Buddy on the freeway and bridge, and top speed

danix · Post by **danix** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:58 pm

I am new to scooters, but not motorcycles.

Yesterday, I decided to be bold (stupid?) and try riding into SF from my home in the East Bay. I rode across 680, 24, 580/880 and onto I80, over the Bay Bridge.

Good:
- I didn't get killed.

Bad:
- The Buddy does not belong on the freeway for more than an exit or two. Stability was OK, even with a crosswind, but it just doesn't have the ability to keep up with traffic or anything left in reserve if you have to get the hell out of the way. You sit in the far right, and pray that no one hits you.
- The Buddy is very sensitive to grooves in the road and these odd 3-4" cuts that run in the direction of travel. I have no idea why they are there, but they suck.
- The Buddy has very little suspension travel, especially in the front. On bad roads, at 60+ (indicated), it's very uncomfortable as every shock makes it up your arms and shoulders.

Other notes:
- Indicated top speed was just over 70mph, on a slight downhill.
- Riding through the Caldecott Tunnel is eerie and yet this is one spot where you can keep up with traffic.
- Crossing the Bay Bridge from the East, I stayed in the far left, as I wanted the 5th St exit and knew I wouldn't be able to accelerate across if I had stayed on the right. People moved around me, as they had no choice. The speed limit on the bridge is 50mph anyway...
- I can see how people think the Buddy is fast, in urban traffic. The Buddy has almost enough pep for SF's hills, but could use a touch more.

All in all, I'm glad I tried it, but I would not do it again unless it was during a group ride.

Corsair · Post by **Corsair** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:14 pm

Now that took some guts to be able to try that. Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Hopefully the 177cc kit and pipe will give it that extra umph.

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:16 pm

If the speedlimit is over 55mph or has more than 2 lanes of traffic (in my direction), I try to avoid it. I have found that the more lanes a road has, the more is going on and the harder it is to see the cagers who might be coming at you.

Grooves can get you at even slower speeds, so you always need to pay attention to the road surface.

MapQuest has a handy-dandy "Avoid Highways" tool that can help you find new ways of getting around, or to find a route to somewhere new. Though good scooter bridges in big cities are often few and far between.

Glad you had and survived your adventure.

Corsair · Post by **Corsair** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:23 pm

sunshinen wrote: MapQuest has a handy-dandy "Avoid Highways" tool that can help you find new ways of getting around, or to find a route to somewhere new.

That feature never seems to work for me. They always end up putting an interstate or highway in the directions (and I've tried numerous times)

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:24 pm

You are a brave soul traveling on those roads with the Buddy!

AxeYrCat · Post by **AxeYrCat** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:50 pm

rajron wrote:You are a brave soul traveling on those roads with the Buddy!

Indeed!!

San Francisco · Post by **San Francisco** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:55 pm

How interesting. When another Member asked about commuting and
possibly riding on the interstate I opined that the Buddy did not belong on
the freeways. Plus, I'm not too sure, but I think the Buddy does NOT
meet the minimum CC size on California freeways if signs are posted.

Two other Members retorted that I was wrong. One even implied that my
words of caution indicated I did not have the balls nor the skills to ride a
scooter on the Bay Area freeways.

viewtopic.php?t=1168&start=40

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:58 pm

I am with you - the Buddy does not belong on the freeways - some think otherwise

San Francisco · Post by **San Francisco** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:11 pm

rajron wrote:I am with you - the Buddy does not belong on the freeways - some think otherwise

Many times I see those "some who think otherwise." Just the other day I
was in a car and five guys on superbikes [cheap rice rockets] rode in and
out of traffic. I think they were doing about 80 mph. Each had on the
identical "safety equipment."
All wore: white low top athletic shoes, blue jeans, and windbreakers.

mcwbyu82 · Post by **mcwbyu82** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:41 pm

wow what I ride. I am in Utah now but was born and raised in the East Bay (Alameda) and am familiar with all those roads. two questions: Coming out of the tunnel heading towards the city must have been a blast. That is quite a long steep downhiil. Did you really top out at just over 70? was the engine wound up pretty high?
2nd? On the way back how on earth did you make it up that same hill? What kind of speeds were you able to maintain?

JuliaGrace · Post by **JuliaGrace** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:46 pm

WOW.

You have far more bravery than I'll ever have.

I reached 60+ mph in Vegas in February (after the speedo passed 60, I was afraid to look down), but I'm still trying to work up to crossing the Golden Gate Bridge (speed limit of 45).

Cheers,
Julie

danix · Post by **danix** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:49 am

I think the CVT is the biggest speed limiter. That, and the aerodynamics.
I crouched down as far as I could to get to 70+, I think this was approaching the 24/680 split near Pleasant Hill.

Going uphill, the slowest I went was 50ish, climbing towards the eastbound Caldecott Tunnel. That was the one time I was really worried about traffic coming at me.

I'd be curious to swap Buddys for a ride with someone local to see if mine is any faster and less comfortable than yours. I have almost 5000 miles, so it's possible that my engine is just "looser".

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:29 am

The freeway is no place for a Buddy. It has barely enough poop to maintain the speed limit (if it's 55) and it has no reserve to power you out of trouble. The far right lane of a busy freeway is one of the most dangerous places for any two wheeler to travel. If you don't have the power to move out of the right lane you do not belong on that road. Seriously, you're risking your life doing this no matter how competent a rider you are. You still can't predict what those around you are about to do. And when that guy in the Hummer, on the phone, doing 30 above the limit veers from the left lane to the exit lane, you're in big trouble if you're in his way.

San Francisco · Post by **San Francisco** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:03 am

JuliaGrace wrote:WOW.
I'm still trying to work up to crossing the Golden Gate Bridge (speed limit of 45).

Cheers,
Julie

In 1997 I bought a 150 Honda Elite from someone in Mill Valley. Rather
than do the trailer thing I had my girlfriend stay behind me in the car while
I rode all the way back to SF in the slow lane.

I think I got the scooter up to about 55, but no more because the thing felt
like it was going to blast apart. I was NOT looking forward to the Golden
Gate Bridge.

When I got to the Bridge it was not too bad because the cars had to slow
down for the strictly enforced speed limit. And when crossing, the Honda
held up fine. The only thrill was crossing the metal grates that allow the
Bridge to flex.

Also, there was some wind, but it was not too bad.

Crossing the Bridge was safe enough that from then on I often would
cross it to ride my scooters around the Marin Headlands.

So as long as you stay in the slow lane, crossing the GG Bridge is no big
deal. Paying the $5 toll is more traumatic, IMHO. Gets my blood boiling.

Seems scooters should be allowed to pay $1.

ebcspace · Post by **ebcspace** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:18 am

the freeway can be a totally different environment than normal streets, because of the drafting effect (much of the wind factor has already been deflected by the cars on the road). this morning, I easily hit 70 mph on the way to work.

I usually take ground streets to work, but when I need to pick up a few minutes, will gladly hop on the freeway. for me, it's only for a few exits before I hit my offramp. trick is making sure the coast is clear first. (150 would be the (technical) legal CC's for freeway riding in CA)

I don't think hitting the highway on the buddy is for everyone. similar to some experiences in life that one may have... not for everybody. and the ride is not well ironed with the limited suspension. I'm just a WOT (wide-open-throttle), top-speed kind of person.

cruising at 65 at about 3/4 throttle behind a pickup going slower kept the potential top end down a bit most of the ride, taking it easy.

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:57 pm

I think it's good to remember that we are all ride in very different circumstances. One rider might start his commute on a gravel road, feels comfortable going as slow as 60 on the interstate, and has state road options, which is a very different thing than another who commutes in a big city with angry aggressive drivers on gargantuan, multi-lane highways.

A lot of our opinions are going to be based on our individual bodies and personalities, the driving conditions where we are located, our understanding of the conditions where the poster is located, and the nature of the post we are responding to.

Here, we are commiserating with finding ourselves in a situation beyond our comfort level. Elsewhere, we may be trying to help someone make a decision based on their needs. It's great that we have such a variety of experiences to share with each other. When it comes to comfort and risk, all we can do is say what is right for us, because we all have different things that are right for us. And that is a good thing. That's what gives life a little spice.

vitaminC · Post by **vitaminC** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:07 pm

San Francisco wrote: Many times I see those "some who think otherwise." Just the other day I
was in a car and five guys on superbikes [cheap rice rockets] rode in and
out of traffic. I think they were doing about 80 mph. Each had on the
identical "safety equipment."
All wore: white low top athletic shoes, blue jeans, and windbreakers.

While their safety 'gear' was far from ideal, they were in fact probably a bit safer than the OP just because a sportbike is much more capable on the freeway. Of course, riding like an idiot will get you in trouble regardless of the vehicle you are piloting.

I've done a couple short stretches on 280, and while I survived, I didn't come away thinking, "wow, the Buddy was made for this!"

EBee · Post by **EBee** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:54 pm

In Ohio it's illegal to have a 125 on the expressway, correct me if I'm wrong...I think around Cincinnati at any rate it would be common sense, never mind the law! It's just not fun, either.

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:28 pm

EBee wrote:In Ohio it's illegal to have a 125 on the expressway, correct me if I'm wrong...I think around Cincinnati at any rate it would be common sense, never mind the law! It's just not fun, either.

Common sense is almost never common. I agree it's a bad idea to take the Buddy 125 onto I71 or I75 around Cincinnati, legal or not. There are stretches between here and Columbus where it might not be a big deal, long and straight through the farms with several lanes and little traffic.

I do pretty regularly ride it on River Rd, where it can get pretty fast, but the Buddy keeps up with most traffic there no problem.

There will always be those with a need to go faster no matter what you're driving or what the speed limit is. I just drove over 2500 miles in the Subaru in the last two weeks and was passed like I was standing still many times despite my cruising speed of 75mph.

ScooterDave · Post by **ScooterDave** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:46 pm

EBee wrote:In Ohio it's illegal to have a 125 on the expressway, correct me if I'm wrong

If I read the Ohio law correctly, it is legal as the Buddy is 9hp. I have been stopped by police before on my Rally 180 on the expressway for a tag violation and no mention was made of engine size.

I have also taken my Buddy on the expressway with no issues. The farthest I have ridden is probably 5 miles. My Vespa P200e would go on the expressway all the time. Although that was a 70mph+ scooter.

I am not sure I would ride 50 miles on the expressway just because riding on the highway is boring. But the size, weight, or power of the Buddy does not bother me. Those that have ridden with me, even if they do not have a shirt, know I ride a bit out of the norm.

If you have ridden with me and do not have a shirt, feel free to get one. http://www.cafepress.com/sctrdve

4511.051 Freeways - prohibited acts.
(A) No person, unless otherwise directed by a police officer, shall:

(1) As a pedestrian, occupy any space within the limits of the right-of-way of a freeway, except: in a rest area; on a facility that is separated from the roadway and shoulders of the freeway and is designed and appropriately marked for pedestrian use; in the performance of public works or official duties; as a result of an emergency caused by an accident or breakdown of a motor vehicle; or to obtain assistance;

(2) Occupy any space within the limits of the right-of-way of a freeway, with: an animal-drawn vehicle; a ridden or led animal; herded animals; a pushcart; a bicycle, except on a facility that is separated from the roadway and shoulders of the freeway and is designed and appropriately marked for bicycle use; a bicycle with motor attached; a motor driven cycle with a motor which produces not to exceed five brake horsepower; an agricultural tractor; farm machinery; except in the performance of public works or official duties.

(B) Except as otherwise provided in this division, whoever violates this section is guilty of a minor misdemeanor. If, within one year of the offense, the offender previously has been convicted of or pleaded guilty to one predicate motor vehicle or traffic offense, whoever violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. If, within one year of the offense, the offender previously has been convicted of two or more predicate

San Francisco · Post by **San Francisco** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:02 pm

What's that saying, something like "just because you can do it does not
mean that you should."

On the motorcycle boards of which I am a member, many times during
the year we have read or talk about members getting into accidents,
some getting killed.

Some who were killed were pros in terms of riding superbikes, many
raced. One guy in Sacramento, California owned a motorcycle parts
store. He pulled a wheelie at high speed to show off. He lost control,
hit a phone pole and died.

Yes indeed, just because the Buddy is freeway legal in some states does
not mean you should take it on the interstate. IMHO no dealer should be
advertising that the Buddy is freeway legal .

San Francisco · Post by **San Francisco** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:20 pm

ScooterDave wrote:
EBee wrote:In Ohio it's illegal to have a 125 on the expressway, correct me if I'm wrong
If I read the Ohio law correctly, it is legal as the Buddy is 9hp.

How interesting that Ohio goes by horsepower. California goes by engine
size.

Seems it would be hard to enforce HP on the road, during a stop.

Roose Hurro · Post by **Roose Hurro** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:25 pm

I'm sorry, but "pros" don't pull wheelies... not on purpose, and certainly not to "show off"! I think we are all smart enough to realize two wheels don't make a motor vehicle a toy, nor something you can play with so carelessly. As so many have said: "Ride Safe!"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ScooterDave · Post by **ScooterDave** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:16 am

Roose Hurro wrote:I'm sorry, but "pros" don't pull wheelies... not on purpose, and certainly not to "show off"!

I would have to disagree. That is your opinion and that is fine. I have pulled wheelies on a scooter (and motorcycles) and I am sure I will do it in the future. I am not a "pro", but I am an experienced rider and have raced WERA.

I know many a professional rider and work at a motorcycle shop on the weekends that ran one of the top race teams for many years. I have seen more than one wheelie outside the shop. These are not squids but, professional riders.

So, I take exception to your statement.

Dave

Roose Hurro · Post by **Roose Hurro** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:52 am

I stand corrected... somehow, I totally forgot about the Evil Knievel types.

Still, wheelies are showy. And dangerous. How many broken bones has good ol' EV suffered? I guess my idea of a professional racer is someone who "goes" without "show". Now, if your profession is "Showmanship"... stunts... then I guess you could consider it a pro activity. Certainly, riders get a kick out of wheelies... out of the challenge of executing a perfect lift and drop. That, I can understand. But I've heard too many stories... and recently watched quite a few vids on the matter on YouTube... wherein idiots, not professional showmen, ruined fine machinery, and very nearly killed themselves, pulling such stunts. To me, a pro is someone who respects his machine and knows his limitations... who doesn't "show off"... who doesn't set a bad example for new riders. A pro stunter can make the tricks look easy, and can lead inexperienced riders to try things they shouldn't attempt. A pro is responsible, and very safety oriented.

Like you said... not a "squid".

It's a fine line to tread, really. And I guess even professionals have to start somewhere....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ScooterDave · Post by **ScooterDave** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:35 am

There is a difference between a professional or experienced rider and a squid. It is a shame that the vast majority of what we see out there are squids.

squid (skwid) n. 1. a motorcyclist who exaggerates his riding ability by attempting dangerous tricks. 2. a motorcyclist who wears grossly inadequate safety gear, typically shorts, T-shirt, and flip-flops. [Naval term for young sailor; typically one on leave with money to spend on a motorcycle. Believed to be an acronym for Stupid, Quick, and Inevitably Dead. Or Super QUick, Inadequately Dressed.]

Yes, “squid” is a pejorative term, whether in its original usage for referring to members of the Navy by other members of the armed forces, or in its current usage of referring to those riders of sportbikes of limited talent and overarching recklessness. Should you be concerned that he’ll bust you in the chops? No. He’s wearing sandals, shorts, a T-shirt and baseball cap on backwards: if he tries to punch you, grab the hem of his shirt and pull it over his head. While he’s blinded, stomp on his unprotected feet with your own engineer boot-clad real-motorcyclist feet. Now that he’s hopping around on one foot with his shirt over his head, knock him over, pants him, take his bike for a spin and dump it in a ditch. You’re saving him the trouble of running it into the ditch himself, and a lot of road-rash besides, and you get a ride on a nice bike out of it for your trouble! (timberwolf.com)

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:47 am

1936 racer

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:03 am

Roose Hurro wrote:I'm sorry, but "pros" don't pull wheelies... not on purpose, and certainly not to "show off"! I think we are all smart enough to realize two wheels don't make a motor vehicle a toy, nor something you can play with so carelessly. As so many have said: "Ride Safe!"

Not all smart enough.
viewtopic.php?t=386

In fact, in the early days of this forum (when the Buddy was a year or so younger than now) there were a few reports of people crashing while attempting wheelies.

Unfortunately, to some folks, inexpensive + plastic exterior = toy. A lot of these folks do fall into the squid/wannabe category, some own bigger bikes and consider the Bud something they can screw around on. Even worse, this perception may carry over to drivers who often grossly underestimate the speed & power of scooters. Especially pink ones.

San Francisco · Post by **San Francisco** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:02 am

Roose Hurro wrote:I'm sorry, but "pros" don't pull wheelies... not on purpose, and certainly not to "show off"! I think we are all smart enough to realize two wheels don't make a motor vehicle a toy, nor something you can play with so carelessly. As so many have said: "Ride Safe!"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, what I meant by "pro" was the level of skill, not someone who races bikes professionally.

Fact is, "pros" at whatever can be sheet for brains mental slobs in all other
respects. And being a pro at something does not mean one is "smart
enough to realize" other things.

Roose Hurro · Post by **Roose Hurro** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:21 am

San Francisco wrote:Well, what I meant by "pro" was the level of skill, not someone who races bikes professionally.

Fact is, "pros" at whatever can be sheet for brains mental slobs in all other
respects. And being a pro at something does not mean one is "smart
enough to realize" other things.

Hey, all you have to do is see how many "professional" stunters have ended up dead or permanently disabled by their "professional stupidity"... all it takes is one tiny mistake, one itty bitty miscalculation...

... BANG! SLAM! *road pizza*

All for the sake of "entertainment". Or for the "thrill". I look at it this way... I'd rather enjoy riding my bike for decades to come, rather than risk spending the rest of my life in a wheelchair... or dead. It's risky enough out on the roads, without adding to the risk by pulling stupid stunts, whose only value is "the thrill" or "the achievement" or... whatever. Make your choice, pay the price....

I'd rather stay in one piece, so I can enjoy the Ride!

Ericalm... the only safe* form of "screwing around" in a motor vehicle involves the back seat, a lonely parking spot out in the boonies, and the dark of a moonless night. (*... don't forget the condom)

Rajron... 1936 racer going up hill!

ScooterDave... yes, the difference is... well, a professional/experienced rider knows better than to pop a wheelie. However, if someone wants to risk it for fame and big bucks...?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Elm Creek Smith · Post by **Elm Creek Smith** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:27 am

Motorcycle road racers on high speed straights often raise the front wheel (not exactly a wheelie) since it reduces rolling resistance and lets them go faster. Of course, that's not on a street, and their bikes have the excess power to let them do it. Even then, bad things can happen.

I'm not taking the Budd on the highway since it scares me in my PT Cruiser. I've got 2-4 lane streets (some through the "country" where the speed limits are 40-50 mph and one traffic circle on my ride to work. Interestingly enough, there is less traffic there than on the highways.

ECS

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:07 am

Hill Climb - landing

Roose Hurro · Post by **Roose Hurro** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:05 am

rajron wrote:Hill Climb - landing

Yep... seen enough of those to know it's hard keeping that front wheel down.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

codemonkey · Post by **codemonkey** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:25 pm

Where I live there's a little tiny stretch of I-15 that you absolutely have to go on if you want to get to the next town over (even bikes are allowed on that part of the freeway). The only other way is 10 miles around the lake on a twisty, windy road. I'm still pretty nervous to try it though. I've only been riding for a few weeks. Maybe I'll try it when I'm comfortable going 65 mph.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:12 pm

codemonkey wrote:Where I live there's a little tiny stretch of I-15 that you absolutely have to go on if you want to get to the next town over (even bikes are allowed on that part of the freeway). The only other way is 10 miles around the lake on a twisty, windy road. I'm still pretty nervous to try it though. I've only been riding for a few weeks. Maybe I'll try it when I'm comfortable going 65 mph.

10 miles of twisty, windy road around a lake sounds kind of awesome to me.

codemonkey · Post by **codemonkey** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:27 pm

ericalm wrote:
codemonkey wrote:Where I live there's a little tiny stretch of I-15 that you absolutely have to go on if you want to get to the next town over (even bikes are allowed on that part of the freeway). The only other way is 10 miles around the lake on a twisty, windy road. I'm still pretty nervous to try it though. I've only been riding for a few weeks. Maybe I'll try it when I'm comfortable going 65 mph.
10 miles of twisty, windy road around a lake sounds kind of awesome to me.

Well, yeah there's that. but when you just want to take a little 5 minute trip to the mall, it's a little far.

Modern Buddy

Buddy on the freeway and bridge, and top speed

Buddy on the freeway and bridge, and top speed

hitting the highway, top speed

Bad Karma...

Re: Bad Karma...

Pro Show...

Re: Bad Karma...

Re: Bad Karma...

Re: Bad Karma, Part Two...

Blue Ridge Mountain...