Maybe all prima pipe welds fail

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jijifer
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Maybe all prima pipe welds fail

Post by jijifer »

:(

I had such big plans this weekend. Over 400 miles of rustic California desert and mountain roads. I got 140 of them down and was scooting Palm Springs when I noticed the most annoying tinny sound. I thought it was the Blackjack stock pipe following. It was suggested I had a pebble in the pipe. Well, it didn't rattle at idle nor on the center stand. I went to bed wondering what was wrong. In the morning I woke up and search here. Read something about a license plate screw, so I ran down to my scoot hoping beyond hope it was that.

Nope, the bottom bracket of the pipe is cracked and while neither has totally broken through. It's just cracked and makes the worst noise when I'm riding.

So disappointing :( It is 9mos old :(

I didn't get to finish my trip. The roads were too rough to risk it. The guys I'm with got some wire and tied it to the scoot. I made it the 140 miles home so that's good. I just don't know what to do next.
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toycoma98
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Post by toycoma98 »

You can get it rewelded in a shop that does stainless steel. Or get a GY6 exhaust like mine.


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Post by Anachronism »

Baling wire and duct tape fixes all. Gives it charm.
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Post by rsrider »

First, see if this is a warranty issue. Contact the sellers and tell them the situation. If you don't get a replacement, don't sweat it. Stainless can be welded, no problem. Just need find a shop that does it. I had the pipe on my Daytona 650 welded, and it was fine.
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Post by BuddyLicious »

toycoma98,

What all was involved when putting on your GY6 exhaust,did you have to modify and adjust your mixture etc? Looks sick! Thanks.
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Kaos
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Post by Kaos »

I just re-welded my Prima for the third time yesterday. I said screw it this time and did a TON of re-enforcement welds. I'm pretty sure it'll never break again, but it is a little bit uglier for the effort.
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Lostmycage
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Post by Lostmycage »

I've been wondering for a while why they didn't just make a strap hanger instead of the {poorly} welded on brackets. With the thick iron of the stock anchor/exhaust, having the brackets makes perfect sense. The Prima is a different story. I really think it'd be a lot cleaner if they did use a strap, they could even offer color options for the straps to match the stock paint codes, or go with a Stainless steel like I did for my Prima exhaust on the Blur.
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Kaos
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Post by Kaos »

Lostmycage wrote:I've been wondering for a while why they didn't just make a strap hanger instead of the {poorly} welded on brackets. With the thick iron of the stock anchor/exhaust, having the brackets makes perfect sense. The Prima is a different story. I really think it'd be a lot cleaner if they did use a strap, they could even offer color options for the straps to match the stock paint codes, or go with a Stainless steel like I did for my Prima exhaust on the Blur.
I've wondered that myself. I've also seriously thought about grinding off the brackets and MAKING it a strap pipe.
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Lostmycage
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Post by Lostmycage »

Kaos wrote: I've wondered that myself. I've also seriously thought about grinding off the brackets and MAKING it a strap pipe.
You can find stainless steel straps made for the coffee-can "mufflers" for street cars pretty cheap and just cut and trim them down. That's what I did. I think I found one in the clearance bin for a couple bucks. :) Sandwiching the muffler between two straps would make it take vibrations a little easier as well (which is likely the main cause for the Prima weld failures. The SS straping is also wide enough to cover the areas where you would have ground off the welds on the brackets.

Given the ammount of miles you put on yours, I'd maybe start looking around for one of those straps for the next time it breaks, or for the next Prima pipe you get, lol.
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Kaos
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Post by Kaos »

Lostmycage wrote:
Kaos wrote: I've wondered that myself. I've also seriously thought about grinding off the brackets and MAKING it a strap pipe.
You can find stainless steel straps made for the coffee-can "mufflers" for street cars pretty cheap and just cut and trim them down. That's what I did. I think I found one in the clearance bin for a couple bucks. :) Sandwiching the muffler between two straps would make it take vibrations a little easier as well (which is likely the main cause for the Prima weld failures. The SS straping is also wide enough to cover the areas where you would have ground off the welds on the brackets.

Given the ammount of miles you put on yours, I'd maybe start looking around for one of those straps for the next time it breaks, or for the next Prima pipe you get, lol.
Heh, not a bad idea. Though my current welds are REALLY heavy duty :) I think there's more weld material than original bracket now :)
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Post by toycoma98 »

BuddyLicious wrote:toycoma98,

What all was involved when putting on your GY6 exhaust,did you have to modify and adjust your mixture etc? Looks sick! Thanks.
The header flange is different from stock. I used a GY6 exhaust gasket and some high heat silicone permatex. Bracket was modified, lower mount was bent and beaten to make it straighter. I drilled a hole on the stock exhaust bracket and bolted it on.

I'm using a 105 (stock was 92) jet and removed that wall/tube in the airbox.
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Kaos
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Post by Kaos »

toycoma98 wrote:
BuddyLicious wrote:toycoma98,

What all was involved when putting on your GY6 exhaust,did you have to modify and adjust your mixture etc? Looks sick! Thanks.
The header flange is different from stock. I used a GY6 exhaust gasket and some high heat silicone permatex. Bracket was modified, lower mount was bent and beaten to make it straighter. I drilled a hole on the stock exhaust bracket and bolted it on.

I'm using a 105 (stock was 92) jet and removed that wall/tube in the airbox.
Can you describe HOW the flange is different?
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Post by kneil67@yahoo.com »

every thime i get ready for a prima pipe purchase one of these post come up to change my mind. do you all save your stock exhaust? just in case :?
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toycoma98
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Post by toycoma98 »

Kaos wrote:
toycoma98 wrote:
BuddyLicious wrote:toycoma98,

What all was involved when putting on your GY6 exhaust,did you have to modify and adjust your mixture etc? Looks sick! Thanks.
The header flange is different from stock. I used a GY6 exhaust gasket and some high heat silicone permatex. Bracket was modified, lower mount was bent and beaten to make it straighter. I drilled a hole on the stock exhaust bracket and bolted it on.

I'm using a 105 (stock was 92) jet and removed that wall/tube in the airbox.
Can you describe HOW the flange is different?
GY6 flange doesn't use the ring type gasket. Its just flat, so i used a GY6 type flat gasket and some Permatex. Also used washers allong with the stock nuts.
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Kaos
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Post by Kaos »

toycoma98 wrote:
Kaos wrote:
toycoma98 wrote: The header flange is different from stock. I used a GY6 exhaust gasket and some high heat silicone permatex. Bracket was modified, lower mount was bent and beaten to make it straighter. I drilled a hole on the stock exhaust bracket and bolted it on.

I'm using a 105 (stock was 92) jet and removed that wall/tube in the airbox.
Can you describe HOW the flange is different?
GY6 flange doesn't use the ring type gasket. Its just flat, so i used a GY6 type flat gasket and some Permatex. Also used washers allong with the stock nuts.
Ahh, ok. So the flange FITS fine, just uses the other style gasket. The Prima actually uses a flat gasket as well.
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toycoma98
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Post by toycoma98 »

I didn't know about the Prima.

The holes on the flange was a little small so i drilled it bigger. Filing will work too.

Dont think ANY GY6 exhaust will work. I just got lucky finding one that i could modify and fit.
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Post by BuddyLicious »

If I'm not mistaken I have seen more than my fair share of failed Prima pipes.The obvious question of course is,is Prima doing something like a re-designed pipe? A recall? If they have been replacing bad ones how are they making it financially? Surely I'm missing something here or missed a whole thread(s) of answers.What say you? Thanks.
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Kaos
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Post by Kaos »

BuddyLicious wrote:If I'm not mistaken I have seen more than my fair share of failed Prima pipes.The obvious question of course is,is Prima doing something like a re-designed pipe? A recall? If they have been replacing bad ones how are they making it financially? Surely I'm missing something here or missed a whole thread(s) of answers.What say you? Thanks.
Yes many have failed. I'm on my 4th. And its been re-welded twice. They *HAVE* changed the bracket design a few months ago, and it LOOKS like it would be stronger. I've not yet seen one in person though.
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Post by ericalm »

Occasionally a company will issue a voluntary recall for a product with a flaw or defect. But a "recall" usually implies that there's a serious safety issue involved or that the product us in violation of some federal regulation.

In this kind of instance, especially if there's an improved version available, I suggest marching it back to the dealer ASAP. If they can't fix it satisfactorily, ask for one of the new ones as a replacement.
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Post by KRUSTYburger »

I've never had any issues with the one I got (used) from djelliot. I probably put 5k on it and
who knows how many he had on it first. Not to mention I tend to like to ramp things... :roll:
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Post by gearhead »

my gf's first prima pipe cracked in half taking an 80 mile trip to see me. it happens. she's on her 2nd prima pipe now and im hoping it wont happen again.
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Post by Milktown »

a while back i was braggin that iv had my prima pipe on for about 16k and no problems... well on my ride from chicago to madison and back yesterday herd a hissing sound. took a look and wouldnt you know it 3 out of the 4 welds are cracked off.
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Post by bigbropgo »

I think you guys are on the right track with the strap hanger. Wonder if you used a long bolt with a rubber bushing in the middle. Sandwiched between the mounting bracket and the new strap. It would allow for the vibration that seems to be tearing the welds. If it was a weight or proper placement issue for the strap. You could Fab up a small extension for the stock bracket. (Just brainstorming, I don't even have one). :D
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Post by Hipnerd »

So is this issue resolved with new pipes? Or should I wait for a fix. I'm somewhat interested in this mod both as a performance upgrade and for aesthetic reasons.
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Post by Kaos »

Hipnerd wrote:So is this issue resolved with new pipes? Or should I wait for a fix. I'm somewhat interested in this mod both as a performance upgrade and for aesthetic reasons.
Its SUPPOSED to be fixed, they have changed the design and so far I've not heard of a failure.
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Post by Vic »

And when was the fix supposedly made effective? I have a friend that got a Prima for her Vespa for Christmas, she got to take it out ONCE this spring and it failed and she had her husband put the stock one back on. She is not interested in trying again, either.
.
I have thought about this, assuming I ever get my Buddy back up and running again. My son will be getting his license next spring and he is interested in my Buddy, I think a Buddy would be a great starter vehicle for him. I think if it sounded fabulous he would like it even better. But, the last thing I need to do is add something else that will fail, I can't even keep it running at 99.9% stock.
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Post by Kaos »

Vic wrote:And when was the fix supposedly made effective? I have a friend that got a Prima for her Vespa for Christmas, she got to take it out ONCE this spring and it failed and she had her husband put the stock one back on. She is not interested in trying again, either.
.
I have thought about this, assuming I ever get my Buddy back up and running again. My son will be getting his license next spring and he is interested in my Buddy, I think a Buddy would be a great starter vehicle for him. I think if it sounded fabulous he would like it even better. But, the last thing I need to do is add something else that will fail, I can't even keep it running at 99.9% stock.
.
-v
The only pipe that I KNOW got changed was the Buddy one. I've seen it, its different. I have no idea about the Vespa pipe.

Take a look at the bracket here <img src="http://www.scooterworks.com/images/Prod ... d/PE31.jpg">
They've made it more of a T shape, vs the V shaped bracket before. This provides more surface to weld to the can, so it SHOULD be stronger. Never personally tried it though. I will say when I re-welded my Prima, thats exactly how I did it and its not broken again.
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Post by toycoma98 »

I know this is an old thread. The upper bracket broke off my Prima, so...

I have an idea, i have energy suspension polyurethane red bushings from an old set of automotive shocks. I was thinking of using that instead of the metal spacers that the Prima exhaust comes with. I can put washers to make it spaced right and the bushing will absorb the vibrations instead of the weld seams. The lower bracket is still on so i can only put it on that.

What do you guys think?
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Post by gearhead »

thats a great idea. i could use that same technique to reduce vibrations on the whole scooter
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Post by Kaos »

I welded the ever-loving crap outa the brackets and never had another issue. It lasted a ton more miles in my Buddy, and so far is good in the Smallframe Vespa my stock Buddy motor is now in :)
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Post by HowHH »

Welds currently holding on the Prima pipe. I did, however, pick up a back-up pipe during the Scooterworks holiday sales (for when the old pipe is no longer so shiney), so I guess I'm covered if a weld goes.

Now, I would like to know how you got a Buddy motor into a Vespa frame?
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Post by Kaos »

HowHH wrote:Welds currently holding on the Prima pipe. I did, however, pick up a back-up pipe during the Scooterworks holiday sales (for when the old pipe is no longer so shiney), so I guess I'm covered if a weld goes.

Now, I would like to know how you got a Buddy motor into a Vespa frame?
The same way I got a Vespa GTS250ie engine into my Buddy, lots of cutting and welding :P
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Post by BuddyRaton »

I went NCY
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Kaos
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Post by Kaos »

BuddyRaton wrote:I went NCY
I've heard there's not performance gain with that pipe though, how'd it work out for you?
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Post by BuddyRaton »

Kaos wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:I went NCY
I've heard there's not performance gain with that pipe though, how'd it work out for you?

I went with the 161 kit, stock head, air box mod, dr pulley with 11 gram and upsized the carb. I am VERY pleased with the results. I got what I was looking for...a good increase in power over pretty much the full range.

I never expect much performance gain from a 4T exhaust swap except to let it breath a little better. I'm used to the 2T expansion chambers where when you hit the sweet spot its like the afterburners kicking in!

Oh yeah...starting a custom 2T build... :mrgreen:
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Post by easy »

how does the ncy pipe sound
what did you trade the day for?
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Post by BuddyRaton »

easy wrote:how does the ncy pipe sound
Nice...throaty but not obnoxious. Thats about the best I can describe it.
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Post by Kaos »

BuddyRaton wrote: Oh yeah...starting a custom 2T build... :mrgreen:
Ohh, I wanna hear about that :) I'm doing that to one of my Super's right now too :)
I've got 3 project bikes going on at the same time :P
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Post by gearhead »

Kaos wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote: Oh yeah...starting a custom 2T build... :mrgreen:
Ohh, I wanna hear about that :) I'm doing that to one of my Super's right now too :)
I've got 3 project bikes going on at the same time :P
update those threads please :D
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Post by easy »

I love the sound of my Black Jack at idle but its too loud at speed or hell I might be too old
what did you trade the day for?
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Post by toycoma98 »

So i replaced the spacer (lower) for the Prima exhaust with a automotive shock absorber bushing. I used the bushing and a washer, its a perfect fit. I hope the Prima bracket mounts wont break anymore.

A rubber bushing is always better than a metal spacer. If you can find a bushing, replace the spacer with it before the bracket breaks.
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toycoma98
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Post by toycoma98 »

Update:

Grade 8.8 Stainless steel bolt snapped. Image

So i removed the bracket attatched to the scooter and cut off the welded nut behind it. I think thats what was causing the bolt to snap.

I used a nut and bolt with lock washer and washer. I hope this works.
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Post by Raiderfn31 »

toycoma98 wrote:You can get it rewelded in a shop that does stainless steel. Or get a GY6 exhaust like mine.


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Post by toycoma98 »

Thanks.

Those are old pics, i was talking about the Prima Exhaust brackets.
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