter club to do some public service or charity work in your community. Write to your legislators, join groups like the AMA that advocate for cyclists. Sure, it's probably not going to make a big difference, but even if you can bring even a few people around, isn't that a step in the right direction? At the very least you'll be doing something more positive that this.

[r0sa]

[beeporama]

I've had no problems with police, even when riding a 50cc on two-lane roads as I did for years. Scooter profiling must be regional. I did have the gratifying experience of someone zipping around me in the opposing lane when we were in a school zone and I'd slowed appropriately; a crossing guard took her license plate number and yelled at us that she'd be getting a ticket in the mail!

I do feel kind of invisible, though, and wonder if motorcyclists get it too. Someone turning left in front of me from the opposite lane, as though I were invisible or going 10mph, is why I'm currently in a sling. I've gotten a few derogatory comments yelled out windows, but from obvious white trash morons, and way less than the favorable comments. My favorite response is to smile and shrug and say something nonconfrontational; they get so much more worked up and pissed off.

I do agree that bicyclists have it even worse. They get a lot of abuse and are constantly endangered by cars passing with inches of space.

[Cheshire]

I've noticed that there's a direct relation between how nasty people will be with how easily they can get away with it. I don't think tattoo'd, leathered-up Harley cruisers have much problem because Hell's Angels (for example) give chase en masse. Scooters are seen as slower, so people think they can give us crap and then punch the gas and laugh into the rearview mirror. Bicycles, even more so.

Really stupid of me, but there's been 2 occasions that someone rode my tail, flashed headlights, honked, and then buzzed me over a double yellow line. I saw red for a second and tore off after them. When they realized they couldn't ditch me, their driving showed that they were rattled. The first turned down a side road that I knew was an empty dead end, the second pulled into a turn lane and let me pass...along with a couple cars to be between me and him.
Both times I've kicked myself for allowing myself to be baited like that...could've ended badly. I'm working on my temper: road rage and 2 wheels just don't give a good result.

Both occasions I was going over the speed limit, both occasions they thought I was a 50cc that couldn't top 35 mph. Both occasions they tore off at 50-60 mph after they passed me.

[twoscoots]

We've had our scoots since last year, and haven't had any trouble with RPD. Granted, we both ride 125s and are able to keep up with traffic without a problem. I've seen Roughhouses all over town, and they've always been in the right lane. Most of our two-lane roads are at least 35MPH, which is above the rated speed limit for a 50cc, correct? Also, you mentioned that she was going five over the speed limit on one occasion. It doesn't matter if she's going five over if she's impeding traffic - the left lane is for passing, not slowing other people down. Oh, and don't forget that whole "BMPH" thing - our speedos aren't dead-accurate, so don't go with the numbers - look at the traffic around you.

[gr8dog]

I must say around here my experience has been 99.9% good. I will not allow that 1 in 1000 thoughtless, brainless idiot to spoil my attitude. Whew, now that I have said that I feel better. Sometimes it's just gotta' come out.

I scoot for very few reasons. I started because it looked fun and gas was $4.00 per gallon. I continue because it IS FUN!

In Wisconsin every second motorcycle is a Harley, probably because they are made here. I have found they either ignore you completely or are friendly toward you but never negative. My only bad experiences have been from car drivers and one scooter pilot. I have never been tailgated on the scooter (3500 miles now) but have had cars pull out in front of me. Since I always expect them to do that I always have a plan to avoid the accident, so far so good.

The one scooter experience was this. I was waiting for an opening in oncoming traffic so I could turn left. The moment there was an opening somebody on a 50cc buzzed around me at about 25mph and cut me off. This startled me because I had no idea he was there. The road we turned on to has a 45mph speed limit and his bike could only manage 35mph. Now (my bad attitude) I wanted to pass him out of spite, so I did as soon as I got the chance. Within 30 seconds I couldn't see him in my mirrors anymore. Instead of feeling like I showed him, I realized I was acting like an enraged cager. From this I learned to just enjoy the ride, and if you go a little slower you ride a little longer.

[pugbuddy]

[rabbitgod]

I haven't experienced too much of this. Other than the guy that I wrote about a while back.

I think, due to excellent riding weather, we have two wheelers all year long and people are trained now.

That's not to say that it doesn't happen. A woman cut me off a few weeks ago, I beeped her, she got back into her lane and slowed down. She then shouted out her window, "I'm sorry, I didn't see you!"

I'm usually cool with that. I get that people don't see me, if they give the 'Sorry, I messed up' wave then I'm ok. But the ones that act like I did something to them can go to hell.

My wife has a co worker who rides a moped. He lives just a few miles away and pedals into work then motors back home when he's tired. He was pulled over for something and the cop was a little surprised that the rider was 'normal.' It's unfortunate, but a lot of Tucson mopeds are people who have DUIs or can't afford cars. It's too bad really, it seems like less wheels equals more fun and people won't ever get that.

[Alix B]

Some cars are invisible too. One to be exact.
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/05/04/art-student-creates.html
Shiny Side UP!

[loodieboy]

I have no problems with motorcyclists, and cagers are cagers. My pet peeve is when bicyclists presume to share a lane with me in city traffic. They'll roll up at a light and try their best California stop usually jerking left and right so I have to yield to their unsteady presence when the light changes, and it is 10x worse if it is a turn lane. No offense, bicyclists, I'm happy to share the road with you, just not my piece of the road.

[Latch]

Dont get me wrong, no one is getting me down I love riding my scooter I also have a Honda Accord, just rarely use it the scooter just works so much better in city traffic and parking. It has become a new passion for me sometimes I just go out and ride just to ride. My 50cc RH is derestricted and goes 40-50 no problem, only time I ever hold up traffic is going uphill. Im dissappionted to see that it is a law to be in the right lane, however the officer pulled my wife over immidiatly after she made a left turn and blocked me with his car so i had to stop too. I believe it was scooter profiling. And not everyone is angry at the scooter, it is mostly the white trash rednecks that really try and give you hell, which is when the finger comes into play. I do however have a real problem with the you cant "impede" traffic thing. I dont beleive that in a city setting you should have to stay to the right either. There is no minimum speed, only a maximum, and if an amish horse and buggy can creep along the road with a mile long string of cars behind it, how am I impeding traffic when im traveling over the speed limit on my scoot? Its not my problem that the ford pickup behind me wants to break the law and drive wrecklessly fast. Anyway I will continue to enjoy my scooter, hopefully I will be upgrading to a Rattler 110 soon also, thank you for all the feedback.

[TVB]

[Latch]

[Cheshire]

I'd start asking for badge numbers. I keep a notepad in my riding jacket inner pocket for keeping track of mileage when fueling, service intervals, etc. Start keeping a log of who's pulling you: date/time and badge number. If they are harrassing you, that'll be the evidence. Just keep it friendly. If you get the same badge number more than once, try to make friends!

[LuvMyScoot]

[jasondavis48108]

Oh, I'm certainly not talking about situations like that. In MIchigan it is illigale to go less than 10 mph under the speed limit as far as I know. I also was not talking about folks that are blateanly rude to others using the road, although there have been times when I was not willing to share a lane with someone in a giant SUV cause there simply wasn't enough space in the lane to do so. I'm sure these drivers thought I was being a rude arse, but I was really just trying to stay alive.

[SCOOT3R]

Did cager scream at you while pass you: " your moped should stay on bike lane where it belong to!" or "take the city bus instead of this!" ?? Mm...

[Major Redneck]

I drive my bikes (scoots, big bikes) as if i stold it,,, and as if everyone is trying to hit me... Sorry i OWN the lane im in, I do not ride over to the right side of the road at slower than posted speed limit. Maybe they should have left 5min. earlier.

I also ride with a few local lawdowgs from time to time. One day we were riding from another local town back home when we came up on two scooter riders. One of the lawdowgs thought it cute to play what i would call "Scooter Chicken" ( go as fast and as close to the scooter rider without hitting it.) again this is a lawdowg not just your everyday cycle rider... when we stoped a few miles later i asked him why would he do something as stupid at that. His replay was they really should not be on the road. I was shocked at his replay... That week is when i took my TGB and spent over 500 bucks moding it to where it would do the 55mph. In two weeks we met up to go ride on a nice sunny sping morning,,, Here i come on this loud 50cc scooter to ride with the BigBikes. He asked me what was that. I told him it was what i CHOOSE to ride. The look on his face was priceless... Into the ride even though the bike was not runin yet I opened it up. Hit the 70+ mph mark broke the speedometer cable. When we stopped he walked over and said you should get a tag for that bike... I reminded him it was a scooter, yes its been modded, yes it will do over the 30mph required by the law, yes it should have a tag... I told him give me a ticket dont put my life in your stupid hands as you did the scooters the other week. That was two years ago. We still see each other from time to time... I will not ride with him anymore and he and others i ride with know this and why. No i have not put a tag on the 50cc it has over 24,000 miles I have not been stopped once on it. I drive it like a bat out of hell. Ill see my now exfriend in his patolcar and ill give him the wave and keep on keepin on....

I really cannot to tell you what i do to tailgaters. I hold the 5th.

[bunny]

Plaster big bright yellow daisies all over your scooter and helmet and then put bunny ears on the helmet.

My motto: If you can't see the daisified scooter and the bunny eared rider, you don't need to be driving. Period.

I get the "jaw fall open" look all the time. Especially when they cut in front of me and I casually end up in front of them later...and faster.

Make yourself visible if you feel invisible. Bright, day glo colors are a huge help in this department. If you're wearing all black on a black scooter, heck, *I* might not even see you.

[PeterC]

I have the opposite problem here in this mostly retirement community ... effin' cagers go 25 in a 35 mph zone and won't get out of the way. Gray Buicks, for some reason or other, are the worst in that regard. I usually get over into the golf cart lane and pass them at 50!

[Jrman]

It should also be noted that the speedometers on most scooters are not accurate. They typically are 10-15% on the high side. So if your speedometer reads 45 you may only be going 40 or just under. What I did was to calibrate my speed with a GPS to make sure I know how fast I am really going and adjust mentally for the difference. It is very possible for a scooter to impede traffic because of the inaccurate speedometer readings and you don't even realize it.

[bunny]

[wifiducky]

though i must say that it is true but the feeling you get when someone honks at you saying your slow then you flip them off and pull on the gas shooting off like a rocket is so satisfying XD then again >> maybe thats why people think i drive like a nut HAHAHA

[JHScoot]

in no way will i ever be a scooter apologist. anyone who thinks scooters are slow or nerdy or "cheap" is just ignorant about riding on two wheels

i am 45 years old and don't plan on ever driving a car again, really. not one of my own. a bigger, faster scooter? oh yeah. a car, no. not that i have anything against them. but sitting out in traffic last night in the heart of Old Town Pasadena, well, that is a unique experience i've never really had before. and when people see the Black Jack i ride sometimes, they stare at it, not me. and when i take off on it like a little rocket only to find them pulling up next to me late at the next light i feel like a king on two wheels

most people will never ride a scooter. or a motorcycle for that matter. at least here in the US. so they will never understand. when i told my brother in law i was getting a scooter to go "everywhere" he said "you mean like down Huntington Drive and up Lake Ave?" as if its something a scooter can't do. my neice said "but those only go 30mph!"

oh the humanity. i think scooters are cool, and i keep up with and leave traffic behind on a regular basis. and a lot of people in cars drive SLOW. slower then i ride.

tomorrow i will be taking my scooter to my first trip on it that would be considered a work related destination. and i can't wait!

[kneil67@yahoo.com]

wow i remeber this post

[wifiducky]

[illnoise]

I'm with LuvMyScoot.

I'd bet well over half of all scooterists regularly (either ignorantly or purposefully) break the law, whether it's riding without a license/title/insurance, lane splitting where it's illegal, riding in bike lanes, parking on the sidewalk and at bike racks, or whatever. People notice this and hold it against all scooterists. They EXPECT scooterists to ride irresponsibly. They're angry that they can't get away with what we can.

Then they're jealous (or incredulous) that our $3000 8hp machines can outaccelerate and outmaneuver their $30,000 300hp car. And they're jealous that we look like we're having fun.

And of course, we ARE small and quiet and invisible, and drivers are distracted, always.

You can't really blame the drivers, America was built for them and it's not goint to change. It's up to us to set a good example and ride responsibly, and always be on the defense. "Scooters are Invisible" is exactly right, that's a good state of mind to be in when you're riding, if you assume no one sees you, you're going a long way towards avoiding accidents.

Bryan

[slusher5]

[killbilly]

[cheez37]