Permit renewal in California??

malakai · Post by **malakai** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:27 pm

What is required to renew the permit after the initial year in California???
Moving soon to Florida, but want to renew here in California (due next week) to take MSF in the new state.

Thanks you all![/b]

ilektron · Post by **ilektron** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:35 pm

I'm not sure what you mean by 'permit', Learner's permit? Having recently moved to California and suffered from the DMV I can at least tell you what I had to do. I bought my scooter about 2 weeks before I moved to CA, in addition I went and got a motorcycle endorsement in Utah before I moved. When I moved, my scooter still had temp UT tags and I had a UT paper temp license until they mailed the real thing to me.

California wouldn't let me register the scooter until I received the title from the dealer in UT, which required some mailing back and forth between the dealer and the credit union through whom I had the loan. That alone was a mess. California also wouldn't give me a California license until I surrender my official UT license. I couldn't get my UT license because the state wouldn't forwarded it out of state. Eventually I had my real UT license mailed to somebody who then forwarded it to me, so I could immediately hand it to CA to get a CA license.

Because I bought the scooter out of state, they had to look all over it to find all the emissions info. I recommend finding the info first yourself before you go to register it, so that you can show the DMV person inspection your scooter.

Also, because I already had a motorcycle endorsement in UT, all I had to do was to pass the written test and I got my endorsement in CA.

Ah, the memories. To make it worse, after living here for a month, trying to get this straightened out, I got pulled over and spent 20-25 minutes explaining to the cop why I hadn't gotten everything taken care of yet. And another 10 explaining how I wasn't trying to run from him, but that is another story.

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:17 pm

CA Motorcycle permit is renewable every year. You just have to pay $28 (could be more now).

Yes, CAMVC does require you to surrender your previous driver's license from another state in order to get a CA DL.

malakai · Post by **malakai** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:16 pm

pcbikedude wrote:CA Motorcycle permit is renewable every year. You just have to pay $28 (could be more now).

Yes, CAMVC does require you to surrender your previous driver's license from another state in order to get a CA DL.

Yes, the above. when I bought my 125 the dealer did all the paperwork and I could ride it the same day, since I requested the permit (and got it) a few hours before I bought it. Only a written test was necessary.

So, now I am moving to Florida and need to know what to expect arriving there with a California driver's permit. Anyone from Florida?

malakai · Post by **malakai** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:07 pm

It gets complicated! i went to renew my rider's permit (or learner's permit?) which lets me ride during the day hours no passenger until I pass t he MDF. OK... It was to expire the next day so I was in a hurry.

They made me take: 1) the mc written test plus.. 2) the driver's written test . I was not prepared for that- but I took them both and passed. In addition, which I was not expecting either, the said that I was ADDING my mc license to the DRIVER'S license. That is not how I did it the first time!!!

First Time: I took a MC written test (no drivign test) and got a pernit to ride my MC. Just that.

What is wrong here? My driver's license expires in 2013, so I hope I am not going to get a new Driver's license with an expiration dat eof 2011 like the MC's. To make things worst, I had topay $31, not $28.

I also claimed that the DMV web page states that athe MC's permit renewal only requires a written test, not two!

I think the woman that handed me the papers handed me the wrong one.

Since I will be moving to another state before December, I wanted to have thinsg straight here --and be able to ride teh erst of the season-- so I can minimize problems when I get to that state.

rayk · Post by **rayk** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:39 pm

There are 2 things here.
1) the "permit". What you originally had, allowing you to ride during daylight, etc.
2) the M1 "endorsement". This is appended to your regular CA Driver's license (Class C for autos). Once you get the M1 added, it's good for as long as the license is valid. They get renewed together.

Yes, it seems like she misunderstood what you wanted.

Also, as it's been 46 years since I had my permit, I can't recall if that's renewable after the 6 months, but think it is. That's what you were attempting to get - a permit renewal.

Good luck. I've lived in Ca all my life, and life with the CA DMV can be daunting.

Ray

malakai · Post by **malakai** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:48 pm

I am repeating myself here, but I am still worried about the consequences.
2) I went on the line At Simi Valley DMV and requested a renewal of the MC1 year permit that I showed her. Filled it, waited 2 hours

2)Well, I asked the second woman taking my money and handing me the tests: Verify that this is the right form for a renewal of my scooter permit. I wanted a renewal of the original permit, as you said, which is for a year, not six months. She said yes and would not budge when I said; “I do not want to ad my MC permit to the drivers license”. No change in attitude.

Anyway, I want to know how this is going to affect my permit now or my driver's license.

--- Is it going to extend my MC permit for as long as I have the driver's license or what?

--- Or is it going to shorten the 2013 expiration date on my DRIVER'S license?

Sorry for the saga, I really wish these people had been more helpful and less cryptic and cold.

dsmith65 · Post by **dsmith65** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:54 pm

Normaly your MC endorsement expires when your DL does. I don't think anyone can say for sure that CA wont mess yours up. That being said here a link with Florida's license laws. Every state is different, some don't even offer a learnerss permits for an MC

http://www.dmvflorida.org/motorcycle-license.shtml

Korova · Post by **Korova** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:59 pm

In California, if you haven't taken a car written test in over a year they make you take it when you go in for a motorcycle written test.

Sucks when you're not expecting it.

I imagine Florida will not honor a California Learners Permit? So you would probably have get a new one there. Each state has different things you can and cannot do with a permit. I've heard some states require you to ride with an experienced rider if you only have a learners permit.

You didn't really "renew" your California permit, you just got a new one.

There is no separate "motorcycle license" (although there might a M1 only license if you don't have a car...), you get a second class added to your Class C drivers license you already have. It does not change the renewal date for your driver license (i.e. it will still expire on your birthday in 2013). Your permit is only good for another year and if you don't have the M1 class added to it again you will have to go through this again.

When you renew your drivers license it renews the M1 along with it, although you pay a slightly higher cost to renew both classes. I do not recommend EVER letting your license renew without paying the cost to renew the M1 as that means you have to start this whole thing over again... I didn't pay for the M1 when I moved from washington because I thought I was done riding... well I was wrong......

Korova · Post by **Korova** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:02 pm

Just to clarify what you are calling a permit is only a temporary learners permit good for a year and with certain riding restrictions. It is probably only valid in CA and it is supposed to lead to you adding the M1 class to your license.

My suggestion is to get that riding test done in CA and then only worry about this when your license expires in 2013 or you get your florida license

When you move to Florida and you don't have that M1 added to your CA license, I imagine the first thing you will have to do is get a new learners permit from the Florida DMV, which means more testing.

edit: It looks like the Florida learners permit is only valid for 90 days. So if you do move to Florida without the M1 added to your CA license, then you will have to get a permit there and have 90 days to take the riding test or pay for another permit.

If you get the M1 added to your CA license first (by taking the riding test) then you can convert your CA license along with the M1 to a Florida license. I'm not sure if Florida makes you take a written test when you do that (some states don't, california does) but you will most likely have to pay a fee. You are supposed to get a new state license within 30 days of moving but I waited until my license was about to expire when I moved from WA to CA...

Sorry for the long winded response.. I think the simplest way to say it is: Your CA learners permit is probably not valid in Florida and you will have to get one there if you plan on operating your scooter before you take the driving test in Florida.

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:34 pm

I would try to get the M1 endorsement in CA before you move. Florida is now the second state to make the MSF mandatory to get your motorcycle endorsement. I don't know how much it costs or how backed-up the classes are, but here in the little Rhody, the first state to require the MSF to get your *ahem* H restriction (which is a motorcycle endorsement), the classes are backed up for months. You cannot get your permit until you take the class. Which means, no legal riding. And, you have to pay for the class.

Krusty, where are you? Can you weigh in?

malakai · Post by **malakai** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:26 am

“Just to clarify what you are calling a permit is only a temporary learners permit good for a year and with certain riding restrictions. It is probably only valid in CA and it is supposed to lead to you adding the M1 class to your license.

Yes, I know... It's a permit and it is temporary.

I still wonder if I should sell my 125 and forget about riding. How much I would loose selling it (2009, 141 miles) and what would I buy there.

Thanks you 'all. It's been nice here

Tee Jay · Post by **Tee Jay** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:24 pm

I'm not sure that we're talking apples for apples but. It sounds like what I just went through. I got the CA temporary permit, it is good for 1 year. In that time you are expected to complete either the MSF course ($250.00 but well worth it). Or the driving test given by DMV. If you do not complete those you regular driving (class C) license will be terminated. No matter what the expiration date of your class "C". I had to take a written test for the class C just to be able to drive for work. In the MSF (motorcyle safety course) there were a couple of people who had waited till 3 days left on their permit to take (the hands on)driving test. I highly recommend the MSF course. I've put around 30k miles on 2 wheels, but it still helps. If you are that late you can take it at the DMV. Go to you tube and there are a couple of videos that you are tested on.
Good luck!

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:10 pm

i have been practicing and riding without a permit here in C.A. being i only go a few miles and into a parking lot, i feel ok about it. i am also insured to ride, which i find strange being i am not "legal" to ride in any other way. i don't think i could get insured to ride with no license if it were a car.

i will be taking my permit tests next week and will get my full endorsement asap

Cali has some weird restrictions and rules and what not. such a lot of mess just to ride a MC. it seems like they are trying to protect the rider, which i kind of understand, but kind of not.

no night riding with a permit? no freeway riding? any terrible driver can go get licensed to drive a 4000lb deadly weapon like a cage, but if you want to ride a motorcycle which couldn't kill anything if it struck something or damage any property, you have to jump through hoops!

it's stupid.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:18 am

I don't understand why you are trying to avoid getting an M endorsement right now. Florida, or most any other state, would recognize that when you convert your drivers license. Second, I'm not understanding why you care whether your CA license expires in 2011 or 2013. If you are moving to FL later this year, you are turning in your CA license and getting a FL one anyway. DMVs don't refund the "unused" portion of your license fee.

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:35 am

i'd just get the endorsement in California...whats the difference? FL will recognize it. That said, have any states switched to scooter vs MC license? (the difference being cc's not auto vs shifter)

Now I am hoping California will equally reciprocate. I am going from OH to CA and get test taking nerves (both written and driving) and would hate to take it again.

but will do whatever is needed.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:22 am

peabody99 wrote: That said, have any states switched to scooter vs MC license? (the difference being cc's not auto vs shifter)

Now I am hoping California will equally reciprocate. I am going from OH to CA and get test taking nerves (both written and driving) and would hate to take it again. but will do whatever is needed.

in California the law changed in 2006. for those who used to be able to ride 50cc scooters without a license or registration, i suppose it's a curse. but for new riders like me (or new resident's like you) it will most likely be a blessing

any two wheeled bike, motorcycle, scooter, etc, that is 150cc and up is defined as a "motorcycle." any two wheeled bike, motorcycle, scooter, etc, with a 149cc or below which can exceed 20mph is defined as a "motor driven cycle." lest we confuse it with a motorcycle!

in any case, BOTH motorcycle and motor driven cycle require the same M1 license. so whereas prior to 2006 if you wanted to get licensed to ride a motorcycle, well, you had to take the skills test on a motorcycle. however since the new category of "Motor Driven Cycle" was created and you need the same license to ride one, you can now take the skills portion of the DMV test on a small scooter. which makes it MUCH easier to pass. you can find more information at passdmv.net

so you can take the riding test on a 50cc scooter, and be legal to operate a scoot, or the biggest Harley or fastest sport bike you can handle. which is pretty cool beans imo

lot's of people don't know that. and as you can see from the correspondence the gentleman had with the DMV at passdmv.net, even some DMV employees didn't understand it!

but i do. and when it comes time to get my full endorsement, i'll be riding up on a scoot, easy as can be

lnlthiel · Post by **lnlthiel** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:10 am

Just an FYI...... relocated to CA within the last year, and CA DMV does not recognize M endorsements from other states. We were disappointed, but will do what we have to do to get back on our scoots....

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:32 am

lnlthiel wrote: CA DMV does not recognize M endorsements from other states.

We are talking Florida here. I believe they only require that you take a vision and hearing test when converting a valid license from another state.

paige · Post by **paige** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:38 pm

"no night riding with a permit? no freeway riding? any terrible driver can go get licensed to drive a 4000lb deadly weapon like a cage, but if you want to ride a motorcycle which couldn't kill anything if it struck something or damage any property, you have to jump through hoops! "

You can do a lot of damage with a PTW.

http://cbs5.com/crime/motorcyclist.char ... 02949.html

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:31 pm

JHScoot wrote:Cali has some weird restrictions and rules and what not. such a lot of mess just to ride a MC. it seems like they are trying to protect the rider, which i kind of understand, but kind of not.

no night riding with a permit? no freeway riding? any terrible driver can go get licensed to drive a 4000lb deadly weapon like a cage, but if you want to ride a motorcycle which couldn't kill anything if it struck something or damage any property, you have to jump through hoops!

it's stupid.

There's some disparity there, but in general the hoops are pretty similar: You pass the written test then take a driving/riding skills test. The major limitation on a driving instruction permit is that you need an 18-yr-old licensed driver to accompany you. In some ways the motorcycle permit is more permissive.

The driving test is actually probably closer to reflecting real-world conditions than the ridiculous DMV riding test. They made it harder a couple of years ago and (IMHO) it's probably just encouraged more people to ride without a license.

As paige posted, you can do a lot of damage to others with a motorcycle or a scooter. Even low-speed crash can cause some serious injury or be fatal to both a rider and a pedestrian. In terms of property, a 500+ lb. mass of plastic, metal and human colliding with anything at common riding speeds will probably do some damage. There are many images online of bikes and scooters that have t-boned or rear-ended cars. It's pretty ugly.

Modern Buddy