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carb cleaning

 
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Kristina
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Joined: 05 Apr 2020
Posts: 1
Location: Virginia
Genuine buddy 50

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:18 pm    Post subject: carb cleaning Reply with quote

I have a Genuine Buddy 50. For months now, I have had trouble getting it to start and stay running, so it has not really been driven since early fall. Today, after I replaced the battery, it started, idled at full speed, and eventually slowed to a normal idle, presumably after burning excess oil from months of failed starts. When I tried to actually drive it, it died as soon as I started to crank the throttle. It says it has half a tank, but the death sounded a lot like it had run out of gas. My dad is currently picking up Gumout. Any tips for using it effectively or other things I should try? Aside from my ability to charge and change the battery (a skill I learned from y'all! Thanks!), I know very little about the inner workings of any vehicles. I am not at all mechanically inclined. I'm not a fan of the dealership and would like to avoid taking it in if possible.
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gif
Member


Joined: 06 Apr 2020
Posts: 1
Location: st Louis mo
buddy 50

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:31 am    Post subject: carb clean Reply with quote

Hope someone knows the answer. My 50 has the same problem after winter storage. I have cleaned carb 2 times and did not resolve. dismantled carb and blew out needle valve and float shut off .Going to empty fuel tank and fill with fresh fuel next.
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tenders
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Joined: 03 Dec 2018
Posts: 206

Buddy International 50 Italia

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You absolutely have to get all the old fuel out of the tank and carb first, replace the in-line filter, then meticulously clean the carb, before putting gas back into the tank.

Gumout does nothing good to old fuel. Neither does Seafoam or any other snake oil additive. You cannot make old fuel good again and nothing magically removes gunk in the carb.

Yes, this is a pain in the neck. But it is the result of storing fuel for months without adding Sta-Bil and circulating it through the carb/engine before letting the scooter sit all winter. It will otherwise happen to all small engines from scooters to pressure washers to snowblowers to lawn mowers.

I run StaBil in all my small engine fuel, all the time, to forstall this and haven’t had a fuel problem in (knock on wood) decades, including all kinds of time with ethanol fuel.
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babblefish
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Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 3073
Location: San Francisco
2006 Blur 180, 2008 Buddy St. Tropez

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With some of the really small passages in a carb and if it's really gunked up, the only way to truly clean it all out is with an ultrasonic cleaner. Small ones aren't too expensive but you'll have to weigh the cost vs buying a new carb. An OEM carb will cost your first born, but an aftermarket Chinese made one can be had for $20-30. I personally don't trust those but if you're on a tight budget...
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sc00ter
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Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 858
Location: Norfolk VA
19 Piaggio Liberty S, 98 Zuma

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ultra-sonic cleaner is the way to go. Be careful pulling the float bowl off, it tends to stick on really tight and when you force it off you'll 9 outta 10 catch the float and throw the height off. Draining the fuel is not that hard either. Its the ethanol added to the fuel thats causing all sorts of problems after a scooter has been sitting all winter. The Buddy 50 that I rescued not long ago (Pink Buddy thread) was sitting forever. Rubs great now. What part of Virginia?
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jayschro12orange50
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Joined: 18 Apr 2020
Posts: 1

Buddy 50 2005

PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, I'm a noob here! I don't pretend to be a mechanic but I'm willing to give things a try. My Buddy 50 has been sitting for a year. Just bought a new battery, drained old fuel, added oil. Still can't get it to start and I suspect it's because of a dirty carburetor. Our local shop doesn't offer any pickup service or house calls so I want to clean it myself.

The trouble is, I can't even find a schematic for a 2005 Buddy 50. In other words (sigh), I don't even know which part is the carburetor and how to clean it. Everything I've searched for on YouTube shows new engine models.

Can anyone point me to some resources for 2005 Buddy 50 carb cleaning??
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Alzero
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Joined: 10 Apr 2019
Posts: 33
Location: East coast waters
Lance Cali Classic 125

PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are unsure what the carb looks like I would suggest that you look online for scooter carb pictures and use them to identify it. Then carefully remove it and take it to a shop and let them clean it for you. You will have to remove fuel and vacuum lines as well as cables and perhaps electric plugs. Then you need to loosen the clamps holding it onto the engine and air cleaner.

Take pictures so you will get it back in place with everything hooked up correctly.
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tenders
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Joined: 03 Dec 2018
Posts: 206

Buddy International 50 Italia

PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Somewhere online, maybe here, there are PDFs of the "Buddy 50 Parts Manual" and the "Buddy 50-125-15-170 Owners Manual." There are extremely minor differences between the current Buddy 50 and the original Buddy 50 - the headlight being one of them, the carb NOT being one of the differences.

The carb has been discussed here very often. It's attached on one side to the engine manifold with two bolts that go through the carb and a plastic collar, and on the other side with a hose clamp to the air filter box. With a little practice once the underseat container is out you can get the carb in or out in less than five minutes, although the first time might take an hour. I use a very tiny ratchet on the bolts which was actually designed for screwdriving bits. The rest is a few hoses, wires, and throttle cable, which all come off easily. I suggest labeling them and taking photos BEFORE disconnecting anything.

And, as long as you're taking off the carb bowl, replace the two abominable Phillips-like JIS screws holding it on with M4-0.7-14mm length Allen-head bolts, which are stock metric items in the drawers (not the racks) at Home Depot.

It is possible, by trial and error and reverse engineering, to figure out reassembly without previous knowledge, but I wouldn't recommend it!

This is a Keihin BP series model 086 carb, which is custom-made for PGO and uses unusual jet sizes that are NOT the same as Keihin's widely-available PJ/PE 34/38 series. (I get mine from JetsRUs.com.) The proper slow jet is size #40 from the N424-74C line. The proper stock main jet is #75 in the "4mm" size.


Last edited by tenders on Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Point37
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Joined: 08 Mar 2018
Posts: 376
Location: Southcoast, MA
'13 Buddy 125 Seafoam

PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

manuals...if you can't find it there look it up on a parts microfiche website...
http://www.modernbuddy.com/forum/topic17349.html

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BuddyRaton
Scooter Dork


Joined: 09 Sep 2006
Posts: 3908
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
2 - many

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To properly clean a carb it needs to be taken all the way apart.

An ultrasonic saves time, that's it. I still soak mine overnight in carb dip then into the sonic.

An ultrasonic is great. I have a good commercial heated unit that I use for cleaning antique clocks, after taking them all the way apart. A good unit isn't cheap. I paid like $350 for mine used. A cheap wally or HF one isn't worth the money.

I use my ultrasonic for carbs because I already had it. I wouldn't waste money on one for one or two carbs a year.

Also never put your fingers into the solution when cleaner is on. It may result in nerve damage.

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'06 Cream Buddy 125, 11 Blur 220, 13 BMW C 650 GT, 68 Vespa SS180, 64 Vespa GS MK II, 65 Lambretta TV 175, 67 Vespa GT, 64 Vespa 150 VBB 64 Vespa GL
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tenders
Member


Joined: 03 Dec 2018
Posts: 206

Buddy International 50 Italia

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't doubt that a commercial cleaner is a larger and more powerful tool, but with a coupon, a $40 Harbor Freight ultrasonic cleaner is definitely worth the money for carb jets and other parts, cruddy fasteners, jewelry, small objects found with a metal detector, etc.

One trick is to enclose anything you're cleaning in a Ziplock bag with the cleaner (ie Simple Green), squeeze the air out before sealing the bag, and dropping the bag into the water-filled tank. You can do the same with a glass jar, the energy waves pass right through as long as there's liquid and not air in the bag or jar.
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BuddyRaton
Scooter Dork


Joined: 09 Sep 2006
Posts: 3908
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
2 - many

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want one that's fine.

First I only use stainless baskets. It's sonic so it's sound waves we just can't hear. Air being less dense transmits sound slower that a denser fluid such as water and it travels even faster through even denser plastic. Does that make a difference? I don't have a clue but I use it as designed and instructed to use to get the optimal frequency and results.

No matter what I always start with an overnight dip in carb cleaner. I love SG and use it in my sonic but I've had carbs that even my unit alone wouldn't properly clean that way. I've been using the same gallon of dip for 6 years.

Personally I would go dip and spray over sonic only.

If it works for you that's great but keep your fingers out!

_________________
"Things fall apart - it's scientific" - David Byrne
www.teamscootertrash.com

'06 Cream Buddy 125, 11 Blur 220, 13 BMW C 650 GT, 68 Vespa SS180, 64 Vespa GS MK II, 65 Lambretta TV 175, 67 Vespa GT, 64 Vespa 150 VBB 64 Vespa GL
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BuddyRaton
Scooter Dork


Joined: 09 Sep 2006
Posts: 3908
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
2 - many

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want one that's fine.

First I only use stainless baskets. It's sonic so it's sound waves we just can't hear. Air being less dense transmits sound slower than a denser fluid such as water and it travels even faster through even denser plastic. Does that make a difference? I don't have a clue but I use it as designed and instructed to use to get the optimal frequency and results.

No matter what I always start with at least a 2 hour dip in carb cleaner. I love SG and use it in my sonic but I've had carbs that even my unit alone wouldn't properly clean that way. I've been using the same gallon of dip for 6 years.

Personally I would go dip and spray over sonic only.

If it works for you that's great but keep your fingers out!

_________________
"Things fall apart - it's scientific" - David Byrne
www.teamscootertrash.com

'06 Cream Buddy 125, 11 Blur 220, 13 BMW C 650 GT, 68 Vespa SS180, 64 Vespa GS MK II, 65 Lambretta TV 175, 67 Vespa GT, 64 Vespa 150 VBB 64 Vespa GL
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DeeDee
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Joined: 26 Jul 2014
Posts: 757
Location: Denver
buddy 170i

PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're working on a carb that has only sat since October, you do not need to spend $40 on some contraption you will never use again. You need a $3.00 can of carb cleaner, and an 80 cent high e guitar string. Look on youtube for videos on cleaning a Kymco People 50 carb. They are very similar. You need to remove and clean both jets, clean out the slight varnish on the bowl and spray all passages with carb cleaner.
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Point37
Member


Joined: 08 Mar 2018
Posts: 376
Location: Southcoast, MA
'13 Buddy 125 Seafoam

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BuddyRaton wrote:
To properly clean a carb it needs to be taken all the way apart.

An ultrasonic saves time, that's it. I still soak mine overnight in carb dip then into the sonic.

An ultrasonic is great. I have a good commercial heated unit that I use for cleaning antique clocks, after taking them all the way apart. A good unit isn't cheap. I paid like $350 for mine used. A cheap wally or HF one isn't worth the money.

I use my ultrasonic for carbs because I already had it. I wouldn't waste money on one for one or two carbs a year.

Also never put your fingers into the solution when cleaner is on. It may result in nerve damage.


my cheap harbor freight ultrasonic works great!...little simple green hd and water...pull the bowl off the carb drop it all in...turn on the heat and turn it on and walk away while it buzzes...depending how dirty the solution is either change it or run another cycle till it's clean...when done put everything in a bucket and dry it all with a hair drier...reassemble and you're good...i've used it for carbs, tools, gun parts, jewelry, etc...very handy thing to have for how much it costs...especially for gas powered tools...i own a chainsaw, snowblowers (x 2), scooter, weed wacker, lawn mowers (x 2), generator, leaf blower...have owned 2 other carb'd motorcycles, rototiller...i have also clean co-workers and friends carbs for a 6 pack of beer

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buzzvert
Member


Joined: 28 Jul 2019
Posts: 102
Location: Longmont, CO
Buddy 125 (3), Yamaha Vino 125, lots of other bikes no longer in the garage

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My jet cleaning kit consists of the ends snipped off of the guitar strings after the last string change, and several strands of copper wire taken from some speaker wire. The Buddy 125 slow jet opening is soooooo tiny. I can usually only get the copper through.

Point37 wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:
To properly clean a carb it needs to be taken all the way apart.

An ultrasonic saves time, that's it. I still soak mine overnight in carb dip then into the sonic.

An ultrasonic is great. I have a good commercial heated unit that I use for cleaning antique clocks, after taking them all the way apart. A good unit isn't cheap. I paid like $350 for mine used. A cheap wally or HF one isn't worth the money.

I use my ultrasonic for carbs because I already had it. I wouldn't waste money on one for one or two carbs a year.

Also never put your fingers into the solution when cleaner is on. It may result in nerve damage.


my cheap harbor freight ultrasonic works great!...little simple green hd and water...pull the bowl off the carb drop it all in...turn on the heat and turn it on and walk away while it buzzes...depending how dirty the solution is either change it or run another cycle till it's clean...when done put everything in a bucket and dry it all with a hair drier...reassemble and you're good...i've used it for carbs, tools, gun parts, jewelry, etc...very handy thing to have for how much it costs...especially for gas powered tools...i own a chainsaw, snowblowers (x 2), scooter, weed wacker, lawn mowers (x 2), generator, leaf blower...have owned 2 other carb'd motorcycles, rototiller...i have also clean co-workers and friends carbs for a 6 pack of beer
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