I need someone to talk me out of this!

Halloweenie · Post by **Halloweenie** » Tue May 12, 2009 3:01 pm

I know it is foolish, but I have been in the market for my first scoot and I have fallen head over heels for the Stella. Everyone keeps saying though that it is a poor choice for a first ride, and that I would be better suited to a Buddy. I know they are probably right, but I can't take my eyes of that cute little smelly Stella. I understand that they do break down, but I am rather mechanically inclined and have been a commuting my bicycle for a decade now (Only my asthma is stopping me) so I am used to things breaking mid ride. So is it really that stupid to grab a 2t manual for my first scoot or should I find a Buddy?

Thanks!

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Tue May 12, 2009 3:03 pm

Get the Stella. Millions of people learned on a shifty. Just remember if there's a lot of stop-and-go on your daily rides, your left hand will get a good workout.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue May 12, 2009 3:18 pm

I would say

Get the Stella!!

While a scooter is NOT the same as riding a bicycle some of the skills will transfer. You are used to being on two wheels and shifting (I assume) while riding. Yes shifting is different on a scooter than on a bicycle, but if you can drive a manual shift cage it should be quick to learn.

Stella's are actually pretty reliable. Yes there are cables to occasionally adjust but the basics are pretty solid. The quality of Stellas has improved since manufacturing resumed.

If you buy new you will also get a warranty.

MikieTaps · Post by **MikieTaps** » Tue May 12, 2009 3:24 pm

get the stella for sure! you have to like what you ride.

alienmeatsack · Post by **alienmeatsack** » Tue May 12, 2009 3:30 pm

I have to agree with the peeps above me.

My Stella is a temperamental Goddess and I still love her daily.

You will too.

Or you will wake up screaming and crying, "Why did I not pick the Stella!?".

I'm just saying.

:D

Quo Vadimus · Post by **Quo Vadimus** » Tue May 12, 2009 3:37 pm

Don't do it! All of your friends will stop talking to you!

Because they'll be jealous of your rad style. Cha.

Angela · Post by **Angela** » Tue May 12, 2009 3:59 pm

Get the Stella. Its not impossible to learn. You'll just need practice. Why waste your money on something you don't really want.

I LOVE my Buddy, but let me tell you if the Stella were available in California I would have gotten that as my first scooter.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Tue May 12, 2009 4:22 pm

Get the stella if you want it. Back then people were saying in the 70's and 80's "The px150 is a great vespa to start out on" and the stella is just a px150 clone. Although at the time they didnt have a wide variety of automatic bikes like we do today.

But hold your horses! You might want to hold back for a while, the new 4 stroke stella is coming out soon! The life span of 4T vehicles is much better than 2T.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Tue May 12, 2009 4:26 pm

As long as you don't mind doing a bit of maintainance, Stellas are awesome.
They just require more maintainance than the Buddy would.

They're killer rides though!!

rgbwatcher · Post by **rgbwatcher** » Tue May 12, 2009 5:04 pm

Hey, Halloweenie!

I'm from West Chester (come out for a ride sometime), and I've been commuting with my Buddy 125 for seven months. It's great on the terrain of suburban Philly!

That said - get a Stella. If you can afford it and are willing to do the maintenance, there's no reason you shouldn't get the scoot that you have fallen "head over heels" with.

I haven't regretted my decision - I bet you won't, either.

beeporama · Post by **beeporama** » Tue May 12, 2009 5:07 pm

Halloweenie, you are in PA, so you can take the Motorcycle Safety Program course for free: http://www.pamsp.com/ Do that and see how you feel about a clutch.

Also note that a four stroke Stella could be on its way for 2010 or 2011 if you can hold off: topic10856.html

If you're mechanically inclined and unsure about your first ride, consider something used first, then maybe get a new ride based on your preferences once you're comfortable with scooters.

djelliott · Post by **djelliott** » Tue May 12, 2009 5:21 pm

It's your money. Make the purchase you know you will be the most happy with. I like and own a Buddy but have ridden plenty of Stella and Stella like scooters. They are all a blast. I would buy one in a heart beat if I found the right deal. Here's someone on scootcleveland.com selling their '05 for $2000.

http://www.scootcleveland.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=430

As far as I know it's a good bike.

Halloweenie · Post by **Halloweenie** » Tue May 12, 2009 5:28 pm

Now that I look, I think I may put off picking up a brand new scoot in favor of a used one for my first go around. Learn on a 2t the when the 4t Stella comes out I will be up to snuff on my riding!

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue May 12, 2009 5:35 pm

I really dont think that there is more maintance on a Stella.

No oil changes, no oil filter (gear oil change is a snap)
No valve adjustment because...well..no valves.
No belt replacement because...well...no belt
No roller replacement...because...well...no rollers

If you get a flat tire...no waiting for a truck...just change it in less than 5 minutes.

In my opinion I wouldn't wait for a 4T. I am always a bit leary of any first year model of anything. (I know I know...I bought an 06 Buddy 125 in 06)

And remember a 2T has twice the power strokes

Oh yeah...you can kit the snot out of a Stella!

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Tue May 12, 2009 5:42 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:While a scooter is NOT the same as riding a bicycle some of the skills will transfer.

Someone who rides a bike should have a much easier time getting the hang of a scooter than someone with only car experience. Obviously there's a difference because of speed and mass, but the fundamentals of swerving around potholes, leaning through turns, and watching for motorists who can't see anything with less than 4 wheels are the same.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Tue May 12, 2009 5:49 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:I really dont think that there is more maintance on a Stella.

No oil changes, no oil filter (gear oil change is a snap)
No valve adjustment because...well..no valves.
No belt replacement because...well...no belt
No roller replacement...because...well...no rollers

If you get a flat tire...no waiting for a truck...just change it in less than 5 minutes.

In my opinion I wouldn't wait for a 4T. I am always a bit leary of any first year model of anything. (I know I know...I bought an 06 Buddy 125 in 06)

And remember a 2T has twice the power strokes

Oh yeah...you can kit the snot out of a Stella!

Sure, list all the advantages without listing the same amount of disadvantages, that's really fair for someone new into scooting...

Have you forgotten about piston ring replacements? Carb cleanings? Engine rebuilds, life span? The list can continue.....

And remember a 2T has twice the power strokes

Propaganda. The buddy 125cc vs stella 150cc, 4T vs 2T is still faster. 2 stroke vs 4 stroke means nothing to me when a weaker bike is more powerful and faster in the end.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue May 12, 2009 7:34 pm

jfrost2 wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:I really dont think that there is more maintance on a Stella.

No oil changes, no oil filter (gear oil change is a snap)
No valve adjustment because...well..no valves.
No belt replacement because...well...no belt
No roller replacement...because...well...no rollers

If you get a flat tire...no waiting for a truck...just change it in less than 5 minutes.

In my opinion I wouldn't wait for a 4T. I am always a bit leary of any first year model of anything. (I know I know...I bought an 06 Buddy 125 in 06)

And remember a 2T has twice the power strokes

Oh yeah...you can kit the snot out of a Stella!
Sure, list all the advantages without listing the same amount of disadvantages, that's really fair for someone new into scooting...

Have you forgotten about piston ring replacements? Carb cleanings? Engine rebuilds, life span? The list can continue.....

And remember a 2T has twice the power strokes
Propaganda. The buddy 125cc vs stella 150cc, 4T vs 2T is still faster. 2 stroke vs 4 stroke means nothing to me when a weaker bike is more powerful and faster in the end.

Easy jfrost.

I did not say that there is not any maintance on a Stella and if that was the impression given I apologize. But I dont think I did.

The OP said he was mechanically inclined.

After the first time, which may take an hour, a full carb rebuild is less than a half hour. A couple of weeks ago I helped out an MB member that had left her Buddy sitting for a long time. Any carburator is going to get gooey if it sits.

Rings really arent that big a deal to replace. Sheesh there isn't even a head gasket to replace!

A full rebuild can be a big job. But realistically if you not hammering the thing its going to be a long time before its needed

His worry was breaking down a lot, I don't think there is a lot to be concerned about. Many people use a Stella as their daily rider.

What I meant was that ALL scooters have their maintance issues.

Those required for a Stella are no better or worse. Well some are better and some are worse.

Life span?

J...there are many many many many many many many many many 2T scooters over 40 years old still running strong. These are the ones that have had proper maintance and repairs and yes..rebuilds.

Yes a stock Stella is slower than a Buddy , a kitted Stella is faster than a Buddy.

The 4T Bajajs are not known as speed demons. If you can get 55 out of a Chetak you are doing ok. I think we know who is going to make the motors

J... your a smart guy but before you get uppity please check your math and relevance.

The point was not a 4t Buddy or a 2T Stella. It was a 2T Stella or a 4T Stella.

4 stroke.. one out of 4 strokes is a power stroke
2 stroke one out of 2 strokes is a power stroke

I don't think its fair to compare a Buddy with a Stella. If all you want is speed go for the Buddy. In reality they are to completley scooters.

The OP has expressed an interest in a Stella. Well...maybe more than an interest!

To the OP: check out the Stella section of Modern Buddy and check out StellaSpeed.com

J. You seem a little cranky today. Go for a ride and have some fun!

chromebroom · Post by **chromebroom** » Tue May 12, 2009 8:09 pm

You luv it you get it. No looking back and "if I would have, I should have", Nope-!! You get it, you luv it. Keep in mind that it is OK to have more than one, kinda like potato chips. What color Stella do you want?......... Maybe that should be the question.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Tue May 12, 2009 8:11 pm

BuddyRaton wrote: Yes a stock Stella is slower than a Buddy , a kitted Stella is faster than a Buddy.

The 4T Bajajs are not known as speed demons. If you can get 55 out of a Chetak you are doing ok. I think we know who is going to make the motors

J... your a smart guy but before you get uppity please check your math

4 stroke.. one out of 4 strokes is a power stroke
2 stroke one out of 2 strokes is a power stroke

To the OP check out the Stella section of Modern Buddy and check out StellaSpeed.com

J. go have some fun!

A 2T DOES make more power than a 4T, the Buddy 125cc *IS* a more powerful engine than a Stock Stella.

This comes largely from engine design. The Stella is based on a 40 year old P-150 motor. The Buddy is a modern GY6. Its just more efficient due to design. A modern 2T would likely kick the Buddy's ass, because like you said the 2T has 2X the power strokes.

Yes a Kitted Stella is faster than a stock Buddy. A Kitted Buddy is FAR faster than a Kitted Stella, especially since the clutch arms on a Stella's transmission will tear apart the clutch housing at around 70MPH. Trust me I've seen it personally. My Modded(Not yet kitted) 125cc can hit 88. I Stella 180cc doesn't hit that fast.

That being said, I LOVE both bikes, and would ride a Stella 2T or 4T.

The Bajaj isn't even a fair comparison.... Though they're reliable bikes too.

lmyers · Post by **lmyers** » Tue May 12, 2009 9:28 pm

Just what IS the life expetancy of my 2T? Do I need to start making funeral arrangements?

Seriously, I LIKE the simplicity of the 2T engine. I personally find it easier to maintain than my daughter's Elite or my ex-husband's Metropolitan. BUT... the best reason to buy a Stella? Total babe-magnet. Kinda like a baby or a puppy

alienmeatsack · Post by **alienmeatsack** » Tue May 12, 2009 9:30 pm

Yeah, I have like 30 babes all calling me all the time "Take me for a ride on your moped! PLEAASE!" and I tell em, "Listen you tartlett, stop harasssing me! And stop going thru my garbage!"

Actually, Ive had a few people ask me about the Stella. But NO babes throwing themselves at me for a ride or anything.

verdecalavera · Post by **verdecalavera** » Tue May 12, 2009 9:50 pm

we just scored a stella a week or so ago. we were in your mindset last summer. we both wanted stellas and we were talked out of it and got buddys. come one year forward and we were itching for the stella again. we found a deal we couldn't refuse. my wife picked up the shifty driving after one short lesson. she practiced for a second time this past weekend and she drove it home today. buddy is fantastic, stella looks fantastic(er). all that said, my wife doesn't want to sell her buddy, i don't blame her.

kneil67@yahoo.com · Post by **kneil67@yahoo.com** » Tue May 12, 2009 10:16 pm

ok Im here to talk you out of it cause that is what you wanted , GEt a buddy 125 but if you want a stella get that , or get both .

Apiarist · Post by **Apiarist** » Tue May 12, 2009 10:29 pm

i considered the Stella, but chose the Buddy. i wanted to fill up easily, didn't want to manage 2 wheeledness and a clutch, i think the storage is more on the buddy, or it matched my needs better.
but the Stella is a better looking bike in my opinion. then again after seeing what some have done with striping, etc, Bud's can be a close second.
i love my scoot. hope you love yours too whatever you choose

Any quoting, reproduction or other use of this post without the express written consent of Major League Baseball is prohibited.

lmyers · Post by **lmyers** » Tue May 12, 2009 10:34 pm

alienmeatsack wrote:Yeah, I have like 30 babes all calling me all the time "Take me for a ride on your moped! PLEAASE!" and I tell em, "Listen you tartlett, stop harasssing me! And stop going thru my garbage!"

Actually, Ive had a few people ask me about the Stella. But NO babes throwing themselves at me for a ride or anything.

You gotta get out more.

BuddyLicious · Post by **BuddyLicious** » Tue May 12, 2009 10:48 pm

To the OP,I'd write down every pro and con of the Stella and which ever count is higher go with that.Don't beat yourself up deciding but do be honest with your list of pro and con.Cause remember those cons WILL happen too.

PS-OP about your Avatar,are you taking a dump? Hemroids?

n2tattoos · Post by **n2tattoos** » Tue May 12, 2009 11:05 pm

just get the Stella.

DO IT!!!

you know you want to!

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue May 12, 2009 11:25 pm

Kaos wrote: Yes a Kitted Stella is faster than a stock Buddy. A Kitted Buddy is FAR faster than a Kitted Stella, especially since the clutch arms on a Stella's transmission will tear apart the clutch housing at around 70MPH. Trust me I've seen it personally. My Modded(Not yet kitted) 125cc can hit 88. I Stella 180cc doesn't hit that fast.

That being said, I LOVE both bikes, and would ride a Stella 2T or 4T..

There are was to prevent the"asploding"clutch issue.

It seems like the OP is really justl ooking for a commuter bike.

Oh yeah...one other thing..4T Stellas don't exist ...yet.

If your jonesing for a scooter 2010 is a long wait!

Post by **ericalm** » Wed May 13, 2009 12:12 am

BuddyRaton wrote:Oh yeah...one other thing..4T Stellas don't exist ...yet.

Sure they exist. I've seen pictures and know reliable people who have ridden it. They're just not available in dealers.

I've heard these may be "early 2010s," possibly available in the fall. Depends on certification, shipping times, etc.

All this 4T vs. 2T Stella speculation is nothing but hot air and hooey at this point. This is a brand new, 2009 engine design versus one that hasn't changed much in at least 40 years. Can a 4T 150 be designed to be faster than a 2T? Hell, yeah. Is the 4T Stella going to be a pokey, lumbering beast? I seriously doubt it. As fast as the 2T? Probably? Faster? Mmmmaybe. I hear it definitely has a much higher top end.

As far as reliability goes… Every mechanic and dealer I've spoken with, many of whom have decades of experience with 2T P-series and their progeny, has said a Stella will not be as reliable as a Buddy. Period. It may not require more maintenance, but more things are going to wear out or break faster. Usually little things, like cables, but still… Scooters don't come much more reliable than a Buddy.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed May 13, 2009 12:23 am

ericalm wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:Oh yeah...one other thing..4T Stellas don't exist ...yet.
Sure they exist. I've seen pictures and know reliable people who have ridden it. They're just not available in dealers.

I've heard these may be "early 2010s," possibly available in the fall. Depends on certification, shipping times, etc.

All this 4T vs. 2T Stella speculation is nothing but hot air and hooey at this point. This is a brand new, 2009 engine design versus one that hasn't changed much in at least 40 years. Can a 4T 150 be designed to be faster than a 2T? Hell, yeah. Is the 4T Stella going to be a pokey, lumbering beast? I seriously doubt it. As fast as the 2T? Probably? Faster? Mmmmaybe. I hear it definitely has a much higher top end.

As far as reliability goes… Every mechanic and dealer I've spoken with, many of whom have decades of experience with 2T P-series and their progeny, has said a Stella will not be as reliable as a Buddy. Period. It may not require more maintenance, but more things are going to wear out or break faster. Usually little things, like cables, but still… Scooters don't come much more reliable than a Buddy.

You want one bad don't you!

Post by **ericalm** » Wed May 13, 2009 12:39 am

BuddyRaton wrote:
ericalm wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:Oh yeah...one other thing..4T Stellas don't exist ...yet.
Sure they exist. I've seen pictures and know reliable people who have ridden it. They're just not available in dealers.

I've heard these may be "early 2010s," possibly available in the fall. Depends on certification, shipping times, etc.

All this 4T vs. 2T Stella speculation is nothing but hot air and hooey at this point. This is a brand new, 2009 engine design versus one that hasn't changed much in at least 40 years. Can a 4T 150 be designed to be faster than a 2T? Hell, yeah. Is the 4T Stella going to be a pokey, lumbering beast? I seriously doubt it. As fast as the 2T? Probably? Faster? Mmmmaybe. I hear it definitely has a much higher top end.

As far as reliability goes… Every mechanic and dealer I've spoken with, many of whom have decades of experience with 2T P-series and their progeny, has said a Stella will not be as reliable as a Buddy. Period. It may not require more maintenance, but more things are going to wear out or break faster. Usually little things, like cables, but still… Scooters don't come much more reliable than a Buddy.

You want one bad don't you!

That's no secret. YES!

BuddyLicious · Post by **BuddyLicious** » Wed May 13, 2009 12:44 am

ericalm wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:Oh yeah...one other thing..4T Stellas don't exist ...yet.
Sure they exist. I've seen pictures and know reliable people who have ridden it. They're just not available in dealers.

I've heard these may be "early 2010s," possibly available in the fall. Depends on certification, shipping times, etc.

All this 4T vs. 2T Stella speculation is nothing but hot air and hooey at this point. This is a brand new, 2009 engine design versus one that hasn't changed much in at least 40 years. Can a 4T 150 be designed to be faster than a 2T? Hell, yeah. Is the 4T Stella going to be a pokey, lumbering beast? I seriously doubt it. As fast as the 2T? Probably? Faster? Mmmmaybe. I hear it definitely has a much higher top end.

As far as reliability goes… Every mechanic and dealer I've spoken with, many of whom have decades of experience with 2T P-series and their progeny, has said a Stella will not be as reliable as a Buddy. Period. It may not require more maintenance, but more things are going to wear out or break faster. Usually little things, like cables, but still… Scooters don't come much more reliable than a Buddy.

#1 what Eric said.

lmyers · Post by **lmyers** » Wed May 13, 2009 12:49 am

BuddyLicious wrote:PS-OP about your Avatar,are you taking a dump? Hemroids?

I think he's one of the kids from the documentary Devil's Playground.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed May 13, 2009 1:02 am

beeporama wrote:Halloweenie, you are in PA, so you can take the Motorcycle Safety Program course for free: http://www.pamsp.com/ Do that and see how you feel about a clutch.

Best advice in this whole thread. Take the MSF course and see how you take to a shifty. If it works for you - GET THAT STELLA !

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Wed May 13, 2009 1:24 am

BuddyRaton wrote:
Kaos wrote: Yes a Kitted Stella is faster than a stock Buddy. A Kitted Buddy is FAR faster than a Kitted Stella, especially since the clutch arms on a Stella's transmission will tear apart the clutch housing at around 70MPH. Trust me I've seen it personally. My Modded(Not yet kitted) 125cc can hit 88. I Stella 180cc doesn't hit that fast.

That being said, I LOVE both bikes, and would ride a Stella 2T or 4T..
There are was to prevent the"asploding"clutch issue.

It seems like the OP is really justl ooking for a commuter bike.

Oh yeah...one other thing..4T Stellas don't exist ...yet.

If your jonesing for a scooter 2010 is a long wait!

Ohh, do tell? The friend who's clutch asploded would like to know

Though he thinks he killed the motor too as it won't even turn over now, so the clutch may not be his biggest problem.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Wed May 13, 2009 2:00 am

BuddyLicious wrote:To the OP,I'd write down every pro and con of the Stella and which ever count is higher go with that.

The way to use a PRO/CON chart is to watch yourself as you fill it out. Pay attention to which side you're trying harder to add items to. Notice how you start to feel when one side or the other is ahead. That'll tell you which way you want to go with the decision. As soon as you figure that out, crumple up the piece of paper and go with your gut.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed May 13, 2009 12:36 pm

Kaos wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:
Kaos wrote: Yes a Kitted Stella is faster than a stock Buddy. A Kitted Buddy is FAR faster than a Kitted Stella, especially since the clutch arms on a Stella's transmission will tear apart the clutch housing at around 70MPH. Trust me I've seen it personally. My Modded(Not yet kitted) 125cc can hit 88. I Stella 180cc doesn't hit that fast.

That being said, I LOVE both bikes, and would ride a Stella 2T or 4T..
There are was to prevent the"asploding"clutch issue.

It seems like the OP is really justl ooking for a commuter bike.

Oh yeah...one other thing..4T Stellas don't exist ...yet.

If your jonesing for a scooter 2010 is a long wait!
Ohh, do tell? The friend who's clutch asploded would like to know
Though he thinks he killed the motor too as it won't even turn over now, so the clutch may not be his biggest problem.

You can take the clutch basket to a welder and have them place a band around it to keep it from expanding. SIP also sells stouter clutch baskets.

As with everything scooter related some think its a great idea and some think its a stupid idea.

The SIP basket on a cosa clutch has worked well for me.

Here is some info from bbs

http://www.scooterbbs.com/bbs/dcboard.p ... ype=search

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Wed May 13, 2009 2:20 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:
Kaos wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote: There are was to prevent the"asploding"clutch issue.

It seems like the OP is really justl ooking for a commuter bike.

Oh yeah...one other thing..4T Stellas don't exist ...yet.

If your jonesing for a scooter 2010 is a long wait!
Ohh, do tell? The friend who's clutch asploded would like to know
Though he thinks he killed the motor too as it won't even turn over now, so the clutch may not be his biggest problem.
You can take the clutch basket to a welder and have them place a band around it to keep it from expanding. SIP also sells stouter clutch baskets.

As with everything scooter related some think its a great idea and some think its a stupid idea.

The SIP basket on a cosa clutch has worked well for me.

Here is some info from bbs

http://www.scooterbbs.com/bbs/dcboard.p ... ype=search

Awesome, thanks!

Halloweenie · Post by **Halloweenie** » Wed May 13, 2009 11:30 pm

You can't see it well but my god is growling so I am growling, my wife thought it was cute... Thanks for all the advice, there was a lot mentioned I did not know. Oh, and I will be taking the Motorcycle Safety Course this summer!

djelliott · Post by **djelliott** » Thu May 14, 2009 1:05 am

That dog has a heck of a shaggy head of red hair.

johnre · Post by **johnre** » Thu May 14, 2009 2:25 am

It doesn't matter what you buy because I'll bet you will have more than one scooter. If you really want a Stella then buy one. Have you thought about picking up a used one? If you are mechanically inclined you will have no trouble with a Stella. I bought a used one because I too couldn't resist the urge to tinker. These machines are not that complicated. I took my Stella apart, custom painted it and am in the process of putting it back together with new floor rails, chrome and such. My twist & go is great too. So buy whichever one you want then consider used for the other one. I'll be looking for my 3rd scooter later this summer. Lots of great machines on Craigslist!

Post by **ericalm** » Thu May 14, 2009 2:33 am

Have we talked you out of it yet?

You came to the wrong place to be talked out of a scooter!

KCScooterDude · Post by **KCScooterDude** » Thu May 14, 2009 3:44 am

Okay, I'm going to totally get slammed here, but I think it needs to be said.

The Stella is too expensive for what it is. For $500 more (and probably less, because I'm quoting MSRP) you can buy a Ninja 250R and for $300 more you can get into a 250cc Suzuki motorcycle. These are virtually bulletproof Japanese motorcycles that will last tens of thousands of miles more than a Stella, the R and D of which was paid for by Vespa decades ago. Though the Ninja is not, some of these bikes are fuel injected too.

Don't get me wrong. I think the Stella is a great scooter, for maybe $2,899, not $3,599.

And demand is not the issue. The Ninja 250R is the number one selling motorcycle in the world. Loss leader? Maybe they are not making a ton on the Ninjas, but they are not losing money.

When you flame me for this opinion, and you will, please remember I'm a Genuine lover, not a hater. I just think the price is outrageous. Remember, I'm on your side.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu May 14, 2009 5:31 am

KCScooterDude wrote:Okay, I'm going to totally get slammed here, but I think it needs to be said.

The Stella is too expensive for what it is. For $500 more (and probably less, because I'm quoting MSRP) you can buy a Ninja 250R and for $300 more you can get into a 250cc Suzuki motorcycle. These are virtually bulletproof Japanese motorcycles that will last tens of thousands of miles more than a Stella, the R and D of which was paid for by Vespa decades ago. Though the Ninja is not, some of these bikes are fuel injected too.

Don't get me wrong. I think the Stella is a great scooter, for maybe $2,899, not $3,599.

And demand is not the issue. The Ninja 250R is the number one selling motorcycle in the world. Loss leader? Maybe they are not making a ton on the Ninjas, but they are not losing money.

When you flame me for this opinion, and you will, please remember I'm a Genuine lover, not a hater. I just think the price is outrageous. Remember, I'm on your side.

I'll tell you one thing I sure don't want: a Ninja 250. There are many motorcycles I like, but the Ninja's just not my thing; I wouldn't ever ride one regardless of price or value. If all I wanted was something economical to ride around on or the most CC's for their dollar, that would be a different matter. The comparison is pretty loose, though—two very different machines with different appeal.

People buy Stellas for the same reason they buy, for example, Mini Coopers (which many also say is overpriced). With the Stella, though, the experience of riding and ownership is even more unique. It's about nostalgia, fun, style, appreciation for a classic design and having a warranty.

But fair price is determined by the market. The Stella sells well (for what it is) and it'll be a big seller (for a year or so at least!) when it debuts in California.

KCScooterDude · Post by **KCScooterDude** » Thu May 14, 2009 1:57 pm

ericalm wrote:
KCScooterDude wrote:Okay, I'm going to totally get slammed here, but I think it needs to be said.

The Stella is too expensive for what it is. For $500 more (and probably less, because I'm quoting MSRP) you can buy a Ninja 250R and for $300 more you can get into a 250cc Suzuki motorcycle. These are virtually bulletproof Japanese motorcycles that will last tens of thousands of miles more than a Stella, the R and D of which was paid for by Vespa decades ago. Though the Ninja is not, some of these bikes are fuel injected too.

Don't get me wrong. I think the Stella is a great scooter, for maybe $2,899, not $3,599.

And demand is not the issue. The Ninja 250R is the number one selling motorcycle in the world. Loss leader? Maybe they are not making a ton on the Ninjas, but they are not losing money.

When you flame me for this opinion, and you will, please remember I'm a Genuine lover, not a hater. I just think the price is outrageous. Remember, I'm on your side.
I'll tell you one thing I sure don't want: a Ninja 250. There are many motorcycles I like, but the Ninja's just not my thing; I wouldn't ever ride one regardless of price or value. If all I wanted was something economical to ride around on or the most CC's for their dollar, that would be a different matter. The comparison is pretty loose, though—two very different machines with different appeal.

People buy Stellas for the same reason they buy, for example, Mini Coopers (which many also say is overpriced). With the Stella, though, the experience of riding and ownership is even more unique. It's about nostalgia, fun, style, appreciation for a classic design and having a warranty.

But fair price is determined by the market. The Stella sells well (for what it is) and it'll be a big seller (for a year or so at least!) when it debuts in California.

While the Ninja might not be your style (nor is it mine), both the Ninja and Stella are iconic. I think it's actually a good MC to contrast with the Stella. On the one hand, you have the Stella, with it's 25-year-old styling and technology versus a newly designed, fully loaded standard motorcycle (the 250R is a sport bike only in looks). Both also have body work, so that can't be a reason for the price difference. The Stella's R&D was paid for decades ago. Kawasaki (maybe only second to BMW in motorcycle innovation) invests heavily in R&D and the new Ninja's development costs still have to be figured into the price. Yet for only $400 more (and probably less) you get state-of-the-art versus yesterday's technology. To find a scooter with the technology and quality of the Ninja you are probably looking at a Vespa 250 or 300. Please? $6k? Granted, we are talking fuel injection versus carburation, but that's rediculous.

I base my comments my general frustration that scooters cost too much compared to motorcycles and what you get for the money. I have a 150cc Blur and and a 1980s 550cc motorcycle. Neither does everything I need. A 250 to 400cc scooter or motorcycle would be perfect for what I need (A commuter that gets good fuel economy, but can handle short freeway stints), but the cost of scooters is driving me toward motorcycles.

oryx · Post by **oryx** » Thu May 14, 2009 2:24 pm

the ninja and the stella & buddy are two totally different beasts. i agree the ninja 250 is a great bike, my husband loves his, only complaint - it has no storage.

that being said, i don't think someone interested in a scooter especially a shifty is going to be swayed into a sportbike. if you like the stella, get it or you'll probably end up with buyer's remorse that you didn't get what your heart is set on. At the end of the day, is a couple hundred dollars really that big of a deal to stop you from getting what you really want?

honestly, since i got my scooter, i haven't ridden my husband's ninja at all. (he's lucky if he can even get me off the BJ for him to ride the scoot). If anything, I'm looking to get another scoot (80s Honda Passport)!

Definitely take the MSF course! We took it before we got any two-wheeled vehicle!

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Thu May 14, 2009 2:28 pm

In a market economy, the price of an item is based primarily on what people will pay for it. If enough people are able and willing to pay $3600 for a Stella, that's an appropriate price for it, and Genuine would be insane to lower the price... unless they were sure that the increased volume would be enough to increase their profits overall. Let's suppose for the sake of example* that they see $1000 profit on each bike they sell at the current price. If they dropped the price by $700 as suggested, they'd only make $300 on each one.** So even if they sold three times as many of them, they'd still end up making less money. (And if their profit is already less than $700, they'd lose money on each one, and you generally can't make up for that in volume.) So the current price presumably makes sense to them, and if it doesn't make sense to any specific buyer... there are other bikes.

*I'm making up an easy number to do the math with. Knowing nothing about manufacturing, I have no idea whatsoever what their profit margins are.
**I'm also treating the company and the dealer network as a single entity, again to keep it simple.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Thu May 14, 2009 2:30 pm

I really don't think the price comparisons are valid. Yes I agree modern Vespas are pricey. But to compare a new Vespa or Blur with a MC that is almost 30 years really isn't valid. A Vespa scooter of the same year can be had for a couple of grand.

I think that the Buddy is about the best bang for the buck you can get right now.

And with a MC vs scooter? All I can say to that is

WHY RED IS RED!

laxer · Post by **laxer** » Thu May 14, 2009 4:12 pm

I can see where the frustration comes from and I've asked the question before: Why can we get a 250cc motorcycle for less or the same as a 150cc scooter? The answer is that people are willing to pay for nostalgia, style, etc. However, just because people WILL pay extra for those things doesn't change the fact that they COULD be less expensive, which is frustrating.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu May 14, 2009 5:10 pm

laxer wrote:I can see where the frustration comes from and I've asked the question before: Why can we get a 250cc motorcycle for less or the same as a 150cc scooter? The answer is that people are willing to pay for nostalgia, style, etc. However, just because people WILL pay extra for those things doesn't change the fact that they COULD be less expensive, which is frustrating.

That's the capitalist market economy for ya.