Buddy International 150/Blackjack top speed??

pyrocpu · Post by **pyrocpu** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:59 am

Just curious, and not to sound like a total noob...

...but...

What might be a "typical" indicated mph / actual mph might one expect out of a bone-stock International 150 and/or a Blackjack??

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:11 am

There are a lot of factors—rider weight, riding style, weather, tire inflation, maintenance, engine break in, etc. but you can cruise at around 65 in most conditions.

Top speed will exceed 70 or higher, but that's usually not sustainable.

There are those who will, of course, say that they can cruise at higher speeds and that they hit some great peak top speed, but I'm averaging here and trying to give realistic speeds for most riders.

hairball · Post by **hairball** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:08 pm

I have a blackjack and the speedo shows 65, I went out with a GPS and it showed 5 mph less.

Realistically, 60 mph, I weigh 160 and no hills.

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:06 pm

It’s surprising some speeds claimed – for me I cruise around 55 bmph and can reach 65 bmph, and down hill, with the wind, a little faster, but, I have a low rear drive ratio. The International/Blackjack should go a little faster, and as things loosen up even greater speeds will be found.
My speedo is about 5mph slower as well, confirmed with a GPS.

kculp · Post by **kculp** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:15 pm

This whole thing about speed is somewhat fascinating. On a scooter, you do not want to go 65 mph. Maybe for a short distance, but the reason we like our 150 cc is the acceleration and keeping up with the traffic in the 40-45 mph lane. If you are a lighter rider, the 125 cc will do just fine too. I think this is where you need to decide if the extra cost is worth it.

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:20 pm

kculp:
I agree with you – for Christ sake, these are scooters – around town transportation; and sometimes for the brave long adventures, but they are really town transportation.
My scooter has been kitted and will keep up with any traffic, even aggressive commuter drivers, up to about 45 – 50 mph - no top speed

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:43 pm

kculp wrote:This whole thing about speed is somewhat fascinating. On a scooter, you do not want to go 65 mph. Maybe for a short distance, but the reason we like our 150 cc is the acceleration and keeping up with the traffic in the 40-45 mph lane. If you are a lighter rider, the 125 cc will do just fine too. I think this is where you need to decide if the extra cost is worth it.

Speak for yourself. I regularly do 65+ with no problems on my modded 125. It rides about the same as it does at lower speeds.

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:04 pm

Kaos;
I gotta admit: sometimes I do wish my scooter did go faster

pyrocpu · Post by **pyrocpu** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:18 pm

Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking at a 150 as a drag racer or anything! I was just wondering if need be, a short 2mi stretch on a lightly travelled highway (no surface streets cross the river) might be OK is all!

Having said that, does a Blackjack really handle that much differently than say, the International 150?

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:29 pm

pyrocpu wrote:Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking at a 150 as a drag racer or anything! I was just wondering if need be, a short 2mi stretch on a lightly travelled highway (no surface streets cross the river) might be OK is all!

Having said that, does a Blackjack really handle that much differently than say, the International 150?

It will a bit. Its got different suspension than the Internationals.

mojobuddy70cc · Post by **mojobuddy70cc** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:21 pm

,,
GPS speed and or mapping is off by a few feet and has variations by nature.
Military GPS is spot as in "put one down yer stove pipe" spot on!!,, so what makes you think your GPS reading is true and the final word on speed?
you are probably closer but just guessing still.
If you want to really know your speed try this>
go to a "odometer readings" posted auto shop, they usually do this for speeding ticket contesting in court, for a fee they will also calibrate your speedo, that is part of the deal. they use a dynamo to test it, true vs. your reading, so that is the clinical approach, riding is for sure more fun.
the reason i say this i spent 21 years in the merchant marines working on ships, we only had govt GPS, unless the navy came on and installed one of their units, ( it`s classified),, but give or take 6-12 ft., but if you are looking for a street x-ing no big deal, it you are in the middle of the ocean you deal wif " set and drift",, so your speed on gps may be getting some "set and drift" variation,,

Taz · Post by **Taz** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:44 pm

Even taking into account max degradation of the signal of the GPS for civilian use, it is FAR more accurate than the poor excuse for a speedo on the Buddy. I have used TSD calcs AND the GPS and both same the same thing, the stock Buddy speedo is a piece of junk when it comes to accuracy.

In real terms, my GPS and calcs repeatedly say my 150 Buddy does 62-64 REAL mph at top speed. I am about 220 lbs. This is on level ground an d is not wind assisted or drafting anyone. My Kymco Agility under the same conditions does 59 mph.

My DREAMometer on the Buddy will over 70mph and typically about 72-75. I totally give up on it. I use the GPS 100% now. I have verified the readings against radar as well and the GPS is dead nuts on every time!

mojobuddy70cc · Post by **mojobuddy70cc** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:57 pm

,,playing devil`s advo, always seems to work, i got pulled for speeding last week the cop said i was "flyin thru there" i had on my ipod and never saw him or the lights flashin, he pulled his honker>horn and i stopped, he said " are you sure that`s a 50cc??" i said "yes sure it is, just a modified pipe" i got a warning but he did`nt tell me how fast i was goin` and i did`nt ask.
,,in a round about way, if i would have got the ticket i would have gone to the odometer place and get the cert to take to court ( they charge $60 and court cost is $120 plus a $35 speeding fine),that will hold up.,,pressing save on your GPS,,well not so sure but you could try it.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:39 pm

I just finished a very long entry in our forthcoming FAQ section on speedometers and inaccuracy. The short gist is that this type of mechanical eddy-current-based speedo is going to be inaccurate in all 2-wheeled vehicles. A quick Google search will reveal discussion on this topic n Honda, BMW, Harley, Vespa, Kymco and other forums and sites. There are a number of reasons for the error, but ]this explains one of the primary causes (bold added for emphasis):

All speedometers must be calibrated to make sure the torque created by the magnetic field accurately reflects the speed of the car. This calibration must take into account several factors, including the ratios of the gears in the drive cable, the final drive ratio in the differential and the diameter of the tires. All of these factors affect the overall speed of the vehicle. Take tire size, for example. When an axle makes one complete turn, the tire it's connected to makes one complete revolution. But a tire with a larger diameter will travel farther than a wheel with a smaller diameter. That's because the distance a tire covers in one revolution is equal to its circumference. So a tire with a diameter of 20 inches will cover about 62.8 inches of ground in one revolution. A tire with a diameter of 30 inches will cover more ground -- about 94.2 inches.

While car tires are essentially flat, motorcycle tires are curved. When you lean the scooter, you're altering the diameter of the tire as calibrated. This isn't the sole source of speedometer error (again, there are a number of additional factors), but it helps explain why precise readings are unlikely. (Two-wheel dynamics also throw off GPS, though the error is probably much smaller. I don't know if the pricey motorcycle-specific units have gyroscopes to account for roll angle.)

If you calibrate the speedo, you may lower the degree of error or even reverse it (it will read too slow instead of too fast). IMHO, it's not worth it. Taking 10% off on the fly is easy and gives you a fair enough approximation.

You can adjust the magnet in the speedo, but it's a bit of a cheat—essentially you force it to read 10% (or however much) slower than it would unadjusted. You're not actually improving accuracy, just "tricking" it into displaying something that may be closer to actual speed. (Admittedly, there's a pretty fine distinction between an accurate reading and an accurate display.) The process is involved, a pain in the butt, and may not even work so may not be worth the effort.

pyrocpu · Post by **pyrocpu** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:12 am

If a motorcycle/scoot is reading 10% optimistic, then so would the odometer. So wouldn't an odometer reading 10,000mi mean that the scoot has but 9000mi on it? If so, that's just not cool.

Is there an easy "hack" to make the speedo read properly?

For Taz--if your Buddy 150 really does 62-64 real GPS-verified MPH, is your scoot modified in any manner?

Post by **ericalm** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:04 am

pyrocpu wrote:If a motorcycle/scoot is reading 10% optimistic, then so would the odometer. So wouldn't an odometer reading 10,000mi mean that the scoot has but 9000mi on it? If so, that's just not cool.

Actually, the odo and speedo are separate. There's some discrepancy in the odo, but not as much.

pyrocpu wrote:Is there an easy "hack" to make the speedo read properly?

Sort of. From the forthcoming FAQ again:

Calibration, Solutions…?
There are places that do speedometer calibration as well as some devices which claim to fix errant speedos. We have no information on whether any of this is effective or whether it would work on a scooter.

Here's one obsessed man's DIY solution:
http://home.jtan.com/~joe/speedo.htm
(It's for a BMW motorcycle, but I think the same principle should apply. Also, this method of calibration doesn't account for lean and curvature so is still imprecise.)

Best DIY solution for those who are determined to have an accurate reading:
Get your hands on a GPS. Go for a ride and take numerous speedometer vs. GPS readings and different speeds. If you're really anal (instead of just kind of anal), try it at different times of day, in different settings, at different temperatures and on various road surfaces. Create a table with your findings. Average the discrepancies in readings at various speeds.

Create an overlay for your speedometer with average "actual" speeds for each 10 or 5mph marker. This can be anything from a custom die-cut vinyl decal to go inside your headset on top of the stock speedometer to a few pieces of masking tape scrawled on with a Sharpie.

Now go out and ride!

pyrocpu · Post by **pyrocpu** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:13 am

I see. There is a way, but not particularly easy. Sigh.

Not to take this even more off topic, but what exactly ARE the differences between a Buddy International 150 and a Blackjack?

From what I can discern through the genuinescooters.com website, I see:
* Colors, obviously
* F&R suspension
* FR brake disc & caliper
* Implied differences in the variator
* Implied difference in the carb jets (what about the carb itself?)

Long story short, I'm starting to draw the conclusion that the Buddy International 150 and especially the Blackjack, are second only in price to a Vespa LX 150 and S 150. OK, and the new Honda SH150i. Yamaha (Vino, OK, that's a 125cc), Aprilia, Piaggio Fly 150, Kymco, SYM 150cc class--they're all less! Why a Buddy then? (devil's advocate here...

)

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:19 pm

pyrocpu wrote:I see. There is a way, but not particularly easy. Sigh.

Not to take this even more off topic, but what exactly ARE the differences between a Buddy International 150 and a Blackjack?

From what I can discern through the genuinescooters.com website, I see:
* Colors, obviously
* F&R suspension
* FR brake disc & caliper
* Implied differences in the variator
* Implied difference in the carb jets (what about the carb itself?)

Long story short, I'm starting to draw the conclusion that the Buddy International 150 and especially the Blackjack, are second only in price to a Vespa LX 150 and S 150. OK, and the new Honda SH150i. Yamaha (Vino, OK, that's a 125cc), Aprilia, Piaggio Fly 150, Kymco, SYM 150cc class--they're all less! Why a Buddy then? (devil's advocate here... )

The jets and variator are the same.

The Blackjack gets a Prima exhaust and a different
single rider seat as well.

The Blackjack stock is also a fair bit faster than an LX 150/S150 as well as the Vino, Piaggio Fly, the Kymco's and the SYM 150's as well.

The Internationals are actually a bit faster as well, though the Blackjack is the faster of the two bikes.

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:05 pm

Also, the Genuine scooters get some of the best fuel economy on the market in their displacement range.

pyrocpu · Post by **pyrocpu** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:29 pm

I didn't think the Blackjack came w/ the Prima pipe--thought that had to be an additional accessory piece one would get after/during purchase at the dealer?

I guess then my question would be is if the engine, carb, and jetting are the same w/ the International and Blackjack, how is it that the Blackjack can be faster? The pipe alone? I suppose what I don't understand is what the differences are...

Running off to the Vespa dealer while I'm on vacation here in Seattle, then heading to a Genuine store...

pyrocpu · Post by **pyrocpu** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:13 am

OK.

Went to a store that sold both Genuine & Vespa.

And...

I can't justify the roughly $1400 OTD price difference between a Buddy International 150 and the Vespa LX150. $1400 buys lots of stuff: another 50" TV, wheels/tires for the car, a lower-priced living room set... There's no question the quality of the Vespa is amazing; however, having said that, the LX150 just felt "bigger" to me, sitting in the showroom. I want something more lithe, more nimble. Back to the International 150 Pamplona!

Then the dealer fired up the Blackjack. Sigh...
However, I again come back to the inquiry about top speed: the Genuine dealer said he's gotten a bone-stock Blackjack to 70bmph on the flats; Motorcycle USA http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/715/3387/ ... eview.aspx says mid-50s only.

Well, which is it? Surely someone has one and can report? To be fair, the above linked review said the rider's 220lbs--that's 80lbs more than me...

Can't decide: International 150 or Blackjack--please chime in!

Dean F · Post by **Dean F** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:33 am

Stock 150 that is well broken in using synthetic lubricants and I can easily cruise at 65-70 BMPH on the flats. My weight is 215 and am 6 feet tall. I hope this helps. I honestly think you probably don't want to go any faster on 10 inch wheels!

Guff · Post by **Guff** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:01 am

How are the 150s for climbing hills? I live in Central PA with lots of them! I am also a larger rider (220 pounds)

rvajma · Post by **rvajma** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:23 pm

I have a Blackjack with just about 1900 miles. I ride in the 55 - 65 bmph on a regular basis. This is on backroads and short jaunts on the downtown expressway here in Richmond. I feel comfortable staying with, and passing some traffic on these roads, but not quite enough to take my scoot on I-95 or 64, where average traffic runs at 70 to 80. The expressway is very smooth pavement, and the only time I may feel any instability would be going over the river on windy days.

This being said, at around 1700 miles, I had the NCY cylinder kit and transmission put in to increase performance. I was looking for a bit more punch in the 30 - 60 range, and thus far am pretty happy with my mods. I am waiting a bit more time to break it in and really push it, but will post my results.

pyrocpu · Post by **pyrocpu** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:39 am

Granted, we're not talking apples-to-apples here (humidity, elevation, rider weight, etc.), but am I reading this correctly: International 150 has a higher top speed than the Blackjack?

I'm not too concerned about acceleration, just top end & maneuverability...

Post by **Lostmycage** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:19 am

pyrocpu wrote:Granted, we're not talking apples-to-apples here (humidity, elevation, rider weight, etc.), but am I reading this correctly: International 150 has a higher top speed than the Blackjack?

I'm not too concerned about acceleration, just top end & maneuverability...

Nope, the exact opposite actually.

The international and the Blackjack have the same exact motor. The difference is that the Blackjack comes with the Prima pipe (it's available as an accessory for the International 150s and the 125s). I still have yet to hear a solid answer on what weights the BJ has in it's variator - though I suspect that they're the same as the Int'l 150s.

The BJ does better at higher speeds because of the free-flowing exhaust allows the powerband to shift higher in the RPM range, which translates to more power at faster speeds.

The 125 and the BJ/Int'ls all get about the same top speed stock. This has a lot to do with rider weight, aerodynamics, elevation (as in uphill/downhill/flat) the gearing, variator and, to a lesser extent, the engine torque.

Once you start modifying any of those factors, the story changes completely.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:48 am

Lostmycage wrote:
pyrocpu wrote:Granted, we're not talking apples-to-apples here (humidity, elevation, rider weight, etc.), but am I reading this correctly: International 150 has a higher top speed than the Blackjack?

I'm not too concerned about acceleration, just top end & maneuverability...
Nope, the exact opposite actually.

The international and the Blackjack have the same exact motor. The difference is that the Blackjack comes with the Prima pipe (it's available as an accessory for the International 150s and the 125s). I still have yet to hear a solid answer on what weights the BJ has in it's variator - though I suspect that they're the same as the Int'l 150s.

The BJ does better at higher speeds because of the free-flowing exhaust allows the powerband to shift higher in the RPM range, which translates to more power at faster speeds.

The 125 and the BJ/Int'ls all get about the same top speed stock. This has a lot to do with rider weight, aerodynamics, elevation (as in uphill/downhill/flat) the gearing, variator and, to a lesser extent, the engine torque.

Once you start modifying any of those factors, the story changes completely.

Same weights, only performance difference is the pipe.

EDIT: Only ENGINE performance difference that is.... Suspension and brakes and whatnot....

Post by **Lostmycage** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:52 am

I suspected as much.

pyrocpu · Post by **pyrocpu** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:39 am

OK.

I've decided.

Blackjack it is. Went to my local dealer (I'm back from vacation now), and they're super cool, no pressure-type of guys. Went to the Vespa dealer too, and while the guy was nice, again, I'm just coming back to the point where the Vespa is SO much more, plus the larger frame of the LX150 just isn't working for me. Yes, also looked at the Fly 150, but it was just rather meh.

As such, I need to put some stuff on Craigslist and fill up the piggy bank. Then it's off to the MSF course, then to the DMV for the motorcycle endorsement, THEN trying to sell the wife on the idea.

I've more obstacles in front of me!

laxer · Post by **laxer** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:54 am

pyrocpu wrote:OK.

I've decided.

Blackjack it is. Went to my local dealer (I'm back from vacation now), and they're super cool, no pressure-type of guys. Went to the Vespa dealer too, and while the guy was nice, again, I'm just coming back to the point where the Vespa is SO much more, plus the larger frame of the LX150 just isn't working for me. Yes, also looked at the Fly 150, but it was just rather meh.

As such, I need to put some stuff on Craigslist and fill up the piggy bank. Then it's off to the MSF course, then to the DMV for the motorcycle endorsement, THEN trying to sell the wife on the idea.

I've more obstacles in front of me!

You could always try reversing the order...I've found that it's much easier to get the wife to agree to let me KEEP something than to GET something...

rvajma · Post by **rvajma** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:30 pm

Ask forgiveness is always easier. My wife met me for lunch the day I got my Blackjack, and said "Why do you have a motorcycle helmet?". Spring it on her in a public place and she will be reluctant to make a scene, then you can grovel and explain the merits of buying to her at home.

pyrocpu · Post by **pyrocpu** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:46 pm

Haha! You guys are funny! Not a bad idea!

... except ...

Your wives don't withhold, do they?

Although... in this case for the Blackjack (not to be abbreviated to "BJ" for the sake of this particular context, heh), it might actually be worth it...

Hmm...

Post by **Lostmycage** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:15 pm

Good luck with that. Scootering's great and all, but marriage is a little more serious. I can talk my wife into anything reasonable if I go to her with facts and reasons and we discuss it. Sure, I don't always get what I want, but I get everything that I need. And that's a two way street.

laxer · Post by **laxer** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:36 pm

pyrocpu wrote:Haha! You guys are funny! Not a bad idea!

... except ...

Your wives don't withhold, do they?

Although... in this case for the Blackjack (not to be abbreviated to "BJ" for the sake of this particular context, heh), it might actually be worth it...

Hmm...

Nothing wrong with having a Blackjack and having nothing but knuckle-babies for awhile. She'll forgive you eventually...

pyrocpu · Post by **pyrocpu** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:26 am

Knuckle babies... LOL... took me a good minute of head scratching (don't read into that one too much) to figure that one out...

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:01 am

Watch out, or the curly tails are going to poke through your britches.

Who Dat Ninja?! · Post by **Who Dat Ninja?!** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:02 pm

74 on the speedo....regular...no downhill.

I am 5'8"...170 lbs.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:19 pm

74 Buddy MPH on the speedo is about 60 real world MPH on my scooter. On our Amerivespa ride there were stretches where I had the speedo buried (80+) on my St. Tropez and that was GPS'd at 71MPH, 72MPH for a second. This speed was also verified by a DOT "Your Speed Is..." radar sign. A Blackjack with the Prima pipe installed will get a bit beyond that speed but it will cost you MPG. My stock St. Tropez was getting roughly twice the MPG as the Blackjack (Prima pipe installed) we were riding with. The rider was a bit bigger and heavier than me though...

I'm going to write a full post about the ride and scooter performance when I get a second and have caught up with things here... probably this weekend...

Who Dat Ninja?! · Post by **Who Dat Ninja?!** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:40 am

I have been noticing that. I dont know how the fuel gauge works or what it is measuring. What I do know is that my needlerolls from full to empty after about 60 miles of riding. I fill up and I am only adding about 1.2 gallons of gas. What happened to my 80 plus mpg. I mean, I cant complain about 60 to 70, but what conditions were they testing under to get their 90?!?!

Absurd...I just wish I actually knew when I was close to empty rather than riding paranoid while my tank is happily half full.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:00 am

pyrocpu wrote:However, I again come back to the inquiry about top speed: the Genuine dealer said he's gotten a bone-stock Blackjack to 70bmph on the flats; Motorcycle USA http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/715/3387/ ... eview.aspx says mid-50s only.

Well, which is it? Surely someone has one and can report? To be fair, the above linked review said the rider's 220lbs--that's 80lbs more than me...

For the record: The scoot Motorcycle USA was testing probably hadn't been broken in or, if so, not well. But having just completed a long ride alongside Buddy Int'ls and Black Jacks, I can definitely say that they can do as much as 70 (bone stock).

Skootz Kabootz wrote:74 Buddy MPH on the speedo is about 60 real world MPH on my scooter. On our Amerivespa ride there were stretches where I had the speedo buried (80+) on my St. Tropez and that was GPS'd at 71MPH, 72MPH for a second. This speed was also verified by a DOT "Your Speed Is..." radar sign. A Blackjack with the Prima pipe installed will get a bit beyond that speed but it will cost you MPG. My stock St. Tropez was getting roughly twice the MPG as the Blackjack (Prima pipe installed) we were riding with. The rider was a bit bigger and heavier than me though...

I'm going to write a full post about the ride and scooter performance when I get a second and have caught up with things here... probably this weekend...

Yup, on a flat and smooth surface, Skootz's St. Tropez topped out at around 70 actual, WOT and fully tucked, no windshield. He lost a lot of ground on hills. (This is not a criticism. Skootz had to endure a much more difficult ride back because we spent so much time on the freeways. His was the only 150 on the return trip!)

So I'm standing by my original post—you can cruise at 65 and, in the right circumstances, get it up to 70.

oryx · Post by **oryx** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:09 am

Skootz Kabootz wrote: My stock St. Tropez was getting roughly twice the MPG as the Blackjack (Prima pipe installed) we were riding with. The rider was a bit bigger and heavier than me though...

The blackjack was getting below 40 mpg?? dang! really?? (i don't know your actual mpg on the ride, just looking at your fuelly tracker.)

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:18 am

oryx wrote:
Skootz Kabootz wrote: My stock St. Tropez was getting roughly twice the MPG as the Blackjack (Prima pipe installed) we were riding with. The rider was a bit bigger and heavier than me though...
The blackjack was getting below 40 mpg?? dang! really?? (i don't know your actual mpg on the ride, just looking at your fuelly tracker.)

I was worried about my MPGs on the trip—my mods suck gas and spit it out.

The Black Jack, though… Keep in mind a lot of this was very fast and demanding riding with a lot of throttle work. Rider was at least 6' 3", around 220#. He had to fuel up every 65-70 miles. He wasn't running the tank dry by any means. But, yeah, it's a gas hog. We couldn't really figure out why. The only real variable was the pipe. This scoot had about 600 miles on it when we set off, I think.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:35 am

wow, that's really surprising. My Buddy is a lot more modded than a stock blackjack, and I rarely gets less than 90mpg. I can see it getting lower for all WOT though.

oryx · Post by **oryx** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:39 am

i run my BJ hard everyday, there are some big hills here in bham, and i run WOT alot. i'm up to 2200 mi, and get around 85 mpg a tank. but i don't weigh 220# either.... i don't think it's the pipe or the other perf accessories on the BJ are the factor, i think it might be rider size...

Post by **Lostmycage** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:02 am

ericalm wrote:
oryx wrote:
Skootz Kabootz wrote: My stock St. Tropez was getting roughly twice the MPG as the Blackjack (Prima pipe installed) we were riding with. The rider was a bit bigger and heavier than me though...
The blackjack was getting below 40 mpg?? dang! really?? (i don't know your actual mpg on the ride, just looking at your fuelly tracker.)
I was worried about my MPGs on the trip—my mods suck gas and spit it out.

The Black Jack, though… Keep in mind a lot of this was very fast and demanding riding with a lot of throttle work. Rider was at least 6' 3", around 220#. He had to fuel up every 65-70 miles. He wasn't running the tank dry by any means. But, yeah, it's a gas hog. We couldn't really figure out why. The only real variable was the pipe. This scoot had about 600 miles on it when we set off, I think.

600 miles isn't really broken in fully yet. I think the rider will have better mpg once it's broken in. That's all I have for a contribution, lol. It does seem a little weird. None of these bikes should be getting that bad gas mileage.

dakotamouse · Post by **dakotamouse** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:24 am

I checked my mpg with my first fill up and I got 80 mpg. I haven't checked it since. Doesn't matter anymore..... the smiles per gallon are immeasurable!!!!

laxer · Post by **laxer** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:42 am

oryx wrote:i run my BJ hard everyday...

Double Entendre anyone?

pyrocpu · Post by **pyrocpu** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:51 am

65-70 real MPH...

I do hope though, better than 40mpg can be had on a broken-in scoot. That's just plain dismal for just a pipe! We agreed that the jetting, rollers, variator, etc (basically the whole drivetrain) is no different from an International 150 & the Blackjack, right?

I NEED THIS SCOOT!

I've been posting Craigslist ads on just about everything I own prior to my wedding two years ago, to try and raise funds for the Blackjack...

I thought about auctioning off the pooch; wifey wasn't amused...

Anyone interested in car parts or Nikon camera equipment?

dakotamouse · Post by **dakotamouse** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:20 am

laxer wrote:
oryx wrote:i run my BJ hard everyday...
Double Entendre anyone?

ummmm.....you saw it too!

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:26 am

oryx wrote:
Skootz Kabootz wrote: My stock St. Tropez was getting roughly twice the MPG as the Blackjack (Prima pipe installed) we were riding with. The rider was a bit bigger and heavier than me though...
The blackjack was getting below 40 mpg?? dang! really?? (i don't know your actual mpg on the ride, just looking at your fuelly tracker.)

My MPG varied depending on conditions - wind, hills etc, etc. Worst MPG was about 50, best about 82. Most of the riding was WOT or close to it. Definitely I was pushing the scooter pretty hard. When we gassed up, each time I asked about it, the Blackjack (with Prima pipe) was on empty while I was still at 1/2 a tank. It's not a precise or scientific method of determining exact MPG for the Blackjack but the trend was consistent throughout the trip.

For my scooter, I keep track of odometer readings each time I fill up (pretty anal, I know...). I don't know how the Buddy's odometer accuracy varies the actual milage travelled and thus the real MPG but whatever the case, my numbers have been recorded accurately and consistently...

Modern Buddy

Buddy International 150/Blackjack top speed??

Buddy International 150/Blackjack top speed??

just to toss a lil water on gps

point taken on gps

74 on the speedo

MPG's do suffer!!!