I'm a Scooter Snob....

[Stormswift]

But if someone emails me a pic of a crap scooter and says, "You'll like this!" I'll probably share my opinion of that machine.

Well.... you did ask so I just couldn't help myself. This was on http://clevelandscooters.com/id60.html

[jasondavis48108]

ohhhh! I want one! I want one! that baby is gonna be a classic!

[illnoise]

That's the thing about Chinese bikes. First, you don't want to stereotype, but on the other hand, the exceptions are rare.

You meet people who insist their chinese bike is great. Theirs may be, but they either got lucky, did research and got a better brand, or they just don't know how much better an experience they'll have with a better bike.

The "ABS" is a perfectly good example of something that's just flat-out life-threateningly bad. If I see someone riding a bike with those crappy "ABS" canisters on it, I feel pity/fear for them, but on the other hand, how do you tell someone their bike is crap, they just get defensive, and of course they do, you would too. And we get defensive when motorcyclists hassle us.

So to each his own, I guess, but I just wish there was a polite way to get the message across to those people that they're really risking their safety, without coming off as smug or acting superior. So I just let it go.

Similar story…

On a recent ride, there was a guy riding a Ruckus (perfectly good bike) but he'd customized the hell out of it, extended the frame, huge back wheel, etc. He was a big guy, and when he sat on it, the way the suspension was set up, I guess the swingarm and shock twisted or something, so his back wheel sat probably 15° off alignment with the frame.

I don't profess to know anything about engineering or physics, but I know you don't want a wheel 15° off angle. And I knew if I said anything to him, he'd probably just get defensive and angry that I was questioning his engineering acumen. I just want the dude to be safe, but I've pointed out enough safety observations to enough strangers (as politely as possible) and I've learned people just don't want to hear it. Which is too bad because if I was leaking oil onto my tire or my brake cable was about to snap, or my taillight is burnt out, I'm telling you all now, please let me know.

[jasondavis48108]

I hear ya illnoise. I'd hope that if something was wrong with one of my scoots that could lead to me to killing myself or at least maiming myself, that someone would take the time to let me know before it happened. Unfortunately it sems that most folks are defensive about this sort of thing and so folks learn to just remain silent.

[Tanuki]

When I first decided that I wanted a scooter, I bought a cheap Chinese 50cc off craigslist for a few hundred bucks. It was absolutely the perfect ride for me at the time. To start with, it was cheap enough that I felt confident riding it. If I dropped it, or dented it up, I knew it wasn't a big deal. It was my only transportation and was small enough that I could park it indoors, which was important in my overcrowded, limited parking, neighborhood. It may not have been the best quality scooter - but it was easy to work on, and it really improved my confidence as a rider.

If I had purchased an expensive scooter with a bigger engine, I'm pretty sure that I would've been totally unprepared for it. My crappy Chinese scooter was the perfect fit for me at the time, and I have absolutely no regrets about it. When I got my Buddy 125 I sold the Chinese bike on Craigslist for $1.00, and the guy who bought it still rides it around today.

In fact, the only real issue I had with my crappy bike was the attitude of "scooter snobs" who treated me like a pariah simply because I couldn't afford, and didn't require, anything else.

[dawg onit]

My crappy Chinese scooter was the perfect fit for me at the time, and I have absolutely no regrets about it. When I got my Buddy 125 I sold the Chinese bike on Craigslist for $1.00, and the guy who bought it still rides it around today.

In fact, the only real issue I had with my crappy bike was the attitude of "scooter snobs" who treated me like a pariah simply because I couldn't afford, and didn't require, anything else.

I wouldn't want the respect of folks that would diss me because of what I was getting around on. My favorite part of your post was the scoot for a 1.00 on craigslist. You must have gotten a million emails.

[okcgravity]

Personally I find this whole "scooter snob" thing to be comical gold. As a new owner of a Buddy 150 I was excited to get into the scooter community. Having owned two motorcycles prior "600cc crotch rocket and 1300 cruiser" I was hoping to find a little more openness than some of the people I rode with before.

And surprise surprise, Same crap different day. You have the vintage guys hating on everyone, The Vespa guys hating the asian bike riders, then the asian bike riders hating on the people on the chinese scoots.

Best part is EVERYONE goes ape when a person on a Motorcycle puts down their scooter. Is the guy on the motorcycle not entitled to like what he likes and think silly what he thinks is silly? Just like many in here think that owning a Chinese scoot is silly?

I mean no offense but anyone who has the guts to roll into traffic on two wheels gets a wave from me and a smile. I have a Harley Rider I pass almost every morning on my way to work and we wave to each other. Then on the way home I usually see a kid or two on their chinese scoots and their flippy floppies who also share a wave with me.

Now the idiot on the sidewalk... thats a whole-nother thing.


*disclaimer* I know some people love all scoots as well. There are generalizations above and I am fully aware of their presence.

[MYSCTR]

Personally I find this whole "scooter snob" thing to be comical gold. As a new owner of a Buddy 150 I was excited to get into the scooter community. I was hoping to find a little more openness than some of the people I rode with before.

And surprise surprise, Same crap different day.

I mean no offense but anyone who has the guts to roll into traffic on two wheels gets a wave from me and a smile.

WELL SAID - Thank You ! ! !

[ilektron]

Now the idiot on the sidewalk... thats a whole-nother thing.

Are you talking about pedestrians? Snob.

[peabody99]

Why should one be labelled a snob simply for being appalled at others' lack of sense and good taste?

.

LOL. That is the best!

[ericalm]

Personally I find this whole "scooter snob" thing to be comical gold. As a new owner of a Buddy 150 I was excited to get into the scooter community. Having owned two motorcycles prior "600cc crotch rocket and 1300 cruiser" I was hoping to find a little more openness than some of the people I rode with before.

And surprise surprise, Same crap different day. You have the vintage guys hating on everyone, The Vespa guys hating the asian bike riders, then the asian bike riders hating on the people on the chinese scoots.

Best part is EVERYONE goes ape when a person on a Motorcycle puts down their scooter. Is the guy on the motorcycle not entitled to like what he likes and think silly what he thinks is silly? Just like many in here think that owning a Chinese scoot is silly?

I mean no offense but anyone who has the guts to roll into traffic on two wheels gets a wave from me and a smile. I have a Harley Rider I pass almost every morning on my way to work and we wave to each other. Then on the way home I usually see a kid or two on their chinese scoots and their flippy floppies who also share a wave with me.

Now the idiot on the sidewalk... thats a whole-nother thing.


*disclaimer* I know some people love all scoots as well. There are generalizations above and I am fully aware of their presence.

Well, as a (Italian-made!) Vespa rider who also owns two Asian scoots, all I can say is: Yeah, pretty much.

As I've said before, there are more similarities between Vespa and Harley owners than either side would care to admit but the big difference is that Harley guys don't whine every time they feel maligned or inaccurately portrayed on TV.

[JHScoot]

its a shame if people who ride scooters are really like that about vintage, Italian, Asian scoots. i like passing whatever scoot is out there on the road.

i think for scooter riders its often more about the chinese clones. i mean Harley riders may have their share of "snobs," but to me that seems sillier, as there is a big difference between a Honda MC and a Chinese scooter in terms of quality and design

its just gotta be a bit of an lol when a guy on a Honda Reflex pulls up next to a guy on a Chinese clone made to look exactly like the Honda. i bet if a typical Harley Sportster rider pulled up next to a Chinese replica of his bike 10 times a day it would bring out a little snob in him, too. especially when its rider might be thinking "ha! you paid four times as much and mine is JUST LIKE YOURS." and he hears that again and again and again....

but its not just like the Honda. not by a long shot. so a person may only have snobby to fall back on when considering someones chinese scoot. after all, they were stupid enough to spend a dollar on a japanese scoot when they could have spent a quarter on a chinese one just like it! so they are bound to be a little bitter

[jasondavis48108]

I was always under the impression that the whole chianese scooter thing wasn't so much about snobbery (of course it's there but not primary) but about safety and reliability. eric has said on multiple occasians that at some point the chianese will get thier quality control in check and probably put out some quality scoots. When POC phil put out is scooter public service announcments about some of the death trap scoots he had been brought, I didn't think this was snobbery but a valuable public service to show folks the dangers of buying a seriously inferior product. I personally don't care what someone rides, but I just hope whatever it was, it was an educated decision. I for one won't be riding a vintage vespa any time soon, but I wouldn't look down on someone who did, I'd just figure that was what they were into and they didn't mind bringing tools and cables along for the ride. To me, reliablity is more important than style, so I have a Honda sh150i, many have said that its way over priced and not particularly attractive, but I didn't take that as snobery, just thier opinion. I think that to seriously look down on folks is pretty foolish, but I also think to look down on folks who are simply having a bit of good hearted fun in a community dedicated to a particular ride is also a bit foolish. If I were with a group of Harley riders I'd excepct to see a bit of good hearted Harely "snobery", same for Vespa, or Honda, or Genuine, or Kymco, or even Q-link It's just natural to think that whatever you ride is awesome and even a bit better than the other choices, after all it's what you decided to buy right?

[TVB]

As I've said before, there are more similarities between Vespa and Harley owners than either side would care to admit

This is something that applies to almost every us-vs-them situation on the planet. There are often differences between this group and that group (moped/scooter/motorcycle/car/truck, men/women, Jews/Christians/Muslims/Hindus/Buddhists/none-of-the-aboves, straight/gay, this country/that country, etc.) But the differences between those groups are always much smaller than the differences within them, to the point that they have far more in common than distinct from each other.

but the big difference is that Harley guys don't whine every time they feel maligned or inaccurately portrayed on TV.

Maybe not all of them and maybe not every time, but I did hear some whining (justified or not) from bikers after that South Park episode making fun of them.

[Stormswift]

When I first looked at scooters I looked at aesthetics (Chinese scoots ARE cute, often come with top boxes, radios alarm systems - you name it). Wiht more research I knew that would not be for me. I know next to nothing about auto mechanics and I have no ability or money to constantly haul a broken down scooter for repairs (not to mention that most of our dealers do not want to work on those scooters). If this was a $1.00 purchase on the Internet - you becha I would have been first one in line to get it so that I can train on it vs risking banging up something like my current ride. But in our area those Chinese models go anywhere from $650 and up. I kind of felt $650 would be a good down payment for something that is more reliable and I would not have a problem with repairing or registering. I agree with Eric on quality control eventually improving for Chinese products, not just scooters. Many of you are too young but I remember when in the 70's -80's no one wanted to touch Taiwanese made TV's or other electronics. Now we all buy the products and we know they are good quality. It takes time.

[JHScoot]

ok i gotta admit if this were my scoot i'd be forced into scooter snobbery

[Stormswift]

[Halloweenie]

Imagine the wet dog smell when that fur covered bike gets wet.

[ilektron]

I swear I've seen a lot of stuff in my life, but that... was... *awesome*.

[JunkyardDog]

I would never even consider buying a Chinese scooter. BUT, there are people who have gotten over 10,000 miles out of them. I have always wanted a vintage Vespa, but could not find one I could afford, or was not afraid was a Vietnamese hatchet job, so I bought a cheap Indian made copy of one (a Stella) It is beautiful, made of real metal, and the engine blew at 389 miles. I am no longer so proud of my Stella. Just because it LOOKS like a vintage Vespa doesn't mean it is one. It's just a cheaply made copy, just like the cheaply made Chinese copies of Hondas. On the other hand, I have never heard of a Honda owner considering themselves a snob. Honda simply does not have the name recognition or owner loyalty or fanaticism of Vespa and Harley owners. Harley and Vespa are the REAL thing, and they are not Asian. But here is another thing. I have owned a Yamaha Vino 125 for almost 3 years, it currently has 14,000 miles on it, it has been ridden at WOT it's whole life, and it has not caused even the tiniest bit of trouble. I would not hesitate to ride it anywhere. But you cannot consider yourself a snob if you ride a Yamaha. It is after all also a copy, just a high quality one. I still want that vintage Vespa. Jerry.

[dawg onit]

So Chinese scooters that cost a grand go 10,000 miles,Vespas are too expensive, Stellas are less reliable than the Chinese scoots and are cheap copies of Vespas, there are no Honda owners that are proud of their scoots, but since you own a Yamaha, you are not a snob. You still want a Vespa and think those who own Harleys have the real thing.

Take some time, think about it. get back to me.

[JunkyardDog]

Don't really need time. I've seen Chinese scooters with 10,000 miles on them. I don't know what they cost. My Stella kicked the bucket at less than 400 miles. Many Chinese scoots do as well, but not all of them. Not all Stellas blow their engines at 400 miles either. That's just the way it happened this time.

Vespas are very expensive, both new ones and nice vintage ones. That's pretty much common knowledge.

A Stella IS a copy of a Vespa. An almost exact copy. Except for the quality. Early Vespas, back in the '50s may have been poor quality too, I'll have to admit I don't know the answer to that one. But by the '70s, their quality had improved considerably. A Honda owner may be proud of their scoot, a Yamaha owner may be too, in fact I'm proud of mine. It has taken me 14,000 miles without a single problem. But it's the wrong brand to be a snob about.

I'm not sure what it is, but Asian vehicles just seem like imitations to most people, no matter what their quality may be like. Vintage American and pretty much any European vehicles are where the snobbery comes in. Honda may make fine quality motorcycles, but they are basically just appliances. No matter how good a Honda motorcycle may be, it will never be a Ducati, or a Bimota, or an MV Augusta, or even an Aprilia or BMW. Or a Harley. No matter how good a Honda car may be, it will never be a Rolls Royce, a Ferrari, a Porsche, a BMW, a Lamborghini, or a Mercedes.

Lots of really nice scooters are made by a number of Asian companies, but they will never be thought of in the same way as a Vespa, a Lambretta, a Cushman, or a Salisbury. They don't have the name, the "signature", the heritage, whatever. Many people may not like Harleys, but they have been here since 1903. That history is what makes them the real thing. All of these non Asian vehicles I mentioned have something Asian vehicles will never have. An identity, that goes back way farther than anything Asian. It's like the snobs whose ancestors came over on the Mayflower.


BTW, this is all kind of pointless, it's one of those things that if you don't already know, you wouldn't understand anyway. Jerry.

[dawg onit]

That was a little bit better.
You started off making valid points, but then drifted off into your contradictions around the " I'm not sure what it is"
Then you go back into your personal preference while sticking up for shittier brands earlier.
"pretty much any" blah blah blah honda only appliances blah India blah

OK, if its not made in Germany or Italy, or surrounding parties (aside from Harley) it sucks.

I don't have to say anything else but good day to you.

[Roose Hurro]

Lots of really nice scooters are made by a number of Asian companies, but they will never be thought of in the same way as a Vespa, a Lambretta, a Cushman, or a Salisbury. They don't have the name, the "signature", the heritage, whatever. Many people may not like Harleys, but they have been here since 1903. That history is what makes them the real thing. All of these non Asian vehicles I mentioned have something Asian vehicles will never have. An identity, that goes back way farther than anything Asian. It's like the snobs whose ancestors came over on the Mayflower.

I beg to differ: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLjnqkXNWJs

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[jasondavis48108]

"Honda simply does not have the name recognition or owner loyalty or fanaticism of Vespa and Harley owners"

we own three Hondas

1) Honda Fit
2) Honda Ruckus
3) Honda sh150i

I'm about as loyal to Honda as you can get without being so narrow minded as to not even consider anything else as worthy. I am such a Honda Fanatic that I bought the sh150i when almost everyone (including myself) said it was over priced. Its the best, way better than anything I've ever ridden, sat on, or seen in the 150cc displacment catagory. The Ruckus has a huge fanatic fan base with tons of sites decicated to it. I'd say that unfortunately, Honda owners can also be just as snobish as anyone else only in different ways. Harely guy calls Honda guys shadow a "jap knock off of a Harley" Honda guy generally replys with, well at least mine runs most of the time. Honda people buy Honda because they make great looking super reliable tank like products. I am a Honda freak, fan boy, fanatic, call it what you will, and I'm not alone. We're out there and its not too hard to find us if your paying attention, you don't have to look any farther than Italy, home of the Vespa, where the Honda sh series is the most popular scooter there (oh why won't honda bring us the sh300i )

[glamourgirrrl]

Junkyard,

Dissin' the Stella is soooo not cool. I've been riding mine for a couple of months now and I've had 0 issues. I've added modifications and I'm hauling around a sidecar. The only "problem" I have with my Stella is the ammount of people that FREAK out when they see it. I've said it before and I'll say it again EVEN the Harley guys LOVE my Stella! I'm sorry that you don't feel the Stella and the Buddy are worthy of snobbery. (even good-hearted fun snobbery)

[Wheelz]

You guys, All scooters of these mentioned scooters suck(Honda, yamaha, vespa, chinese,buddy, and stella)! Get a Rattler and we'll talk

[bigbropgo]

You guys, All scooters of these mentioned scooters suck(Honda, yamaha, vespa, chinese,buddy, and stella)! Get a Rattler and we'll talk

X2

Rough rat riders represent. Fo sho.

[dawg onit]

You guys, All scooters of these mentioned scooters suck(Honda, yamaha, vespa, chinese,buddy, and stella)! Get a Rattler and we'll talk

X2

Rough rat riders represent. Fo sho.

You guys actually make me want one!!!!

[jasondavis48108]

I do have to admit that the rattler is one sexy beast. 110cc 2T and has that midwest my mama was a dirt bike charm to it. Still I just can't part with my Buddy 50 to make room for one.

[KRUSTYburger]

Okay, to whomever is bashing Stellas, have you ever stopped to consider that maybe your particular engine problem was an isolated incident and not even common among Stellas? I know quite a few people with Stellas that have a LOT of miles on their engines and not a problem to speak of. Don't get me wrong, it sucks that your engine blew, but it was probably a fluke. I've got a friend that works on scooters and he gets Chinese bikes all the time, starters failed, bolts broken off, blinkers/lights don't work, loose brakes, wobbly handlebars... you name it. Frankly it's a little scary the build quality of so many of these mainland China knock-off scooters.

[JHScoot]

i was under the impression the Stella is not a "cheap copy" of a Vespa, but rather made by LML India with the same tooling and manufacturing process they used to make actual Vespa's for Vespa with. making the Stella a Vespa itself for all intents and purposes. is this not true?

[ericalm]

made by LML India with the same tooling and manufacturing process they used to make actual Vespa's for Vespa with.

True.

making the Stella a Vespa itself for all intents and purposes. is this not true?

Not (exactly) true. The LMLs are almost fully compatible with a P-series Vespa in terms of parts and components, but they're not the same parts and components. Honestly, I'm not an expert in the historical issues with Stellas—there are few in CA so I don't know many owners here. But I do know that in the past there have been some electrical or other problems not shared by the Vespas (which have had their own issues over the years).

In the end, a Stella's a Stella and a Vespa's a Vespa. They share a common lineage but they're not the same.

I'm proud as hell to be riding a Stella. Sorry if this offends anyone here who's done this, but get really cheesed out when people rebadge Stellas as Vespas. OWN YOUR RIDE!

There are some nuggets of truth in what JunkyardDog says. Some marks do have more of a pedigree and more of a heritage, though we may not all agree on which brands those are. People get attached to them for different reasons. (Personally, I think Honda has a fine history and that their bikes from the '60s are as beautiful and interesting as the Triumphs, Nortons and BMWs of the time. The Cub is the best-selling PTW in the world. They have produced some true classics.)

But, back to the topic at hand, I don't think that automatically makes the product better and it sure as hell doesn't grant the owner a snob pass. Owning a product is a pretty weak basis for acting like a dick. (Sadly, that doesn't stop people from trying to consume their way into the snob ranks.)

[Anachronism]

Okay, to whomever is bashing Stellas, have you ever stopped to consider that maybe your particular engine problem was an isolated incident and not even common among Stellas? I know quite a few people with Stellas that have a LOT of miles on their engines and not a problem to speak of. Don't get me wrong, it sucks that your engine blew, but it was probably a fluke. I've got a friend that works on scooters and he gets Chinese bikes all the time, starters failed, bolts broken off, blinkers/lights don't work, loose brakes, wobbly handlebars... you name it. Frankly it's a little scary the build quality of so many of these mainland China knock-off scooters.

Stellas do have a rep for poor engine quality control, in many cases the bearings are bad. The engine design is solid, but the quality can be hit or miss.

Usually if you get it past about 2000 miles, it will last a while, but the bad ones can fail quickly.

Mine failed at 1350ish miles. Bad conrod bearing. Took out everything inside the engine case.

Stellas also have issues with electrical gremlins. The bike is a vintage style bike, with vintage style problems, and a few more related to not great quality control.

I still think they are built much better than what I see in your average chinascoot.

Stellas also have thicker sheetmetal than the vespas....

[Anachronism]

I do have to admit that the rattler is one sexy beast. 110cc 2T and has that midwest my mama was a dirt bike charm to it. Still I just can't part with my Buddy 50 to make room for one.

Word. I really like the rattler.

[illnoise]

Stellas also have thicker sheetmetal than the vespas....

A Vespa snob would argue it's because the Stella's made out of melted down scrap metal from the Union Carbide factory and the Vespa was made of melted-down 80s Fiat Strada scraps, and 80s Italian steel is *obviously* stronger than modern Indian steel.

I think it's fair to argue that the Stella's had some quality issues, and that's one of the reasons I'll stay a bit sheepish on the 4T (way more moving parts and closer tolerances) until it's proven itself. But the Stella is certainly an awesome bike and keeping the metal/manual Vespa dream alive, and I applaud Genuine for taking the risks involved and making it happen, they've made a lot of people very happy.

So haters, you're right, but stop being dicks. Fanboys/girls, you're right, but stop being so defensive. The end.

Bb.

[JHScoot]

Stellas also have thicker sheetmetal than the vespas....

I think it's fair to argue that the Stella's had some quality issues, and that's one of the reasons I'll stay a bit sheepish on the 4T (way more moving parts and closer tolerances) until it's proven itself. But the Stella is certainly an awesome bike and keeping the metal/manual Vespa dream alive, and I applaud Genuine for taking the risks involved and making it happen, they've made a lot of people very happy.....

i wouldn't mind having a stella myself, 4t version. they are very cool, and i like the shifting set up more then the motorcycle style. it seems sporty and connected

i think its telling 2t stella's come with a 12 month, 5,000 mile warranty. that should say something right there. i am pretty sure the 4t's are coming with the 2 year, unlimited mile warranty. that should also say something

[JunkyardDog]

I don't hate any scooter. The mainland Chinese scooters are MOSTLY junk, but they are also dirt cheap. I wouldn't buy one, because I prefer quality. But I don't put somebody down for riding one either, there may be reasons. Maybe they don't know they are junk (but will soon find out), maybe they couldn't afford anything better, maybe they don't plan to ride it for very long anyway.

The Stella IS poor quality, but that seems to be mostly limited to certain parts, basically the engine and electrics. It is possible to take a Stella, and rebuild it into a reliable scooter. The body (the body seems especially well built) chassis, suspension, wheels, brakes, and smaller parts seem fine, at least compared to some Chinese scooters I've worked on. It's just a shame about their stock reliability. I am especially disappointed in mine, I read all the horror stories about Stella engines breaking down, seizing, blowing up, etc., changed my mind about buying one several times, then finally bought one, and it lasted less than 400 miles. The Stella is a FUN ride, when it runs, it gives you the same experience of riding a vintage Vespa. But, it is not a Vespa, and does not give the owner "snob" status. I removed the emblems from mine, and decided not to replace them with anything. Let people guess what it is. Obviously a Vespa enthusiast would spot it from a mile away.


Other than the aforementioned cheap Chinese scoots, there are some VERY high quality, VERY reliable scooters being made in Asia. Unfortunately no manual shift ones. If you want a solid reliable ride, get one of these. They represent the best value in scooters today. But they won't give you "snob" status either. Quality has nothing to do with it. It's all about the "pedigree" thing, which only European scooters, and vintage American scooters ( like the Cushman and the Salisbury) have.


And it gets even more complicated. The Vespa name obviously has the pedigree part, but there is a major division between owners of vintage manual shift Vespas, and modern CVT Vespas. You will find these issues in every branch of the vehicle hobby, mopeds, scooters, motorcycles, cars, airplanes, even boats.

I personally lean toward the vintage side, because I am an auto mechanic, and have seen and experienced how the newer cars are built. Mostly plastic, loaded with failure prone and expensive electronics and emissions crap. They were designed from the beginning to be disposable beyond a certain point, used up, and replaced with new ones. They also have no character, no personality, no soul. You might as well be driving a washing machine.

As a vehicle enthusiast, I believe in keeping vehicles running forever, and I also don't believe a vehicle should have anything on it that it doesn't need to run. That means no electronics, no emissions crap, no fuel injection (unless it is purely mechanical) no safety bumpers, no airbags, or any of the other crap they put on new cars. I also don't like plastic, and one of the things that bugs me most about new cars is the low level of design and build quality. What metal they have is little thicker than tin foil, and i especially hate the A pillar mounted mirrors, and the black crap they put around the edges of the glass, to hide the unfinished area underneath.


So I guess what I really am is a "purist". I want my vehicles to be as pure and elemental as possible. I want them to be reliable, but also want them to have a few rough edges to give them character. I do not like the boring blandness of new vehicles. That is what attracted me to the Stella, and I was loving it until the engine grenaded. My Vino 125, is fun, but a little bland. At least I removed all the emissions crap from it. I refuse to own a vehicle with any kind of emissions crap. The cat con exhaust on the Stella will also go.

To the person who was expecting to find friendlier people in the scooter scene, they are there. There are a LOT of scooter clubs out there with very friendly people, no matter what they ride. I just found one in my area. There are also multi brand online forums with very friendly members, whether you ride a vintage Vespa or a Roketa.


Oh, and as far as the Honda Shadow (and all other v-twin Japanese cruiser bikes) being "Harley copies", they are. Harley had the look and sound first. The Japanese saw how Harley inspired owner loyalty, even when the quality was not that great, and tried to cash in on it. Financially they were fairly successful, but that is about over. They succeeded because their "copies" were priced way below "real Harleys". But now that many of the Japanese copies cost as much as a real Harley, those with the money to spend are going to spend it on the real thing. Harleys have an intrinsic value that goes beyond their primary function as motorcycles, something no Japanese copy will ever have. Jerry.

[ericalm]

Jerry, though I don't agree with some of what you say, I do appreciate where it comes from. But you're also kind of flogging the horse here, and it's starting to feel like we're all getting caught in a cycle of differences of opinion. We know you're unhappy with your Stella. Many of us haven't shared your experience. No one seems to agree that they're "poor quality," as you've repeated several times.

I'm just kind of hoping that we can either move forward with the discussion or move on to something else before people start getting irritable.

[JunkyardDog]

Understood. I AM unhappy with the Stella at the moment, but I don't dislike it. It's mainly the engine I have issues with, because I bought it brand new, and it never even made it to 400 miles. The rest of it I like just fine. It does have a few rough edges, but as I already said, I actually LIKE that. I will fix it, hopefully this won't happen again, and I will be able to put a lot of fun miles on it. As of now, I will quit complaining about it. Apologies for any problems my posts about this have caused. Jerry.

[jasondavis48108]

Jerry,

if you bought it brand new then the warranty should cover the bogus engine right? I love the way the stellas look but quite honestly all of my riding is done in stop and go traffic so the idea of a shifty doesn't seem too fun for me. What I really want is an Aprila Mana, then I could choose when I wanted to shift and when I wanted a twist and go

[zemacar]

Judging someone for what they ride is about as sensical as judging them for what brand of shoes they're wearing.

...and what's wrong with that? It's one of the first things I notice (and if they're on two wheels, I hope that their toes are covered).

Cheers.

[BuddyRaton]

I ride modern, vintage, asian, and maxi...I get shit from everyone

[Souless_Lemming]

If your stella blew with under 400 miles on it wouldn't that be under their 2 year unlimited milage warranty? I've been very happy with my 2009 buddy 50 (my first scooter) and genuine scooter company seems (in my opinion) to put out quality products. So did they replace the engine & if so how was their customer service?

[jprestonian]

Of course I'm a scooter snob! Whenever a Harley rider asks me why I don't ride a Harley, I just answer; "Why would I? EVERYone has a Harley. That makes it a fad and fads are for people with no imagination."

I've yet to get an argument...

---Keys

My stock response: "Well, I was going to, actually... but I was in the dealership, looking over the leather goods and Harley shot glasses and whatnot, when the sales guy comes over to me, my credit application is hand, and says, 'Mr. Prestonian, we're sorry. Your penis is too large to ride a Harley, so your application was declined.'"
.

[jprestonian]

As for Chinascoots... I started out with one, too. Bought it in a yard sale for a song, and it ran well enough just long enough that I decided to sell my aging 1997 Mustang and go scooter-only. Then, the troubles began. Every week, something different would go wrong, and here I was, not a mechanical dood. The only place that would look at it in town was a rip-off artist, which I found out when they supposedly did some work on it and charged me $220 for what I later learned was only charging the battery and disconnecting the worthless alarm/remote start.

After five months, it had broken down and left me walking home enough times that the final time it broke down, I left it in the parking lot of the convenience store that I pushed it into overnight, where it was stolen. I was quite grateful for that. Even though I had no coverage for theft, I had had enough of the Ymoto Vortec 150. Good riddance!

Later that week, I bought a Yamaha Vino Classic 50 2T for $1000 off craigslist, had it derestricted, and saved my pennies for a few months until I had enough to score a Kymco Agility 125. I now ride a Kymco People 250, and the rest is history.

Can the Chinese build a good scooter? YES (witness the Kymco Agility, Like, Super 8, SYM Fiddle II, Lance Cali Classic, etc.). The problem with that is they end up costing almost if not what the Taiwanese scooters do, and the U.S. dealers only want to hit a price-point -- which the Chinese manufacturers are only too happy to provide. The shop I work in part-time gets a fax every week, offering 150cc Chinabikes delivered for under $500/ea. I certainly wouldn't want to ride anything at 50mph (presumably) that cost my dealer less than $500 to get on his floor!
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