Forums
 FAQHelp  LinksLinks    SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Speed tests on five scooters...

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forums » General Discussion Previous topic :: Next topic  
Author Message
Motorsport Scooters
Dealer


Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 93
Location: San Diego, Ca
Genuine, Vespa, and Kymco

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:54 pm    Post subject: Speed tests on five scooters... Reply with quote

I love working at a scooter shop. We took 5 bikes out on Friday and did off the line and top speed tests. Here's the results. I think the buddy did quite well for a 125.

Off the line:
1. Kymco People 150
2. Buddy!!!
3. Vespa LX150
4. Blur 150
5. Kymco Agility 125

Top Speed:
1. Kymco People 150
2. Vespa LX150
3. Buddy!!!
4. Blur 150
5. Kymco Agility 125

_________________
Max
Vespa Motorsport
619-280-1718
http://www.scooterwest.com/
#1 source for all things Vespa
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   Visit poster's website
ericalm
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 17637
Location: Los Angeles, CA
STELLA FOUR STROKE FURY! + Vespa LX 150/190 + '87 Honda Helix CN250

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was rather surprised when a much-heavier-than-I woman blew past me (on my LX150) on my morning commute one day. I was pretty impressed with its zippiness and how well it appeared to handle.

Considering kitting my LX to keep up with the Buddy at lights and stops! Razz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message [ Hidden ] Visit poster's website
vitaminC
Member


Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 768
Location: Redwood City, CA
ex '06 B125

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting that the Buddy beat out the Blur in both categories.

Do you have actual numbers for these tests? And how did you do the measurements?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   Visit poster's website
gt1000
Member


Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 1054
Location: Denver
Buddy 125, Vespa 250 GTS

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm curious...just how much of a difference was there in top speed, from fastest to slowest? 5mph? 10mph? And how were the top speed runs measured?
_________________
Andy

2006 Buddy 125 (orange), going to a good MB home
2009 Vespa 250 GTS (black)
2012 Triumph Tiger 800 (black)
2008 Ducati Hypermotard S, traded for Tiger 800
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
sparty
Member


Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 281


PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds scary that the Buddy beats the Blur.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Bryce-O-Rama
Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 251


PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not all that surprised either. I'm slighly surprised that the Buddy beat the Blur on acceleration, but it's so much lighter. If you had a handling test, I would be surprised if the Blur wasn't at the top of the heap, with the Buddy nipping at it's rear wheel.
_________________
- Bryce
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Motorsport Scooters
Dealer


Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 93
Location: San Diego, Ca
Genuine, Vespa, and Kymco

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The tests were done with 5 different riders, all in the 160-170lb range, all lined up at a stop light. We also switched riders, and came up with the same results. Top speeds were all within about 3-4mph.
_________________
Max
Vespa Motorsport
619-280-1718
http://www.scooterwest.com/
#1 source for all things Vespa
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   Visit poster's website
smorris
Member


Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 149
Location: Avon, Ohio USA
2006 Vespa LX 150

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I witnessed the acceleration of the Buddy over the LX150 this weekend, too. At every stop sign or light, bwilms would pull away from me when I was riding next to him. The same with the lady from Elyria.

Eric, I'm kitting my LX too. I've got the kit on the workbench to put in as soon as riding season is done.

_________________
Steve - Avon, Ohio
The Morris Garage

2007 Suzuki Burgman 400 ____ 2006 Vespa LX150 ____ 1965 Vespa 180 SS
2002 Subaru WRX Wagon ____ 1958 MGA Roadster
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   Visit poster's website
bwilms
Member


Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 123
Location: Cleveland/Akron, OH
Genuine Buddy 125 (Orange)

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smorris wrote:
I witnessed the acceleration of the Buddy over the LX150 this weekend, too. At every stop sign or light, bwilms would pull away from me when I was riding next to him. The same with the lady from Elyria.


I wasn't even trying. I could have SMOKED you! Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   AIM Address
ericalm
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 17637
Location: Los Angeles, CA
STELLA FOUR STROKE FURY! + Vespa LX 150/190 + '87 Honda Helix CN250

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smorris wrote:
I witnessed the acceleration of the Buddy over the LX150 this weekend, too. At every stop sign or light, bwilms would pull away from me when I was riding next to him. The same with the lady from Elyria.

Eric, I'm kitting my LX too. I've got the kit on the workbench to put in as soon as riding season is done.


(Sorry to get a little MV over here, but...)
Yup, I just need to figure out which upgrades will give me the most bang for my buck and let me keep my top speed. If you're self-installing, a photo tutorial over on MV would be great! The idea of doing it myself scares the hell out of me. Hell, I'd even pay for something like that. Maybe we should have "Modern[Scooter].com Deluxe" with premium content. Hey, Jess...?

It's a good thing my wife usually rides in front so it looks as if I'm letting her go ahead. Embarassed
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message [ Hidden ] Visit poster's website
dru_
Member


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 179
Location: In a chair

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, there is something to be said for weight, I ran up into the mountains with my brother Monday afternoon. I got the pleasure of passing of a Goldwing running 2 up and dragging hard parts in the corners (you shoulda seen the sparks) running hard. Of course, my brother left me in the dust, sorry, but a 250cc People isn't going to keep up with a Ducati ST4s anywhere Smile

Pictures of the Scoot and the Duc at the Burnt Mtn Overlook:

here

The doubletakes and grins we got blasting through the mountains was almost too much fun.

Speaking of the Duc, I'm looking for a reasonable price on (eg under $400 shipped) Duc topcase and rack for the ST4s as an xmas present for my brother, any leads welcomed. Best I can find locally is $600.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   Visit poster's website AIM Address
peabody99
Member


Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 1787
Location: San Diego
2015 BMW F700GS, 2018 BMW310r, 2016 Yamaha TW200, 1996 Honda Helix(sold), 2007 Buddy 125 (sold 2017)

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bwilms wrote:
smorris wrote:
I witnessed the acceleration of the Buddy over the LX150 this weekend, too. At every stop sign or light, bwilms would pull away from me when I was riding next to him. The same with the lady from Elyria.


I wasn't even trying. I could have SMOKED you! Wink


steve- instead of the kit maybe you should get a buddy ..you can just tell yourself it is for your wife...who by the way would love it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
ScooterN2
Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 23
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Blur 150; Black Buddy 125

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been riding both the Blur and the Buddy 125 and although I can't run them at the same time. Hands down my Blur is both quicker and faster than the Buddy. Perhaps the Blur that was tested needs adjustment?

But then the Buddy I have been riding has experienced some hesitation so perhaps it needs adjustment.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Motorsport Scooters
Dealer


Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 93
Location: San Diego, Ca
Genuine, Vespa, and Kymco

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an inclination that the Blur may have been low on tire pressure, but the buddy was definitely faster. I'll do another test just to make sure.
_________________
Max
Vespa Motorsport
619-280-1718
http://www.scooterwest.com/
#1 source for all things Vespa
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   Visit poster's website
rajron
Member


Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 1319
Location: ABQ & PHX
Buddy Sold - Vespa

PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you guys re-do this test?
I am curious because the Blur should be quicker than the Buddy, or at least it has about 25% more horsepower and it doesn’t weigh all that much more.
I know the People is quick, my wife can out accelerate me all the time with her People against my Buddy, the People has about 10% less horsepower than the Blur.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message [ Hidden ]
Bryce-O-Rama
Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 251


PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rajron wrote:
Did you guys re-do this test?
I am curious because the Blur should be quicker than the Buddy, or at least it has about 25% more horsepower and it doesn’t weigh all that much more.
I know the People is quick, my wife can out accelerate me all the time with her People against my Buddy, the People has about 10% less horsepower than the Blur.


PGO lists the weight of the G-Max (Blur) at 284lb. The Bubu (Buddy) is 222lb. So you're looking at 62lb. The Blur is therefore about 28% heavier than the Buddy.

_________________
- Bryce
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Motorsport Scooters
Dealer


Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 93
Location: San Diego, Ca
Genuine, Vespa, and Kymco

PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget that the US model Blur does NOT have the 4-valve head we were expecting. It's only a two-valve. And the Blur is significantly heavier than both the Buddy and the People 150. I haven't had a chance to retest, but I will soon.
_________________
Max
Vespa Motorsport
619-280-1718
http://www.scooterwest.com/
#1 source for all things Vespa
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   Visit poster's website
rajron
Member


Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 1319
Location: ABQ & PHX
Buddy Sold - Vespa

PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn’t realize the USA version had a different motor than the 4V – what does the USA get? – what a rip-off, do you know the power output for the USA version? - it must be the 10.3 horse power unit.
and I see the Blur weighs in more than the Buddy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message [ Hidden ]
jrsjr
Moderator Emeritus


Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 3971


PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rajron wrote:
I didn’t realize the USA version had a different motor than the 4V....

Just to be clear, as I understand it, it's the same motor, but without the high-tech cylinder head that PGO talk about on their web site. The thing to remember is that there's always a trade-off between horsepower and torque. The PGO site even mentions this explicitly. The simple trade off is that you can get more high-rpm horsepower with a 4-valve head, but you get that performance at the expense of low-rpm torque, which is what makes the vehicle fun and easy to ride in traffic, around town and even accelerating out of turns.

This is the classic conundrum that motorcycle manufacturers have been wrestling with for decades. Kawasaki made a 4-valve 600cc sport bike that was so heavily tilted toward making high-rpm horsepower, that it was difficult to ride in traffic. Moto Guzzi, on the other hand, have been criticized for making 2-valve machines that make great low-end torque but lack high-end horsepower.

With that in mind, consider that the Blur's motor only displaces 150cc's and the Blur weighs 284 pounds dry. With that much weight and such a small motor, the trade-off between torque and horsepower becomes very important. Around town, I would probably opt for the 2-valve head if I had the choice, but I'd want the 4-valve head when I hit the highway, even the 2-lane highways with 55 mph speed limits.

In the motorcycle world, they have a saying, "There's no substitute for cubes," and that was the conclusion I came to with the Blur. It doesn't need an expensive high-tech head. It just needs more cubic inches of displacement so it can make more power and torque.


Last edited by jrsjr on Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message [ Hidden ]
rajron
Member


Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 1319
Location: ABQ & PHX
Buddy Sold - Vespa

PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know what you mean about the cubic inches/cc’s but its so much fun to see what you can ring out of these little mills.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message [ Hidden ]
AxeYrCat
Member


Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Formerly: '07 Triumph Thruxton 900. '03 Genuine Stella 150.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saying from the car tuner world:

Horsepower sells parts; torque wins races. Smile

_________________
Huh? What just happened?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Motorsport Scooters
Dealer


Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 93
Location: San Diego, Ca
Genuine, Vespa, and Kymco

PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am in 100% agreement with you guys on the torque versus horsepower argument. However, my '90 GSXR 750 is faster across the board than my '96 BMW 1100cc sport touring bike, and way more fun to ride in any situation aside from touring, albeit more difficult.
However, I think all this is different when the vehicle has a CVT. Anytime you need power, the bike jumps to a high RPM pretty much instantaneously. So why not tune the heck out of it for high RPM power? It's not like you really need low end grunt unless it's a geared machine.
Anyone?

_________________
Max
Vespa Motorsport
619-280-1718
http://www.scooterwest.com/
#1 source for all things Vespa
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   Visit poster's website
vitaminC
Member


Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 768
Location: Redwood City, CA
ex '06 B125

PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Motorsport Scooters wrote:
So why not tune the heck out of it for high RPM power? It's not like you really need low end grunt unless it's a geared machine.
Anyone?


I would guess the 4-valve head is more complicated to manufacture, and definitely more complicated to maintain, both of which increase the costs to the consumer. And if you're just testing the waters of the scooter market, perhaps you find it better to meet a certain price point, then if the market is good, you could always bring the more powerful one over as a sporty "S" model...

Oh, and no fair comparing a GSXR and BMW- that's like apples and avocado's! Wink About all they have in common is that they're motorcycles...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   Visit poster's website
Motorsport Scooters
Dealer


Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 93
Location: San Diego, Ca
Genuine, Vespa, and Kymco

PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vitaminC wrote:
Motorsport Scooters wrote:
So why not tune the heck out of it for high RPM power? It's not like you really need low end grunt unless it's a geared machine.
Anyone?


I would guess the 4-valve head is more complicated to manufacture, and definitely more complicated to maintain, both of which increase the costs to the consumer. And if you're just testing the waters of the scooter market, perhaps you find it better to meet a certain price point, then if the market is good, you could always bring the more powerful one over as a sporty "S" model...

Oh, and no fair comparing a GSXR and BMW- that's like apples and avocado's! Wink About all they have in common is that they're motorcycles...


Oh, I agree on both counts. I understand why they did it from a price standpoint. But I would sure rather have the 4-valve high revvin' motor in my blur. I never really agreed with trying to increase low rpm power in an automatic. There is indeed no replacement for displacement, but why not tune the heck out of them for a specific RPM, and make sure the right roller weights are used to get the engine to that RPM whenever the throttle is twisted.

_________________
Max
Vespa Motorsport
619-280-1718
http://www.scooterwest.com/
#1 source for all things Vespa
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   Visit poster's website
jrsjr
Moderator Emeritus


Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 3971


PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Motorsport Scooters wrote:
...but why not tune the heck out of them for a specific RPM, and make sure the right roller weights are used to get the engine to that RPM whenever the throttle is twisted.


My guess is the reason why is that your assumption...

Motorsport Scooters wrote:
Anytime you need power, the bike jumps to a high RPM pretty much instantaneously. So why not tune the heck out of it for high RPM power? It's not like you really need low end grunt unless it's a geared machine.

is not exactly 100% correct. What I've noticed is that the RPM jumps pretty much instantaneously to whatever point the rollers spin out and the vehicle's inertia overcomes the motor's torque (ie the vehicle weighs something so it doesn't leap forward instantly). After that, as you continue to accelerate, the motor RPM vs. vehicle speed curve is more linear, which is to say, you twist the grip and you go faster again but with acceleration still being limited by the ability of the motor's torque to overcome the vehicle's inertia. My point is that the motor still operates in the torque curve, though not in the low-rpm range in the way that a clutch-operated motorcycle motor does.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message [ Hidden ]
dwnthehatch
Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 38
Location: Kent Island
09 Aprilia Scarabeo, 12 Genuine Stella

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I test drove both an Agility 125 and a Buddy 125 yesterday. Both my friend and I weight 155 lbs. I'm 5'11, he's 6'. On our tests the Agility outperformed the Buddy off the line and in top speed. Both had under 10 miles on them. We switched back and forth several times and the Agility won every time. The Agility seemed to pull harder uphill also. Now I'm torn. The Agility is definately different looking, is $500 less, and has better performance. I have 2 other kymcos (people 50 and cobra 50) and have never had a single problem. I just like the looks of the buddy more.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Motorsport Scooters
Dealer


Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 93
Location: San Diego, Ca
Genuine, Vespa, and Kymco

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you check tire pressure on them? Unfortunately, dealers often overlook that or don't keep up on it when the bikes sit on the showroom floor.
Good to know. Anyone else should post speed results here.

_________________
Max
Vespa Motorsport
619-280-1718
http://www.scooterwest.com/
#1 source for all things Vespa
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   Visit poster's website
Keys
Member


Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 2057
Location: Next to a big dirt lot.
'12 Kymco Agility 125

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talked to my friends at Scoot Over in Tucson. They sell both the Genuine and Kymco lines. According to them, the Buddy is faster and will out accelerate the Agility every time. They were, however, pleased with the handling of the 13" wheels on the Agility. Power, though, according to them, is not on a par with the Buddy.

--Keys Cool

_________________
"Life without music would Bb"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
Fullserve
Member


Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 14

Kymco Agility 125

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keys wrote:
Talked to my friends at Scoot Over in Tucson. They sell both the Genuine and Kymco lines. According to them, the Buddy is faster and will out accelerate the Agility every time. They were, however, pleased with the handling of the 13" wheels on the Agility. Power, though, according to them, is not on a par with the Buddy.

--Keys Cool


I have to chime in because I've ridden both and ended up buying the Agility. I've indicated elsewhere on the board that I think that both scooters are appropriately priced -- the Buddy is just a whole lot nicer looking and far "cooler", while the Agility is a fantastic value.

My guess is that it's difficult to judge a brand new scooter based on test rides at a dealer. I rode both the Agility and Buddy 3 times (at Motorsports, thanks Max!) and thought that that particular Agility was quicker off the line than the particular Buddy that I rode. I was actually quite surprised and it was significant in my decision to purchase the Agility. The test by the guys at Motorsports obviously disputes my findings.

I have had my Agility now for a couple of weeks and put 350kms on it. I have a very long and steep hill (Torrey Pines Road, for those familiar with San Diego) on my route to work and the first time I took the hill, I was quite disappointed because my Agility bogged down to about 48mph on the hill.

Since then, however, I have taken the hill three more times and have gotten faster each time -- now up to 52mph this morning -- quite respectible considering the length and elevation gain on the hill.

My point is that I would guess that these scooters vary quite a bit before the break in period. The Buddy I rode was doggish off of the line, but EVERYTHING that I read on the scooter indicates that it's a very fast 125, and I'm sure that it is. A better test would be to put two scooters with 500km against each other. This is not practicle at a dealer, of course, but ultimately it would provide a better result, IMHO.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forums » General Discussion Previous topic :: Next topic  Time: GMT

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

  Scootergear designed by riders for riders


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
All Content Copyright 2007-2011 by Modern Buddy. All Rights Reserved.