Grade (Octane) if gas >>>

stormybuddy · Post by **stormybuddy** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:31 pm

you reccommend for my, soon to be delivered Buddy 50?

Tanks,

SB

ERik3tb · Post by **ERik3tb** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:38 pm

Both dealers I have talked with recommend 91 octane for all scoots.

Has anyone else heard differently?

axiom007 · Post by **axiom007** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:02 pm

not neccessarily pertaining to the 50cc, but some good info:

topic1015.html

Corsair · Post by **Corsair** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:03 pm

87 - The Buddy Doesn't need higher:
viewtopic.php?t=1015

pocphil wrote:I am offically charging 1 Beer for every time I post this to some scooter forum. So, because I love the Modern Buddy forum so much I will consolidate it and we'll call it a freebie.

Laymans Guide to Octane

1 - OCTANE is the resistance to detonation. High compression engines cause fuel to pre-detonate - this is called KNOCK. It is dangerous to your motor.

2 - Scooters (all that I'm aware of) use notoriously LOW compression engines. 87 Octane has been shown to be fine. In high altitude areas I've even run 85 Octane in my race scooter and it did not knock one bit.

3 - HIGH OCTANE does not equal "Clean" or "Power" - Running a motor designed for 87 Octane fuel on 92 will actually make it run poorly, less power and worse mileage. The detergent additives are specified by the company selling the fuel and they are consistent from 86 - 94 octane.

4 - If your Jaguar, Snowblower, JetSki, Scooter, weedwacker etc. runs fine on 87 Octane without knocking or running on after you turn off the key, keep using it. Keep in mind modern vehicles are designed to run on a WORLD of different fuel qualities. The worst fuel you can pull from a pump in the US is going to be much better than the best fuel you can pull from a pump in India etc.

5 - Octane is not Octane. The numbers we use in the US are based on an average of 2 different testing methods. The number found In most countries (including all of Europe and Australia) the octane that would be shown on the pump is the Research Octane Number but in the United States and some other countries the headline number is the average of the RON and the Motor Octane Number. So, the gas we call 87 Octane R/M is actually written in most owners manuals as 92 or 93 Octane (RON).

If not specified assume the Octane number in the manual is a RON number. As most vehicles (scooters) are not manufactured in the US.

Here is our "real world" application data:

In 1999 the Ohio Department of Agriculture conducted a test of 1000 gas stations. 85% Of these stations were pumping non-premium octane fuel from their premium pumps. Audits of these stations were conducted and it was seen as a regular practice for stations to have "Regular" account for approximately 82% of their monthly sales. Yet it accounted for over 95% of the fuel they ordered from their supplier. Unless they were giving away thousands of gallons of 87 Octane fuel, it was quite obvious they were selling the 87 out of the higher octane pumps.

AND

lobsterman wrote: 1. Good stuff doesn't have to mean high octane. It could just mean don't buy cheap no name gas. I wasn't there so I don't know what he said, maybe he specifically mentioned octane. At any rate, a guy at the shop doesn't necessarily have to understand how octane works to sell or repair a scooter.

2. My father is a chemical engineer, as I stated previously. He was Chief Engineer in charge of research for Exxon Chemical. I have to asume he knows what he is doing in this case. He never puts higher octane fuel than rated in any engine, whether car, boat, or lawn mower.

3. I always put 87 octane in my BD125 and it has run great so far from 15 degrees F to 65 degrees F. No hesitation, pinging, or poor performance.

germ · Post by **germ** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:55 pm

Seeing that I only fill my tank once a month with a 1 1/2 gallons, why not use the highest grade. My scooter shop suggests it as well.

mandelia · Post by **mandelia** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:09 pm

germ wrote:Seeing that I only fill my tank once a month with a 1 1/2 gallons, why not use the highest grade. My scooter shop suggests it as well.

i guess you don't like reading long posts

to answer your question in the fewest words possible:

higher grade ≠ better performance

Micah_Prophet · Post by **Micah_Prophet** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:01 pm

Wow - that is really helpful - THANKS FOR POSTING!!!!

BlueMark · Post by **BlueMark** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:12 pm

Americans measure octane differently than most foreign nations. The 91 or 92 octane gasoline that PGO recommends is the same as American 87 (regular) octane.

You get the best results using the lowest octane that your engine will burn without knocking.

-Mark

KidDynomite · Post by **KidDynomite** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:34 pm

germ wrote:Seeing that I only fill my tank once a month with a 1 1/2 gallons, why not use the highest grade. My scooter shop suggests it as well.

WOW!!! I used to work at a downtown hotel here in Kansas City--years ago--as a doorman/bellman. My favorite question was ALWAYS, "What time is the 4:15 airport shuttle?"

Anyway, thanks again for this thread. I've switched to 87 octane and actually believe I've seen an ever so slight performance upgrade in my B125.

rossini · Post by **rossini** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:43 pm

Because the Buddy runs WORSE on anything higher than 87. It is built to burn at the 87 octane level and not more. People just CAN'T get past the psychological misconception that higher octane = better performance. You only get better performance when the engine is built for higher octane. otherwise performance can suffer. Pretty easy concept to grasp actually.

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:31 am

Higher octane simply means higher heat. Not neccessarily a good thing on a small air-cooled engine unless it has high compression. The Buddy doesn't.

--Keys

KidDynomite · Post by **KidDynomite** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:35 pm

I agree with everything said here. In fact--as I've said--my switch to 87 octane seems to have improved performance.

However, I've read the specs on PGO's C3 engine and they call for 92 octane. This is an English site however. Is it possible that 92 is their lowest octane gas in England?

JokerJim · Post by **JokerJim** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:12 pm

Hey KidDynomite,

Where you been man?

Did you get a new pipe?

I am interested in the Cliff Drive race.

See you soon.

Joker

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:13 pm

KidDynomite wrote:I agree with everything said here. In fact--as I've said--my switch to 87 octane seems to have improved performance.

However, I've read the specs on PGO's C3 engine and they call for 92 octane. This is an English site however. Is it possible that 92 is their lowest octane gas in England?

They calculate it differently in the UK. See the previously referenced threads for a detailed explanation.

KidDynomite · Post by **KidDynomite** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:04 pm

JokerJim wrote:Hey KidDynomite,

Where you been man?

Just really broke and busy.

JokerJim wrote:Did you get a new pipe?

Again, see broke.

JokerJim wrote:I am interested in the Cliff Drive race.

Oh, it is SOOOO ON!!! Get Tony out there too. I wanna race his Cushman title for title LOL!!! Maybe I could win some cash and get that windshield and a pipe.

JokerJim wrote:See you soon.

Joker

Yes, later. I've been bartending until around 2am, so my hours SUCK. I'd love to go on the beer run if I can work my schedule out. If not, I'll have to join you all very soon for a Sunday ride.

Micah_Prophet · Post by **Micah_Prophet** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:01 pm

I am on my first tank of 85 octane on my buddy 50 - no noticeable change

Elm Creek Smith · Post by **Elm Creek Smith** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:15 am

Jim-

It was good to meed you at the Dark Side of the Scoot. Hope to see you again. I'll try coming to KC for the next big rally up there.

-Kent AKA ECS

maryvu · Post by **maryvu** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:28 am

87 only for the first 934 miles on my buddy. I got 123 miles out of my last tank!!