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Buddy 125 Under Belly Debris Frame Shield

 
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Hugo
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Buddy 125

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:35 pm    Post subject: Buddy 125 Under Belly Debris Frame Shield Reply with quote

The frame behind the front fender is very exposed and vulnerable to debris, such as stones and water, so I engineered a a simple cowling for protection.
This modification only requires a black office-style trash can, tin snips and a Dremmel tool.
Here are the before and after photos of my successful project...

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Last edited by Hugo on Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PeteH
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nicely done!
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Syd
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nicely done indeed, but I wonder will that impede air flow and cause the engine to run hot/overheat?
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Hugo
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Syd wrote:
Nicely done indeed, but I wonder will that impede air flow and cause the engine to run hot/overheat?

The thought had entered my mind, but many scooters have the entire belly section completely covered--even 2 strokes, which run super hot. There still seems to be much area behind the battery for air flow--not to mention the stock cooling system.

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Keys
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you maybe reducing cooling airflow?

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cheez37
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Joined: 15 Mar 2010
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Location: Houston
2009 Buddy 125 "Darth Scooter", 2009 Buddy Pamplona 150

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hugo wrote:
Syd wrote:
Nicely done indeed, but I wonder will that impede air flow and cause the engine to run hot/overheat?

The thought had entered my mind, but many scooters have the entire belly section completely covered--even 2 strokes, which run super hot. There still seems to be much area behind the battery for air flow--not to mention the stock cooling system.


Isn't air the 'stock' cooling system? Where do you think you are getting the additional cooling?
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Lostmycage
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That looks very nice, but it's going to cause the engine to overheat.
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Hugo
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The engine is already shrouded by the plastic cooling system. The only exposed area is where the exhaust connects.
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PeteH
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a good point - does the engine cooling air only come in the right-side fan intake, or is it also drawn in from below? I'm thinking (without looking at the scoot) that maybe air gets drawn in by the fan, but warm air is exhausted out the bottom. The hot air's gotta go somewhere.

On the 150s, there's an oil cooler down there, so this panel idea might not be so hot (pun intended). I'd have to stick my head down under the 150 and take a look.
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Lostmycage
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think of it this way: that's where they mount the oil cooler on the 150 models. Even if your 125 doesn't have an oil cooler, it still uses the air that passes through there to cool things off. Removing the air from an air cooled engine is like running a water cooled engine without water.
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mattgordon
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lostmycage wrote:
Think of it this way: that's where they mount the oil cooler on the 150 models. Even if your 125 doesn't have an oil cooler, it still uses the air that passes through there to cool things off. Removing the air from an air cooled engine is like running a water cooled engine without water.


The oil cooler is already behind the battery box which impedes it's airflow immediately in front of it.

The Buddy's are forced-air fan cooled anyway, with the air intake on the side being drawn in by the fan, not passively cooled like a motorcycle. In fact the shrouding surrounding the cylinder and head for the fanned air isolate those items from the ambient air.

No problem-o.
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Lostmycage
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Knock yourself out. I can't speak for certain that this would cause overheating and Mattgordon makes some good points. There are a few parts that aren't covered by the cooling shroud that do depend on ambient air flow.

If the Buddy had a temp gage I could see it being worth it trying out if undercarriage debri and muck is that problematic, but since all any of us can do is guess, *I* wouldn't try it.

Keep us updated on how it does through the summer.

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PeteH
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MattGordon wrote:
The Buddy's are forced-air fan cooled anyway, with the air intake on the side being drawn in by the fan, not passively cooled like a motorcycle. In fact the shrouding surrounding the cylinder and head for the fanned air isolate those items from the ambient air.

No problem-o.

Yeah, but you're only looking at one side of it.

Yes, the fan pulls air into the shroud, but where does it get exhausted? You've got to get rid of the hot air, and if it's supposed to be vented downwards, then such a plate might block it.
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BootScootin'FireFighter
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asthetically it looks nice, and cleanly cut and mounted at that. My opinion, and it's just that, an opinion... is that if the undercarriage weren't an important aspect of air circulation, then PGO designers would've covered it up from the start.
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Tocsik
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Hugo,
I hope the comments haven't been too discouraging or taken the wrong way. You did a really nice job cleaning up the underneath of your scoot with this shroud.
I have to admit, though, there is a lot of air flow right in that area. You can feel it when the motor is running. Others on this forum have wondered if there was an exhaust leak because they felt so much air movement underneath. It may well be the spot where the fan ejects the hot air so be careful, bro!

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charlie55
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're worried about overheating now, or become concerned in the future, you could always compromise by drilling an array of holes in the guard (really nice install; wish I could learn how to cut things neatly without losing body parts), or switching over to a plastic mesh/grid. Granted, it wouldn't do much to keep out water, but it should keep out the majority of the heavier stuff.
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mattgordon
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BootScootin'FireFighter wrote:
asthetically it looks nice, and cleanly cut and mounted at that. My opinion, and it's just that, an opinion... is that if the undercarriage weren't an important aspect of air circulation, then PGO designers would've covered it up from the start.


My Toyota has a factory underbelly shroud thst covers all the cooling system essentially sealing it off from the roadway. The cooling air still finds its way from the radiator etc out the rear of the vehicle thanks to the motion of the vehicle and the action of the fan.

The bean counters may have seen things differently in reference to what is essentially a "modesty panel" in a (constant) effort to keep manufacturing and market costs down. (ever wonder why there is no oil pressure light? Cost.)
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bigbropgo
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

looks pretty slick. you have extra garbage can left, just come halfway back from the new piece and hang it a little lower and its like a air induction fin (or something like that). not sure about the over heating as i don't have a buddy. looks good though.
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Hugo
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at it logically. it seems that PGO simply left that space open in order to allow freedom for the framework, which slightly sticks out (I gently bent the little plate back to allow for smooth install).
As mentioned before, plenty/most scooters are completely covered in that area--including much hotter running 2 strokes.
If the air system is doing its job correctly, I can't imagine an issue. There is also plenty of air space surrounding the exhaust port.

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Stormswift
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I managed to bust up the fan cover on my Buddy and needed temp. something to prevent small stones from being sucked in or accidentally hitting the fan I went to hardware store and got gutter cover aluminum netting type strips. I shaped and secured the make-shift cover and it stood up to the heat until I replaced it with factory cover 6 months later. I think the temp. fix may actually have promoted better airflow. If I was doing anything on the bottom of the scoot this is what I would try to use and see if it would do the same job as solid cover without holding in the heat.
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Hugo
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tocsik wrote:
Hey Hugo,
I hope the comments haven't been too discouraging or taken the wrong way. You did a really nice job cleaning up the underneath of your scoot with this shroud.
I have to admit, though, there is a lot of air flow right in that area. You can feel it when the motor is running. Others on this forum have wondered if there was an exhaust leak because they felt so much air movement underneath. It may well be the spot where the fan ejects the hot air so be careful, bro!

Why would the airflow of this scooter be any different from any other scooter that has the belly completely covered? The Zuma 50 2-stroke runs much hotter than the Buddy 125. It has a concealed belly using the typical shrouded air cooling system with no problems.
I'm not trying to be redundant or beat a dead horse, but there is not an official verdict on whether this area has been left open for reasons of panel fitment or airflow.
If PGO were considering airflow, they might not have had the lower battery compartment directly obstructing the immediate path towards the cylinder--same as so many scoots (50-250cc) with a completely concealed belly panel.

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Last edited by Hugo on Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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gearhead
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'll be fine... The peice of the engine not covered by the engine shroud is the valve cover and that gets air from the vented plastic peice behind your feet while riding Very Happy
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andylaiphoto
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Location: Miami
Buddy 125

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks great.
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jasondavis48108
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the underside of my sh150 is completly covered (makes cleaning it a whole lot easier). I can't imagine that you'd have any issues and it looks quite nice Smile
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