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Roughhouse 50 - Have to Kick Start/ Lights only when running

 
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hlthcareit
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Joined: 31 Jul 2019
Posts: 2
Location: Durham, NC
Roughhouse 50

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:59 pm    Post subject: Roughhouse 50 - Have to Kick Start/ Lights only when running Reply with quote

Hi There - I have a 2012 Genuine Roughhouse 50. Bike sat for 2 weeks. Would not start. Got a new fully charged battery. Would churn/ whir a bit but engine would not turn over. But quickly started with a kick-start within a few tries. Normally when key is on, lights come on. Now when key is on, engine light came on for 1/2 a second, and then no lights up front or on the "dash" until the engine started. Then, all lights worked (front light, dash). But when engine was stopped, lights stopped too (before key was turned to the off position- abnormal.

Any guidance on what might be happening? Maybe a bad sparkplug (I hope)? Bike ran well once it started, and then started right up using electric starter after I turned it off. then it started raining so that was the end of that experiment. But still no lights without engine running... hmmm.


I'll search for guidance on how to change a spark plug (can you tell I 'm new at this?) on a Roughhouse 50. LIke where it is, what model to replace it with, what tools I would need, and how to do it. Or should I let a pro do that? For a pro, about how much should I expect to pay for them to do it?

Any guidance appreciated. I bought the bike used and I"m hoping to avoid a big diagnostic bill over a 5.00 part, if possible.

Thanks!
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tenders
Member


Joined: 03 Dec 2018
Posts: 113

Buddy International 50 Italia

PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Failure to crank the starter motor when cold, but success after the engine has run for a while, and easy starting with the kickstarter, are classic symptoms of a dead battery. If you run the engine for a while and then manage to start it electrically, that’s because the battery has charged enough to properly crank the starter. If you continue to run it, charging it further, but the engine later won’t start electrically when cold, that suggests the battery isn’t holding its charge. That could be either because the battery is chemically unable to hold a charge (which happens with old batteries) or because some circuit remains on that is draining it.

The spark plug has nothing to do with these symptoms. Put the battery on a charger overnight and see if it will support a cold electric start immediately thereafter. If it can, but subsequently becomes unable, suspect the battery first, then look for unswitched loads, then suspect the stator/rotor charging components.
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iwannascoot
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Joined: 09 Apr 2016
Posts: 91
Location: Dawsonville Ga
Buddy 170i

PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Buddy 170 would refuse to start like yours. The starter would turn the motor over but I believe the battery did not have enough power to fire the spark plug. If I hooked jumper cables it would start almost instantly. I replaced the battery and solved the problem. You know, the 170 has no kick start so it has to have a good battery.
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JettaKnight
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Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 549
Location: Fort Wayne
Series Italia 161

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iwannascoot wrote:
My Buddy 170 would refuse to start like yours. The starter would turn the motor over but I believe the battery did not have enough power to fire the spark plug. If I hooked jumper cables it would start almost instantly. I replaced the battery and solved the problem. You know, the 170 has no kick start so it has to have a good battery.


The battery has no connection to the spark plug.
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Stanza
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Joined: 29 Jan 2018
Posts: 464
Location: Chicago
Puch Maxi, Honda C70

PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The buddy 170 is unique in that is uses an ECU. No power from the battery, or not enough power, and you won't be able to start it. Whereas a carbureted model such as buddy 50, 125, 150, or roughhouse, uses the stator to power the ignition system (CDI), so you don't need the battery for it to run. Probably why they didn't bother with a kick start on the 170. If your battery is too low to start it using the button, it's also too low to run the ECU no matter how much you kick it.
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hlthcareit
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Joined: 31 Jul 2019
Posts: 2
Location: Durham, NC
Roughhouse 50

PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:16 pm    Post subject: Roughhouse 50 - Have to Kick Start/ Lights only when running Reply with quote

Most grateful for this guidance - thanks to each of you.

Quick update; With new charged battery and no longer being cold. Bike starts immediately with electric start.

Remaining issue is that the lights don't work unless the engine is running. Also lights are very low unless engine is revved -at -least for the first few minutes - believe as you guided it is something with stator/rotor charging components. May I ask what unswitched loads mean?

So the bike runs, and I only got 1.2 miles on it to work in city limits, or half that to the store.If ever it would fail at night I can push it on a sidewalk or park it and walk home. A part of me thinks may I can limp along and not fix it.

May I ask if the new description yields any additional thoughts on what this might be? May I also ask what you would do in this situation? thanks again for the help/ info.
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scootERIK
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Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 369
Location: Lake Geneva, WI
Buddy 125

PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Roughhouse 50 - Have to Kick Start/ Lights only when run Reply with quote

hlthcareit wrote:
Remaining issue is that the lights don't work unless the engine is running..


Did the lights work when the engine wasn't running before the bike sat for 2 weeks?

I'm pretty sure the headlight won't come on until the engine is running(it runs off of the stator.)

With the key in and turn on you should be able to use your turn signals, the brake light should light up when the brake levers are squeezed, and I think the horn should work. The headlight, dash light and rear running light should all be off.

Also, if you only have a 1.2 mile ride you are going to need to get a trickle charger if you want your battery to last. A ride that short is most likely not going to charge your battery enough to make up for the energy used to start the scooter. Or you will need to do some longer ride on a regular basis to keep the battery fully charged.
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tenders
Member


Joined: 03 Dec 2018
Posts: 113

Buddy International 50 Italia

PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An unswitched load is something connected to the battery that de-energized by the ignition switch. For example, if somebody wired an aftermarket motion alarm, device charger, or extra light directly to the battery, that may be draining it even when the engine and ignition switch are turned off.

If your lights are working when started your power generation (stator) is probably fine. I continue to be suspicious of your battery’s health, “new” or otherwise. It is behaving like an old dead battery that cannot retain a charge.
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Stanza
Member


Joined: 29 Jan 2018
Posts: 464
Location: Chicago
Puch Maxi, Honda C70

PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Roughhouse 50 - Have to Kick Start/ Lights only when run Reply with quote

hlthcareit wrote:
Most grateful for this guidance - thanks to each of you.

Quick update; With new charged battery and no longer being cold. Bike starts immediately with electric start.

Remaining issue is that the lights don't work unless the engine is running. Also lights are very low unless engine is revved -at -least for the first few minutes - believe as you guided it is something with stator/rotor charging components. May I ask what unswitched loads mean?

So the bike runs, and I only got 1.2 miles on it to work in city limits, or half that to the store.If ever it would fail at night I can push it on a sidewalk or park it and walk home. A part of me thinks may I can limp along and not fix it.

May I ask if the new description yields any additional thoughts on what this might be? May I also ask what you would do in this situation? thanks again for the help/ info.



For clarification, the headlight on this bike is powered directly off the stator, and only gets power when the bike is running. Your taillight, horn, starter, and turn signals, are the only thing running off the battery.
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