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gt1000 Member
 Joined: 29 Sep 2006 Posts: 1053 Location: Denver Buddy 125, Vespa 250 GTS
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:08 pm Post subject: Scooter collision (Iowa St. football player riding) |
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It was all over the news last night, but in case you missed it, a police dashboard camera recorded the classic left turn into a scooter head-on collision. The scooter rider is apparently an offensive lineman and big but still very lucky to walk away considering he was wearing no protective gear at all. Amazingly, he didn't land on his head.
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81085706/ _________________ Andy
2006 Buddy 125 (orange)
2009 Vespa 250 GTS (black)
2012 Triumph Tiger 800 (black)
2008 Ducati Hypermotard S, traded for Tiger 800
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ed85379 Member
 Joined: 15 Apr 2010 Posts: 303 Location: Boston Buddy Blackjack 150
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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An old guy driving the truck, not paying attention to oncoming traffic.
A scooter rider not paying that much attention and assuming that others are giving him his right of way. He didn't even slow down when the truck started turning. Looked like he was day-dreaming.
From the body language of the truck driver, I'd say he is going to be a hell of a lot more careful from now on. He looked fairly traumatized and upset, and a little lost. _________________
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heyitsomid Member
 Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 88 Location: Currently: LA Formerly of Berkeley, CA Buddy Black Jack and formerly '65 Honda Cub
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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His shoe went 40-50 ft in the air!
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okcgravity Member
Joined: 14 Jun 2010 Posts: 14
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Not to defend the truck driver too much but...
If you look at the shadows on the ground it looks as though the truck was looking right into a low setting sun. With the scooter driver wearing a light colored hoodie I am not suprised at all that he was tough to see. I have had moments with a low sun where I have found myself going holy crap for a second or two when i could see nothing.
Glad the guy is ok, hope the story helps others to pay attention more but with the sun being where it is I am not suprised. There have been countless car to car wrecks that a low sun has caused. May explain a little bit of the truck drivers shell shock as well. See someone show up out of a glare 5 feet from your hood.
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Skootz Kabootz Member
 Joined: 15 Nov 2008 Posts: 3596 Location: West Hollywood, CA '08 St. Tropez
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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They crash victim appeared ok moments after the crash while still in shock. Let's see how he is doing in 3 or 4 days. That's when you'll better know the full extent of his injuries. _________________ "It's only fun if you live to talk about it."
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BootScootin'FireFighter Member
 Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 1601 Location: (Metro DC) Alexandria, Virginia Black 2009 Buddy 125 "The Mothership"
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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the most dangerous time of the evening drive, directly towards or away from the sun. Towards, obviously not only are you squinting and visually impaired, but the car behind you is as well when your the only one sitting at a red light. Away from, oncoming traffic is visually impaired as you saw here, or you have a blinding glare in your mirror. I'm not sure why it's not that bad in the morning ride, but the evening always feels much brighter, maybe it's because I'm more fatigued by then. If I have to be out for that short 30-45 minute time span, I pick less crowded streets with a lot of trees or buildings. Fortunately Northern Virginia is packed with both. I feel bad for you Arizona and Midwest riders. _________________
Coming to a First-Due near you.
DC Area Meetup.com Group
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TVB Member
 Joined: 21 Feb 2009 Posts: 3074 Location: Grand Rapids MI 1999 Trek 7300; 2009 Buddy 50
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| okcgravity wrote: | Not to defend the truck driver too much but...
If you look at the shadows on the ground it looks as though the truck was looking right into a low setting sun. | Yeah, the truck driver was at fault, but given the lighting I'd be inclined to file it under "be more careful in situations like this!" rather than "WTF you incompetent moron! WTF!!".
This sort of thing happens the most around the two equinoxes (March 21ish and September 21ish) every year. That's when the setting/rising sun lines up directly with east-west streets, blinding everyone who's going the wrong way (and partially-blinding people going the other way with rear-view mirrors). So it's getting to be that time of year. _________________
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illnoise Moderator
 Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 3317 Location: Chicago, IL Blur 150, various vintage Vespas
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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That's why it's awesome to live in Chicago. by nature of Lake Michigan to the east, everyone lives west of downtown, so every morning you drive right into the sunrise, and every night you drive right into the sunset. I have to wear two pairs of sunglasses some days. Add the strobe effect of riding under the CTA tracks on Lake Street, and insane drivers, and taking the bus to work starts to look pretty good. _________________ 2strokebuzz: When news breaks, we put it under a tarp in the garage.
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Stormswift Member
 Joined: 07 Nov 2009 Posts: 852 Location: Maryland Prozac 150 cc/aka Buddy Itallia
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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I think every 3 and 4 way intersection should have turn lane and left turn traffic light. There should be no left turn on green on those intersections unless it is green arrow for left turn and everyone else has stopped. I guarantee there would be no accidents like that unless someone jumps red light. "Proceed with caution" does not work well when visibility is impaired
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Scoot Member
Joined: 19 Aug 2008 Posts: 14 Location: Texas St. Tropez, Buddy 125
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:51 pm Post subject: Scooter Collision |
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It seems to me that the scooter rider needs to do everything reasonably possible to make the rider visible. This man didn't want to injure the scooter rider, I suspect he just did not SEE him.
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pdxrita Member
 Joined: 04 Jul 2009 Posts: 430 Location: Portland, OR Buddy 150 Italia
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| illnoise wrote: | | That's why it's awesome to live in Chicago. by nature of Lake Michigan to the east, everyone lives west of downtown, so every morning you drive right into the sunrise, and every night you drive right into the sunset. I have to wear two pairs of sunglasses some days. Add the strobe effect of riding under the CTA tracks on Lake Street, and insane drivers, and taking the bus to work starts to look pretty good. |
I have the same situation. I head east in the morning and west in the afternoon, so when the sun is at that angle, I'm the one heading into it. I've always thought it was better for me to be the one being blinded by the sun than the oncoming traffic. I feel like it gives me more control over the dangerous riding condition. I have a helmet with a drop down sun visor. It's not very dark on it's own, but I sometimes drop it down over a pair of glasses when I'm facing into bright sun and it helps quite a lot, both with the brightness and the heat (surprisingly). It's nice to be able to deploy and retract it when needed. _________________
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Quo Vadimus Member
 Joined: 20 Mar 2008 Posts: 622 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Sunset Buddy 50, Kymco Super 8 150
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:04 am Post subject: |
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If I can't see the road ahead of me, I slow down...
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ASUDeadhead Member
 Joined: 16 Aug 2010 Posts: 44 Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA 2009 Buddy 125
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| pdxrita wrote: | | I have a helmet with a drop down sun visor. It's not very dark on it's own, but I sometimes drop it down over a pair of glasses when I'm facing into bright sun and it helps quite a lot, both with the brightness and the heat (surprisingly). It's nice to be able to deploy and retract it when needed. |
+1 _________________
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Jackie F Member
 Joined: 19 May 2007 Posts: 265 Location: Seattle 2007 Red Buddy 125 (Member of RBC), 2009 Piaggio MP3 250, 2007 Vespa GTS 250
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:44 am Post subject: |
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WOW!
I too saw the flying flip flop. The old guy was in shock. I hoped the paramedics checked him out too.
Props to the scooterist and motorcyclist for keeping their cool. A friend of mine got hit while riding his scooter by an older woman. Another friend who was riding with him verbally berated the driver after the accident which does not help at all.
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agrogod Member
 Joined: 19 Jul 2010 Posts: 329 Location: PA. Genuine Roughhouse 50
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:38 am Post subject: |
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You all might want to take a real close look at that video again. Did you take notice, the way the truck is lined up after the hit, looks like he was trying to cut the turn short. Which means he would have been crossing the line into the turn lane of his direction of travel. He saw the scooter, tried to cut the turn, and made a serious misjudgment of the speed of the scooter. Short cutting turns happens around my area all the time, its illegal and if I had a dime for everytime I saw one..... . Of course it does make me wonder if the scooter had not been where it was would the motorcycle have been the victim?
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JHScoot Member
 Joined: 13 Jul 2010 Posts: 1096 Location: L.A. Kymco Agility 125/Part time Black Jack
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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i feel bad.....for the scooter
wonder what kind it was?
rip :'(
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jasondavis48108 Member
 Joined: 24 Apr 2009 Posts: 2850 Location: Ann Arbor 2008 Buddy Little Italia, 2010 Honda sh150i
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Quo Vadimus wrote: | | If I can't see the road ahead of me, I slow down... |
+1 _________________ "Only the curious have, if they live, a tale worth telling at all" Alastair Reid
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KABarash Member
 Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 1380 Location: Depends on where I happen to be. '04 Honda Met (Archie) '08 St. Tropez ('Simon')
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Scooter collision (Iowa St. football player riding) |
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| gt1000 wrote: | The scooter rider is apparently an offensive lineman and big but still very lucky to walk away considering he was wearing no protective gear at all. Amazingly, he didn't land on his head.
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Take a closer look, I saw him being placed into the Ambo ALL strapped down to the gurney.
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jrsjr Moderator Emeritus
 Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 2151 Location: North Chesterfield, VA Nazgul
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: Scooter collision (Iowa St. football player riding) |
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| KABarash wrote: | | gt1000 wrote: | The scooter rider is apparently an offensive lineman and big but still very lucky to walk away considering he was wearing no protective gear at all. Amazingly, he didn't land on his head.
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Take a closer look, I saw him being placed into the Ambo ALL strapped down to the gurney. |
That was just a precaution. Here's a follow-up from DigitalJournal.com
| DigitalJournal.com wrote: | Hawkeyes coach Kirk Ferentz told Quad City Times he doesn't think Koeppel will be up to playing tomorrow's opening season game against Eastern Illinois.
Ferentz said: "The most important thing is he's healthy and ready to go and that's a big thing. Could have been a lot worse, certainly."
The coach has been against his players riding mopeds and scooters ever since he became Iowa's football coach.
He said: "I've been worried about this for 11 years ... on a couple of fronts. Number one, very few of them wear helmets, and the other thing is they're just not very protected."
Ferentz went on to say he understood why the guys rode the little vehicles. "Anybody who has worked on campus knows it's a nightmare to park. All we can do is encourage them to be careful and wear a helmet, and we haven't been very successful in that regard."
Guard Julian Vandervelde said almost all of the players own a moped or scooter to get around on.
"We're still poor college students," Vandervelde said. "It's like two bucks a week for gas, and you can get anywhere you need to go in 5 minutes. It's very convenient."
When he heard what happened to Koeppel, he rushed to the hospital to see his friend, but he had already been released to go home.
Vandervelde said: "Typical Koeppel. He was already out of the hospital. ‘Oh, I got hit by a truck. I've just got a few scratches and things.' He was up and about doing the Josh Koeppel thing. The guy is tougher than heck." |
Amen. _________________ “You live your life prospectively and tell your story retrospectively, so it looks like everything is converging.”
-Dr. Eric Lander
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BootScootin'FireFighter Member
 Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 1601 Location: (Metro DC) Alexandria, Virginia Black 2009 Buddy 125 "The Mothership"
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: Scooter collision (Iowa St. football player riding) |
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| KABarash wrote: | | gt1000 wrote: | The scooter rider is apparently an offensive lineman and big but still very lucky to walk away considering he was wearing no protective gear at all. Amazingly, he didn't land on his head.
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Take a closer look, I saw him being placed into the Ambo ALL strapped down to the gurney. |
That's standard protocol based on the mechanism of injury. Even though he walks around dazed, he could still have major trauma going on inside. He went from what looked like at least 35-40mph to a dead stop and smashed his torso against the handlebars and got thrown onto the hood. What always impresses me is how far away or high their shoes go. It could be military grade high-top tactical boots all laced up, they're still coming off. The human body is very resilient. We had a guy hit a utility pole in his car, was walking, talking, nearly refusing to go to the hospital, the whole nine. Finally the medics convince him to go as a precaution, he ends up with a ruptured spleen and nearly bleeds out internally. _________________
Coming to a First-Due near you.
DC Area Meetup.com Group
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Jackie F Member
 Joined: 19 May 2007 Posts: 265 Location: Seattle 2007 Red Buddy 125 (Member of RBC), 2009 Piaggio MP3 250, 2007 Vespa GTS 250
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:06 am Post subject: |
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Tocsik Member
 Joined: 02 Jun 2008 Posts: 960 Location: Denver '08 Pamplona : : : RIP: '75 Yamaha RD200 : '77 Yamaha XS400
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:41 am Post subject: |
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I know. I almost kicked in the TV screen.
Bad thing though; my wife was watching the Today show right then. She really winced hard at the video
She's already pretty nervous with me on the scooter but both the scooter rider and the truck driver were at fault IMHO.
Driver either didn't see the scooter or tried to cut him off and the scooter rider wasn't practicing good MC defense (which we need b/c of our amazing Ninja-like powers of invisibility to most drivers).
Be safe out there my friends. _________________ .::Scoot Happens!::.
ATGATTAWOTATT
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kivrot Member
Joined: 19 May 2010 Posts: 28 Location: Denver, CO
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:26 am Post subject: |
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Oh and more importantly, he's a Univ. of Iowa player, not Iowa St.
Go Hawks!
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Quo Vadimus Member
 Joined: 20 Mar 2008 Posts: 622 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Sunset Buddy 50, Kymco Super 8 150
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Tocsik wrote: | both the scooter rider and the truck driver were at fault IMHO.
Driver either didn't see the scooter or tried to cut him off and the scooter rider wasn't practicing good MC defense (which we need b/c of our amazing Ninja-like powers of invisibility to most drivers).
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Unless he was speeding, running the end of a yellow/beginning of a red, etc., it'd be great if we could not perpetuate this belief that the two-wheeled vehicle is always at fault, even for traveling in a straight line when it has the right-of-way. Could he have helped to avoid the situation? Sure. Is he at fault? Nothing in the video suggests so. Maybe your definition of 'fault' isn't a legal one, but one that sort of ethically includes "did this person do everything possible to avoid an accident," in which case yes, the scooter rider shares in the 'fault,' but the number and severity of things the truck driver did outside of that definition is astronomical compared to the scooterist.
Again, most traffic laws that I've been in contact with include language which requires you to be under complete control of your vehicle at all times, no matter the prevailing weather or environmental factors. If you can't see as far ahead of you as normal (sun, blizzard), you slow down until you are traveling at a speed at which you can appropriately react to the road as you see it. If you can't see at all, you STOP. Whether or not we even know the sun was in the driver's eyes, citing it would not be an excuse, it would be an admission of guilt.
I also wish we could change the way we assign responsibility in these situations (as a country). There's a tendency to say "he was on a moto/bicycle/walking, he should've known that he was more vulnerable and been more careful than everyone else." It's a symptom of our fatalistic view about accidents. Okay, no, it's a symptom of our pragmatism, and non-riders' fatalistic views. I wonder why people almost never say "he was driving a vehicle that makes everyone and everything else incredibly vulnerable. He should have known how much death and destruction he was capable of and been more careful than everyone else."
If we go hunting, and you take your slingshot and I take my M249, who's the bigger jerk for spinning in circles and firing off rounds randomly?
/rant[/i]
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Tocsik Member
 Joined: 02 Jun 2008 Posts: 960 Location: Denver '08 Pamplona : : : RIP: '75 Yamaha RD200 : '77 Yamaha XS400
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quo Vadimus wrote: | | Tocsik wrote: | both the scooter rider and the truck driver were at fault IMHO.
Driver either didn't see the scooter or tried to cut him off and the scooter rider wasn't practicing good MC defense (which we need b/c of our amazing Ninja-like powers of invisibility to most drivers).
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Unless he was speeding, running the end of a yellow/beginning of a red, etc., it'd be great if we could not perpetuate this belief that the two-wheeled vehicle is always at fault, even for traveling in a straight line when it has the right-of-way. Could he have helped to avoid the situation? Sure. Is he at fault? Nothing in the video suggests so. Maybe your definition of 'fault' isn't a legal one, but one that sort of ethically includes "did this person do everything possible to avoid an accident," in which case yes, the scooter rider shares in the 'fault,' but the number and severity of things the truck driver did outside of that definition is astronomical compared to the scooterist.
Again, most traffic laws that I've been in contact with include language which requires you to be under complete control of your vehicle at all times, no matter the prevailing weather or environmental factors. If you can't see as far ahead of you as normal (sun, blizzard), you slow down until you are traveling at a speed at which you can appropriately react to the road as you see it. If you can't see at all, you STOP. Whether or not we even know the sun was in the driver's eyes, citing it would not be an excuse, it would be an admission of guilt.
I also wish we could change the way we assign responsibility in these situations (as a country). There's a tendency to say "he was on a moto/bicycle/walking, he should've known that he was more vulnerable and been more careful than everyone else." It's a symptom of our fatalistic view about accidents. Okay, no, it's a symptom of our pragmatism, and non-riders' fatalistic views. I wonder why people almost never say "he was driving a vehicle that makes everyone and everything else incredibly vulnerable. He should have known how much death and destruction he was capable of and been more careful than everyone else."
If we go hunting, and you take your slingshot and I take my M249, who's the bigger jerk for spinning in circles and firing off rounds randomly?
/rant[/i] |
Uh, calm down. That's not what I was going for at all.
Point is, both could have done more to avoid the situation.
The end. _________________ .::Scoot Happens!::.
ATGATTAWOTATT
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