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Fuel In Air Filter Cover Again

 
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R50Rider
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Joined: 21 Apr 2015
Posts: 97
Location: CT
Roughhouse

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:23 am    Post subject: Fuel In Air Filter Cover Again Reply with quote

Not sure why exactly but I'm finding that fuel is seeping from the bottom of my air filter cover again. I could smell gas and noticed there was some indication of it on the side of my CVT cover. When I fill the tank I try to make sure I don't get any fuel splashing around that may work it's way down the vent line. That being said I also leave close to an inch of space below the top of that inner ring in the tank you aren't supposed exceed during refueling. I've read other posters who claim they may have had issues with the petcock leaking fuel from the tank right into the carburetor because the vacuum system isn't working as designed. Perhaps a diaphragm is defective? I haven't checked the carburetor bowl yet but the machine runs great otherwise. So I'm thinking about using a clamp on the fuel line running down to the fuel filter when I'm not using it or installing an in-line on/off valve. Another thing is that this problem does seem to occur when the tank has been full or near full. When it gets down to around half full it seems to be OK. It's possible the gas sloshes while riding around after fill-ups but I don't remember having this problem when it was new. Anyone else out there having this issue? The clamp sounds like a quick fix but since it's winter here I don't want to damage the fuel line and then have a real leakage problem due to it being brittle. Any suggestions or other ideas? I checked the fuel line (and filter) coming out of the tank and the carburetor without taking anything apart and everything was dry. So it's "within" the system itself which makes me wonder if it's a vacuum problem. ATGATT
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R50Rider
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Joined: 21 Apr 2015
Posts: 97
Location: CT
Roughhouse

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I checked the condition of the fuel line from the tank to the manifold/carburetor just now and everything is dry on the outside (and surprisingly clean). So no changes there. That being said there is a bit of fuel in a catch cup I put under the CVT. The fuel is seeping from the aft portion of air filter cover mating surface seam and migrating down the side of the CVT just aft of where the kick-start peddle is. Since the fuel line seemed pliable enough (despite the cold temps) I put a paper clamp on the downstream portion of the fuel line coming out of the fuel filter. I put a little Gorilla tape on the clamping edge of the device so as to avoid cutting into the fuel line itself. I think there is enough pressure to shut off the flow. . .time will tell. Either way this fuel system failure has to be corrected appropriately. I'm attaching a pic of the type of clamp I used.
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RoaringTodd
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Joined: 23 Jul 2012
Posts: 685
Location: Philly, PA
'04 Stella GB150 '15 Roughhouse '17 Versys 650.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've tried those clips - doesn't have enough clamping power.

Someone posted here recently about using a hand clamp and how it worked really well.

I'm thinking of trying to find a vascular clamp (medical device) and see if that'll work.

I have the fuel leak issue only when trailering.

RT

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R50Rider
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Joined: 21 Apr 2015
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Location: CT
Roughhouse

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The paper clamp I had on there had some heft to it. . .fairly tight spring action. . .they come in different sizes. I think it worked but I'm not 100% sure because there would have been residual fuel that already accumulated in the air filter cover that still needed to gravitate. There was definitely some fuel in the catch cup I placed under the CVT cover last night. . .but it didn't look like it had increased in appearance since the last time I checked it.

Today I realized I had a set of Stanley Spring Clamps of various sizes that I use for other stuff and thought I may be able to use one of those instead. So after my morning errand ride today (36 degrees out) I swapped out the catch cup and put a new clamp on the downstream side of the fuel filter. I didn't notice any sign of fuel on the CVT cover so if the cup is still dry after a few hours I'll figure the bigger clamp is a sure thing. That being said I'll still have to get to the root of the problem. . .but when it's warmer. I don't have a heated garage. I'll post my results. . .a quick fix is better than none. I attached a pic of the newer clamp type.
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R50Rider
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Joined: 21 Apr 2015
Posts: 97
Location: CT
Roughhouse

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I checked the scooter this morning and there was no fuel in the catch cup. I did replace the paper clamp with the Stanley Spring Clamp (opens to about 1 1/2 inches wide I think) early yesterday afternoon when I was done riding which seems to have inhibited the flow. I applied the clamp in the area that is easily accessible just downstream of the fuel filter. The fuel line is exposed for several inches before it enters into a protective covering closer to the carburetor. I'm going to continue using this clamp after each ride to see how it goes. I hope the pliability of the fuel line remains sufficient and doesn't deteriorate.

BTW I had purchased the 16 count variety pack of the clamps some time ago that contains a variety of sizes from small to large. . .the larger ones having more pressure. Walmart doesn't sell the same pack anymore but there are other brands of spring clamps out there to choose from as well. Harbor Freight sells them cheap too. . .
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viney266
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Joined: 19 May 2011
Posts: 2276
Location: westminster md
genuine Stella

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

quit messing with a tool ment for another job and buy one of these

http://www.mactools.com/en-us/Battery-and-Radiator/Cooling-System-Hand-Tools/75b4e1c1-2de9-498a-9f0f-a575010f0ac0/Hose-Pinch-Off-Pliers/HCP554/Mini-Hose-Pinch-Off-Pliers#Default=%7B%22k%22%3A%22hcp%20554*%22%2C%22o%22%3A%5B%7B%22d%22%3A1%2C%22p%22%3A%22Rank%22%7D%5D%7D

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viney266
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Joined: 19 May 2011
Posts: 2276
Location: westminster md
genuine Stella

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orrrr, just replace the petcock, they don't cost much, and sometimes they do go bad. They don't like E10 fuel too much. It can be changed without removing the tank from underneath.

However, I haven't seen one fail that was less than 8 or 10 years old. Not saying it isn't possible.

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R50Rider
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Joined: 21 Apr 2015
Posts: 97
Location: CT
Roughhouse

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's quite a hose pincer!

I've been using Startron gas treatment for years to offset the evil effects of E10 on fuel systems. So I'm thinking it could be a problem with the float needle in the carburetor bowl (never pulled it apart yet) caused by some kind of contamination or the petcock is out to lunch. It's just one of those things. It seems intermittent and more often occurs when the tank is full. That being said I'm just going to run it and continue to keep the fuel line in check until the weather warms up in a couple of months and then run the tank dry and do a proper investigation of the fuel system from tank to manifold. I'll probably replace the filter and petcock while I'm at it as well. Later this year I plan on getting a new PCX150 so whether I keep the Roughhouse or sell it the problem as to be resolved. I'd like to be able to keep it so my daughters could use it when they are in town for rides to the beach front. Of course they'd have to keep it under 30MPH. Laughing
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RoaringTodd
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Joined: 23 Jul 2012
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Location: Philly, PA
'04 Stella GB150 '15 Roughhouse '17 Versys 650.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks @Viney266. Didn't know there was one of those available. I like being able to run my carburetor dry before I put ThunderCat away for winter. This will help with the trailering issue as well.

RT

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R50Rider
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Joined: 21 Apr 2015
Posts: 97
Location: CT
Roughhouse

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ditto that. . .thanks again for the info on that serious hose clamp tool. The nylon Stanley spring clamp I'm using now has successfully kept things dry for a second day in a row so I'm going to stick with that and put money towards carb parts or a new petcock this Spring. The thing has been running like a top otherwise. . .

Another thing I'm keeping an eye on is the brake pads. I'm pushing towards 5K miles and so far so good but I know they don't last forever. The CVT belt seems fine as well. I make a habit of starting the scooter (cold) on the center stand and let the engine wind up fast enough to engage the clutch and make the rear wheel spin. Once it's started to warm up for a minute or so and the wheel stops spinning I move out. I think over the long run it saves wear and tear on the drive belt by reducing friction. Just a theory. . .and totally off topic. Laughing
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R50Rider
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Joined: 21 Apr 2015
Posts: 97
Location: CT
Roughhouse

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did a little further research and found that there are some testing scenarios one can do on the autocock (petcock) to see if the vacuum is being blocked. It involves a little work but I'll try it before I buy any new parts. It's possible some sludge could have worked it's way into the vacuum line side and caused a blockage at an inlet or outlet. Still going to use the spring clamp as a backup in the mean time until the weather warms up and it'll be more comfortable to work on it. . . ATGATT
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R50Rider
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Joined: 21 Apr 2015
Posts: 97
Location: CT
Roughhouse

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After reading more about fuel leaks in air filter covers, be it caused by a malfunctioning autocock (petcock) or carburetor, that other Buddy/Roughhouse owners have had I think at the end of the day I'm just going to end up making a trip to Advanced Auto parts and picking up some new fuel line, maybe a new fuel filter, and an inline manual shutoff valve (similar to Briggs and Stratton type) and be done with the fuel seeping into the air filter cover once and for all. The spring clamps are quick fix but not a long term solution because I ride this thing year round. I'm thinking the fuel line is 1/4 inch but not absolutely sure. Unless anyone out there happens to know I'll just have to remove it and measure it before I go to the store. I did look around but it's a hard statistic to find. . .or I'm looking in the wrong places. I've read where other Buddy/Roughhouse owners have replaced the autococks, or cleaned and replaced parts in the carburetors, and still have the problem reoccur not long after. So as long as my Roughhouse is running well I'm just going to go "old school" and put a shutoff on the fuel line and live and be well. That being said I hope it's not a worn reed problem. . .but I doubt it because the machine idles fine and runs strong right up past 40MPH. ATGATT
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