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Center stand trim mod

 
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dalvarado
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Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 96
Location: Corona, CA
'07 Italia

PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:41 pm    Post subject: Center stand trim mod Reply with quote

Difficulty: Pretty easy. 1 hour
Tools needed: hack saw, dremel with a grinding tip.

After modding my battery cover for a mo bigga 9-bs battery (see my other post), I decided to do something about my center stand to reduce scraping.

First, my take on the center stand scrape issue:
I really don't want to start another long discussion about why I "don't need to lean so much", to make the buddy corner well(I have a feeling its going to happen anyways Wink . It misses the point. My 07 Italia has stock shocks. I'm around 215 lbs, and ride very conservatively. I took the MSF. I check my tire pressure. I try to practice good technique and avoid leaning too much. Despite this, occasionally on left turns off of highly crowned roads, I still scrape the center stand. All it takes is a little dip or bump in the road. Riding two up makes the situation much worse. Personally, I see the scrape thing as a safety issue, particularly when executing an evasive manuever where a hard lean is warranted. It seems perfectly reasonable to me to want to reduce the scrape hazard and improve the buddy's leaning ability for safety's sake. If you can do this without causing any safety issues, why not? If this makes sense to you, read on.

The goal is to maximize the distance between the street and the stand by 1) Trimming the plastic stand bumper, and 2) Shaping the metal foot at the scrape contact patch area.

All my measurements where made with the scoot on the side stand and the front wheel turned all the way to the left. Nobody sitting on the scoot. With the scoot leaning slightly to the left, this provides a convenient reference for measurement. All measurements are made from lowest part of the stand, the "scrape contact patch" (SCP) on the left foot. Yes, I understand that the slight lean on the side stand is not the same as a real-world lean. That doesn't make it any less valid as a reference.

Stock, my scoot has just 2 3/4 inches from the SCP to the ground. I could only imagine how much less it is with me on it in a real turn, with a moderate lean, with the shocks compressing to absorb a bump. No wonder it scrapes. It won't take much additional clearance to increase the scooters leanability.

Step 1: Trimming the plastic stand bumper

When in the tucked position, the stand rests on a thick plastic bumper. The bumper rests against a metal plate attached to the engine, so the stand actually "tracks" the rear suspension, but not much. The bumper is approximately 5/8" thick. The stand could tuck up significantly higher if the bumper were not as thick, so we're going to cut it down to about 1/4". The bumper slides out of the stand without too much fuss. Here's the before shot:

See pic below.

I used a hacksaw and followed up with my dremel with a sanding tip to get a slightly domed smooth surface with a final thickness of about 3/16". Here a shot after trimming:

See pic below.

Step 2: Shaping the metal foot at the scrape contact patch area

There is a distinct contact patch on the left foot of the stand where I scrape. This part of the foot kind of sticks out a little. I figure I can shave it down to gain clearance voodoo-style (on the street while riding), or I can grind it down in the comfort of my garage. I choose the latter. Here's a before shot:

See pic below.

Using the SCP as a guide, I used a cut-off wheel on my dremel and followed up with a grinder tip and finally a sanding tip to get a nice smooth contour. Ideally, the SCP surface should be shaped such that it is parallel with the street just before contact. It doesn't take much, you could probably do it with a file if you didn't have a power tool. Here's an after shot:

See pic below.


Finally, here's a before and after shot showing the stock and modded stand orientation. The increased clearance is visible. We started with 2 3/4 inches of clearance. After the mods, I measured 3 1/4 inches. That's about a half inch gain - 18% more clearance with nobody on the scoot. A more meaningful measurement could be made with a rider on the scoot in a turn. When you consider the additional clearance from shaping the foot (which really makes a difference near impending scrape), I wouldn't not be surprised if I had 25% more clearance in real world usage. That translates directly into more lean before scraping.

See pics below.

Don't forget to finish with a bit of black rustoleum on the shaped metal. This makes it easy to see where you scrape later on (hopefully not at all). Also, a dab of grease on the bumper where it contacts the metal plate. I'll report back with my observations. I'm not about ready to go out on a knee-dragging run, but I should be able to say if this makes a difference for me after putting some miles in. I'd appreciate any comments from anyone who does this mod, as well.

Stay safe!


Last edited by dalvarado on Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:55 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Kaos
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, thats an interesting idea.

I've thought of removing mine, and likely will when the Pacific NW scooter racing circuit starts up this season, but I hadn't thought of TRIMMING the stand. How much extra clearence does it give? I can lean it pretty hard both ways and have lifted the wheels when catching it on the center stand before on the left, and scraped the pipe on the right. You're not going to get any "don't lean so far" arguments from me Smile

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not going to lie, will be doing this
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dalvarado
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:03 am    Post subject: The test Reply with quote

Ok, I couldn't help myself...

I just got back from a test ride. I figured it was better to test under semi-controlled conditions that to find out on a busy street on my commute. First stop was a empty parking lot. Around and around I went, trying to scrape. Nothing. I went faster and leaned harder. No scraping. I tried another lot, then another. Next I found a few large cul-de-sacs in a industrial part of town. The surface was crowned so I thought these would be a good test. Around and around. Circles, figure 8s, leaning as much as I could. I looked for bumps, dips. No scaping. My final test was returning to the scene of the crime. A left turn where I last remembered scraping a few month back. Luckily there were no cars around on this Sunday afternoon. I ran that turn like four times. Each time faster, leaning harder. I couldn't scrape. Not once. It looked like maybe the street was resurfaced. Hmmm. I tried the hard left on the next street over. Several tries. No scraping.

While I was stopped in a cul-de-sac, I dismounted and carefully leaned the scoot toward the left. I noticed that the transmission actually touches the ground *before* the stand does now.

After a stop and a few pics at West Coast Customs (I knew it was around here somewhere!), I went home. I was out for maybe an hour or so. I tried my best. No scrapes.

I can't imagine leaning much more that I did today in day to day riding. Heck, I lost one of my MB buttons during the test. Probably from the insane G-forces Wink As far as I'm concerned the scrape issue is not improved. Its eliminated. Now, its time for better tires. Those Prima whitewalls look pretty nice.
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Kaos
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:01 am    Post subject: Re: The test Reply with quote

dalvarado wrote:
Ok, I couldn't help myself...

I just got back from a test ride. I figured it was better to test under semi-controlled conditions that to find out on a busy street on my commute. First stop was a empty parking lot. Around and around I went, trying to scrape. Nothing. I went faster and leaned harder. No scraping. I tried another lot, then another. Next I found a few large cul-de-sacs in a industrial part of town. The surface was crowned so I thought these would be a good test. Around and around. Circles, figure 8s, leaning as much as I could. I looked for bumps, dips. No scaping. My final test was returning to the scene of the crime. A left turn where I last remembered scraping a few month back. Luckily there were no cars around on this Sunday afternoon. I ran that turn like four times. Each time faster, leaning harder. I couldn't scrape. Not once. It looked like maybe the street was resurfaced. Hmmm. I tried the hard left on the next street over. Several tries. No scraping.

While I was stopped in a cul-de-sac, I dismounted and carefully leaned the scoot toward the left. I noticed that the transmission actually touches the ground *before* the stand does now.

After a stop and a few pics at West Coast Customs (I knew it was around here somewhere!), I went home. I was out for maybe an hour or so. I tried my best. No scrapes.

I can't imagine leaning much more that I did today in day to day riding. Heck, I lost one of my MB buttons during the test. Probably from the insane G-forces Wink As far as I'm concerned the scrape issue is not improved. Its eliminated. Now, its time for better tires. Those Prima whitewalls look pretty nice.


Man that sounds a lot like a challenge Razz And a mod I'm gonna have to do!

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Skootz Kabootz
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a great mod. And a really well put together tutorial too. Nice job!
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dalvarado,

I know of at least 1 MP3'r over at Modern Vespa who could use some help with centerstand issues.If you get a chance ckeck out his story on crashing cause of the centerstand.Heads together can go far....


http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/topic60725

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dalvarado
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BuddyLicious wrote:
Dalvarado,

I know of at least 1 MP3'r over at Modern Vespa who could use some help with centerstand issues.If you get a chance ckeck out his story on crashing cause of the centerstand.Heads together can go far....


http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/topic60725


Thanks for the link. That was a good read.

The concept of the scraping stand as a early warning "feature" is interesting. Too bad it's poorly implemented on the buddy. A warning device should not cause the "bad thing" that it's warning about! It's kinda like the overrev buzzer in my car. What if the buzzer could potentially cause the engine to blow up? Kinda defeats the purpose. A crash is the worst possible result. At least a hinged footpeg or floorboard on a motorcycle "gives" to not cause a hazard while still being an effective warning device. The plastic center stand bumper doesn't give, as evidenced by a slight bending of the plate it rests against. Also, I can imagine a skid plate on the bottom of a motorcycle floorboard. The shape of the contact patch on the buddy's stand foot seems more prone to grabbing the asphalt than skidding over it.

Possible design improvements off the top of my head:
* A springy bumper that gives when you scrape
* A small flat "skid pad" surface on the foot that scrapes
* A small curb-feeler-like appendage on the stand (think about the curb feeler on your parent's/grand-parent's old car. Retro-pimp!).
* Rear shocks with adjustable ride height(might get these eventually, anyways)

I'm convinced that my mod is definitely a step in the right direction for me, safety-wise. I trust my own judgement more than a poorly implemented non-adjustable psuedo-feature that can send me to the ground on a routine ride. Again, all this, IMHO, YMMV, see your doctor if you experience an _______ that lasts more than four hours, etc.

David
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great write up!

I've seen someone crash a Buddy (BlackJack, too) by hitting the stand. I think every Buddy rider has at least scraped it.

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Kaos
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ericalm wrote:
Great write up!

I've seen someone crash a Buddy (BlackJack, too) by hitting the stand. I think every Buddy rider has at least scraped it.


I very nearly tookmyself out on it once. Caught it hard enough to pick up both wheels and pivot on the stand. I kept it up by a miracle, and scared myself pretty badly.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

very cool dig the concept
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GrantSR
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:05 am    Post subject: The pictures are dead now. Reply with quote

Any chance we could get an update on this original post?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may be able to get the original pics from Dalvarado and add them.
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dalvarado
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm. I guess I deleted the images from the server. I'll see if i can dig them up and re-upload them tonight after work.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dalvarado wrote:
Hmmm. I guess I deleted the images from the server. I'll see if i can dig them up and re-upload them tonight after work.

If you want to email them to me, I can upload them to MB so you don't have to host them anywhere.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know this isn't the best thread for this, but while we are discussing missing pictures: In my perusing of the site I found many posts with broken image links. Not all of them, mind you, so I know it is not something wrong with my browser. Just a lot of them.

In addition, there are a lot of posts that I can't get to at all. Instead I get the following error message:

Quote:
General Error

Could not get Attachment Informations for post number 261784

DEBUG MODE

SQL Error : 1034 Incorrect key file for table 'phpbb_attachments_desc'; try to repair it

SELECT a.post_id, d.* FROM phpbb_attachments a, phpbb_attachments_desc d WHERE a.post_id IN (261784) AND a.attach_id = d.attach_id ORDER BY d.filetime ASC

Line : 543
File : functions_attach.php


Is something more serious afoot than just a few missing image files?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Save your time and just remove the metal stop on the gearcase cove. Takes 2 minutes with the same result.

I felt dumb when I figured it out Laughing

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrantSR wrote:
Is something more serious afoot than just a few missing image files?

Yup. Technical difficulties. We're working on it!

http://www.modernbuddy.com/forum/topic20635.html

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dalvarado wrote:
Hmmm. I guess I deleted the images from the server. I'll see if i can dig them up and re-upload them tonight after work.

All done re-uploading the pics Very Happy

BTW, Still zero issues with the mod. I lean as much as I like and don't scrape at all. Not even once. Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dalvarado wrote:
All done re-uploading the pics Very Happy


Thanks. the instructions are now instantly understandable. Trying to read a description that relies on pictures, but without the pictures, is pretty difficult. Thanks for going to all that trouble.

dalvarado wrote:
BTW, Still zero issues with the mod. I lean as much as I like and don't scrape at all. Not even once. Smile


So, can you give me some idea of just how far over you lean on your scooter. I thought I was leaning into it pretty good some of the times but I certainly don't want to have the wheels come out from under me. I put a lot of work into my windscreen and I would hate to have that ruined. I guess you do what you are comfortable with, though I would like to know what is a safe range so I can be sure to stay within it (with or without the mod) while still having fun.

My other question is how much centripetal force can a Buddy take before the tires loose traction? I know stickier tires hold better but also wear down faster. As I don't intend to race I go for the more durable, but less sticky tires. (I have a pair of continentals on order.) Given that, any idea how fast and how low you could reasonably expect to go around a corner before you and your scooter become a hockey puck?

Have you got any pictures or video of you taking these turns? (Just don't go out and push your luck just to get pictures. I would feel terrible if something happened.)
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dalvarado
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrantSR wrote:
...So, can you give me some idea of just how far over you lean on your scooter. I thought I was leaning into it pretty good some of the times but I certainly don't want to have the wheels come out from under me. I put a lot of work into my windscreen and I would hate to have that ruined. I guess you do what you are comfortable with, though I would like to know what is a safe range so I can be sure to stay within it (with or without the mod) while still having fun.

My other question is how much centripetal force can a Buddy take before the tires loose traction? I know stickier tires hold better but also wear down faster. As I don't intend to race I go for the more durable, but less sticky tires. (I have a pair of continentals on order.) Given that, any idea how fast and how low you could reasonably expect to go around a corner before you and your scooter become a hockey puck?

Have you got any pictures or video of you taking these turns? (Just don't go out and push your luck just to get pictures. I would feel terrible if something happened.)

Hi, GrantSR. Not sure how to respond to this except to say that it's up to you to decide what is ok as far as leaning goes. I'm think I'm an average rider. I'm riding with the stock tires and suspension. No engine mods or anything like that. I ride pretty conservatively. Maybe some of the voodoo types can chime in?
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dalvarado wrote:
Not sure how to respond to this except to say that it's up to you to decide what is ok as far as leaning goes.


I guess I'm just curious about exactly how far over it is safe to lean a Buddy when going around a corner. Do you lean, like, 45 degrees over? Or more like 30 degrees (from vertical). If it is possible to safely lean over even farther than the stock position of the center stand will allow, and the center stand was the only thing standing between you leaning over closer to that maximum safe limit (as it appears from the content of this thread), then how far over would one consider truly safe.

Remember, "safe" is a matter of empirical numbers. "Comfortable" is a matter of how close to that empirically safe limit one is willing to get. I'm one of those - perhaps overly - rational people who decides what I am "comfortable" with based on what has been shown to be "empirically safe." I want to know the maximum lean that others have found to be empirically safe so that I can then determine how close to that I feel comfortable with. Right now, I get uncomfortable leaning very much at all because I have no idea just how far over I can lean before the kickstand hits the ground. I don't like to be guessing as I am going around the corner.

I appreciate any feedback anyone can give me. I want to be able to "tear into it" but without risking loosing a lot of skin and all the work I did on my windscreen.

Thanks
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd seriously like to do this as well. Problem is, I have to track down a friend with a dremel and the proper bits...

Dalvarado, you're genius.
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dalvarado
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:31 am    Post subject: Pics updated again Reply with quote

Updated image links. The old server went away *years* ago.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:58 am    Post subject: Re: Pics updated again Reply with quote

dalvarado wrote:
Updated image links. The old server went away *years* ago.

Nice! Thank you!

Are you still riding your (the same) Buddy?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice mod. I removed the centerstand from my Blur because it kept lifting the rear wheel off the ground when making left turns. I got tired of constantly changing my underwear...
I'll have to try this out to see if I can make use of my centerstand again. Thanks.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:56 pm    Post subject: Uploaded pics as attachements Reply with quote

Pics uploaded to original post. Peace.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GTM / GuzziTech Motocycles (todd@guzzitech.com)
Center stand mod - center stand with removable kick-arm.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christophers wrote:
GTM / GuzziTech Motocycles (todd@guzzitech.com)
Center stand mod - center stand with removable kick-arm.


By doing these types of modifications to eliminate or reduce scraping on the underside of a scooter or motorcycle, it tells me that riders who have to do this are exceeding the design limitations of their rides, i.e. they're going too fast when turning. I'm 84 y.o. and I've probably been riding for more years than most of you on this forum have been alive. I didn't get this far by going too fast when turning. Please be sensible everyone and enjoy a long and happy life. Happy Holidays!

Bill in Seattle
'12 170i Buddy Oxford Green
'14 170i Hooligan Matte Green
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skipper20 wrote:
Christophers wrote:
GTM / GuzziTech Motocycles (todd@guzzitech.com)
Center stand mod - center stand with removable kick-arm.


By doing these types of modifications to eliminate or reduce scraping on the underside of a scooter or motorcycle, it tells me that riders who have to do this are exceeding the design limitations of their rides, i.e. they're going too fast when turning... I've probably been riding for more years than most of you on this forum have been alive... Please be sensible


Thanks! Happy Holidays to you as well!

I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment. The Buddy scooters are actually quite capable little platforms. One or two pieces that drag prematurely does not make them incapable vehicles. They are small displacement scooters with 10" wheels, but nevertheless the handle exceptionally well.

The center stand issue is not an issue that "tells [one] that riders who have to do this are exceeding the design limitations of their rides." Given the prevalence and the number of people that have experienced dragging the center stand, this more likely tells one that there is a design issue with the center stand. Otherwise you are positing that a large majority of those who ride a Buddy are "exceeding the design limitations of their rides" and you are implying, on top of that, that these same persons are not "sensible".

Just to name those who have either experienced this issue or were enthusiastic to read the posts in this thread that addressed this issue:
dalvarado
Kaos
ScooterTrash
Skootz Kabootz
BuddyLicious
ericalm
kneil67
GrantSR
LunaP
babblefish

I would not, by any means, say that each of these individuals "exceed[s] the design limitations of their rides" nor would I imply that they are not sensible riders.

From my perspective, I refer to a post that I made in another thread:

Christophers wrote:
When did I join this forum?
Looks like back in 2010.
Well, even back then, on my first Buddy 125, I encountered the center stand design flaw - having the back wheel bounce up and almost cause a wreck in the middle of a turn because of hitting the center stand kick arm on the ground. Hopefully I have a solution forthcoming.


And I would also refer to the opening post of this thread:

dalvarado wrote:
First, my take on the center stand scrape issue:
I really don't want to start another long discussion about why I "don't need to lean so much", to make the buddy corner well(I have a feeling its going to happen anyways Wink . It misses the point. My 07 Italia has stock shocks. I'm around 215 lbs, and ride very conservatively. I took the MSF. I check my tire pressure. I try to practice good technique and avoid leaning too much. Despite this, occasionally on left turns off of highly crowned roads, I still scrape the center stand. All it takes is a little dip or bump in the road...

It seems perfectly reasonable to me to want to reduce the scrape hazard and improve the buddy's leaning ability for safety's sake...


Stock, my scoot has just 2 3/4 inches from the SCP to the ground. I could only imagine how much less it is with me on it in a real turn, with a moderate lean, with the shocks compressing to absorb a bump. No wonder it scrapes. It won't take much additional clearance to increase the scooters leanability...

Stay safe!


My contribution to this thread simply shares another approach to this issue which, although slightly more involved than either of the two other approaches, I feel does a better job of addressing the issue

I don't think that someone being proactive about addressing a design issue that is a safety concern is not 'sensible' - nor do I think sharing that solution with the forum is not 'sensible'.

You have a lot of experience, so I know that you would agree that not all parts that come on a given motorcycle or scooter offer the same amount of ground clearance. The same can be said of aftermarket parts. Changing parts that offer poor ground clearance for parts that offer better clearance, in my opinion, is a very sensible thing to do, and when those parts aren't available, solutions like the ones posted here are often the best approach.

Like you, safety is the top priority for me. Any part that drags prematurely on a bike is a potential safety issue, and one can drag low clearance parts with even the most modest maneuvers. In fact, slower turns almost uniformly exacerbate these issue because these turns are the ones that often require sharper lean angles.

And finally I'll add one more point. A solution like the one that I shared would never be offered as a stock component. People would lose the removable kick arm left and right and would complain endlessly about it on the forums to the detriment of the reputation of the scooters. And, since it's just not seemingly possible to get the scooter up on the center stand without the kick arm (at least I have never succeeded in doing so - otherwise I would have just cut the arm off long ago), the approach that I shared here seems to be a pretty good solution. The kick arm even fits in the Gen-U-Bin dash pocket! Smile

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Clydeo
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Joined: 21 Apr 2015
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Location: Harrisburg PA
Buddy 50. Suzuki TU250. Ninja 250

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:10 pm    Post subject: Center stand issue is Reply with quote

Thanks for your suggested modification. To be honest, I have never scraped mine before, but I can see how easily it might happen. I suspect that the stand mechanism was not designed with 200 + pound North Americans in mind!
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skipper20
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Joined: 10 Dec 2012
Posts: 774
Location: Des Moines, WA
170i

PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christophers wrote:
skipper20 wrote:
Christophers wrote:
GTM / GuzziTech Motocycles (todd@guzzitech.com)
Center stand mod - center stand with removable kick-arm.


By doing these types of modifications to eliminate or reduce scraping on the underside of a scooter or motorcycle, it tells me that riders who have to do this are exceeding the design limitations of their rides, i.e. they're going too fast when turning... I've probably been riding for more years than most of you on this forum have been alive... Please be sensible


Thanks! Happy Holidays to you as well!

I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment. The Buddy scooters are actually quite capable little platforms. One or two pieces that drag prematurely does not make them incapable vehicles. They are small displacement scooters with 10" wheels, but nevertheless the handle exceptionally well.

The center stand issue is not an issue that "tells [one] that riders who have to do this are exceeding the design limitations of their rides." Given the prevalence and the number of people that have experienced dragging the center stand, this more likely tells one that there is a design issue with the center stand. Otherwise you are positing that a large majority of those who ride a Buddy are "exceeding the design limitations of their rides" and you are implying, on top of that, that these same persons are not "sensible".

Just to name those who have either experienced this issue or were enthusiastic to read the posts in this thread that addressed this issue:
dalvarado
Kaos
ScooterTrash
Skootz Kabootz
BuddyLicious
ericalm
kneil67
GrantSR
LunaP
babblefish

I would not, by any means, say that each of these individuals "exceed[s] the design limitations of their rides" nor would I imply that they are not sensible riders.


OK, it must be the age gap. From my perspective, it's not a design issue. It's a usage issue. I just came in from my garage where I had to lean my Buddy 170i about 45 degrees on its left side to get the center stand kick arm to touch the garage floor. Same with the right side. About 45 degrees before the center stand right side arm touched the floor. 45 degrees! Maybe for you young guys but not for me. With the exception of racing a scooter on an oval track with a racing pro in the saddle, 45 degrees is just plain crazy. I'm sorry to offend you all but in the interest of personal safety I've got to call it like it is. If the bottom of your scooter is scraping the ground when you lean into a turn, it's you and not the scooter's design that's causing that. Have a safe and Happy Holiday season. Thanks!

Bill in Seattle
'12 Buddy 170i Oxford Green
'14 Hooligan 170i Matte Green
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Christophers
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Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Posts: 549
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Psycho

PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skipper20 wrote:
From my perspective, it's not a design issue... It's a usage issue.I've got to call it like it is. If the bottom of your scooter is scraping the ground when you lean into a turn, it's you and not the scooter's design that's causing that.


Totally fair to share your perspective. Thank you!

I won't add anything to it, but I will offer a counter perspective from the OP, rather well presented in the first post in the thread, that I happen to share:

dalvarado wrote:
First, my take on the center stand scrape issue:
I really don't want to start another long discussion about why I "don't need to lean so much", to make the buddy corner well(I have a feeling its going to happen anyways ;) . It misses the point... All it takes is a little dip or bump in the road... It seems perfectly reasonable to me to want to reduce the scrape hazard and improve the buddy's leaning ability for safety's sake.

and...
dalvarado wrote:
Stock, my scoot has just 2 3/4 inches from the SCP ["scrape contact patch"] to the ground. I could only imagine how much less it is with me on it in a real turn, with a moderate lean, with the shocks compressing to absorb a bump. No wonder it scrapes...
A more meaningful measurement could be made with a rider on the scoot in a turn...


dalvarado wrote:
Stay safe!


Cheers! Happy Holidays all!!

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scootERIK
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Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 284
Location: Lake Geneva, WI
Buddy 125

PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skipper20 wrote:
OK, it must be the age gap. From my perspective, it's not a design issue. It's a usage issue. I just came in from my garage where I had to lean my Buddy 170i about 45 degrees on its left side to get the center stand kick arm to touch the garage floor. Same with the right side. About 45 degrees before the center stand right side arm touched the floor. 45 degrees! Maybe for you young guys but not for me. With the exception of racing a scooter on an oval track with a racing pro in the saddle, 45 degrees is just plain crazy. I'm sorry to offend you all but in the interest of personal safety I've got to call it like it is. If the bottom of your scooter is scraping the ground when you lean into a turn, it's you and not the scooter's design that's causing that. Have a safe and Happy Holiday season. Thanks!

Bill in Seattle
'12 Buddy 170i Oxford Green
'14 Hooligan 170i Matte Green


With your weight on the scooter the lean angle is less. If you have a tight corner and the road is in good shape it is pretty easy to drag when turning left. I go out and intentionally drag my centerstand ever so often so I have a "feel" for how much I can lean before hitting it.

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GregsBuddy
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Joined: 11 Jan 2015
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Location: North SF Bay
Buddy 170i Vespa GTS 250ie Piaggio BV350

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I measured the lean angles of my 170i with no one on it. It has an aftermarket YSS shock FWIW.
Left lean was 40 degrees when the centerstand touched down.
Right lean was 45 degrees when the cooling air intake touched down.
With a rider on board the maximum angle will be reduced, of course. I suspect that the running lean angle is quite a bit less than what I measured with no rider weight. The photo above is nowhere near 45 degrees.
I'm going to modify my centerstand bumper as noted above as it seems a great safety measure. It's very frightening to touch down in a corner. I've never touched down on the Buddy but I have on the BV350 and the experience was not pleasant.

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Christophers
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Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Posts: 549
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Psycho

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregsBuddy wrote:
I'm going to modify my centerstand bumper as noted above as it seems a great safety measure.

Don't miss ScooterTrash's post about an alternative to the bumper mod:
ScooterTrash wrote:
Save your time and just remove the metal stop on the gearcase cove. Takes 2 minutes with the same result.

I felt dumb when I figured it out Laughing

It's a lot quicker!! And entirely reversible.

If you're interested in full center stand mod, email Todd. ( todd@guzzitech.com )

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GregsBuddy
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Location: North SF Bay
Buddy 170i Vespa GTS 250ie Piaggio BV350

PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm concerned that the bumper will wear through the aluminum belt cover as the centerstand bumper rubs against it. I've seen heavy wear on a Kymco where the centerstand bumper rubbed directly against the belt cover like this.
BTW, the bumper rubbing against the stop is a source of squeaking that many people find hard to locate. Grease eliminates the squeak but creates a messy spot where dust and dirt accumulates.

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dan v.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had this issue on a high crowned road when turning left. Remembering this post, I had a look-see at my stand when the scoot was up on the service lift.

Ham-fistedly I tore the bumper off trying to remove it - then I see it removes from the side.....Will need new one.

Off to the hardware store to see what I can find. Luckily, Hillman makes a grommet/plug that fits the bill. Looks like the ground down/modified stock one in the pic at the beginning of this thread. Cost was about $1.20.

Found it at Ace, but also at Lowes. Hillman parts are in the cabinets with all the misc. - fiddly parts one may need. Your hardware guy will know.
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