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Scooter collision (Iowa St. football player riding)

 
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gt1000
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:08 pm    Post subject: Scooter collision (Iowa St. football player riding) Reply with quote

It was all over the news last night, but in case you missed it, a police dashboard camera recorded the classic left turn into a scooter head-on collision. The scooter rider is apparently an offensive lineman and big but still very lucky to walk away considering he was wearing no protective gear at all. Amazingly, he didn't land on his head.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81085706/

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ed85379
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An old guy driving the truck, not paying attention to oncoming traffic.

A scooter rider not paying that much attention and assuming that others are giving him his right of way. He didn't even slow down when the truck started turning. Looked like he was day-dreaming.

From the body language of the truck driver, I'd say he is going to be a hell of a lot more careful from now on. He looked fairly traumatized and upset, and a little lost.

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heyitsomid
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

His shoe went 40-50 ft in the air!
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okcgravity
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to defend the truck driver too much but...

If you look at the shadows on the ground it looks as though the truck was looking right into a low setting sun. With the scooter driver wearing a light colored hoodie I am not suprised at all that he was tough to see. I have had moments with a low sun where I have found myself going holy crap for a second or two when i could see nothing.

Glad the guy is ok, hope the story helps others to pay attention more but with the sun being where it is I am not suprised. There have been countless car to car wrecks that a low sun has caused. May explain a little bit of the truck drivers shell shock as well. See someone show up out of a glare 5 feet from your hood.
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Skootz Kabootz
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They crash victim appeared ok moments after the crash while still in shock. Let's see how he is doing in 3 or 4 days. That's when you'll better know the full extent of his injuries.
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BootScootin'FireFighter
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the most dangerous time of the evening drive, directly towards or away from the sun. Towards, obviously not only are you squinting and visually impaired, but the car behind you is as well when your the only one sitting at a red light. Away from, oncoming traffic is visually impaired as you saw here, or you have a blinding glare in your mirror. I'm not sure why it's not that bad in the morning ride, but the evening always feels much brighter, maybe it's because I'm more fatigued by then. If I have to be out for that short 30-45 minute time span, I pick less crowded streets with a lot of trees or buildings. Fortunately Northern Virginia is packed with both. I feel bad for you Arizona and Midwest riders.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

okcgravity wrote:
Not to defend the truck driver too much but...
If you look at the shadows on the ground it looks as though the truck was looking right into a low setting sun.
Yeah, the truck driver was at fault, but given the lighting I'd be inclined to file it under "be more careful in situations like this!" rather than "WTF you incompetent moron! WTF!!".

This sort of thing happens the most around the two equinoxes (March 21ish and September 21ish) every year. That's when the setting/rising sun lines up directly with east-west streets, blinding everyone who's going the wrong way (and partially-blinding people going the other way with rear-view mirrors). So it's getting to be that time of year.

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illnoise
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's why it's awesome to live in Chicago. by nature of Lake Michigan to the east, everyone lives west of downtown, so every morning you drive right into the sunrise, and every night you drive right into the sunset. I have to wear two pairs of sunglasses some days. Add the strobe effect of riding under the CTA tracks on Lake Street, and insane drivers, and taking the bus to work starts to look pretty good.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think every 3 and 4 way intersection should have turn lane and left turn traffic light. There should be no left turn on green on those intersections unless it is green arrow for left turn and everyone else has stopped. I guarantee there would be no accidents like that unless someone jumps red light. "Proceed with caution" does not work well when visibility is impaired
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Scoot
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:51 pm    Post subject: Scooter Collision Reply with quote

It seems to me that the scooter rider needs to do everything reasonably possible to make the rider visible. This man didn't want to injure the scooter rider, I suspect he just did not SEE him.
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pdxrita
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

illnoise wrote:
That's why it's awesome to live in Chicago. by nature of Lake Michigan to the east, everyone lives west of downtown, so every morning you drive right into the sunrise, and every night you drive right into the sunset. I have to wear two pairs of sunglasses some days. Add the strobe effect of riding under the CTA tracks on Lake Street, and insane drivers, and taking the bus to work starts to look pretty good.


I have the same situation. I head east in the morning and west in the afternoon, so when the sun is at that angle, I'm the one heading into it. I've always thought it was better for me to be the one being blinded by the sun than the oncoming traffic. I feel like it gives me more control over the dangerous riding condition. I have a helmet with a drop down sun visor. It's not very dark on it's own, but I sometimes drop it down over a pair of glasses when I'm facing into bright sun and it helps quite a lot, both with the brightness and the heat (surprisingly). It's nice to be able to deploy and retract it when needed.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I can't see the road ahead of me, I slow down...
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pdxrita wrote:
I have a helmet with a drop down sun visor. It's not very dark on it's own, but I sometimes drop it down over a pair of glasses when I'm facing into bright sun and it helps quite a lot, both with the brightness and the heat (surprisingly). It's nice to be able to deploy and retract it when needed.


+1

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Jackie F
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW!

I too saw the flying flip flop. The old guy was in shock. I hoped the paramedics checked him out too.

Props to the scooterist and motorcyclist for keeping their cool. A friend of mine got hit while riding his scooter by an older woman. Another friend who was riding with him verbally berated the driver after the accident which does not help at all.
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agrogod
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You all might want to take a real close look at that video again. Did you take notice, the way the truck is lined up after the hit, looks like he was trying to cut the turn short. Which means he would have been crossing the line into the turn lane of his direction of travel. He saw the scooter, tried to cut the turn, and made a serious misjudgment of the speed of the scooter. Short cutting turns happens around my area all the time, its illegal and if I had a dime for everytime I saw one..... . Of course it does make me wonder if the scooter had not been where it was would the motorcycle have been the victim?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i feel bad.....for the scooter Crying or Very sad

wonder what kind it was?

rip :'(
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quo Vadimus wrote:
If I can't see the road ahead of me, I slow down...


+1

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Scooter collision (Iowa St. football player riding) Reply with quote

gt1000 wrote:
The scooter rider is apparently an offensive lineman and big but still very lucky to walk away considering he was wearing no protective gear at all. Amazingly, he didn't land on his head.

Take a closer look, I saw him being placed into the Ambo ALL strapped down to the gurney.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Scooter collision (Iowa St. football player riding) Reply with quote

KABarash wrote:
gt1000 wrote:
The scooter rider is apparently an offensive lineman and big but still very lucky to walk away considering he was wearing no protective gear at all. Amazingly, he didn't land on his head.

Take a closer look, I saw him being placed into the Ambo ALL strapped down to the gurney.

That was just a precaution. Here's a follow-up from DigitalJournal.com

DigitalJournal.com wrote:
Hawkeyes coach Kirk Ferentz told Quad City Times he doesn't think Koeppel will be up to playing tomorrow's opening season game against Eastern Illinois.

Ferentz said: "The most important thing is he's healthy and ready to go and that's a big thing. Could have been a lot worse, certainly."

The coach has been against his players riding mopeds and scooters ever since he became Iowa's football coach.

He said: "I've been worried about this for 11 years ... on a couple of fronts. Number one, very few of them wear helmets, and the other thing is they're just not very protected."

Ferentz went on to say he understood why the guys rode the little vehicles. "Anybody who has worked on campus knows it's a nightmare to park. All we can do is encourage them to be careful and wear a helmet, and we haven't been very successful in that regard."

Guard Julian Vandervelde said almost all of the players own a moped or scooter to get around on.

"We're still poor college students," Vandervelde said. "It's like two bucks a week for gas, and you can get anywhere you need to go in 5 minutes. It's very convenient."

When he heard what happened to Koeppel, he rushed to the hospital to see his friend, but he had already been released to go home.

Vandervelde said: "Typical Koeppel. He was already out of the hospital. ‘Oh, I got hit by a truck. I've just got a few scratches and things.' He was up and about doing the Josh Koeppel thing. The guy is tougher than heck."

Amen.

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BootScootin'FireFighter
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Scooter collision (Iowa St. football player riding) Reply with quote

KABarash wrote:
gt1000 wrote:
The scooter rider is apparently an offensive lineman and big but still very lucky to walk away considering he was wearing no protective gear at all. Amazingly, he didn't land on his head.

Take a closer look, I saw him being placed into the Ambo ALL strapped down to the gurney.


That's standard protocol based on the mechanism of injury. Even though he walks around dazed, he could still have major trauma going on inside. He went from what looked like at least 35-40mph to a dead stop and smashed his torso against the handlebars and got thrown onto the hood. What always impresses me is how far away or high their shoes go. It could be military grade high-top tactical boots all laced up, they're still coming off. The human body is very resilient. We had a guy hit a utility pole in his car, was walking, talking, nearly refusing to go to the hospital, the whole nine. Finally the medics convince him to go as a precaution, he ends up with a ruptured spleen and nearly bleeds out internally.

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Jackie F
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The guy was on the Today show. Of course, they were calling it a moped.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/#39036382
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jackie F wrote:
The guy was on the Today show. Of course, they were calling it a moped.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/#39036382


I know. I almost kicked in the TV screen.

Bad thing though; my wife was watching the Today show right then. She really winced hard at the video Confused

She's already pretty nervous with me on the scooter but both the scooter rider and the truck driver were at fault IMHO.

Driver either didn't see the scooter or tried to cut him off and the scooter rider wasn't practicing good MC defense (which we need b/c of our amazing Ninja-like powers of invisibility Ninja to most drivers).

Be safe out there my friends.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and more importantly, he's a Univ. of Iowa player, not Iowa St. Razz

Go Hawks!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tocsik wrote:
both the scooter rider and the truck driver were at fault IMHO.

Driver either didn't see the scooter or tried to cut him off and the scooter rider wasn't practicing good MC defense (which we need b/c of our amazing Ninja-like powers of invisibility Ninja to most drivers).


Unless he was speeding, running the end of a yellow/beginning of a red, etc., it'd be great if we could not perpetuate this belief that the two-wheeled vehicle is always at fault, even for traveling in a straight line when it has the right-of-way. Could he have helped to avoid the situation? Sure. Is he at fault? Nothing in the video suggests so. Maybe your definition of 'fault' isn't a legal one, but one that sort of ethically includes "did this person do everything possible to avoid an accident," in which case yes, the scooter rider shares in the 'fault,' but the number and severity of things the truck driver did outside of that definition is astronomical compared to the scooterist.

Again, most traffic laws that I've been in contact with include language which requires you to be under complete control of your vehicle at all times, no matter the prevailing weather or environmental factors. If you can't see as far ahead of you as normal (sun, blizzard), you slow down until you are traveling at a speed at which you can appropriately react to the road as you see it. If you can't see at all, you STOP. Whether or not we even know the sun was in the driver's eyes, citing it would not be an excuse, it would be an admission of guilt.

I also wish we could change the way we assign responsibility in these situations (as a country). There's a tendency to say "he was on a moto/bicycle/walking, he should've known that he was more vulnerable and been more careful than everyone else." It's a symptom of our fatalistic view about accidents. Okay, no, it's a symptom of our pragmatism, and non-riders' fatalistic views. I wonder why people almost never say "he was driving a vehicle that makes everyone and everything else incredibly vulnerable. He should have known how much death and destruction he was capable of and been more careful than everyone else."

If we go hunting, and you take your slingshot and I take my M249, who's the bigger jerk for spinning in circles and firing off rounds randomly?

/rant[/i]
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Tocsik
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quo Vadimus wrote:
Tocsik wrote:
both the scooter rider and the truck driver were at fault IMHO.

Driver either didn't see the scooter or tried to cut him off and the scooter rider wasn't practicing good MC defense (which we need b/c of our amazing Ninja-like powers of invisibility Ninja to most drivers).


Unless he was speeding, running the end of a yellow/beginning of a red, etc., it'd be great if we could not perpetuate this belief that the two-wheeled vehicle is always at fault, even for traveling in a straight line when it has the right-of-way. Could he have helped to avoid the situation? Sure. Is he at fault? Nothing in the video suggests so. Maybe your definition of 'fault' isn't a legal one, but one that sort of ethically includes "did this person do everything possible to avoid an accident," in which case yes, the scooter rider shares in the 'fault,' but the number and severity of things the truck driver did outside of that definition is astronomical compared to the scooterist.

Again, most traffic laws that I've been in contact with include language which requires you to be under complete control of your vehicle at all times, no matter the prevailing weather or environmental factors. If you can't see as far ahead of you as normal (sun, blizzard), you slow down until you are traveling at a speed at which you can appropriately react to the road as you see it. If you can't see at all, you STOP. Whether or not we even know the sun was in the driver's eyes, citing it would not be an excuse, it would be an admission of guilt.

I also wish we could change the way we assign responsibility in these situations (as a country). There's a tendency to say "he was on a moto/bicycle/walking, he should've known that he was more vulnerable and been more careful than everyone else." It's a symptom of our fatalistic view about accidents. Okay, no, it's a symptom of our pragmatism, and non-riders' fatalistic views. I wonder why people almost never say "he was driving a vehicle that makes everyone and everything else incredibly vulnerable. He should have known how much death and destruction he was capable of and been more careful than everyone else."

If we go hunting, and you take your slingshot and I take my M249, who's the bigger jerk for spinning in circles and firing off rounds randomly?

/rant[/i]


Uh, calm down. That's not what I was going for at all.
Point is, both could have done more to avoid the situation.

The end.

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