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Who Has Ditched The Battery And Only Kickstart Your Scoot?

 
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Have You Given Up On The Battery?
Always Kickstart!
9%
 9%  [ 6 ]
Battery Dead No Ride!
4%
 4%  [ 3 ]
Kick If I have to then charge it.
56%
 56%  [ 35 ]
What is a Kickstart?
29%
 29%  [ 18 ]
Total Votes : 62

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twharton
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2006 Orange Buddy 125 (Piped & Pimped) / 2005 PX-150, Red, Sito+, UNI

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:53 pm    Post subject: Who Has Ditched The Battery And Only Kickstart Your Scoot? Reply with quote

I have a Buddy125 and PX150. I'm just tired of recharging the battery(s) every few weeks so disconnected them both about 3 months ago.

My Buddy starts first kick every time and the PX usually two / no more than three. Last weekend I removed the battery from both scooters. I did an extensive search and with all the hundreds of battery threads I didn't find one that did what I have done.

The only negative I have experienced is on the PX150 my high beam headlight is actually dimmer but it's halogen and the low beam is brighter than the Buddy high beam. I don't ride at night.

Is there a dual battery tender? The electric start...though covenient just seems superfluous to me.

Comments?

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lou76
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my extra headlight draws extra juice, so i always kickstart.
and there are battery tenders of all denominations.
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illnoise
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You entirely removed the battery? On older Vespas, if you run the bike without the battery connected, you'll fry the rectifier, and the turn signals and some other lights run on DC only. Also, to be DOT legal, your taillight must stay on with the engine turned off. Lots of people did a little creative rewiring to get rid of the battery (AC-only P-series wiring diagrams are on scooterhelp.com) but I'd think running without a battery is a bad idea, on the P at least. If it's working, that surprises me, maybe the newer ones are wired differently.

I don't know if running batteryless would have an adverse affect on a Buddy, but if you were going through a battery every couple weeks, you had a serious problem, it takes months without being used at all for a battery to lose charge, and even then, it's usually chargeable.

They do make multiple-outlet battery tenders, BTW.

Also, this isn't an issue on the P, but if the buddy kickstart is anything like the modern Vespa kickstarts, it's not very robust and isn't designed for everyday use, it's pretty much just there for emergencies, several people on Modern Vespa had problems with cracked engine cases or broken kickstart levers from frequent use of their kickstarters. The Buddy design, of course, is slightly different, but it may be an issue.

Bryan

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illnoise
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't get me wrong by the way, I love AC-only scooters, I've converted a couple of my old bikes to AC-only, but I find it hard to believe that everything's working properly on a modern scooter with no modifications aside from removing the battery, and there are safety issues, if your engine dies on a dark country road in the middle of the night, you're dead meat.
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Drumwoulf
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Who Has Ditched The Battery And Only Kickstart Your Scoo Reply with quote

twharton wrote:
I have a Buddy125 and PX150. I'm just tired of recharging the battery(s) every few weeks so disconnected them both about 3 months ago.

My Buddy starts first kick every time and the PX usually two / no more than three. Last weekend I removed the battery from both scooters. I did an extensive search and with all the hundreds of battery threads I didn't find one that did what I have done.

The only negative I have experienced is on the PX150 my high beam headlight is actually dimmer but it's halogen and the low beam is brighter than the Buddy high beam. I don't ride at night.

Is there a dual battery tender? The electric start...though covenient just seems superfluous to me.

Comments?


I keep my Buddy and my Vespa GT on Battery Tenders ( two Jr.s) alla time whenever I'm not riding them. Keeps them ready to go with peak charged batteries, and headlights are always bright!
If you got an '07 or up Buddy you can change the 30W halogen bulb over to a 55/65W Silverstar for greatly improved lighting w/o problems.. Cool

Having a kicker AND a (fully charged) battery on my Buddy gives me an added feeling of security. I wish my GT had a kicker too, but oh well.
However I don't feel any need to constantly practice kicking the Buddy on; I've done it several times, and I won't forget how to do it if I really hafta, y'know? Laughing

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robtaylor
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i agree that if you are losing charge so quickly something else is wrong, i started my buddy a few times all through the winter and never put them on a tender or took the battery out and mine start up just fine all the time.

i love the fact that the buddy has a kick lever but i love the electric starter even more, plus how would i plug in my dvd player without the battery? Wink
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rablack
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I rarely rode this winter. I'd go 3 and 4 weeks without starting up. It cranked every time and I don't have it on a tender. I've only had to kick it once or twice in 2 years.
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gt1000
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

robonz23 wrote:
i agree that if you are losing charge so quickly something else is wrong, i started my buddy a few times all through the winter and never put them on a tender or took the battery out and mine start up just fine all the time.

i love the fact that the buddy has a kick lever but i love the electric starter even more, plus how would i plug in my dvd player without the battery? Wink


I have to agree. I don't use a tender and hardly ever kickstart and I've never had a battery issue in 15 months and 2700 miles. Your bike should be able to sit unattended for a couple of months if the battery is okay and fully charged when you park it.

I would really get this checked out (unless there's some sort of extreme circumstance that you haven't mentioned).

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twharton
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's just low usage. It rarely gets ridden and when it does it's usually a 1.5 mile trip to the store....20 minute wait....1.5 mile trip home and then sit unused for 3 - 8 weeks.
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gt1000
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

twharton wrote:
I think it's just low usage. It rarely gets ridden and when it does it's usually a 1.5 mile trip to the store....20 minute wait....1.5 mile trip home and then sit unused for 3 - 8 weeks.


Sounds about right. Your rides probably aren't long enough to fully recharge your battery so you're slowly wearing it down and then letting it sit idle for long stretches.

I probably wouldn't go the route of removing batteries if my riding habits were similar to yours. I think I'd either try to ride more or go the battery tender route. Then again, one of my rides is fuel injected so kick starting isn't an option.

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Buddy_wannabe
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...no battery tender .... non-heated garage .... southern MN .... sat from end of Nov till the end of Feb without being started .... brought it out / cranked right over /started right up ....I do kick start now and then just because
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Drumwoulf
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

twharton wrote:
I think it's just low usage. It rarely gets ridden and when it does it's usually a 1.5 mile trip to the store....20 minute wait....1.5 mile trip home and then sit unused for 3 - 8 weeks.


Under those conditions I would definitely go the Battery Tender route, as it will not only keep the battery charged, it will also help to preserve it too. And I would throw a little Stabil in the gas tank once in a while also. Unused gas can gum up your carb after a period of just sitting...

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Drumwoulf
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buddy_wannabe wrote:
...no battery tender .... non-heated garage .... southern MN .... sat from end of Nov till the end of Feb without being started .... brought it out / cranked right over /started right up ....I do kick start now and then just because


Yeah, sounds good. Glad it's working for you now, but it might not do that every year... Cold sitting tends to wear down batteries. (And unstabilized fuel can get gummy sitting for months also..)

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twharton
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And I would throw a little Stabil in the gas tank
....

Got that covered. I live in Hurricane alley and have most of my adult life. If there's a storm headed into the gulf chances are either I'm evacuating or friends east or west of me are and staying with me.

I have a natural gas powered home standby generator in addition to 2 portables (just in case and trust me they always get used). In addition the first of April I fill up various containers totaling 35 gal with stabilized fuel and also keep my two waverunners full and stabilized for an additional 30 gallons (yeah I've siphoned from them before). Also every time I fill the PX or Buddy, always from home, I add 1 oz of SeaFoam (1/2 the recommended dose) to the 2 gallons.

No I do not keep the fuel in my garage. Exclamation

Here's the last storm we had 9/16/05.


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pocphil
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to echo Beeb's post.

You can not run these scooters without a battery, not even for a little while.

More important than anything, that battery is a capacitor. If you take the battery out of the system, when you rev the scooter all of that charging energy is being handled by the regulator with nowhere to go. You can safely run a scooter on a dead or mostly dead battery, but not one that is shorted internally or sulphated to the point of being useless.

We have replaced countless voltage regulators as a direct result of people running scooters on dead / shorted / missing batteries.

Remember, once your voltage regulator dies, you won't have any of your accessory lighting, no turn signals, no tail light, no horn, no speedo light etc. This may leave you in an unsafe situation on the road some night.

Buy and use a Battery Tender Jr. - At only $39 it's half the cost of a quality replacement battery.

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twharton
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks phil...already ordered(2). I must say I have been nothing but impressed on the Buddy starting first kick every time after weeks of sitting.
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hcstrider
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of the time I just use the electric start.

I have not yet purchased a Battery Tender to keep the battery charged. This winter I have been riding my Buddy every couple of weeks in order to keep the battery charged while it is in storage. These battery recharge rides are about 20 – 30 minutes long. In these instances I have been kick starting the Buddy because the electric start would unnecessarily drain the battery. I should just buy a Battery Tender but it is just sooooo much more fun to ride it.

p.s. That is a nice satellite loop of Hurricane Ivan.

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RabidChild
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

illnoise wrote:
Don't get me wrong by the way, I love AC-only scooters, I've converted a couple of my old bikes to AC-only, but I find it hard to believe that everything's working properly on a modern scooter with no modifications aside from removing the battery, and there are safety issues, if your engine dies on a dark country road in the middle of the night, you're dead meat.


I just had to replace my battery because it went completely dead and wouldn't hold a charge. I had no flashers for the turn signals (the lights came on but didn't flash) and the horn didn't work even while the engine was running.

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cameron
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is years late, and maybe totally obvious, but the buddy's battery will die unless the key is turned fully counter-clockwise. mine was ridden by somebody while I was out of town and when I got home 2 weeks later that battery was done. doesn't seem to be coming back to life on a charger either...
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EDIT: wow, I was tired when I responeded to this. Didn't realize it was posted years ago.....

Last edited by Lil Buddy on Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TVB
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if everything works without a battery, and the battery is in poor condition, and you're not using it to start the scoot... I'd still keep it in, for kinda the same reason I kept the nearly-dead battery in my old laptop (which I could only run on AC). The battery wasn't good for much, but when the electricity flickered (due to the third-world-quality grid here) it would condition the power just enough to keep the computer from rebooting.
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jasondavis48108
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TVB wrote:
Even if everything works without a battery, and the battery is in poor condition, and you're not using it to start the scoot... I'd still keep it in, for kinda the same reason I kept the nearly-dead battery in my old laptop (which I could only run on AC). The battery wasn't good for much, but when the electricity flickered (due to the third-world-quality grid here) it would condition the power just enough to keep the computer from rebooting.


I hate it when the power goes out and my scooter reboots, luckily my scooter runs Linux so at least it doesn't crash Razz

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My scooter flat won't kickstart. I've got a high compression piston and gaskets in it, and its just too much compression for the little kickstart cog in the Buddy.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Who Has Ditched The Battery And Only Kickstart Your Scoo Reply with quote

twharton wrote:
I'm just tired of recharging the battery(s) every few weeks so disconnected them both about 3 months ago.


Well, I'm a big believer in battery tenders as a way to keep batteries healthy through the winter season when ours are not ridden for extended periods. On the other hand, if your battery needs charging every few weeks and your scoot is being regularly ridden - I would think there is something wrong with the electrical system or it is time to change out the battery. It is possible that the scoot is being ridden on such short trips that the battery is never recharged but I'd think it is more likely that the battery has been damaged by extended periods at low charge (really hard on a battery).

I replaced the battery in our Buddy recently (after 3 years) with the higher output PTZ10S (YTZ10S). I'd think that would be a good choice for a scooter that is not ridden alot as it should retain its charge a bit longer.
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Howardr
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Buddy will kickstart, but it doesn't like it. There are terrible screeching noises with each kick. It takes multiple attempts, but will eventually start.
I certainly wouldn't want to kick it any more often than I had to.

Howard

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a really good upgrade battery in my 50cc scoot 9Ah as opposed to the tiny little 3Ah it came with. I still kickstart it almost exclusively though since having the running lights set up on it seems to be a drain on the system. I only use the elect start every once in a wahile to make sure it still works Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cant kick because I slid on it one winter day, and it's pushed into the box Sad
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm gonna make this super simple, POCPhil's post is dead on. The battery is a capacitor/buffer for many essential systems on the Buddy. DO NOT run it without a battery. Even a dead battery is better than two dangling connectors.

If you run it without a battery, I wouldn't expect any warranty remediation for the damages that you incur.

Last point, I'm gonna lock this here thread down. It's not going to do anyone any good at all.

If you stumble on this thread and your battery is dead, leave it in until you have a replacement. That's the end of the recommended suggestions.

Ladies and Gentlemen, POCPhil's (necro)post to play us out on the now locked thread:

pocphil wrote:
I'm going to echo Beeb's post.

You can not run these scooters without a battery, not even for a little while.

More important than anything, that battery is a capacitor. If you take the battery out of the system, when you rev the scooter all of that charging energy is being handled by the regulator with nowhere to go. You can safely run a scooter on a dead or mostly dead battery, but not one that is shorted internally or sulphated to the point of being useless.

We have replaced countless voltage regulators as a direct result of people running scooters on dead / shorted / missing batteries.

Remember, once your voltage regulator dies, you won't have any of your accessory lighting, no turn signals, no tail light, no horn, no speedo light etc. This may leave you in an unsafe situation on the road some night.

Buy and use a Battery Tender Jr. - At only $39 it's half the cost of a quality replacement battery.

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