Genuine's official 2009 model lineup thread

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:07 pm

More fuel for my "prices going up" prediction:

http://2strokebuzz.com/i/scooter-china-pricing.pdf

Also, IF there's a 4-stroke Stella AND it's a manual, we don't have any idea if it'll retain the vespa-style metal body or vespa-style engine. No one has ever made a 250cc engine (or kit even) for a classic vespa frame, and considering the extra room needed for a bigger jug AND valves and such, plus coming up with something that would meet current emissions standards, there's a lot of engineering/design/expense involved.

Piaggiomade automatic vespas, but they were smaller (50) 2T engines.
Bajaj made 4T "vespas" but they were smaller engines (150) with manual transmissions.

Basically, you're trying to wedge several technologies into a package that was designed in 1946 and keep it looking authentic. CMSI/PM Tuning actually did a pretty good job of doing the same thing with the Lambretta, but didn't have nearly enough money to start up production. It seems to me if Piaggio and Bajaj haven't done it already, it's not going to be easy for a smallish Indian company with cash flow problems, even with the support of an even smaller American company and even if PGO is involved.

And the cost has to be right. There are people that will spend infinite money on a scooter, but they already own new PX150s or MP3s and they're not going to spend money on something that doesn't have a little blue shield on it. The rest of the market for a true vintage/modern hybrid is a bunch of cheapskates.

It can, and probably will, happen, but I don't think it's going to please everyone, and I bet the design will be somewhat compromised.

Part of the appeal of the Stella is its nearly universal interchangability with the PX. Part of the lack of appeal of the Bajaj Chetak was its compromise of design and interchangeability, and it's proprietary engine that turned out to be hard to work on and find parts for.

a 250cc 2-stroke 4-speed that looked just like a current Stella would make me happy. Others would sacrifice aesthetics to get an automatic transmission, or a CA-legal 4-stroke. They can't please everyone unless they do both, or other variations. Maybe they will. It seems like they're only able to import a fairly small batch at a time, so maybe more variations will allow them to import more.

We'll see.

Bb.

ddscooters · Post by **ddscooters** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:35 pm

200 version of the Blur? I'm in!

KCScooterDude · Post by **KCScooterDude** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:17 pm

pcbikedude wrote:
betsy q. bramble wrote:Not in my experience. I rode around on a People for awhile the other day and it took a lot more throttle to get to speeds that my Buddy gets to with barely a twist of the wrist.

Better riding is debatable...sure the bigger wheels take bumps more smoothly, but I found it less maneuverable. So...a trade off at best.

It has the world's tiniest floor board, too. I have normal sized feet and I found it irritating.

Lastly, I find the People to be hideously ugly.

end rant.
I own both with 5100km on the People and 5200mi on the Buddy. The Buddy is NOT a better scooter. Looks are equal. Some people do not like the faux vintage look of the Buddy. The People is 5mph faster than the Buddy on the top end. I'm not going to argue the point.

Entry level, the People is the same price as the Buddy. It is a step above the Buddy IMHO.

IMHO, Genuine needs to provide a scooter that Buddy owners can step up to. I have never had the opportunity to ride a Blur to say that it is that answer.

If Genuine doesn't have this answer, personally, I'm going look at other scooters like a Vespa GTV.

To me, a step-up model from the Buddy is exactly what Genuine needs to do. I do think they can get by standing pat in '09, but if they want to continue to grow sales than a bigger bike is the only way to go.

I say this because since buying the Blur I've adopted a scooter lifestyle. I use it for nearly everything and borrow my wife's SUV if I need to take out clients. I also have an older BMW coupe for this purpose is a pinch. Since we live in a large metro area I just need a little extra punch for short freeway jaunts or touring in the country - that's why I need a larger displacement bike.

I do have a Blur, and from what I understand, the performance is pretty similar to the Buddy. The modern styling doesn't appeal to a lot of American scooter owners, so that might be a problem being the step-up bike. However, a 200 or 250cc Blur, particularly if it's fuel injected, would be quite a jump up in performance. Offhand I don't know if PGOs bigger engine is fuel injected, but I know it exists. (I can't remember if it's 200 or 250 and dinner is getting cold so I'm not going to look it up).

Personally I love the styling of the Blur and it's got me looking at the Burgman, Magesty and X9 as a bike to move up into. Although, I did see three Scarabeos at the local coffee shop Sunday.

GrittyTacoman · Post by **GrittyTacoman** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:28 pm

Talked to the owner of a local Genuine dealership about the '09's. Course it could have actually been the janitor playing dress-up, but if this person did know what he was talking about: Don't hold your breath about a 200cc Genuine, they're planning something but supposedly having delays so no time soon. Few changes for the Buddy lineup, but he said potentially a new all-black Buddy 150. Also something about a "green" Buddy 125 or 150, more environmentally friendly, supposedly has a Buddy 50 carburetor, so little less performance. Lastly, he said maybe another Buddy Intl. version (Tehran?) coming down the pike. At this dealership, they're expecting 09's to arrive in October. Who knows if that includes any of the new variations.

docutech · Post by **docutech** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:50 pm

I saw the 09's at Extreme Toy Store today. 125's and 150's look identical. The 50's have a weird looking canister right above the muffler. I wonder what that is?

djelliott · Post by **djelliott** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:22 pm

docutech wrote:I saw the 09's at Extreme Toy Store today. 125's and 150's look identical. The 50's have a weird looking canister right above the muffler. I wonder what that is?

The air filter.

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:22 pm

here it is, I think. I always thought Gmax (dreamed stella)...we'll call it a Blur. at 200cc, it may be sweet:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motor ... 173378.htm

I guess it could still be nimble like a Buddy with the smaller wheels, and then go fast...

top speed??? MPG????

my utilization and scooter lifestyle is like KCscooter dude, so I am waiting to see what is next with a tad more power than Bud, but still nimble in the city

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:37 pm

You never know if there will be a 200cc stella, still no word on what or when the new 200cc bike will be out. High doubt on the stella, but you never know until it happens.

BuddyLicious · Post by **BuddyLicious** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:38 pm

I think a nice change to the buddy(excluding cosmetic changes) would be too change the wheel size up to 12" size.I think it would allow the buddy to ride better overall.Of course Genuine isn't going to make a larger engine in the Buddy.It's already at max,I would think.There isn't much I can think of that would make for a better buddy.Can you?

Tim

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:41 pm

Technically genuine doesnt produce the engines, but they modified a engine of the buddy to 200cc back then, No word if it worked or wasnt feasible to do.

I dont think 12 inch tires would fit on the standard buddy right now because of the front fender and rear fender, but longer forks and a higher mud flap in the back may work. Remember, 12 inch wheels is still possible in the future since the electric bubu had 12 inch wheels.

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:59 pm

BuddyLicious wrote: I can think of that would make for a better buddy.Can you?

Tim

no I really can't. Maybe nice metel body panels? I am just a laywomen when it comes to scooters so I am sure there are reasons why not besides the weight slowing it down. As far as engine size, I can't see it being safe by putting more power on those wheels and tiny frame.

eldoroddo · Post by **eldoroddo** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:02 pm

peabody99 wrote:here it is, I think. I always thought Gmax (dreamed stella)...we'll call it a Blur. at 200cc, it may be sweet:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motor ... 173378.htm

I guess it could still be nimble like a Buddy with the smaller wheels, and then go fast...

top speed??? MPG????

my utilization and scooter lifestyle is like KCscooter dude, so I am waiting to see what is next with a tad more power than Bud, but still nimble in the city

Mmmkay...

First paragraph: "chunky dual rear suspension smooths out the bumps and straightens the most challenging of roads."

Lower down the page in the Tech Data: "Rear suspension: Mono shock"

You can see what look like shocks/springs in two of the pictures.

Are we going to hear an excuse that this tech data is a bad translation?

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:48 pm

It is all Greek to me anyway, even when in English.

me understand: how fast, how much, how many miles per gallon, how it looks.

As I look at more pics of the Gmax above-which I think Genuine will rebadge as Blur...it really is not too scooter like-it is not step through! Boo!

Post by **ericalm** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:48 pm

BuddyLicious wrote:I think a nice change to the buddy(excluding cosmetic changes) would be too change the wheel size up to 12" size.I think it would allow the buddy to ride better overall.Of course Genuine isn't going to make a larger engine in the Buddy.It's already at max,I would think.There isn't much I can think of that would make for a better buddy.Can you?

I'd agree that 12" wheels are probably not possible on the current Buddy. The front/rear ends would need some redesigning. I'm not sure how much the Buddy would benefit from 12" wheels, really.

I've always thought a 190 or larger engine would be too much on a Buddy. There was talk some time ago of a 190cc kit (pics of a prototype were going around) but I honestly wouldn't trust the Buddy at the speeds that might attain.

There are some minor improvements I'd like to see on the Buddy:
Deadlights to running lights, stock without a mod.
Improved seat latch design. Such a little thing, yet…
Changes to the ignition—a little sturdier, not as easy to "trick out" and remove the key from while in "on" position.
New special editions. Maybe even some in limited numbers, as they did with the Stella special editions back in the day.
More accessories. I happen to know that there are all kinds of new accessories coming for the Buddy; I just haven't heard what yet. Stay tuned. (Someone contacted me last year saying they were starting a new site to sell specifically Buddy accessories and mods and it never happened. So… [shrug].)

Many of owners' past wish list items for the Buddy have been integrated over the past couple of years. This leaves little room for improvement; we're down to the nitty gritty now.

BuddyLicious · Post by **BuddyLicious** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:12 am

Dear Santa,
I really want a Buddy trike.I want my buddy to be able to the following things:

go down steps
jump up onto curbs
go across ruts
ride sideways on hills

And Santa,you can go here to give your elves the instructions they will need to build my 3-wheel buddy trike.Thank You Santa.

http://www.apax.ca/apax.mpg

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:35 am

This leaves little room for improvement; we're down to the nitty gritty now.
maybe a functional cup holder?

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:40 am

peabody99 wrote:This leaves little room for improvement; we're down to the nitty gritty now.
maybe a functional cup holder?

I second that. My cup of coffee is only 3/4 of a mile away from my office every morning, but its still hard to transport in the psudo-cup holder the Buddy has.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:59 am

Kaos wrote:
peabody99 wrote:This leaves little room for improvement; we're down to the nitty gritty now.
maybe a functional cup holder?
I second that. My cup of coffee is only 3/4 of a mile away from my office every morning, but its still hard to transport in the psudo-cup holder the Buddy has.

Are there any scooters with functional built-in cup holders? If so, do they look like those living room on wheels style touring motorcycles? The ones with air conditioning and all that jazz?

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:06 am

are there any? No, so why not the Buddy?

Maybe is could be an accessory

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:20 am

peabody99 wrote:are there any? No, so why not the Buddy? Maybe is could be an accessory

Someone should make a hook-on one that just snaps down onto the edge of the glove bucket.

olhogrider · Post by **olhogrider** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:34 am

ericalm wrote:
peabody99 wrote:are there any? No, so why not the Buddy? Maybe is could be an accessory

Someone should make a hook-on one that just snaps down onto the edge of the glove bucket.

Yeah, the Prima one won't stick to the Buddy. And I still want a rear disc brake!

coffeekittie · Post by **coffeekittie** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:43 am

peabody99 wrote:This leaves little room for improvement; we're down to the nitty gritty now.
maybe a functional cup holder?

Oh so absolutely a wonderful idea - the Scooterworks Primo one doesn't work - it does stick ok to the upper glossy head of the scooter, but the rubber holder thingies come apart and fall off the suction cup

gotta tell you, I almost lost my Creative Zen (clipped to the cup holder cuz it doesn't work with coffee cups

)

I know that we have a member, newly back from the Cannonball, who was experimenting with a cup holder - you know who you are!

How's that going?

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:50 am

I know a ton of lurkers are laughing at what scootering has come to and what sissies we are-wanting a hot cup a joe for the ride to work, or an afternoon tea for the sunset ride home, but hey, this is safe place right?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:32 pm

peabody99 wrote:This leaves little room for improvement; we're down to the nitty gritty now.
maybe a functional cup holder?

I'm sitting here thinking I'm still so far into the concentrate while I'm driving the scooter mode, that I can't even imagine drinking coffee at the time.

But I've owned several boats and I love my coffee ... so I've always added drink holders to those that did not come that way. You'll find a wide variety of pop-on drink holders at the different marine websites (I typically use the West Marine site) and even places such as Cabelas and Bass Pro. You might find something functional there.

Rob

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:35 pm

well, I don't drink it while I am driving, silly. I like a sip at the stops. Actually I am doing fine w/o it during most of the year, but in the winter, I love a hot cup of tea to sip. Call me an A$$, but I am still riding when most people have put them away for the winter.

coffeekittie · Post by **coffeekittie** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:13 am

Yes, it's pretty whiny to only have the lack of a coffee cup holder to complain about

But hey, what can you expect when you choose such a great scooter?

On a more serious note, I do wish that PGO could modify the ...er...fenders?... enough to accommodate larger tires. I loved that about my People, as fast driving or driving over rough pavement was so smooth. Probably the much heavier weight was a factor as well, but I know I felt the bumps much less. On the other hand, I have to drive on gravel roads daily, and Saxith does very well on them whereas my People did not. I never feel like she is going to slip out from under me.

Oh! I would also like the option of a stock windshield that had extensions that cover the hand, and had less utilitarian looks. I like what some people have done here with their windshields, covering the edges with black or chrome trim. If I do have a windshield made (there's a place in Tacoma that can), it's going to be a whole lot prettier than what's available from Genuine, and better for cold weather driving.

jcanavera · Post by **jcanavera** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:21 pm

docutech wrote:I saw the 09's at Extreme Toy Store today. 125's and 150's look identical. The 50's have a weird looking canister right above the muffler. I wonder what that is?

We picked up our Pamplona on Tuesday. We ordered in late August so we thought it was going to be an '08 coming in but it ended up being an '09. There are no differences between the model years according to the dealer.

Jack

betsy q. bramble · Post by **betsy q. bramble** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:25 pm

not YET anyways...............

Alix B · Post by **Alix B** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:55 pm

betsy q. bramble wrote:
pcbikedude wrote: Looks like Genuine better get on the ball. Not only the People is cheaper, it is a much better riding scooter, available, and faster than the Buddy.
Not in my experience. I rode around on a People for awhile the other day and it took a lot more throttle to get to speeds that my Buddy gets to with barely a twist of the wrist.

Better riding is debatable...sure the bigger wheels take bumps more smoothly, but I found it less maneuverable. So...a trade off at best.

It has the world's tiniest floor board, too. I have normal sized feet and I found it irritating.

Lastly, I find the People to be hideously ugly.

end rant.

About those wheels? Are they really any better because they're bigger? Aren't they not as wide? So, larger, but thinner----any handling difference?

BGK · Post by **BGK** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:02 am

Alix B wrote: About those wheels? Are they really any better because they're bigger? Aren't they not as wide? So, larger, but thinner----any handling difference?

The front is a little thinner but the rear is actually wider. The taller wheels usually roll over bumps and potholes better. But the quality of shocks is by far a bigger factor. Moving from a People 50 to an ET2, I noticed the smaller wheeled scooter handled railroad tracks better. I believe it was down to the shock design/quality rather than wheel size. Though I wouldn't think twice about getting another 2 stroke People 50. That slight difference in handling wasn't that big of a difference. I also found their floor space much more comfortable than slanting floorboard of any size.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:11 am

So here's what I can confirm right now:

The Blackjack, a matte-black Buddy with red rims
The eco-Buddy, a Buddy tuned to get high gas mileage but lower performance.

No word yet on the 200cc scooter or anything else.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:19 am

Repost of the image I took to show both new bikes incase anyone hasnt seen it.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:50 am

jfrost2 wrote:Repost of the image I took to show both new bikes incase anyone hasnt seen it.

Ohh, I like the green and yellow colors of those two bikes towards the back.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:19 am

Green is the eco buddy, other bike I circled is the black jack.

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:42 am

ehh. I'm not very excited. I was hoping for more and better.

robtaylor · Post by **robtaylor** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:56 am

ericalm wrote:So here's what I can confirm right now:

The Blackjack, a matte-black Buddy with red rims

from the pictures it looks like a different seat, do you know?
in the pic it also looks like a two tone blue on blue stella with a special seat, or is that something else?

robtaylor · Post by **robtaylor** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:59 am

ericalm wrote:
peabody99 wrote:are there any? No, so why not the Buddy? Maybe is could be an accessory

Someone should make a hook-on one that just snaps down onto the edge of the glove bucket.

i was thinking about that, you could make a molded piece of plastic that fit over the entire glove box with a cup holder and maybe a door or two to retrieve items stored inside and they would be protected from element and bouncing out. but i don't know how to do that, so i was thinking about making something similar with neoprene.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:13 am

robonz23 wrote:
ericalm wrote:So here's what I can confirm right now:

The Blackjack, a matte-black Buddy with red rims
from the pictures it looks like a different seat, do you know?
in the pic it also looks like a two tone blue on blue stella with a special seat, or is that something else?

From the pic, it looks like the Blackjack has a differently-shaped seat, black with red piping.

The other scoot looks like a Vespa P with a custom Piaggio seat.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:18 am

When I got my 30 seconds up close and personal with the bikes, the seat looked like it was designed for 1 rider, and super speed. It did have red piping, it was much more noticeable than in my picture.

Also, many bikes in the photo I posted are customs, but they are people's bikes in for service. It's true those were service bikes, but the black jack and ecobuddy are right next to them.

betsy q. bramble · Post by **betsy q. bramble** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:38 pm

+ "little" versions of all the international series

RuralRattler · Post by **RuralRattler** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:01 pm

Does anyone know how many cc's the Blackjack is, does it have a blackjack badge or does it say buddy 125/50/150

djelliott · Post by **djelliott** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:25 pm

RuralRattler wrote:Does anyone know how many cc's the Blackjack is, does it have a blackjack badge or does it say buddy 125/50/150

I believe the Black Jack is a 150 as in one of the International series. I could be mistaken though.

Dustin

djelliott · Post by **djelliott** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:33 pm

I might have heard something like the following.

The 200cc is slated for 2010
It will be a 4 stroke automatic
It will be a retro vintage design but with plastic panels
They (Genuine) are personally designing the bike and technology that will be associated with this bike from the ground up.

This post will now self destruct!

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:09 pm

The black jack is 150cc, and comes with a prima pipe on it already, rumors of other performance parts are in it too.

RuralRattler · Post by **RuralRattler** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:25 pm

jfrost2 wrote:The black jack is 150cc, and comes with a prima pipe on it already, rumors of other performance parts are in it too.

any idea of when they will be available

Tricia · Post by **Tricia** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:25 pm

I was down at NoHo scooters on Sat, and Mike told me that the Blackjack will have all sorts of fancy little performance parts. He also mentioned the putrid green bike, as well. I kind of like the lime green.

I have an 08 and my BF and his mom have 09 internationals. The only difference I can find is that the ignition looks a little different, and there is a little rim around the top inside of the gas tank. I assume that this is to prevent topping off. (vapor lock?) That's all Iv'e seen so far.

P.S.
Got Zac's new scooter on Saturday, he's put 240 miles on it.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:57 pm

No clue when they will be selling the ecobuddy or blackjack, or even advertise them on the website. I really love the ecobuddy's green color.

djelliott · Post by **djelliott** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:07 pm

jfrost2 wrote:No clue when they will be selling the ecobuddy or blackjack, or even advertise them on the website. I really love the ecobuddy's green color.

From what I was told the ECO Buddy gets 125mpg but a the lose of a significant amount of power.

Dustin

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:09 pm

Restrictions, lower jetting, and fuel injection give the ecobuddy the extra 30-40mpg. If the standard 125/150 was fuel injected, I'm sure it would hit 100mpg on average for everyone, seeing how a carb in the 125/150 gets people 80-90+mpg already.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:16 pm

jfrost2 wrote:Restrictions, lower jetting, and fuel injection give the ecobuddy the extra 30-40mpg. If the standard 125/150 was fuel injected, I'm sure it would hit 100mpg on average for everyone, seeing how a carb in the 125/150 gets people 80-90+mpg already.

Ohh, if it's injected, I think I just found a new part to try to order

Modern Buddy

Genuine's official 2009 model lineup thread

more wild rumors