New Buddys for 2010? Fuel Injected? Electric?

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New Buddys for 2010? Fuel Injected? Electric?

Post by ericalm »

I have absolutely no inside information about any of this, so I'm not seeding rumors planted in my head by Genuine or anything like that. This is all conjecture, speculation and personal opinion.

Over the years, the Buddy has pretty much integrated all the features I think would improve it (better lighting, 12v adapter). My last holdout was having the legshield lights connected as running lights. We've learned this really puts a strain on the battery, though—they're only intended to be used as turn signals. There are a few nitpicky things that could use improvement (seat latch) but they're very minor.

1. Fuel Injection?
I think it's highly probable the Buddy will be fuel injected next year or by MY 2011. Pretty much all scooters companies are moving to injected engines due to emissions standards. The injected BuBu (aka Buddy) is already available in Taiwan as the iBuBu 125.

(If there was any doubt the BuBu is primarily marketed to women in Taiwan, check this out.)

The iBuBu up close:
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No kickstarter! The Taiwanese versions show both black and metallic transmission cases.

The Taiwanese sites show several colors, but the colors there have always been different than in the US. They have actually adopted some of the Buddy colors into their lineup.

2. eBuBu in the US?
We know Genuine wanted to have a more earth-friendly model in their lineup this year but it just didn't work out. PGO has an all-electric version of the Buddy for sale in Asia and, more importantly, Canada (as the eMetro). While not quite on the cutting edge of electric scooter technology, the eBuBu has a top speed of 36mph and a range of 32 miles which can be extended with additional batteries. Unfortunately, they're using lead acid batteries in combination with lithium, which is somewhat less green, adds weight, and is less efficient.

The window for breaking into the e-scooter market is pretty much right now. Though the eBuBu specs seem meager, they fit a lot of potential buyers' expectations and needs. With Vectrix folding, no one is really offering a viable e-scooter in the US right now. That's going to change quickly; the KLD e165 is coming in late 2010 (they say). If the KLD delivers the kind of performance they're claiming (similar speed and range as the Vectrix) at the current estimated price point (under $4K), it could be a huge hit. Other competition is coming as well, including more scooters, small bikes like the Ikoo and electric bikes like the Ultra Motors.

If the eBuBu was introduced at the right price point—$2500 or so—it might just take off.

3. CC bump?
A few people have said they've heard rumblings that the Buddy line, much like computers, will be getting a power bump and be offered as 150cc and 175cc versions, with the 125cc being phased out. I've heard no such thing. At this point, I'm not putting much stock in the rumor mostly because it would mean that PGO was making new, non-injected engines just for the US market. Still, it's a possibility. Heck, anything is possible.

4. New Colors?
While I don't think the yellow Bubu will be coming the America, it feels like it's time to refresh some of the colors and introduce new Internationals. In particular, I think there may be a new blue model to replace the St. Tropez (again, this is purely a guess). How about a red & white Taipei edition with the Chinese graphics in the photo above? (Kidding! Really!)

As far as the non-International colors, I think seafoam green is most likely to be replaced. I also think it would be interesting to replace the black 125 with a new color (or just phase it out) so that the Black Jack is the only noir Buddy.

That's all I have. Anyone else have any rumors, rumblings or things you'd like to see on the Buddy in upcoming years?
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
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Post by jijifer »

Fuel injected sure would have helped me up over 7K ft. Do big bore kits go on as easy if the carb isn't jetted?
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Post by polianarchy »

With the red mat, that looks like the Black Cat. I can dig it!
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Post by NathanielSalzman »

I'm of the opinion that the upgraded suspension from the Black Jack (or at the very least the upgraded front fork) should become standard on the Buddy or at least be an option for ordering a bike. I don't really see that happening, but it's the weak part of the scooter, in my opinion.
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Post by BuddyLicious »

Of course we all can come up with a wish list of improvements for the Buddy's but of course too with each improvement comes a higher price tag. Looking at it from the manufactures/distributors side and also what would be beneficial for the most amount of buyers,the top 2 things I thought of to improve would be having fuel injection and boosting available electrical power output. I'm pretty sure switching to FI is a proven beneficial change.And then too the adding of more available wattage output would be an improvement for adding more lighting but also additional accessories.I think the lack of additional output has been a weak spot on scooters from day 1.So even if these 2 things arn't on your list,you still benefit from them.Just my opinion.

Hey how about a custom order Buddy concept? Each buyer chooses from a long list of options so each Buddy is unique and the owners are completely satisfied? Oh nevermind I forgot about that pesky thing called MORE MONEY. :?

What say you...
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Post by peabody99 »

I think it is terrible to not have a kick start. I depend on it in the winter. Even if I use a battery tender at night sometimes sitting out all day at work at 20 degrees makes it hard to start.

as far as fuel injection, will that make the MPG even better? I ask b/c I cannot believe I can get around 80mpg on the GTS. People tell me it is b/c of the fuel injection.
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Post by Lookin' To Scoot »

EFI is a win/win as far as emissions and fuel economy. Because fuel injection delivers a more precise flow of gas to the engine, there is less wasted fuel and accordingly, fewer pollutants out the exhaust pipe.

I wouldn't be surprised if the kick starter goes the way of the engine crank when EFI debuts as it really won't be needed.

When EFI makes it to the States, there is going to need to be an upgrade to the electrical system/battery due to the necessary computer controls. It would be great if the upgrades are enough to also allow for running lights.
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Post by gt1000 »

You can't kick start a fuel injected bike so the kick start lever goes the way of the dinosaur on all EFI bikes. As far as I know, there's no such thing as mechanical fuel injection anymore so all EFI bikes depend on a computer chip and electrical power to start. Many EFI bikes also cannot be bump started because of this. EFI is a win/win in the sense that it should improve mileage and emissions but it doubles or triples the complexity of the bike for all DIY'ers. If the carbed Buddy had fueling issues I'd be all in favor of EFI but my Buddy's carbed motor fuels better than a lot of EFI bikes I've ridden. I think it's smart of PGO to offer both a carbed and injected version, hopefully Genuine will follow suit. Tuning a fuel injected bike takes talent.

For me, the biggest need is to reduce unsprung weight and increase the contact patch. I'd love to see alloy wheels and slightly wider wheels and tires. That could make a huge difference in steering response, turn-in and handling.
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Post by bgwss »

If they do have carburetors they will be tamper proof meaning you will not be able to adjust the fuel/air mixture. They started doing that with 2009 as Vespa turned Genuine in on this. So I would think we are closer to getting fuel injected scooters.
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Post by Kaos »

bgwss wrote:If they do have carburetors they will be tamper proof meaning you will not be able to adjust the fuel/air mixture. They started doing that with 2009 as Vespa turned Genuine in on this. So I would think we are closer to getting fuel injected scooters.
Usually "Tamper proof" Means a little plastic plug covering the mixture screws that can be removed fairly easily. If not, a new carburetor isn't that much money :)
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Post by BuddyLicious »

Kaos wrote:
bgwss wrote:If they do have carburetors they will be tamper proof meaning you will not be able to adjust the fuel/air mixture. They started doing that with 2009 as Vespa turned Genuine in on this. So I would think we are closer to getting fuel injected scooters.
Usually "Tamper proof" Means a little plastic plug covering the mixture screws that can be removed fairly easily. If not, a new carburetor isn't that much money :)
I was wondering wouldn't it almost have to be only a cover over the carb vs making the carb truly tamperproof cause of needed adjusting? I don't know much about it but it seems like sometimes carbs have to be adjusted.Or are the tamperproof carbs different somehow?

Also how does the FI carbs work with aftermarket pipes? Just install and go? Inquiring minds want to know from those who have a mind.Thanks.
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Post by Kaos »

BuddyLicious wrote:
Kaos wrote:
bgwss wrote:If they do have carburetors they will be tamper proof meaning you will not be able to adjust the fuel/air mixture. They started doing that with 2009 as Vespa turned Genuine in on this. So I would think we are closer to getting fuel injected scooters.
Usually "Tamper proof" Means a little plastic plug covering the mixture screws that can be removed fairly easily. If not, a new carburetor isn't that much money :)
I was wondering wouldn't it almost have to be only a cover over the carb vs making the carb truly tamperproof cause of needed adjusting? I don't know much about it but it seems like sometimes carbs have to be adjusted.Or are the tamperproof carbs different somehow?

Also how does the FI carbs work with aftermarket pipes? Just install and go? Inquiring minds want to know from those who have a mind.Thanks.
Its not a cover over the whole carb, just the adjusters. For the most part they'll be close enough to not need adjustment on a stock motor.

Technically, FI bikes don't have a 'carburetor' they have a throttle-body. There is a FI computer that will auto adjust the mix based on data from O2 sensors in the exhaust, so they don't need to be manually adjusted. Assuming electronic FI. But most things are these days.
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Post by BuddyLicious »

Kaos wrote:
bgwss wrote:If they do have carburetors they will be tamper proof meaning you will not be able to adjust the fuel/air mixture. They started doing that with 2009 as Vespa turned Genuine in on this. So I would think we are closer to getting fuel injected scooters.
Usually "Tamper proof" Means a little plastic plug covering the mixture screws that can be removed fairly easily. If not, a new carburetor isn't that much money :)
I was wondering wouldn't it almost have to be only a cover over the carb vs making the carb truly tamperproof cause of needed adjusting? I don't know much about it but it seems like sometimes carbs have to be adjusted.Or are the tamperproof carbs different somehow?

Also how does the FI carbs work with aftermarket pipes? Just install and go? Inquiring minds want to know from those who have a mind.Thanks.
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Post by pcbikedude »

I suspect that they Buddy will not be fuel injected for 2010. More likely 2011. I was cruising through this week's Cal. ARB certifications and noticed that Kymco just received approval on all their 2010 models. Only the Yager and Xciting models are FI (just like this year).
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Post by scootermom »

I'm a newbie to scooters and motorcycles and I don't even have my scooter yet, so I really don't have much to offer in terms of technical opinions, but.....

I just hope that Genuine keeps the Tangerine color for 2010, because I am totally in love with that color. :D

That is all. Now back to your regular, more interesting comments.

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Post by peabody99 »

I agree the tangerine is one of the best colors. I like them all, but red, tangerine and the light blue are especially appealing for the style of the Buddy.
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Post by illnoise »

I dunno, I don't think the Buddy's gonna get EFI across the whole range. Yes, it's mandatory in Taiwan now, but if PGO can keep cranking 'em out with carbs for us, I think Genuine's going to stick with 'em to keep the price down. The price is a HUGE selling point for the Buddy.

I would think it'd be more likely that we'd see the revival of the ecoBuddy and/or other specific models with EFI. I bet the standard models stay pretty much the same and we see a cool new 'special' model or two. I could see a hopped up 175 special model, but I just think that's asking too much of the platform and a 175 with EFI might be a good seller (like the Black Jack) but it's just too expensive for the meat and potatoes crowd.

I think/hope they're putting their attention and money into the new Blur 220 and the touring scooter, I think those'll both be winners. The Buddy's great as it is, and while you could argue there's always room for improvement, that might not actually be the case with the Buddy, ha.

I wouldn't bet on the eBuddy either, but who knows... it sounds nice, but the specs aren't really all that impressive. It sounds like the kinda thing that everyone says they want, but no one would actually buy.
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Re: New Buddys for 2010? Fuel Injected? Electric?

Post by jrsjr »

ericalm wrote:...things you'd like to see on the Buddy in upcoming years?
I'd like to see a "Big Buddy" with 12" wheels, a 175cc FI motor and beefed-up suspension.
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Re: New Buddys for 2010? Fuel Injected? Electric?

Post by BuddyLicious »

jrsjr wrote:
ericalm wrote:...things you'd like to see on the Buddy in upcoming years?
I'd like to see a "Big Buddy" with 12" wheels, a 175cc FI motor and beefed-up suspension.
Speaking of wheels,what size is the Buddys wheels? I ran across some custom wheels in size 2.50 x 10 & 2.75 x 10.Would one of these work? Thanks.
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Post by pugbuddy »

I believe the Buddy's wheels are 3.5 x 10.
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Post by Kaos »

pugbuddy wrote:I believe the Buddy's wheels are 3.5 x 10.
yep, 3.5 X 10.
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Post by ericalm »

illnoise wrote:I would think it'd be more likely that we'd see the revival of the ecoBuddy and/or other specific models with EFI. I bet the standard models stay pretty much the same and we see a cool new 'special' model or two. I could see a hopped up 175 special model, but I just think that's asking too much of the platform and a 175 with EFI might be a good seller (like the Black Jack) but it's just too expensive for the meat and potatoes crowd.
I could definitely see it happening this way.

But with all the competition eventually going to EFI, I think the Buddys will have to be at some point. Maybe not next year or even 2011.

Having a high-performance model in addition top the BlackJack could be cool, especially if it offered different specs. I imagine is could be like some cars which have several different versions. Here's the base model, then up and up. But I also think there's a ceiling to how much buyers will be willing to pay for even the most hopped-up Buddy. At some point, it loses much of its broad appeal and becomes too specialized. If it's a limited edition or something like that, it might catch on.

I'd also like to see true limited, numbered editions like they did with some Stellas in the past.
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Post by ScooterNews »

gt1000 wrote:You can't kick start a fuel injected bike so the kick start lever goes the way of the dinosaur on all EFI bikes. As far as I know, there's no such thing as mechanical fuel injection anymore so all EFI bikes depend on a computer chip and electrical power to start. Many EFI bikes also cannot be bump started because of this. EFI is a win/win in the sense that it should improve mileage and emissions but it doubles or triples the complexity of the bike for all DIY'ers. If the carbed Buddy had fueling issues I'd be all in favor of EFI but my Buddy's carbed motor fuels better than a lot of EFI bikes I've ridden. I think it's smart of PGO to offer both a carbed and injected version, hopefully Genuine will follow suit. Tuning a fuel injected bike takes talent.

For me, the biggest need is to reduce unsprung weight and increase the contact patch. I'd love to see alloy wheels and slightly wider wheels and tires. That could make a huge difference in steering response, turn-in and handling.
You may be interested to know that fuel injection actually does not hinder kick starting(on any scooter or motorcycle in which a kick start system is equipped) and kick starting is even used on some current production motorcycles. See the latest Suzuki RMZ450 motocross racer for an example of a bike with FI and a kick start system:

http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product%20L ... =motocross

Additionally, any motorcycle or scooter with a manual clutch can be bump started (or push start if you will) regardless of whether or not it has fuel injection (Yamaha's fuel injected 800CC MotoGP monster M1 is bump started off of a roller for instance).
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Post by Kaos »

ScooterNews wrote:
gt1000 wrote:You can't kick start a fuel injected bike so the kick start lever goes the way of the dinosaur on all EFI bikes. As far as I know, there's no such thing as mechanical fuel injection anymore so all EFI bikes depend on a computer chip and electrical power to start. Many EFI bikes also cannot be bump started because of this. EFI is a win/win in the sense that it should improve mileage and emissions but it doubles or triples the complexity of the bike for all DIY'ers. If the carbed Buddy had fueling issues I'd be all in favor of EFI but my Buddy's carbed motor fuels better than a lot of EFI bikes I've ridden. I think it's smart of PGO to offer both a carbed and injected version, hopefully Genuine will follow suit. Tuning a fuel injected bike takes talent.

For me, the biggest need is to reduce unsprung weight and increase the contact patch. I'd love to see alloy wheels and slightly wider wheels and tires. That could make a huge difference in steering response, turn-in and handling.
You may be interested to know that fuel injection actually does not hinder kick starting(on any scooter or motorcycle in which a kick start system is equipped) and kick starting is even used on some current production motorcycles. See the latest Suzuki RMZ450 motocross racer for an example of a bike with FI and a kick start system:

http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product%20L ... =motocross

Additionally, any motorcycle or scooter with a manual clutch can be bump started (or push start if you will) regardless of whether or not it has fuel injection (Yamaha's fuel injected 800CC MotoGP monster M1 is bump started off of a roller for instance).
I'll second that. There's no reason you can't kickstart an EFI bike. The kickstarter does EXACTLY the same thing that the electric start does.

Also EFI does not greatly increase complexity for a DIYer. Infact in some aspects(Like mixture adjustment) it simplifies things.
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Post by jfrost2 »

Inspecting the ibubu 125, it doesnt come standard with a kick starter lever, but the cover does have a slot like one would fit or if the cover was used on a previous model that did use the kick starter.
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Post by gt1000 »

Additionally, any motorcycle or scooter with a manual clutch can be bump started (or push start if you will) regardless of whether or not it has fuel injection (Yamaha's fuel injected 800CC MotoGP monster M1 is bump started off of a roller for instance).
You'd think so, wouldn't you? But, in most cases, with road bikes, you'd be wrong. Racing bikes, like racing cars, can't be used as a comparison. High-spec racers, cars and bikes, often don't have starters so they're set up for bump starting. Road bikes and cars are different. Ask yourself why you'd normally be bump starting a bike. The main reason is that your battery is dead. So, if your battery is dead, what powers your high pressure EFI fuel pump? If you have a good battery and, for some reason, want to bump start your bike, depending on the bike you can make that happen. So my point could've been stated more clearly.

As for kick starting, yeah, there's nothing stopping any motorcycle company from putting kick starters on road bikes with EFI. The fact that there are a few kick starters on special purpose EFI bikes doesn't really change the answer for me. I was not referring to what "might be" when I wrote my response, I was referring to "what is". And the fact is, for the overwhelming majority of road bikes with EFI, there is no kick starter option.

As a side note, anyone riding alone out in the boonies on a dirt bike without a kick starter is just asking to be stranded. I'd sure hesitate. Does that convince BMW to equip any of their adventure bikes with that feature?
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Post by illnoise »

gt1000 wrote:So, if your battery is dead, what powers your high pressure EFI fuel pump?
If you're kicking it, wouldn't the point be to turn the stator over to create a charge to spark the plug to get the engine running, which would start generating electrical power (via the stator) to power the fuel pump?

I guess your point might be there's no gas in the cylinder to start it, and I admittedly don't know much about how EFI works, but conceivably, gravity and/or compression would pull some fuel into the cylinder to get it started, or at least COULD, if it was designed like that.

Again, I'm not sure if it's possible, but it seems like it could be if it was designed to be. I think the Aprilia SR50 has a kickstart lever, and that's injected.

I always thought bigger scooters lacked kickstart levers because the force required to fight the engine compression grew (and because people were breaking their Vespa cases trying to kickstart 150s)

The bigger problem, as I see it, is that you have to hold in your brake lever to start a scooter, so a rolling start would be difficult!
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Post by Lookin' To Scoot »

Just as you can't bump/push start a car with an automatic, I don't believe you could a CVT scooter either.

Even if you did have a kick starter, with electronic (as opposed to mechanical) fuel injection, the injector gets its instructions as to when and how much fuel to squirt by way of the electronic control module (ie computer). If the battery is dead, the ECM probably isn't capable of sending any instructions to the injector. Hence, no fuel in the cylinder and no explosion.
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Post by pyrocpu »

The other reason to use a kickstarter over the electric starter is if the starter itself (or wiring/switch leading to it) is no good. Assuming the batt's still good, one can start an EFI vehicle via bumpstart, or kickstart in the case of, say, a Zuma 125.

In one of my previous cars, one of the ways I'd disable the vehicle if leaving it parked outside while on vacation, was removing the fuse to the ECU. As Lookin to Scoot mentioned, with no brain telling the EFI system when to fire, the car will absolutely not operate under its own power.
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Post by ScooterNews »

gt1000 wrote:
Additionally, any motorcycle or scooter with a manual clutch can be bump started (or push start if you will) regardless of whether or not it has fuel injection (Yamaha's fuel injected 800CC MotoGP monster M1 is bump started off of a roller for instance).
You'd think so, wouldn't you? But, in most cases, with road bikes, you'd be wrong. Racing bikes, like racing cars, can't be used as a comparison. High-spec racers, cars and bikes, often don't have starters so they're set up for bump starting. Road bikes and cars are different. Ask yourself why you'd normally be bump starting a bike. The main reason is that your battery is dead. So, if your battery is dead, what powers your high pressure EFI fuel pump? If you have a good battery and, for some reason, want to bump start your bike, depending on the bike you can make that happen. So my point could've been stated more clearly.

As for kick starting, yeah, there's nothing stopping any motorcycle company from putting kick starters on road bikes with EFI. The fact that there are a few kick starters on special purpose EFI bikes doesn't really change the answer for me. I was not referring to what "might be" when I wrote my response, I was referring to "what is". And the fact is, for the overwhelming majority of road bikes with EFI, there is no kick starter option.

As a side note, anyone riding alone out in the boonies on a dirt bike without a kick starter is just asking to be stranded. I'd sure hesitate. Does that convince BMW to equip any of their adventure bikes with that feature?
I was trying to be polite earlier so please don't take this the wrong way but unfortunately you're incorrect here again. Remember the example I previously used, the RMZ450? The bike doesn't even have a battery and by your logic the bike wouldn't be able to run because the fuel pump wouldn't have power. Obviously the bike runs the FI system fine without a battery.

In actuality, the FI system is powered by the stator or generator (depending on how old your bike is) that is attached to the crankshaft. When the crankshaft spins, magnets placed on the stator generate electricity that powers everything on a bike except maybe for a few parking lights and the electric stater (if your bike is equipped).

The purpose of any starter is to rotate the crank shaft to start the bike. Electric starters use an electric motor to spin the crank, kick starters use a lever, a gear, and foot power to accomplish the same thing. Similarly bump starting accomplishes the same by rotating the crank via rolling the rear wheel forward. When you push the bike, hop on, and let the clutch out the spinning motions of the rear wheel is transferred to the crankshaft via the chain and transmission. This would power any accessories needed such as fuel pump and CDI box to start the bike.

As I said earlier, any scooter/motorcycle with wheels and a manual clutch can be bump started.
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Post by Lookin' To Scoot »

Most (but obviously not all, dirt bikes being the only exception I can think of) vehicles today have an electrical system with a battery. The electric power provided by the battery is a key component of most EFI systems as well as providing power for the starter and lights. Because most street motorcycles and scooters have a battery and electric start, the kickstart is becoming obsolete, especially with EFI systems where there is virtually no chance of flooding the engine and consequently running the battery down trying to start it.

Yes, the RMZ 450 has a battery-less system, so it has/needs a kick start. It's also a dirt bike which does not have lights, etc, so it doesn't need an electrical system. Plus on a dirt bike, you don't want the weight of a battery or starter. So while it would be possible to adapt an RMZ 450 type system to the Buddy, what would be the point?
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gt1000
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Post by gt1000 »

I was trying to be polite earlier so please don't take this the wrong way
No offense taken, hopefully I didn't come across too strong. We're going to need to agree to disagree. The RMZ is a thinly disguised supercross racer. Comparing it to a road worthy bike is like comparing a Formula 1 car to a road car. F1 cars don't have starters either, but my TSX doesn't come with a pit crew.

As I said in my second post, I could have stated my points more clearly. My major point is that with EFI road bikes, a dead battery typically means no bump start is possible. I've owned a number of EFI bikes and I've attempted to bump start every one of them when they've had dead batteries. It's never worked, but I have heard that some folks have had limited success with certain specific bikes. My current bike is paralyzed in at least 3 different ways without battery power, 2 of which are directly related to EFI (chip and fuel pump). Dead batteries are pretty common with street bikes, dead starters not so much.

To reiterate, I'm not particularly interested in what "might be", I'm talking about what actually exists on the dealer's floor. The fact that a specialized EFI motor does not require a battery or starter has little to do with the reality of street bikes you can actually buy. Personally, I wish that would change, especially for an adventure bike that could find itself stranded at the actual end of the earth.
Andy

2006 Buddy 125 (orange), going to a good MB home
2009 Vespa 250 GTS (black)
2012 Triumph Tiger 800 (black)
2008 Ducati Hypermotard S, traded for Tiger 800
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Post by ScooterNews »

gt1000 wrote:
I was trying to be polite earlier so please don't take this the wrong way
No offense taken, hopefully I didn't come across too strong. We're going to need to agree to disagree. The RMZ is a thinly disguised supercross racer. Comparing it to a road worthy bike is like comparing a Formula 1 car to a road car. F1 cars don't have starters either, but my TSX doesn't come with a pit crew.

As I said in my second post, I could have stated my points more clearly. My major point is that with EFI road bikes, a dead battery typically means no bump start is possible. I've owned a number of EFI bikes and I've attempted to bump start every one of them when they've had dead batteries. It's never worked, but I have heard that some folks have had limited success with certain specific bikes. My current bike is paralyzed in at least 3 different ways without battery power, 2 of which are directly related to EFI (chip and fuel pump). Dead batteries are pretty common with street bikes, dead starters not so much.

To reiterate, I'm not particularly interested in what "might be", I'm talking about what actually exists on the dealer's floor. The fact that a specialized EFI motor does not require a battery or starter has little to do with the reality of street bikes you can actually buy. Personally, I wish that would change, especially for an adventure bike that could find itself stranded at the actual end of the earth.
I'm curious, could you please give me a example of a street bike you owned that wouldn't bump start? In some cases it may be more difficult (ie you may need 8 - 10 seconds of sustained 4000-5000RPM) to generate enough electricity to start the bike, but every bike with a clutch will push start eventually. Below are yet two more examples.

Here is another example of a Triumph Rocket III on youtube that is bump started. The bike has fuel injection, lights, and no kick starter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH5jLInoLvA

Injected Kawasaki ZX9r:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9D3TBy6hYI

Regardless, Buddys can't be push started since they have a CVT transmission so this is all kind of a moot point.
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Post by bgwss »

Back to our regularly scheduled thread. :idea:
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Post by Lostmycage »

ScooterNews wrote:Regardless, Buddys can't be push started since they have a CVT transmission so this is all kind of a moot point.
+1 :rofl:
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Post by illnoise »

Lostmycage wrote:
ScooterNews wrote:Regardless, Buddys can't be push started since they have a CVT transmission so this is all kind of a moot point.
+1 :rofl:
I was talking about kickstarting, I'm pretty sure there are automatic EFI scooters with kickstarters. Maybe the battery has to be charged, though.

And again, even if you could bumpstart a CVT, it would be tough to do with one of the brake levers held down, ha.

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Post by TVB »

illnoise wrote:And again, even if you could bumpstart a CVT, it would be tough to do with one of the brake levers held down, ha.
The obvious solution to that is to let one of your brakes go bad.

;)
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Post by ScooterNews »

Who need brakes when you only have 9HP?!! :D
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Post by gt1000 »

I'm curious, could you please give me a example of a street bike you owned
Most recently, it was my Ducati GT1000. GTs and most of the Sport Classics had battery mount issues that generated recalls. Dead battteries were frequent. Mine died a couple of times and once it was dead enough to warrant a replacement. Tried bumping it a couple of times and called my mechanic who told me the Ducs couldn't be bumped, so I jumped it. I do know of at least one person who bump started a Ducati but the battery wasn't dead. He was able to turn the key and get a read-out on his dashboard, supply power to the ECU and he could hear his fuel pump whirring. I had no power whatsoever.

As far as kick starters go, it doesn't really matter that an EFI bike can be designed to kick start if all the factories decide kick starters are no longer necessary for street bikes. In general terms, this is the only real point I was trying to make. Just between you and me, I haven't done exhaustive research on which bikes can be bump started and which cannot. Just going by personal and anecdotal experience there. :wink:
Andy

2006 Buddy 125 (orange), going to a good MB home
2009 Vespa 250 GTS (black)
2012 Triumph Tiger 800 (black)
2008 Ducati Hypermotard S, traded for Tiger 800
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