This is not ok!

mcwbyu82 · Post by **mcwbyu82** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:30 am

I have been very dissapointed to hear all the reports of oil filters and drain plugs "working there way loose" lately. I worked as a lube mechanic at my school for three years. I performed about 80 -100 oil changes a month and in the three years I worked there we had 1 drain plug fall out (and that was because my co-worker admittedly did not tighten the plug) We did changes on everything from normal cars/trucks, to semis and heavy equipment, to small tractors and golf carts.
If this is really happening this often something IS WRONG. We have a large community here and we should take action before anyone has to fork out the money for a rebuild or replacement.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:55 am

The question is really whether these problems are due to faulty parts or manufacturing or improper replacement/installation. It seems like most of the incidents reported here are due to the latter, whether it was the dealer, a mechanic or the rider at fault.

I'm certainly not going to play the role of Genuine/PGO/Buddy apologist here, but I'm having trouble seeing how they're at fault. Genuine may need to ensure their dealers' mechs are better informed about these parts and any specific issues with the Buddy... but what other "action" do you think needs to be taken?

mcwbyu82 · Post by **mcwbyu82** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:06 am

I totally agree that if the problems are due to mechanic error then nothing really needs to be done. I guess the point I was getting at is I find it hard to believe that that many mechanics/owners are so incompetent. If designed correctly both a plug and filter should take nothing more then righty tighty, lefty loosey.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:34 am

Wellll....

For riders such as myself who have nearly no mechanical experience prior to taking a ratchet (recently purchased!) to my scoot, it's a learning experience. As much as I want to learn to do things myself (and save a few bucks in the process), there's a chance I'll screw something up; an unfortunate part of the learning process.

When dealers or mechanics are at fault it's a totally different thing. Owners are in the unfortunate position of having to get them to repair or replace the scoot and if that's anything like the process of getting a botched car repair fixed... oof. If there's a run of dealer errors, as I said, Genuine should help address that by sending out some kind of alert or notice.

Best we can do here is to tell members about our experiences and hope they take something from it. I, for one, am going to be double checking the plugs and filters when I replace them.

mcwbyu82 · Post by **mcwbyu82** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:08 am

ericalm wrote: Best we can do here is to tell members about our experiences and hope they take something from it. I, for one, am going to be double checking the plugs and filters when I replace them.

Better make that triple and quadruple check! It is well worth the extra 10 seconds it takes per check to avoid the "clanking" and "rattling" sounds some of our poor forum friends are hearing, regardless of whose fault it may be!

Corsair · Post by **Corsair** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:48 pm

Ok, I must have misread the other posts and thought the problem was a design error but if it's human error then I understand.

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:21 pm

I'm also wondering how many instances of problems there actually have been. I can remember a couple or 3 oil filter issues and one gearbox drain plug. Perhaps I've missed a few posts and there are more, but it seems to me that we have a pretty small sample of problems here.

Also, in at least one instance of the oil filter backing out, the oil change was not performed at the authorized scooter shop. Now, back in the day, I used to do all my own oil changes on my various cars. This was when I could actually see and reach the filter and didn't have to worry about all of today's extra plumbing under the hood. But as far as changing the oil and filter on the Buddy, I'd have to look up or ask someone about properly torquing the new filter into place because I have no idea how tight it needs to be.

It all goes back to the pre-ride inspection. No, you probably don't need to inspect everything before every ride. But you should get into a routine and check things on a regular basis. This thread and the original threads talking about the dropped filter and missing plug had me immediately checking those things out. And, like San Francisico recommended, it's an especially good idea to check the tightness of critical components immediately after a service. If you had an oil change done, check the filter before you ride off.

One last tip...keep some latex gloves handy in your garage. There's nothing worse than jamming greasy fingers into expensive gloves.

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:39 pm

I would say my problems were definitely human error. The drain hole was stripped. If you strip the hole, you gotta expect the plug is going to fall out.

My scooter was leaking oil after the first oil change, and because I was too far from the dealership, I did not give them the opportunity to fix the problem. I tried to deal with it myself. Perhaps if I had taken it in, they would have retapped it then, and my plug would never have fallen out.

And as much as I hate to ask... has anyone who has the dealership do their oil changes had their filter come loose? I think part of the problem might be the head on the generic filters. At least, the first time I used one, I did not get it tight enough because I did not have the proper tool to tighten it with. After employing the metal file trick (discussed in the oil change thread), it has not budged.

San Francisco · Post by **San Francisco** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:00 pm

I agree that there are not that many posts, nor elsewhere on the Net, attributing
the problem to flawed engineering. In fact, most of the posts in here say
that it was the member's own fault for the plug coming loose.

I don't know how long the Buddy engine on our 2006-2007 scooters have
been in use, but I don't think ours are the first years they came out
with it. That being the assumption, I don't think there is a flaw with the
engine case or drain plugs.

Replacing the plug and oil filters is as simple a mechanical operation as can
be, but it is easily screwed up, either by us or the dealers who assign oil
changing tasks to the trainee or apprentice mechanics.

I have observed first hand my friends mess up the drain plugs [e.g., when
it's not properly mated, nevertheless forcing the plug with a wrench]. I
have also come across consumer complaint Sites where people have
complained about those oil changing places do the work and a few miles
later the engine blows because the Jiffy Lube flunky either forgot to
tighten the drain bolt or stripped the threads.

I always check underneath my cars, bikes and scooters to see if anything
has dripped. I am known for stopping the car when backing out of a parking
space and examining any puddles of whatever. Most of the time I can
tell it's air conditioning evaporate/water.

One time in an expensive BMW 740i I owned, it was friggin gasoline!
Turns out the fuel line had a leak. Go figure, an 80k car with a fuel leak.

It pays to always check underneath your vehicles each time you depart.

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:24 pm

I am so incompetent in my knowledge of the mechanical that I do not even know of my leaking gas issue falls into this (they thought it was a clogged carb or either a part came loose in the carb,I think) . For the record I have never layed a hand on the innards of my Buddy and have had it serviced per dealer recommendations. Anyway it is back the third time for leaking gas -it starts leaking again right after I drive it, so I am starting to stress a little, plus miss the use of buddy. The other Buddy we have which lives the same life style, has the same "diet" etc has been good as gold.

While others have suggested this, I do not think the mechanic did anything to cause this as the problem started well after the most recent maintenence. So does this suggest design flaw, isolated fluke or other? Yet apparently the problem has been vexing to repair. Regarding thecarb clogging. Unfortunate- as this winter every week we did not ride the Buddys outside we ran them on the center stand...and drove around the heated garage to keep the battery charged and juices flowing.

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:31 pm

Vibration, vibration, vibration. I don't blame anyone for my filter working loose except myself. I have owned more single cylinder motorcycles and scooters than most people have owned shoes. EVERY SINGLE ONE of them vibrated badly. Even if the engine is rubber-mounted, it still shakes like the paint-shaker at Ace Hardware. Things WILL work loose on a single cylinder engine. Period. It is up to the rider to check it on a regular basis. Just go over it, checking everything. Or take it to a dealer and pay them to do it. The oil filter has more mass than most of the other threaded items on your scooter and will be the most likely item to vibrate loose. Quit trying to blame Genuine or PGO for the effects of physics. Just check it regularly and everything will be fine.

As for changing oil on a car...not comparable. Even a four cylinder won't shake like a single.

--Keys

mcwbyu82 · Post by **mcwbyu82** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:12 am

Man you would think some of you were being payed off by Genuine the way you're jumping to their defense at the slightest implication of fault in this matter. Obviously there is not enough evidence one way or another to really blame anyone, especially with those who have come forward saying it was there goof up. But that doesnt mean it can thappen and if it does happen its not that big a deal and doesnt mean we were all scammed and the Buddy is no better than the Chinese junk out there. Recalls happen all the time, even to great companies like Honda and Toyota. Its just the nature of the industry when dealing with so many small moving parts that are subject to such extremes.
I also have to disagree with the argument that just because the engine has been around for several years with few occurences that there cant be a problem. That may rule out a design flaw but not a manufacturing flaw. The majority of recalls are due to a bad batch because a machine was out of line or something needed to be sharpened etc.

Believe me, I want as much as everyone for there to be nothing wrong with any of our scoots, but if there is there should be no shame or harm in finding out asap so something can be done about it.

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:30 am

mcwbyu82 wrote:Man you would think some of you were being payed off by Genuine the way you're jumping to their defense at the slightest implication of fault in this matter.

Geez, you'd think there were some new owners out there feeling a little nervous about their purchase.

Yeah, we love our scooters and we are going to stand up for them based on our experiences with them.

Look at it this way. Those of us who have had it happen would be the ones with the most right and reason to be up in arms. (And believe me, I do get up in arms from time to time.) Since Keys and I (2 of the 3 who have had the filter come loose) are the ones defending the company, what does that say?

Those of us who have been using our Buddies as our primary form of transportation for some time love them and trust their reliability and most of us who have been around this forum for a while have been impressed with Genuine's responsiveness to our suggestions and problems.

And yes, it's great to ask, to find out if there is a problem, but when the answer seems (at this point) to be a resounding "no"—take heart that you have purchased a reliable machine, that so many owners are so loyal to the company, and that this is not a battle that needs fighting.

If we start to see more incidents, we can always revisit the issue.

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:41 am

Keys wrote: As for changing oil on a car...not comparable. Even a four cylinder won't shake like a single.

That, I found out the hard way.

I'm going to either get the right tool or weld a flat, thick plate to a socket to use my torque wench on the Piaggio filters. As nice as it would be to blame PGO, I don't think there's any design flaw. In fact, I'd say the design is pretty robust.

One thing that might help- an oil pressure idiot light.

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:04 am

gt1000 wrote:I'm also wondering how many instances of problems there actually have been.

I have been paying attention because both have happened to me. If there are any others out there feel free to chime in. My memory is faulty, but this is the sum that I can come up with.

Filter coming loose: Keys, JettaKnight, and I have had our filters come loose. All 3 of us do our own oil changes. JettaKnight and I both had ours come loose VERY shortly after the first oil changes that we did ourselves. We both have said we did not get the filter tight enough.

Drain plug coming loose: Toga28 and I both had our drain plugs fall out. I've already discussed the reasons for that.

And like Eric, I'm learning on my scooter. It's not so shocking to me that I'm the common denominator here. I blame the dealerships for stripping the bolt/hole, for the more common problem of adding too much gear oil, and for adding the wrong weight of gear oil (though Genuine officially said the weight was on the low side of acceptable). I blame myself for not taking care of the stripped bolt/hole problem as soon as it was discovered and for not properly installing the filter on my first try.

For me, at least, there seems to be no damage to the scooter. At this point, everthing seems back to normal. She runs great.

... Though this dang wind is putting a damper on my gas mileage.

I am all for an oil pressure light.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:05 am

JettaKnight wrote:I'm going to either get the right tool or weld a flat, thick plate to a socket to use my torque wench on the Piaggio filters. As nice as it would be to blame PGO, I don't think there's any design flaw. In fact, I'd say the design is pretty robust.

Be careful of overtightening with the torque wrench... it is possible to crush the filter or screw up the threads on the scoot. I posted the tool below and link in the oil changing thread and have used it (clumsily) a couple of times.

After this and the related threads, I'm a little uneasy about whether it sufficiently tightens the filter. But there are a number of ways to do it...

ericalm wrote:
sunshinen wrote:How do you tighten the generic filters? Anyone know what tool I need and where I can get one?
There is a tool that will let you tighten a filter from the top, but a lot of the mechs use a strap wrench.

One of several good threads on oil change tools on MV:
http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5072

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:09 am

I had a strap wrench the time that mine came loose, but I could not find a way to get it in there in a useful way. (I don't have a way to jack up the scooter.) The metal file and pliers idea has worked perfectly for me my past 2 filter changes.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:12 am

sunshinen wrote:I had a strap wrench the time that mine came loose, but I could not find a way to get it in there in a useful way. (I don't have a way to jack up the scooter.) The metal file and pliers idea has worked perfectly for me my past 2 filter changes.

My problem with the strap wrench—and this may be lack of expereince—is that I'm never certain the filter is tight or if the strap is just slipping.

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:54 pm

Man you would think some of you were being payed off by Genuine the way you're jumping to their defense at the slightest implication of fault in this matter. Obviously there is not enough evidence one way or another to really blame anyone, especially with those who have come forward saying it was there goof up. But that doesnt mean it can thappen and if it does happen its not that big a deal and doesnt mean we were all scammed and the Buddy is no better than the Chinese junk out there. Recalls happen all the time, even to great companies like Honda and Toyota. Its just the nature of the industry when dealing with so many small moving parts that are subject to such extremes.

I guess I'm not quite getting the meaning behind this statement. You think someone is being "paid off" because they're not complaining about problems they don't have? Huh? And that maybe they should complain because they might have problems in the future? And if you do have problems in the future then you were scammed because you bought something equivalent to a Chinese clone?

Yeah, recalls happen a lot. Now that the Japanese big 3 are getting really big, they're seeing how hard it is to maintain quality. If there's a problem and a smoking gun, I'll be the first one hounding my local scooter shop for an answer. Thing is, there is no problem. I just flipped over my first thousand miles (since October) and I've had zero issues with my Buddy. Other than a 3 week period around the holidays, I ride 4 or 5 days a week. The Buddy started when it was 70 degrees and when it was 7 degrees. Other than the first scheduled service, it's needed nothing but gas and an occasional cleaning. I check all kinds of stuff every hundred miles or so, just like on my motorcycles, and nothing has worked loose or fallen off. I base my opinion on what's actually happened, not what might or might not happen in the future. I also know that if anything does happen, I have a 2 year warranty to fall back on.

While it wasn't my original intent, I suppose Genuine and PGO do deserve a pat on the back for delivering a good product. And if your local scooter shop serviced your bike and you've suffered none of these issues, they probably deserve a pat on the back (or a 6 pack) as well.

mcwbyu82 · Post by **mcwbyu82** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:31 pm

I was all ready to post another long reply trying to explain my thoughts, which have thus far been completely misinturperted. However, it was never my intention to offend anyone or make anybody be nervous about there scooter, so i will just leave it alone.
I love my Budyy, i think it is a great product and so far am very impressed with the genuine brand.
I apologize if I offended anyone.

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:49 am

I think it is fine to put problems out there and see of there are patterns. It is helpful to dealers and Genuine for sure so they can address things right away. We have two Buddies. Mine started being a lil' stinker at 1200 miles but is now good to go. The other Buddy has been perfect and has even more miles (1700 miles)

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:55 am

We definitely want members to post and discuss any problems they're having with their Buddys. This site is here for the benefit of its members—not to sell Buddys or promote Genuine.

But, as always, the discourse needs to remain civil and respectful, without arguing, condescension or belittling others' opinions or ideas.

louie · Post by **louie** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:29 am

peabody99 wrote:I am so incompetent in my knowledge of the mechanical that I do not even know of my leaking gas issue falls into this (they thought it was a clogged carb or either a part came loose in the carb,I think) . For the record I have never layed a hand on the innards of my Buddy and have had it serviced per dealer recommendations. Anyway it is back the third time for leaking gas -it starts leaking again right after I drive it, so I am starting to stress a little, plus miss the use of buddy. The other Buddy we have which lives the same life style, has the same "diet" etc has been good as gold.

While others have suggested this, I do not think the mechanic did anything to cause this as the problem started well after the most recent maintenence. So does this suggest design flaw, isolated fluke or other? Yet apparently the problem has been vexing to repair. Regarding thecarb clogging. Unfortunate- as this winter every week we did not ride the Buddys outside we ran them on the center stand...and drove around the heated garage to keep the battery charged and juices flowing.

So peabody, what's up with the gas leak?

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:19 am

the problem appears to be fixed. Something ended up being flooded with water-I think something to do with condensation and the emissions system. I honestly should have taken notes as Phil might as well of been speaking Greek. Maybe POC Phil will chime in if he sees this with clarification-although I am not sure if they are 100% sure what happened. B/c it was so vexing, they basically picked apart anything to do with fuel in the engine. The good news is that I have now driven it two days w/o a problem (whereas when this started a couple weeks ago it kept acting up right away after the repair). Anyway I am hoping this will turn out fine. I can say one thing the support at my local scooter shop is top notch (pride of cleveland scooters).

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:30 am

Great to hear peabody.

louie · Post by **louie** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:46 am

sunshinen wrote:Great to hear peabody.

se

InBloom71 · Post by **InBloom71** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:37 am

Hello there. Today it happend to me. I first sent this message to another member but seeing this thread, I think it would be ok for me to post it here. So here it goes.

I had just done my first oil change (200 miles) last night. I took it for a 5 mile test ride and parked in my garage and no oil leak and the oil filter was right where I had tightened it to. This morning my wife and I went on our first ride around the city and about 5 miles in right when we took off from an intersection my engine rattled and had huge loss of power. We were right by a gas station so we pulled right in. I was shocked and very angry to see my oil filter still there but very loose. I thought for sure my engine was trash. I bought 1 quart of penzoil 10w40 and put it in. It took at least 600ml of it. I looked at my wife and apoligized while still on my knees for ruining the engine on our new buddy. I tightened that horrible oil filter (the one with the big slot) as tight as I could with oil all over it. Now here it came... the big test. I hit the starter button and it fired right up and idled fine without any bad noises. I was very thankful that it was at least running because we were at a downtown gas station and there were some very weird characters wandering around. I was not fully comforted until we both got on it and took off. It still had all its power and I still don't hear any noises. We continued on our city tour but we stopped and checked the oil filter every 3 miles until we got home. Right when I got home I welded up a special tool just for that darn oil filter. I actually made 2 of them. One to leave in the garage and one to carry under the Buddy seat. I drained all the pensoil I put in and put in the 15w40 Rotella that I had put in there the night before. I took the Buddy on a 12 mile test run and it seemed to do all right and still no weird noises.

Ok... I will admit that I must not have tightened the filter as much as I should have but I have always done the oil changes on my cars since I was 16 ( I am 36 now) because I don't trust lube places. I barely trust car dealer mechanics. I don't want to blame PGO. My dealer even warned me to get the filter tight. I did tighten it more than I ever tightened a car oil filter. I have always heard to not crank an oil filter on very hard because you can split the rubber seal. When I changed my oil I used an allen wrench sideways in the big slot on the oil filter to get some leverage and pressed with my thumb. When I changed my oil today after the oil loss, I used my new tool to tighten it until it would not turn anymore. Like I said... I don't really blame PGO but.... I am just dissapointed that the filter can go from at least "pretty snug" to backed out to where it is spinning freely in just 5 miles and dumping all your oil out. That makes me nervous. I am going to check my oil filter with my crude but functional tool before every ride now for weeks. I almost think that the manual should say something like "tighten the oil filter to the point you think you are going to damage something".

In the end...... I know it is still my fault. I am just mad that I am a very very paranoid carefull guy and it happend to me anyway.

shark · Post by **shark** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:58 pm

I noticed some of the loose filters seem mostly related to the type w/ the slot. There is a tool for that type. It seems like the type w/ the 21mm bolt head would be easier to tighten.

I havent had to do our's yet, but you people scare me....

I'll be looking at that filter for days!!

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:44 pm

shark wrote:I noticed some of the loose filters seem mostly related to the type w/ the slot.

I'm starting to wonder about that, too. It's enough to make me think that using the filters with the bolt head on them (like the Piaggio OEM ones) may be better. Sure, they're a couple bucks more but that's not much compared to the kind of damage you can do when a filter comes off.

shark · Post by **shark** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:55 pm

$9.95+shipping...cheap

www.scooterworks.com/Oil_Filter_ET4_150 ... 48C292.cfm

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:11 pm

I did my last oil change myself using oil and filter purchased from the dealer where I bought the Buddy, meaning I used the same stuff they use when they do dealer service. No problems with mine.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:08 am

I need to check but don't the PGO filters have a "bolt" extruded that a socket will fit? If so it would help to have the torque spec. I checked the service manual but only found one for the drain plug. In my opinion a decent torque wrench is one of the most needed tools for doing your own work.

birdmove · Post by **birdmove** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:16 am

At least on the drain plug, one can drill and safety wire it.

jon

shark · Post by **shark** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:35 am

BuddyRaton wrote:I need to check but don't the PGO filters have a "bolt" extruded that a socket will fit? If so it would help to have the torque spec. I checked the service manual but only found one for the drain plug. In my opinion a decent torque wrench is one of the most needed tools for doing your own work.

I'm pretty sure the PGO and Piaggio OEM filters have the 21mm bolt head.
In the following post the author tightened his to 8Nm. The filter is a PGO with a bolt head.
www.modernbuddy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=76

shark · Post by **shark** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:48 am

I found it in the servce manual. 8.0 N-M is correct. That converts to 5.9 ft lbs. to tighten the oil filter. Next time I do mine I will see how far the filter rotates after torque is applied.

Post by **jrsjr** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:22 pm

birdmove wrote:At least on the drain plug, one can drill and safety wire it.

jon,

you read my mind. I was thinking about exactly that while trying to figure out a way to secure the Buddy oil filter. I keep wondering if there's wouldn't be a way to put a strap wrench (like the one pictured above) around the oil filter and then leave it in place so you could at least secure the arm of the wrench, maybe by just levering it against the motor or some other structural part. You get my idea? Would that be possible?

-john

EP_scoot · Post by **EP_scoot** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:25 pm

I was thinking the same thing. Having some sort of a bolt-on latch keeping the filter in place until you remove it at the next oil change.

From the thread "MISSiNG BOLT", how close is that unused threaded hole to the oil filter? I don't have a Buddy so I can't tell, but maybe a bracket can be fashioned to bolt on that hole and secure the filter.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:50 pm

Just to keep in mind... The filters are pretty "soft" and you can easily bend or crush them if applying too much pressure.

That said, some kind of filter lock is an interesting idea. I may poke my head under the Buddy and see what's feasible. Any machinists and engineers around here?

InBloom71 · Post by **InBloom71** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:45 am

A filter lock is a darn good idea! I wonder how hot the filter gets. If there are some 2 part epoxys out there that can stand the heat, one could glue something to the filter that something else could fit in to keep it from backing out. Maybe a worm clamp with a strip of rubber under it could be squeezed onto the filter to hold something else. Anything would help me breath a little easier since my sudden oil loss.

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:14 am

I wonder how hot the filter gets.

Without an oil temperature gauge it's hard to know for sure. But, the Buddy is an air cooled scoot with a motor that's pretty well tucked away. It's not uncommon for my oil cooled Ducati to hit temps near 300 if I'm stuck in traffic on a hot day. Generally speaking, an air cooled bike isn't considered warmed up until it reaches 200 degrees.

You can probably figure on the filter being just about as hot as the oil.

jetboy · Post by **jetboy** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:01 pm

There is a post somewhere in the archives from MB member "Scooter Soldier" I think regarding an oil temp gauge he found which fit the Buddy. As I recall, somewhere around 200 was what he was reading.

-jetboy

Sl,ut4 · Post by **Sl,ut4** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:51 pm

After seeing over 350 Buddy's go out our door last year I have never seen this happen. With the exception of the one guy who did his own oil change and had to have a total rebuild shortly after.
I.E. Its not the parts.

Valgal20 · Post by **Valgal20** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:08 am

Ok, I think it is one of two things-

A. Mechanic Error, Part Failure, Rattling Loose, OR

B. "Hay, if I loosen the oil plug right after my oil change, and all the oil goes bye bye- they give me a new engine!" This actually happend on our family van- the guy who did the oil change took the oil out- but forgot to put it back in -oops- needless to say, driving an engine without oil is bad. So they gave us a new engine! (all their fault-not ours)
But hay- That would be the way to go! When your engine is getting over the hill- take it to "big box mart", get your oil changed then drain it right after you leave- ta da- new engine for free. THATS WHY THOSE DARN OIL PLUGS KEEP FALLING OFF! JEEZ!
(PS- I do not condone doing such- as you will probably get in big trouble)

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:46 pm

Sl,ut4 wrote:After seeing over 350 Buddy's go out our door last year I have never seen this happen. With the exception of the one guy who did his own oil change and had to have a total rebuild shortly after.
I.E. Its not the parts.

You sold 350 Buddys last year?

I am impressed.

Valgal20 · Post by **Valgal20** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:29 pm

Hay, I want a 350 buddy, it would be the most awesome death machine ever! Probably go 100mph! Funtastic!

ebcspace · Post by **ebcspace** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:05 am

For the strong concern mentioned here, and in my opinion, it's just not worth it to even buy or try to secure the type of oil filter that has just the "slot" in it, as if that's a good place to use to secure it.

I picked up a new filter a while back from scooterworks, specifying that I wanted an OEM type Buddy oil filter (with the hex head), and it happens that I was sent the slotted type. I sent it back, and clarified why I expected a full refund, and got it. Good customer service.

I have a strap wrench, but getting the average strap wrench into that space in a useful way is another thing. The best filter to buy is the one with the 21mm socket end to it. You can easily remove it, and can secure it nice and snug without a problem.

It's a little bit more expensive than the slotted type, but definitely worth it.

http://www.scooterwest.com/item_detail/ ... ilter/310/

If you do your own oil change, keep in mind that the way you turn the filter or drain plug is based on the correct perspective... looking up/at the piece as it screws onto/into the other component ahead of it, to determine the correct clockwise/counter-clockwise direction. Clockwise to tighten, counter-clockwise to loosen.

The most important mechanical skill is observation... paying attention to what you are doing, being sure of what you are doing before you turn that wrench. Haste makes waste, and stripped drain plugs, etc. by turning really hard in the wrong direction, rather than figuring out which way it's actually supposed to go first. Take your time... better to be in the zone than to be in a hurry.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:19 am

ebcspace wrote:For the strong concern mentioned here, and in my opinion, it's just not worth it to even buy or try to secure the type of oil filter that has just the "slot" in it, as if that's a good place to use to secure it.

That's pretty much the realization I've come to. And I'll probably use my last slot-type filter on the Vespa before I do a Buddy oil change. SO, for my next order, I'm getting the OEM ones. Worth a couple bucks more.

shark · Post by **shark** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:12 pm

ericalm wrote:
ebcspace wrote:For the strong concern mentioned here, and in my opinion, it's just not worth it to even buy or try to secure the type of oil filter that has just the "slot" in it, as if that's a good place to use to secure it.
That's pretty much the realization I've come to. And I'll probably use my last slot-type filter on the Vespa before I do a Buddy oil change. SO, for my next order, I'm getting the OEM ones. Worth a couple bucks more.

I ordered some from Scooterworks a couple of days ago. They came in today. They are the OEM Piaggio filters w/th 21mm nut. Cost= 9.99+ shipping. Dang cheap..order extras and reduce shipping.

Modern Buddy

This is not ok!

This is not ok!

Another oil filter backout.

Filter Lock

Slippery Screws

350 buddy?

oil filter socket style

Re: oil filter socket style

Re: oil filter socket style