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Dead Batteries

 
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360
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Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 72
Location: Chicago, IL
Blur 220, Blur 150

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:53 am    Post subject: Dead Batteries Reply with quote

Tried to go for a ride last night (after about a month a half of inactivity)and my battery was stone dead. I know I should've bought a battery tender/trickle charger...but I didn't intend for us to have such a crappy winter.

So now that it's pretty much dead (the red light "killswitch light" barely goes on) can I still get it working if I get a battery tender or do I have to get a whole new battery?
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illnoise
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Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 3593
Location: Chicago, IL
Blur 150, various vintage Vespas

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey 360!

It should still take a charge, it's worth a try, and you can pick up a tender (make sure it's a tender and not a fast-charger) at Pep Boys or Murrays, so there's no need to hit scooterworks unless you find you do need a new battery. If you do need a new battery, well, you needed the tender anyway.

Bb.

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EP_scoot
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Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 771
Location: Eden Prairie, MN
'06 BLUR 150

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian,
which tender should be used on the Blur?
In looking for it I noticed there is a JUNIOR and a PLUS, both 12V. The difference is the output.

Thanks,

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360
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Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 72
Location: Chicago, IL
Blur 220, Blur 150

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha, yeah that's probably what I should've asked. I was looking at the battery tenders and saw the pro and jr ($60 and $30 respectively). They're both sold at 6v and 12v, so would be the advantage to getting the pro? Would the pro work better for my "extra dead" battery?
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jasonkoscho
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Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 78
Location: Philly
Blur 150

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:31 pm    Post subject: Water Level Reply with quote

Could the water level be low?

* Check the water level of your battery regularly. This could be done in a two month interval. You can do this by screwing off the plastic caps found on top of the battery. Check if the water level is up to the neck or bottom of the hole.

* When refilling water on your battery, make sure you use distilled water for car batteries. Tap water may add or generate corrosion on the battery's terminals.

From here: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/167828/how_to_keep_your_car_battery_in_tiptop.html
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babblefish
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Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 2944
Location: San Francisco
2006 Blur 180, 2008 Buddy St. Tropez

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:25 am    Post subject: Re: Water Level Reply with quote

jasonkoscho wrote:
Could the water level be low?

* Check the water level of your battery regularly. This could be done in a two month interval. You can do this by screwing off the plastic caps found on top of the battery. Check if the water level is up to the neck or bottom of the hole.

* When refilling water on your battery, make sure you use distilled water for car batteries. Tap water may add or generate corrosion on the battery's terminals.

From here: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/167828/how_to_keep_your_car_battery_in_tiptop.html


The batteries in our scooters are the sealed type which do not have removable caps so therefore can't be refilled.
When the battery in my Blur died, I replaced it with a Sears Diehard 9BS which is rated for 8Ah vs the original 6Ah. It's a bit taller than the original battery, but the plastic battery cover still fits fine. If you don't mind leaving the cover off, a 12BS battery rated at 10Ah will also fit.
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jasonkoscho
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Joined: 16 Jan 2007
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Location: Philly
Blur 150

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:45 pm    Post subject: No Aqua!? Reply with quote

Thats good to know. Mine is 100% dead too.
Thanks.
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maxG
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Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 88
Location: england/asia
gmax 61mm

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1st question: how old is your battery

regulary, i change the battery every 2 years for optimum performance.[then either i use the old as spare or i sell it]

i also check my rectifier from time to time

im using a 12mah battery [one used on ATV's] on my gmax due to my HID system and 2 stebel nautilus horn.

its a bit taller and has more than enough juice that i would need.

if your battery is old..just buy a new one
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babblefish
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Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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Location: San Francisco
2006 Blur 180, 2008 Buddy St. Tropez

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maxG wrote:
im using a 12mah battery [one used on ATV's] on my gmax due to my HID system and 2 stebel nautilus horn.


A "12mah" battery is about the size of a Zippo lighter. Very Happy
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maxG
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Joined: 16 Sep 2007
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Location: england/asia
gmax 61mm

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my bad... 12ah..i mean Embarassed
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jasonkoscho
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Joined: 16 Jan 2007
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Location: Philly
Blur 150

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:31 pm    Post subject: Battery Reply with quote

What are the dimensions of the stock battery? Also - is it a 12v 6ah battery? Could you go with a higher amp?

Mine is dead, so im going to pick up one tonight. Any insight would help out.

thanks
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nissanman
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Location: Middletown, CT
Rattler 110 "Bucky"

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ah (amp hour) is really just the capacity of the battery. A 6ah battery will in theory last 1/2 as long as a 12ah battery. Think of it like having a larger gastank on your scooter, more gas means greater travel distance. They're still both 12v. It will help the bike if you have greater electrical needs (like with a HID system).
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jasonkoscho
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Blur 150

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:24 am    Post subject: ah Reply with quote

interesting - i did not know that. thanks!
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babblefish
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2006 Blur 180, 2008 Buddy St. Tropez

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Using a higher ah (amp hour) rated battery is useful if:

1) your engine gets cranky and refuses to start right away.
2) you make a bunch of short trips that require many starts in a short amount of time.
3) you have a lot of accessories connected to your electrical system such as lots of lights and a 1000 watt stereo system.
4) bragging rights - "my battery is bigger than your battery!" Very Happy
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360
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Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 72
Location: Chicago, IL
Blur 220, Blur 150

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, so I got the tender, but the blur service manual says you should take the battery out to charge it, yet the tender manual says if you take out the battery you need a battery extension cable which I don't have (I'm assuming to ground it?). Well, in all that debate I tried kickstarting it and it worked so I drove around the block a few times then realized my rear tire is half flat (will the problems ever cease? ha)...it keeps deflating so it probably has a slow leak somewhere. So until I get a new tire, I figure i'd ask...is there a problem with charging while the battery is connected or should I really take it out and get a battery cable to ground it? does it really matter?
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nissanman
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Rattler 110 "Bucky"

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't run the engine attached to the tender... leaving the battery in is fine. Why do you think there is a quick release you can just leave on the bike? Check the valve in the stem on your tires, that's the most common source for a low tire. If there's a larger tire place (even Sam's club etc) in your area see if they offer Nitrogen service. As long as it's not that expensive it may be worth it for you to have it done. Nitrogen leaks out a lot slower than regular pump air does plus you have the benefit of the moisture being removed. Check out www.mynitromax.com if you want to know more.
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360
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Posts: 72
Location: Chicago, IL
Blur 220, Blur 150

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...the saga continues.

So yesterday I finally started riding again...didn't use the battery tender just kickstarted and then made sure I went for a good 30-40 min ride after work to kinda charge the battery. And it now when I turn the key the clock is still set and the lights go on but I can't use the electric starter. Is this because the battery is still too low?

...at least I've now learned how to kickstart properly. First few times it took more tries than I'd like to admit on here, but now I get it in 2 kicks every time. Its actually more fun starting it that way but still I should probably be using the electric starter.

And thanks you guys...anytime there's a question someone always answers so quick!
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illnoise
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Joined: 06 Sep 2006
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Location: Chicago, IL
Blur 150, various vintage Vespas

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

360 wrote:
...the saga continues.

So yesterday I finally started riding again...didn't use the battery tender just kickstarted and then made sure I went for a good 30-40 min ride after work to kinda charge the battery. And it now when I turn the key the clock is still set and the lights go on but I can't use the electric starter. Is this because the battery is still too low?


Could be, or it was sitting so long that it's capacity was reduced and it's not holding a full charge.

360 wrote:
at least I've now learned how to kickstart properly. First few times it took more tries than I'd like to admit on here, but now I get it in 2 kicks every time. Its actually more fun starting it that way but still I should probably be using the electric starter.


Yeah, I kicked mine a few times the other day because my battery was pretty low and I was doing some short hops and didn't want to kill it with the starter. It's pretty easy once you get the hang of it.

I know with some Vespa models, the case around the kicker isnt' very strong, and people have cracked their cases with repeated kickstarting, but I've never heard of that outside of Vespa/Piaggio bikes.

360 wrote:
...the saga continues.

So yesterday I finally started riding again...didn't use the battery tender just kickstarted and then made sure I went for a good 30-40 min ride after work to kinda charge the battery. And it now when I turn the key the clock is still set and the lights go on but I can't use the electric starter. Is this because the battery is still too low?


Could be, or it was sitting so long that it's capacity was reduced and it's not holding a full charge.

360 wrote:
And thanks you guys...anytime there's a question someone always answers so quick!


And once in a while, we're even right!

So, when will this crappy weather f***ing end already? Let's ride!

Bb.

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jasonkoscho
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Joined: 16 Jan 2007
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Location: Philly
Blur 150

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:26 pm    Post subject: Battery Reply with quote

Do the lights dim when you hit the breaks or put on your turn signal? If so, its pretty low. Also try testing it witha multimeter and see what you get. If its anywhere below 10, you're def dead.
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nissanman
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Location: Middletown, CT
Rattler 110 "Bucky"

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your battery was real dead 30-40 min ride might not be enough. The stock electrical system probably has just enough to slightly charge the battery while running. I'd fully charge it with the tender and see what it does then.
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360
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Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 72
Location: Chicago, IL
Blur 220, Blur 150

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah the headlights do dim a bit when I brake
...ooo...kkkk... *dragging feet* I'll go and put the stupid battery tender on. (haha, I dont even know why I'm so reluctant to use it...well, yes I do, cuz I gotta run an extension cord out of my apartment window. I don't have the luxury of a garage.). Besides I think it's supposed to snow tonight (booo!)

...and I'm with you Beeb (and most everyone else in the North) DOWN WITH THIS COLD!!!! although the last two weeks have at least been ride-able...too bad I didn't start until yesterday really and now it's ready to snow again...great.

chris
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babblefish
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Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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Location: San Francisco
2006 Blur 180, 2008 Buddy St. Tropez

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Need to get some feedback on a charging/electrical problem:

After sitting about a week, the battery in my scoot drains low enough to not allow the electric start to work. The battery is about one month old.

Kick-starting sometimes works, sometimes doesn't.

Riding the scoot does not seem to charge the battery. I haven't had a chance to check charge voltage with my multimeter yet, but I will.

First guess would be a bad regulator, but since it won't start with the kick-starter either, I'm guessing it may be the stator coil/magneto.

Anyone have any thoughts/ideas about this?
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nissanman
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Rattler 110 "Bucky"

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the battery drains that quickly it sounds more like something is drawing current when the bike is off. Possibly a relay (a light would be too obvious) that is stuck or something similar. Could be a ground issue too. If the stator were bad you wouldn't have any spark, lights etc. I'm not sure what relays on on the blur but try to find a harness or relay that feels warm after the bike's been sitting awhile. When all else fails if it's less than 2yrs old try the warranty (if you still got it).
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babblefish
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Location: San Francisco
2006 Blur 180, 2008 Buddy St. Tropez

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just made some checks with my multimeter.
With the engine turning about 3,000 rpm, the voltage at the battery is about 13.5 volts - which is about right.
With the engine not running, there is a 200 mA drain on the battery with the under-seat light on and 15 mA after the light turns off. Doing the math, that equates to about 2.5 amps over a one week period. If I unplug the connector on the relay for the light, the current drain goes to zero. Guess this small drain over a week is enough to bring the battery voltage under 12 volts.

I'm thinking the reason my scoot wouldn't start the last time was because the battery voltage was so low that I didn't ride long enough to give a significant charge on the battery. Not sure why it wouldn't kick-start though.

Anyway, I've disconnected the under-seat light relay and will let the scoot sit for a week and see if the battery voltage drops again. Incidentally, the scoot seems to run fine without this relay, so all it's for is the light. I'll also monitor the battery voltage after my rides to see if it drops significantly, if at all (it shouldn't).

BTW: no warranty, bought my Blur used.
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EP_scoot
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Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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Location: Eden Prairie, MN
'06 BLUR 150

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bablefish,
let us know how it turns out. I have always wondered about that under the seat light. I don't really see it being that useful, but I see it being a cause for electrical issues as you are experiencing.

I will be interested in hearing about your results.

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beelzebubbles
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Joined: 14 May 2007
Posts: 149
Location: SF, CA
Genuine Blur 2007

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The battery for my Blur was dying - I'd been working from home and didn't spend much time scooting weekends, either. I got the battery replaced at the scooter shop, and along the way was advised:

To recharge the battery while riding, you want to be riding in the high RPM's for a sustained period of time (i.e. not stop-and-go traffic of short city streets).

Starting up the scooter drains the battery alot, so one way to save a little charge is to kick start it. I hadn't been using the kick start partly because some Vespa LX-150 scooter riders were complaining about their kick starts. Seems the Blur's kick start is much better than the Vespa's Smile Now I think I'll just kick start my Blur - partly to save charge, partly for practice, and I'm finding, mainly because it's kinda fun to kick your ride into action!

Just some FYI for people who leave their Blur out sometimes in long stretches, like I had.
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babblefish
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Location: San Francisco
2006 Blur 180, 2008 Buddy St. Tropez

PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, here's an update on my battery problem. After sitting for a week without being started, the battery voltage went from 12.68V to 12.64V (a very minor voltage drop and within reason) - this is with the underseat light's relay disconnected. It also starts right up with the electric start. Previously with the relay connected, the voltage dropped below 12V and the electric start wouldn't work. Guess I'm going to keep the relay disconnected. Smile
The next test is to go on some rides with some stops and starts then check the voltage at the end of the day or the end of a couple of days. Hopefully my charging system is in good shape.
There is some bad news here though - I think my old battery is still good because after charging it about three weeks ago, the voltage is still around 12.5V. But, the good news is that the new battery has a higher capacity so I don't have to worry about doing multiple starts per day.
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GaryEPSP
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Location: Columbus, Ohio
honda Met, GT60

PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost all manufacturers install cheaper batteries than they should. It's the same way with lamps with halogen bulbs, for instance. If you get one that works great, you should be grateful.

The Vespa LX150 case is terminally weak, I haven't heard this problem with Genuine. Most Genuine's are designed to be kick started. I wouldn't worry.

Beelzebubbles is 100% on draining the battery at idle. Starting up and running at idle will run fuel through the system but the demands of the headlight and other running lamps are too much for the battery to keep up with. Running at idle=draining the battery.

Although I haven't heard of the Buddy's battery going bad right away, I've heard this happen with the Blur too many times to be happenstance. If your Blur battery lasts a year, I would be happy with that. Then, replace it with a quality battery. Plus, many of these batteries were installed sometimes two years before they hit the scootershop floor. Just how it is. Cool
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babblefish
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2006 Blur 180, 2008 Buddy St. Tropez

PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another update on my battery situation.
After sitting for 2 weeks without being ridden, the battery voltage in my scoot was at 12.61v (under seat light relay is still disconnected). I went riding most of the day today and made at least six starts using the electric start. When I got home, the battery voltage was 12.77v. I think this more or less confirms that the under seat light relay is the cause of the battery drain - at least in my scooter. Maybe my relay is defective...does anyone else with a Blur have this problem?
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itcardoc
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Joined: 18 Oct 2007
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Location: Ambler,Pa.
2006 Genuine Blur 150, had 2005 Stella

PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 11:11 pm    Post subject: battery Reply with quote

Several important notes:
1-many tenders will NOT charge a battery that is below a certain voltage
2- a 15Ma battery drain is fine for car, but too much for a scooter/motorcycle (should be close to zero). Sounds like the light relay is faulty or something is feeding back through it.
3-an HID conversion kit is usually around 35 watts , the same as the factory headlamp bulb.
4- if you're not riding a long ride at least once a week, invest in a tender with a plug that you can disconnect from somewhere on the scoot.
5- get a battery voltage monitor with leds like the one in Aerostitch's catalog (aerostitch.com item #2577) great peace of mind.-Kevin

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showtime2100
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2007 Genuine Blur

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey my battery died in my blur. I came out of McDonald's and it was dead...I bought a tender...It seemed to have charge it but It kept going dead..disconnected the under seat bulb..still was going dead..Got to the point where i could only crank it one time without having to tender the battery. i ended up having to buy a new one from advance auto parts.
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babblefish
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2006 Blur 180, 2008 Buddy St. Tropez

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you checked your charging system to make sure it's actually charging the battery? You can do this by first putting your scooter up on it's center stand (to get the rear tire off the ground) then while reving the engine up to 2500-3000 rpm, measure the voltage at the battery with a voltmeter or multimeter to make sure it's at least 13 volts. Just in case, you might want to enlist the help of a friend to hold the scooter while you're doing this to make sure it doesn't fall off the center stand - you wouldn't want an "America's Funniest Home Video" moment. Very Happy
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Vortechs
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Buddy 170i & Blur 150

PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 5:58 am    Post subject: 2006 Blur underseat light relay location Reply with quote

I had the same issue as Modern Buddy member babblefish of seeing a ~12mA current draw from the relay for the underseat light (pet carrier light) even when the light was off. For anyone else who wants to try unplugging the relay, it is a small white rectangular box (about 1"x1"x2" tall) just behind the battery on the far left (facing forward).

I wrote a more detailed post over here: http://www.modernbuddy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=315102#315102

babblefish wrote:
Just made some checks with my multimeter.
With the engine turning about 3,000 rpm, the voltage at the battery is about 13.5 volts - which is about right.
With the engine not running, there is a 200 mA drain on the battery with the under-seat light on and 15 mA after the light turns off. Doing the math, that equates to about 2.5 amps over a one week period. If I unplug the connector on the relay for the light, the current drain goes to zero. Guess this small drain over a week is enough to bring the battery voltage under 12 volts.

I'm thinking the reason my scoot wouldn't start the last time was because the battery voltage was so low that I didn't ride long enough to give a significant charge on the battery. Not sure why it wouldn't kick-start though.

Anyway, I've disconnected the under-seat light relay and will let the scoot sit for a week and see if the battery voltage drops again. Incidentally, the scoot seems to run fine without this relay, so all it's for is the light. I'll also monitor the battery voltage after my rides to see if it drops significantly, if at all (it shouldn't).

BTW: no warranty, bought my Blur used.

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