Soft sieze buddy 70

slusher5 · Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:07 pm Post subject: Soft sieze buddy 70

I got a prima 70cc cylinder kit installed about 170 miles ago, and I've only been riding it about 35-40 mph, recently I've been going over to about 40-45. Today I rode it and when I was doing about 45 I hear a space gun type of sound, like if you say church "pew". Then my engine shuts off and I don't coast to a stop, but rather it's like my brakes are halfway pressed. I pull over turn off the bike and then start it up and it works.

please help

ScooterTrash · Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:05 pm Post subject:

Blown motor usually sounds like a can of rocks. Maybe transmission related

killbilly · Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:50 pm Post subject:

Doesn't sound blown.

Were you able to ride it after it restarted? Did you smell anything that smelled like burning oil? Did it make any clanking sounds?

In short, after hearing the mysterious sound, did anything change?

TVB · Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:19 pm Post subject:

If someone set of a very small thermonuclear device in your vicinity, it might sound like space gun, and the electromagnetic pulse could cause your engine to shut off. Smile

The "like my brakes are halfway pressed" part sounds like the combination of an unpowered engine plus an engaged transmission. If you manually shut off the engine while moving, the clutch doesn't disengage immediately. Until it does, the engine mechanism acts as a drag on the wheels, and that would feel a bit like braking. (A bit like down-shifting to slow down in a manual-transmission car.) Then when the clutch disengages, you start coasting freely. This doesn't explain why your engine might have stopped, but it could explain what happened afterward.

slusher5 · Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:25 am Post subject:

thanks TVB,

after that happened I rode it home and I think I noticed a subtle drop in performance, just few minutes ago I rode it again and it started dragging when I accelerated from a stop, before today it was very smooth and had no trouble accelerating from a stop

trackpete · Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:53 am Post subject:

It sounds like you went excessively lean or rich for a moment, which isn't a huge deal if it doesn't keep happening (lots of reasons it can happen). The key here is that it started up fine and runs okay - that's not a blown engine.

As to the perception of there being something wrong now, it may be that you are just creating that (happens to me all the time). My best suggestion would be to check the plug and see how it looks to get an idea for whether or not you have a consistent rich/lean condition.

Also, depending on miles and all that, you may want to get your trans belts checked. I misdiagnosed a slipping belt as an engine problem for quite awhile until I found out the truth - and when it finally broke I was convinced the engine was blown!

gearhead · Joined: 17 Mar 2009 Posts: 1178

soft seized?

slusher5 · Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:24 pm Post subject:

It may just be all in my head, but after that happening I feel like how could something not be wrong.

I only have 3600 miles on my scooter. Tuesday I'll get it checked out, but in the meantime is it ok to ride?

agrogod · Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:28 pm Post subject:

As for the

Dave · Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:18 am Post subject:

slusher5 · Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:56 pm Post subject:

I read a post on modern vespa about soft seizes and they talk about the back wheel locking up, but I didn't experience that. I might of fallen had that happened.

Anachronism · Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:48 pm Post subject:

slusher5 · Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:57 pm Post subject:

all this sounds very expensive =(, I've already spent so much I should of just waited a month or so and gotten the 125/150 to begin with

I'm going today to have the mechanic look at it

jmkjr72 · Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:41 am Post subject:

i would say soft seize also

pop the head off and look for a scuff mark on the cyl

slusher5 · Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:45 am Post subject:

is switching from an 80 jet to an 85 jet going to fix this problem? that is what my mechanic told me to do

ripped004 · Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:12 pm Post subject:

Hey everyone! I had the Scooterworks Stage 2 Performance Kit installed about 2 weeks ago from the dealer I purchased my buddy 50 from. After driving about 10 miles and at about 35 actual mph, I also heard a "popping" sound and was able to pull over to the side of the road. Thank God I had my uncle following just in case! I felt my heart drop to my stomach! I just waited 2 weeks for my newly upgraded scooter and put a lot of money into it. I did the M1 maintenance at the same time the upgrade hoping it would safe on labor costs. I immediately called the dealer/mechanic and he told me to try and restart it, and it did! He said it could have been a gas bubble or something. I was able to drive it home another 10 miles at 35 mph actual and is driving great 250 miles later. I've been driving carefully as they told me it takes another 300 miles to properly break it in and I'm supposed to take in for another M1 maintenance!? Does that sound correct?

Slusher5 - keep us posted on what they find out, but hopefully it was just a rare occurance.

Sorry for the long message, my first post.

Take care and happy riding!

jmkjr72 · Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:33 am Post subject:

what you mean the dealer didnt upjet when they installed the part

if you soft seized due to being lean and over heating then it might prevent future damage but if you have soft seized you have damaged your your bore and it wont undo the damage done

slusher5 · Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:40 am Post subject:

well the thing was, scooterworks gave me a 90 and 95 jet, he tried the 90 and it sucked, so he put an 80 which is all he had, and it was running great from untrained eye, i had no idea it was running hot though

JunkyardDog · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:26 am Post subject:

Just curious, how much did all the performance parts cost you? I have to wonder why you bought a Buddy 50, then spent a lot of money modding it into something unreliable, when you could have just bought the 125 to begin with, and it would be faster than your 50/70 will ever be, and be reliable at the same time. Jerry.

slusher5 · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:14 am Post subject:

well, i got a 50 to begin with cause I didn't have the money at the time for a 125/150

pipe was around $125-175(installed myself)
cylinder, spring, weights $110(probably $250 install/tuning)

I heard that 70cc buddy is comparable to a 150cc though cause 70cc is 2 stroke and 150 is 4 stroke in terms of speed/accel, the 150 is more reliable

JunkyardDog · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:28 pm Post subject:

I definitely understand the disire to modify things, I have been doing it with cars since I was about 13 (now 51). I got into modifying 50cc pedal mopeds for awhile, and built a few really fast ones, but their engine life was very short. You could buy lots of go fast parts ( My favorite was an 80cc Metrakit on a Puch E50 engine) With the right pipe, carb, filter, compression, porting, timing, etc., you could get 60 mph out of something that went 30 mph stock. But only a short time before the engine blew up.

With cars you can get parts to beef up the whole engine/transmission/rear axle to handle the extra power, allowing you to build a seriously souped up engine that is just as reliable, if not more so, than a stock engine. You can't get these parts for motorcycles/scooters/mopeds. Not against modifying, just like (and need) my scooters to be reliable. Jerry.

Anachronism · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:33 pm Post subject:

Anachronism · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:43 pm Post subject:

TVB · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:41 pm Post subject:

slusher5 · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:10 pm Post subject:

Anachronism, thanks for defending 50cc's

well I put an 85 jet in and it just slightly bogs, but nothing bad, hopefully its running safer than before

it's been about 200 miles since the parts were installed, is it ok for me to see how fast it goes, and go on 30min-1hr sustained 45-50bmph rides?

Anachronism · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:35 pm Post subject:

slusher5 · Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:56 pm Post subject:

how much does that cost and where do I get that done?

Wheelz · Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:12 am Post subject:

well, the short answer is if your mechanically inclined at all, a compression gage can run you anywhere from 20 to alot of dollars. I bought one from our local version of pep boys for like 30 bucks. It's super easy to check.

Remove spark plug hook up gage, either kick or turn the motor over and read what it says.
Not sure what the compression should be for your scoot, maybe anachronism, or somebody else would know better.
But checking it is not that hard at all if you got the proper tool.

Kaos · Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:14 pm Post subject:

slusher5 · Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:19 pm Post subject:

is running slightly rich a problem? if the compression test finds a problem then what? is the test just so you know something is wrong or can you fix the problem

Anachronism · Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:37 pm Post subject:

slusher5 · Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:02 pm Post subject:

just talked with my mechanic and he is saying that i don't need a compression test because the scooter is running and that its very black and white if there was something wrong, like that it's either going to run or not going to run

illnoise · Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:55 pm Post subject:

How is this one not in the "Double Entendre" posts thread yet?

That reminds me of my favorite joke (easily modifiable for your town!)

A penguin is out riding his old Vespa GS around Ravenswood one afternoon, and suddenly it konks out, and he can't get it started again. He checks for spark and it's all good, and the carb looks OK but it just won't kick over. As luck would have it, he was only a few blocks from Scooterworks, so he pushes it there and --miracle of miracles-- they were caught up on their waiting list for the day and the mechanic says, "sure, we can take a look, it'll take about an hour."

The penguin buys a copy of Scoot Quarterly and waddles south to Foster Pantry and hangs out in the frozen food section with some ice cream and sardines, and reads his magazine.

So he kills some time and heads back up to the shop. He goes back to the service desk and the mechanic sees him. "Hey, penguin, looks like you blew a seal!"

"No, that's just vanilla ice cream!" says the penguin, wiping his beak. "What's up with my bike?

jmkjr72 · Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:34 pm Post subject:

bs he is trying to cover his rectum

take your plastics off that the head off and slide the bore up and look for a scuf mark

with a quailty bbk your compression should be 100 or higher it should be 120 to 140 if its in tip top just broke in shape

infact part of proper set up is to double check the bbk compression after a few heat cycles along with runing squish checks to ensure that things are in proper running order

bigbropgo · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:56 am Post subject:

Kaos · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:27 am Post subject:

ScootLemont · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:02 am Post subject:

Anachronism · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:20 am Post subject:

TVB · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:38 pm Post subject:

BuddyRaton · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:46 pm Post subject:

BuddyRaton · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:01 pm Post subject:

BuddyRaton · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:04 pm Post subject:

Kaos · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:30 pm Post subject:

Anachronism · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:44 pm Post subject:

slusher5 · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:43 pm Post subject:

I'm not mechanically inclined and I don't have a lot of tools(just phillips screwdriver and socket wrench set)

how difficult is it to test the compression and aside from the compression gauge and socket wrench set what tools do I need? would it be cheaper to have a shop test it?

thanks so much for all the input

kneil67@yahoo.com · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:13 am Post subject:

my motor blew me Embarassed

BuddyRaton · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:15 am Post subject:

If your going to run kitted your gonna need one. Pickup one for like $30 at sears. Read the instructions.

Pull out the spark plug....screw in the compression tester...kick it over a few times

slusher5 · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:32 am Post subject:

I have no idea how to get to the spark plugs and it would probably take me hours more than someone who knew, if only my mechanic would offer to help but he is convinced nothing is wrong.

How long do you think it will take altogether? also if the cylinder is damaged would I be able to put my stock one in or would the weights and jets not work well with stock cylinder?

Kaos · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:34 am Post subject:

Wheelz · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:50 am Post subject:

slusher, it is soo easy to check your compression, even I can do it.