Project: BIG BAD VOODOO BUDDY

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:01 am

gearhead wrote:yesss! now get it running!

Should be soon. I haven't gotten my spark plug wire and boot yet, thats the only thing I need to start it. I'll have to get the radiator, variator weights, and a belt installed before I can RIDE it, but I can at least start it

Luckily all that should be delivered tomorrow or the next day.

Then we can see if I got all the wiring right

Mr Miller · Post by **Mr Miller** » Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:05 pm

Eeee! So exciting, I bet you can't wait to get that puppy fired up. And the big ride is this weekend;)

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:08 pm

Mr Miller wrote:Eeee! So exciting, I bet you can't wait to get that puppy fired up. And the big ride is this weekend;)

That would be a fantastic first ride for it too. Well see if I get it together by then

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:41 pm

Ok, got my coolant reservoir, radiator hoses, and coil wire today. Just gotta run down to Vespa PDX for some rollers and pickup a few bolts and I've got everything I need to finish this baby

gearhead · Post by **gearhead** » Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:55 pm

whoooooo! video update! yeah!

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:39 am

Man Kaos, you put this machine together quick! Bravo to you sir!

SuiSkoot · Post by **SuiSkoot** » Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:36 am

this thread deserves all caps FIRST OFF ..LOVE IT SO AWESOM MAN I RECENTLY STUFFED AS BIG OF A TIRE I COULD SQUEEZE WITHOUT CUTTING THE CASE ...DID HAVE TO LIFT THE SUSPENSION LOL

...JUST WONDERING WHERE ARE YOU GONNA MOUNT TH WHEELIE BAR?

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:31 pm

SuiSkoot wrote:this thread deserves all caps FIRST OFF ..LOVE IT SO AWESOM MAN I RECENTLY STUFFED AS BIG OF A TIRE I COULD SQUEEZE WITHOUT CUTTING THE CASE ...DID HAVE TO LIFT THE SUSPENSION LOL

...JUST WONDERING WHERE ARE YOU GONNA MOUNT TH WHEELIE BAR?

Heh, still working that one out

The rear tire is about 2 inches farther back and 2 inches BIGGER than the stock one, so it'll add a little bit of anti-wheelie help right there. I'm hoping just a good lean forward can keep it down, but we'll see

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:50 pm

Ok, question guys. The gts engine is ground to case right?
because wired that way the starter runs backwards.

gearhead · Post by **gearhead** » Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:21 pm

isnt that how most scooter starters are ground?

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:38 pm

gearhead wrote:isnt that how most scooter starters are ground?

That's what I. thought, but this one wants to run backwards when I do that. Doesn't make any sense.

OopsClunkThud · Post by **OopsClunkThud** » Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:28 pm

you sure it's backwards? should be turning clockwise, turning the idler gear CCW and the crank CW (from the flywheel side).

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:30 pm

OopsClunkThud wrote:you sure it's backwards? should be turning clockwise, turning the idler gear CCW and the crank CW (from the flywheel side).

Yep. Its turning the crank ring gear CCW, which just results in it spinning and not actually turning the crank.

Its the most bizarre thing I've ever seen. I touched the starter wire strait to the battery and had the same results.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:01 pm

I may have missed it in the thread somewhere but what did you end up using for a fuel pump?

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:02 pm

Dave wrote:I may have missed it in the thread somewhere but what did you end up using for a fuel pump?

I've got a small generic electric pump. I don't yet know if it'll work, as I'm working on the reason that the starter is spinning backwards right now.

gearhead · Post by **gearhead** » Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:02 am

Kaos wrote:
gearhead wrote:isnt that how most scooter starters are ground?
That's what I. thought, but this one wants to run backwards when I do that. Doesn't make any sense.

too bad there is no kick start

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:30 am

gearhead wrote:
Kaos wrote:
gearhead wrote:isnt that how most scooter starters are ground?
That's what I. thought, but this one wants to run backwards when I do that. Doesn't make any sense.
too bad there is no kick start

Yeah thats a little frustrateing, I wanted to start it today.

gearhead · Post by **gearhead** » Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:49 am

attach an impact to the variator to manually start it

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:51 am

gearhead wrote:attach an impact to the variator to manually start it

Ohh never thought of that. I like the way you think

gearhead · Post by **gearhead** » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:21 am

yessir! 2 minds are better than one

ScooterTrash · Post by **ScooterTrash** » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:29 am

Kaos wrote:
gearhead wrote:attach an impact to the variator to manually start it
Ohh never thought of that. I like the way you think

just dont sheer off the crank

bigbropgo · Post by **bigbropgo** » Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:04 am

Jinx

OopsClunkThud · Post by **OopsClunkThud** » Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:46 pm

gearhead wrote:attach an impact to the variator to manually start it

without a belt this would be ok, but otherwise don't run it without the cover on. the clutch shaft is supported by the cover.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:50 pm

OopsClunkThud wrote:
gearhead wrote:attach an impact to the variator to manually start it
without a belt this would be ok, but otherwise don't run it without the cover on. the clutch shaft is supported by the cover.

Yeah, I was thinking of doing it just to start it, not ride it that way.

I also just got a message from the person I got the motor from, he apparently DOES have the master key for the engine, so I should be able to keep the injection after all!

gearhead · Post by **gearhead** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:23 am

did it start?!?

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:26 am

gearhead wrote:did it start?!?

The starter issue turned out to be a wiring problem, the starter turns it over, but I'm not getting any spark yet.

Since I don't yet have the master key for the injected ECU, I'm trying to run it carbureted with the GY6 CDI. It doesn't currently seem to be working, so I'm in that hellish wiring issue stage. I did get everything else on the bike totally bolted down and done except the body panels though.... Maybe tomorrow.

EDIT: Ok, after looking through the wiring info at Totalruckus.com(Because the Buddy wiring diagrams are AWFUL) I think I know what I did wrong. We'll start this baby yet!!!!

OopsClunkThud · Post by **OopsClunkThud** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:14 am

The cdi on the gts is not a single pickup. there is a ring with 23 (i think) teeth on it with one open space. this allows it to know crank position as well as TDC to fire the injector while the intake valve is open. When the bike first starts it sparks on every revolution while running through a dance with the injector and the lambda sensor to figure out what cycle it's on (scavenging vs compression/power). Then it switches to firing only on the compression/power revolution.

So to switch it to another CDI you would need to add a more conventional pickup as well.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:54 pm

OopsClunkThud wrote:The cdi on the gts is not a single pickup. there is a ring with 23 (i think) teeth on it with one open space. this allows it to know crank position as well as TDC to fire the injector while the intake valve is open. When the bike first starts it sparks on every revolution while running through a dance with the injector and the lambda sensor to figure out what cycle it's on (scavenging vs compression/power). Then it switches to firing only on the compression/power revolution.

So to switch it to another CDI you would need to add a more conventional pickup as well.

You're just a wealth of information OopsClunkThud, thanks

gearhead · Post by **gearhead** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:32 am

Wiring is a pita

remember, the video camera. lol

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:35 am

gearhead wrote:Wiring is a pita

remember, the video camera. lol

At least the gy6 is simple. Injection isn't.

gearhead · Post by **gearhead** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:08 pm

Did you have to make your own harness?!

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:11 pm

gearhead wrote:Did you have to make your own harness?!

No, I've got the GTS harness, its just figuring out what goes where when a lot of the connectors appear interchangeable

That and figuring out which parts of the Buddy harness I'm going to keep and which parts I'm going to replace.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:35 am

Well, after playing with the stator all afternoon, I just can't seem to get the stator to output any sort of sane voltages.

It seems to output about 5VAC on all three pins while cranking. This isn't enough to power up the Buddy CDI and fire the plug.

Looks like I'll just have to bite the bullet and replace the GTS ECU with one that I can get keys for :/

gearhead · Post by **gearhead** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:03 am

Edit with post below

gearhead · Post by **gearhead** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:03 am

U were trying the run the gts with the buddy cdi?

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:11 am

gearhead wrote:U were trying the run the gts with the buddy cdi?

Yeah, since the GTS ECU is missing the master key, I was going for plan B.

Unfortunately thats not working, I'm just going to have to buckle down and buy another GTS ECU.

gearhead · Post by **gearhead** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:53 am

ouch.. must be $$$$

hope everything works out

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:04 am

Kaos wrote:
gearhead wrote:U were trying the run the gts with the buddy cdi?
Yeah, since the GTS ECU is missing the master key, I was going for plan B.

Unfortunately thats not working, I'm just going to have to buckle down and buy another GTS ECU.

You could try using a 12v dc CDI. I believe the Honda Helix uses one. But they're expensive. You can also get a cheap chinese one as well. Then you'll only need to use the vespa stator's pulse generator, no need for an exciter coil.

Try CF Moto...

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:07 am

Dave wrote:
Kaos wrote:
gearhead wrote:U were trying the run the gts with the buddy cdi?
Yeah, since the GTS ECU is missing the master key, I was going for plan B.

Unfortunately thats not working, I'm just going to have to buckle down and buy another GTS ECU.
You could try using a 12v dc CDI. I believe the Honda Helix uses one. But they're expensive. You can also get a cheap chinese one as well. Then you'll only need to use the vespa stator's pulse generator, no need for an exciter coil.

Try CF Moto...

Ohh, there's an interesting thought. I'd never considered going with a DC CDI. That'd be a cheap enough solution it might be worth trying before I deal with the cost of a GTS ECU.

I was talking to the owner of a key shop that USED to be able to reprogram GTS ECUs and he suggested that the latest Piaggio Fly 150's CDI might be a drop in replacement for the GTS one. I've been doing some research on that as well.

gearhead · Post by **gearhead** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:59 pm

how much is a brand new gts ecu? might as well just fork over the money for it and not spend anymore than you have to.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:19 am

gearhead wrote:how much is a brand new gts ecu? might as well just fork over the money for it and not spend anymore than you have to.

Its $550. That's why im looking for an alternative cdi.

gearhead · Post by **gearhead** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:34 am

yikes.... might have my blur motor in my ruckus before you get yours running

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:45 am

buggypartsnw sells both ac and dc cdi's. not sure if they have what you need but it's another possibility.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:21 am

Tocsik wrote:buggypartsnw sells both ac and dc cdi's. not sure if they have what you need but it's another possibility.

I found a dc cdi I think should work. Hopefully :/

dawg onit · Post by **dawg onit** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:33 am

gearhead wrote:yikes.... might have my blur motor in my ruckus before you get yours running

Kaos, the totalfuckas (just a joke, I wouldn't mind a ruckus), crowd is jack'n Genuine motors to keep up. You are throwing in a motor that is unheard of in the buddy world. Just want to give you much respect. I obviously am not as skilled as you, gearhead, and many others I could name that know way more than me.

Truth is I enjoy this thread and your progress. What I think is super cool is how everybody supports your task, that's props to everybody, with the parts donated and advise galore. Just do us all a favor & whoop any body any time once you get that voodoo to the next level.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:48 pm

dawg onit wrote:
gearhead wrote:yikes.... might have my blur motor in my ruckus before you get yours running
Kaos, the totalfuckas (just a joke, I wouldn't mind a ruckus), crowd is jack'n Genuine motors to keep up. You are throwing in a motor that is unheard of in the buddy world. Just want to give you much respect. I obviously am not as skilled as you, gearhead, and many others I could name that know way more than me.

Truth is I enjoy this thread and your progress. What I think is super cool is how everybody supports your task, that's props to everybody, with the parts donated and advise galore. Just do us all a favor & whoop any body any time once you get that voodoo to the next level.

Heh, as far as I can tell nobody has swapped a GTS motor into ANYTHING

Which is both cool in that I'm the first, and frustrating because I'm having to find all the kinks myself

We'll get it on the road though. Its nearly there...

ScooterTrash · Post by **ScooterTrash** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:49 pm

Too late kaos, I swapped a gts motor into a dumpster once

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:11 pm

ScooterTrash wrote:Too late kaos, I swapped a gts motor into a dumpster once

Aww, man and here I thought I was being original. I'll bet that dumpster was really hard to balance on only 2 wheels though....

ScooterTrash · Post by **ScooterTrash** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:44 pm

Kaos wrote:
ScooterTrash wrote:Too late kaos, I swapped a gts motor into a dumpster once
Aww, man and here I thought I was being original. I'll bet that dumpster was really hard to balance on only 2 wheels though....

Yeah, didn't work out too well

OopsClunkThud · Post by **OopsClunkThud** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:44 pm

Kaos wrote:Heh, as far as I can tell nobody has swapped a GTS motor into ANYTHING Which is both cool in that I'm the first, and frustrating because I'm having to find all the kinks myself

We'll get it on the road though. Its nearly there...

Friend of mine swapped a GTS engine into a Skipper
http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/viewto ... per#982988