[NSR] Are You A Hipster?

[JHScoot]

I keep reading about scooterists being "hipsters" but can't really confirm / deny anything for myself. I am not a hipster is all I can say.

What about you? Would people say you're a hipster? Do they think that because you ride a "vespa" like in that little "It's Not A Vespa" cartoon? lol

How can I get some hipster cred?

[Lagerhead]

Nope, not a hipster.
I can't grow an ironic beard.

[TVB]

I find myself a little baffled by the hostile attention that "hipsters" are getting lately. It's as if society found itself without any truly obnoxious subgroups to hate, so people latched onto the vague and nebulous category of "hipsters". As if a particular fashion sense was somehow an offence against society, or harmed people who didn't follow it in some way.

As near as I can figure out, what's so horrible about hipsters is their affectation of following certain trends. What's ironic are the throngs following the trend of hipster-bashing: it's hip to hate the hip.

(For the record, I'm about as hip as a stick in the mud.)

[Keys]

I don't know what a "hipster" is. And if it means I have to "follow" somebody else's interpretation of what "cool" is, I ain't it. Follow my own path, thank you very much...

--Keys

[BootScootin'FireFighter]

I don't know what a "hipster" is. And if it means I have to "follow" somebody else's interpretation of what "cool" is, I ain't it. Follow my own path, thank you very much...

--Keys

I can't say I know what a hipster truly is. If a hipster is a sort of follower, then we're ALL "hipsters" to some extent. I've been called a hipster by another former bike messenger because I still was going to messenger style "alleycat" bike races in DC and NY even though I didn't ride for work anymore. Apparently since he worked for about 2 years and I did for about 5 months, he was immune from the label. Whatever... I enjoyed the races, wasn't crazy about coming home covered in sweaty soot from bus exhaust and the pay sucked.

If you like something, then go ahead and enjoy it. Just don't give that trend or hobby a bad image by going overboard or being a douche.

[Wheelz]

I'm with TVB, on this.
Living in Chicago there was a huge anti-hipster trend.
to me, I think a hipster is somebody that tries too hard.
The guy with the chrome bag and the fixie bike that has never done a solid days work as a bike messenger is prolly a hipster.
I'm all for anybody getting on a bike, for what ever reason, though.
There is alot of side picking in the messenger culture-
I was one for four years, and because i quit doing it I am automatically not as "cool" as i was.
Or the guy that only rides in the summer, is automatically not as "cool" as the guy that rides year round.
I did get a sick sense of pride riding my bike in breath freezing weather though?
If you have the time and energy to worry about what other people think of you-you might be a hipster?

[Skootz Kabootz]

I'm too cool to be hip

[Halloweenie]

I had a handlebar mustache for six years, now all of a sudden they are "popular"? I don't get it.

[BuddyRaton]

Nope
I'm just run of the mill Scooter Trash

[Hwarang]

I'm not a hipster, and I don't really hate on them, either. I think hipster girls are kinda cute. Like the chick from Pomplamoose. So ... it's a win?

I prefer to focus what little negative energies I have on the truly detestable types. Bicyclists who ride in the road. Armpit crystal hippies. People who look in my front window when knocking on my door. The usual.

[charlie55]

Nope, just a BetaMax guy in a Blu-Ray world.

[sunshinen]

Nope.

[BlueMark]

I prefer to focus what little negative energies I have on the truly detestable types. Bicyclists who ride in the road. .

That's wrong? Round here it is illegal to ride on the sidewalk, and the curbs are often so uneven your only safe choice is to take a lane.

[jasondavis48108]

I have a fixed gear and a chrome bag which could put me in the hipster catagory, but I built the fixed gear from a 1978 schwinn varsity which is way uncool I also love ice biking which is hip, but I only ride a monster bike with gazza extreame tires, not road tires in the winter which is not cool. I can't grow a beard but I envy the guys from ZZ Top and if I could I'd sport a super old testament beard. I also don't drink so I think that may be an automatic exclusion from hipsterdom but I'm not sure, maybe there is a group of straight edge hipsters that I'm unaware of. I figure each subgroup probably has a group that hates on them and I would hope that the members of that subgroup could give a flip about it. I'm a math nerd who rides his bicycle in the road(because that's were they belong by law) with his chrome bag and Arkel panniers because I'm a pack rat, maybe I'm a ratster or maybe I'm just a geek. All I know is that if everyone is perfectly happy with what I'm doing all of the time then I'm doing something wrong, that would be an awefuly boring existance

[Mikie M.]

The classic example of a "hipster", and arguably their leader, is Kramer.
And, according to Elaine, he is also a "dufuss".

[Lostmycage]

If I wasted all my time trying to be "cool" I'd have no time left for the things I actually enjoy. I just don't have time to keep up with these silly trends.

However; when dealing with the "hipsters"... if a person can make intelligent conversation, I don't care what "style" they pursue, but if an idiot starts talking to me (or worse, a person imitating an idiot in pursuit of a
"lifestyle") well, I've no patience for that.

If what I am is a "style", cool. If it's not, again, cool.

It's a good thing to be content with one's life.

[jrsjr]

Very dated, but always worth a laugh, the Hipster Olympics.

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[ericalm]

Um… Does it make me a hipster if I think Kyp from TV on the Radio is genuinely supercool?

What's funny about the whole hipster thing is that anything cool is immediately uncool and anything uncool—but not too contrived—is cool until it's cool enough to be uncool. So this whole "ironic" thing (which isn't actually irony, it's kitsch, which is totally different) has created an unfortunate situation in which nothing can be genuinely cool.

They killed cool!

The hipster backlash is perhaps the only true ironic aspect of the whole thing. It's copping a "cooler than thou" attitude by poking fun at those cooler than thou. So just as cool becomes uncool and uncool becomes cool, the cool kids were singled out and branded as too ridiculous to actually be cool by those claiming to be cooler by virtue of being less cool.

Of course none of it makes any sense but that's what comes from living in a time when just about everything is simultaneously cool and uncool.

[jasondavis48108]

My dad actually called me a yuppi cause I shop at the farmers market and drink good tea, relatively speaking I think I'd rather be a hipster

[JHScoot]

maybe you just invented a yipster?

[TVB]

They killed cool!

But... I thought these guys already did that!

[Hwarang]

I prefer to focus what little negative energies I have on the truly detestable types. Bicyclists who ride in the road. .

That's wrong? Round here it is illegal to ride on the sidewalk, and the curbs are often so uneven your only safe choice is to take a lane.

Many who consider themselves "well informed" about pedestrian, traffic and bicycle laws are not ... or they at least don't operate as they should. In Minneapolis, it's only illegal to ride on the sidewalk in a commercial district (which is defined as a length of block that is at least 50% business not residential).

Additionally, I don't think I've ever seen a bicyclist stop for a stop sign, which they're supposed to do. This is extremely dangerous - think of the danger to you on your scoot if you didn't stop for stop signs. Same thing.

Also, it's just rude to hold up a line of cars just because you feel like wearing spandex and going 1mph in the middle of a main city artery.

[ericalm]

I prefer to focus what little negative energies I have on the truly detestable types. Bicyclists who ride in the road. .

That's wrong? Round here it is illegal to ride on the sidewalk, and the curbs are often so uneven your only safe choice is to take a lane.

Many who consider themselves "well informed" about pedestrian, traffic and bicycle laws are not ... or they at least don't operate as they should. In Minneapolis, it's only illegal to ride on the sidewalk in a commercial district (which is defined as a length of block that is at least 50% business not residential).

Additionally, I don't think I've ever seen a bicyclist stop for a stop sign, which they're supposed to do. This is extremely dangerous - think of the danger to you on your scoot if you didn't stop for stop signs. Same thing.

Also, it's just rude to hold up a line of cars just because you feel like wearing spandex and going 1mph in the middle of a main city artery.

These are very similar to the attitudes a lot of motorcyclists have about scooterists.

[TVB]

These are very similar to the attitudes a lot of motorcyclists have about scooterists.

And equally fair and factual (i.e. not at all).

[ericalm]

These are very similar to the attitudes a lot of motorcyclists have about scooterists.

And equally fair and factual (i.e. not at all).

I think that like most stereotypes they have some anecdotal basis, which doesn't necessarily make them true. I've seen scooterists who don't ride well, going too slow, riding in flip flops, etc. I've seen many cyclists who ride on the streets (as they're required to here) but who ignore all traffic signals, etc. But that's obviously not representative of all scooterists, bicyclists any more than stereotypes about drivers, race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, etc. I sure as hell don't want drivers to treat me like I'm that scooterist or cyclist when I'm on my scooter or bike.

As for the hipsters, I think they've been unfairly maligned as well. I know and have worked with a lot of people in their 20s who would fall into the "hipster" category. Most were sporting the look, going to shows, etc. before the term took on its current meaning. Their affection for nerdy accessories and obscure bands was endearing before it became such a badge of shame. Some lived in the hipster hotbeds of Silverlake or Echo Park, some in Brooklyn. And many of them were the brightest, hardest working and most creative people I know. They also make me feel old as f••• but I can't fault them for that.

[charlie55]

They also make me feel old as f••• but I can't fault them for that.

Physically, we're living longer but socially, we're aging faster.

Quite the paradox, isn't it?

[Hwarang]

Oh now, let's keep in mind that this is just an interwebz discussion.

My recital of city ordinances was quite factual, as a quick Googlin' can tell you. The rest of my post was obviously editorial in nature, and I didn't claim otherwise.

I find it interesting that you point out the parallel between scooter vs moto riders - I understand they may think scooter riders "less manly" but I hadn't heard anything about them considering scooter riders less law abiding ... but I guess it doesn't surprise me. I own one of each, and my identity doesn't change depending on my choice of bike, so that viewpoint isn't something I share.

I guess it's typical to have friction when you have all those different modes of transportation using the same medium. It just seems nonsensical to me that you would put bicycles in traffic when it poses so many problems and puts the bicyclist at such a safety disadvantage. They clearly belong on sidewalks.

[polianarchy]

Yes, I am a hipster.

[ericalm]

It just seems nonsensical to me that you would put bicycles in traffic when it poses so many problems and puts the bicyclist at such a safety disadvantage. They clearly belong on sidewalks.

People who use the sidewalks would probably argue that bikes clearly don't belong there. Sadly, there have been several instances of bicyclists injuring pedestrians on sidewalks and even a few in which pedestrians were killed.

If everyone followed the rules, good riding and driving practices and the letter of the law, the safety disadvantage would be greatly diminished. Of course, that's not the reality so drivers have to contend with unruly cyclists and cyclists have to watch out for drivers who pay them no mind and don't respect their right (or legal obligation in some cases) to be on the roads.

I just think that as scooterists, we should be particularly sympathetic to this. We're also at a safety disadvantage compared to the cars around us. We share many of the issues and concerns with driver behavior, rights and safety.

Yes, I am a hipster.

You're really damn hip, that's for sure!

[texepictetus]

Hipters are just adult versions of "scene kids". By adult, I mean 35+. Funny thing is I didn't know what a scene kid was until my Genuine dealer told me. I'm old enough, but have completely lost touch with what is cool these days so I guess I'm not a hipster. Heck, I still think the Toasters are the best band ever.

[jasondavis48108]

maybe you just invented a yipster?

that sounds like one of those toy breeds of dog

I think I'll just declare myself a mathster and call it good. It's like a hipster only less hip and more numerate. We mathsters share quite abit in common with hipsters though

1) we wear dorky math joke T-shirts (the dorky, not the math is the common ground here)

2) A disproportionate number of us prefer bicycles as transportation

3) we're fans of people you've most likely never heard of

kind of off topic, I love this nercore song about hipster girls

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTbwCsjN4Ek

hey, does likely nerdcore support my being a hipster or is it yet more proof of my mathsterness?

[TVB]

It just seems nonsensical to me that you would put bicycles in traffic when it poses so many problems and puts the bicyclist at such a safety disadvantage. They clearly belong on sidewalks.

A person on a bicycle traveling at 15-20mph does not belong on a narrow strip of pavement with pedestrians traveling at 2-4mph (to say nothing of children). That's... nonsensical. And it's why - your local ordinance notwithstanding - in most places, it is illegal (with an obvious exception made for child bicyclists, who are much slower).

A further problem with bicyclists riding on the sidewalk is that motorists won't see them there. Despite the "yield to pedestrians" mantra that went in one ear and out the other throughout driver's ed, they do not look at sidewalks to see if there is a pedestrian about to step into the street, and they are certainly not looking several meters away from the curb, where a bicycle about to enter the crosswalk would be. It isn't even (completely) their fault; bikes on sidewalks are simply harder to see than they are in the road. Unless you're expecting bicyclists to stop and walk across at every intersection (in which case you can go stuff yourself), they would be at high risk every time they crossed a street.

You know, I used to stay out of the street to get away from hostile motorists, and the result was a couple collisions and countless near misses. (I've never had a collision when riding in the road.) Sidewalks are simply unsafe for bicyclists. Worse than the roads. And at least in a car-bicycle collision only one person is likely to be injured, rather than two in a bicycle-pedestrian collision.

I think we would agree that lanes in the road dedicated to bicycle use would be best, but in the vast majority of places in North America they don't exist. The next best thing is the right side of the right lane of the road. It's not nonsensical; it's supported by cold hard objective facts.

Don't take my word for it. And don't take your own assumptions and biased observations for the truth either. Read some studies about bicycle safety, and see what they say. They all point to sidewalks as one of the riskiest places to ride a bike. I'll take my chances in traffic; so far they've been pretty damn good.... despite the motorists who don't seem to understand.

[sunshinen]

I find it interesting that you point out the parallel between scooter vs moto riders - I understand they may think scooter riders "less manly" but I hadn't heard anything about them considering scooter riders less law abiding ... but I guess it doesn't surprise me. [...]

It just seems nonsensical to me that you would put bicycles in traffic when it poses so many problems and puts the bicyclist at such a safety disadvantage. They clearly belong on sidewalks.

Seriously??? Seriously??? You've never heard this attitutude pointed at scooters? You will.

But you have seen the way people respond to safety campaigns for motorcyclists, right? The pissed off: "Why should I watch out for a motorcyclist when all of them are doing wheelies down the highway at 100mph, running red lights, cutting through traffic with a death wish??"

I've also been told that scooters clearly belong on the sidewalk. That putting a scooter in traffic is stupid and dangerous. Been asked if I ride a scooter because I'm a drunk who lost my license. Been asked why scooters think they can take up a whole lane. Etc. (These are not people who have been on the road with me and seen how I ride... they're just pissed off at some kid on a moped they had to wait 3 seconds to pass 3 months ago when they were already 30 minutes late due to their own irresponsibility... )

AND I've been told I was hipster because I ride a scooter (I wish I were young enough or even remotely fashionable enough to be a hipster ), that my North Face insulated boots (with a stiff, waterproof shell, traction for walking on snow, and contoured/shaped like real footwear) are "essentially Uggs" and therefore ridiculous to wear even though it is the exact weather for which they are designed -- because they are boots that are lined with fur and Uggs are an infamous fashion trend of the wantonly impractical. People hear a label and they like to use it in any (ignorant) way they can apply it and feel superior.

Just like the hipsters and the hipster bashers, most people like to bash whatever group they are not a part of.

I guess it's typical to have friction when you have all those different modes of transportation using the same medium.

Absolutely -- it's the typical friction of multiple, different users of the same medium/planet. And we all need to be careful about applying the worst behavior to all members of an "other" group. It's not like bicyclists enjoy being buzzed by steel cages going tens of mph faster than they are any more than we like someone tailgaiting 3 feet behind us even though we're going 20 mph over the speed limit in the rain. That's why bicyclists fight for bike paths and why other urban planning that creates safe mediums for all forms of traffic -- from pedestrians to bicyclists to motorcycles to 18 wheelers -- is so important.

[Hwarang]

Yeah, I can understand that a pedestrian is put at a safety risk when bicycles are on the sidewalk. But there's also a safety risk when a bicycle is put in the street.

When a bicyclist collides with a pedestrian = bruises and whatnot.
When a car collides with a bicyclist = death.

One is clearly the lesser of two evils.

Minneapolis has a strong bicycle community, and we also have a lot of sad little wreaths & crosses on the side of the road.

[KABarash]

I don't want to really enter the argument here but I don't 'get it' bicycles are vehicles, they do not belong on the sidewalk. I learned that as a kid.
Scooters have and should have the same privileges as motorcycles. Whether I'm riding my 50cc, my 150cc, or driving my Jeep I take the lane, it is mine, BUMMER if you don't like it! I've had many situations when other drivers don't like it!
Is it a matter of the 'degradation' of our society? As a child of the 60's my father would have given me a serious attitude re-adjustment if I acted like that!!! (Yes I remember when the Beatles first came to the US)

[Hwarang]

Seems like a civil debate to me. Hop in!

[TVB]

Yeah, I can understand that a pedestrian is put at a safety risk when bicycles are on the sidewalk. But there's also a safety risk when a bicycle is put in the street.

But you seem to have difficulty wrapping your head around the fact that it is a greater risk (including to the bicyclist) to put a bicycle on the sidewalk. It may not be intuitive, but it's true. Bicyclists don't ride in the street just to make you cry; they do it because it makes sense for general safety. Every significant incident I've been involved in on a bicycle has been on a sidewalk or a crosswalk. In the street, where I've ridden the vast majority of my miles, I've been safe.

[ericalm]

I don't want to really enter the argument here but I don't 'get it' bicycles are vehicles, they do not belong on the sidewalk. I learned that as a kid.
Scooters have and should have the same privileges as motorcycles. Whether I'm riding my 50cc, my 150cc, or driving my Jeep I take the lane, it is mine, BUMMER if you don't like it! I've had many situations when other drivers don't like it!
Is it a matter of the 'degradation' of our society? As a child of the 60's my father would have given me a serious attitude re-adjustment if I acted like that!!! (Yes I remember when the Beatles first came to the US)

I really think it's this sense of personal entitlement and rights (rather than shared or community rights) that's so pervasive now. The sense is often, "I have the right to be here to the ignorance or detriment of all others." Instead, it should be, "I have the right to be in my place and do my thing, as do others." We share the benefits and privileges of society with other members. For this to be a success, there needs to be consideration for all of others' rights, not just our own.

Simply because cars and trucks are the biggest vehicles on the road does not make it solely their domain. The roads were built to be shared, whether drivers realize it or not. The dangers they pose to many of us are, to a large degree, due to carelessness, recklessness and a lack of awareness of or regard for others on the roads.

[JHScoot]

^ dumb cagers, one and all

no but seriously i was at my sisters house last weekend and my scooter briefly came up in convo and all of a sudden, out of the blue, she starts saying "i was driving the other day at rush hour and this DUMB guy on a STUPID scooter pulls up in front of ALL the cars at a light and when it turned green he was holding up EVERYONE going so SLOW!" she finally explained how he "got the message" and pulled to the right, but boy was she irritated!

the entire minute she was ranting i just sat there looking at her disgusted face thinking 'what does this have to do with scooters? or me?' i said 'well he shouldn't be going so slow.' and she said "yeah i know! but he's on a scooter"



so far as scooters taking up "an entire lane?" well i tell you, when i am in MY lane on my scooter, i have plenty of room around me to share, and i gladly would. if your big, fat ass car doesn't fit next to me....get a scooter!

oh, and this. just to be on topic



Hipness

[jasondavis48108]

I have to agree with TVB. Bikes not only belong on the road for safety reasons but here in michigan that is where they are supposed to be legally. I do agree that some cyclists make the rest of us look bad but I alwasy follow all traffic laws when I'm on my bicycle. I stop for stop signs and traffic lights and only run a red when I have sat through a full cycle of the light and been skipped (much like what happens to scooters). Most of the other cyclists I know around here also follow the law except for on the UofM campus where cars and bikes alike think they own the road and no one follows the law (I won't ride my bike near campus for this reason). AS for scooters, I always hated the "they are going to slow" thing. As far as I'm concerned the speed limit is just that, a limit. If its a 40mph zone and I want to go 35mph that's perogative so long as I stay in the right lane. I have had many an irate driver speed around me cause I was only going 40mph in a 40mph zone. As far as I'm concerned noone should be able to force me to break the law.

[sunshinen]

But you seem to have difficulty wrapping your head around the fact that it is a greater risk (including to the bicyclist) to put a bicycle on the sidewalk.

True. See, sidewalks don't actually keep bikes from interacting with moving vehicles (unless there are over/under passes for the sidewalk/bike path), and riding on a sidewalk generally serves to make the bicyclist even harder to see and to make them seem to appear out of nowhere, especially to cars turning onto or off of side roads that are looking for other cars not what's in or about to enter the crosswalk.

The really bad accidents I have seen (one I saw as the helicopter was being called in) in my immediate area have been bicyclists riding on the sidewalk, entering a crosswalk, and getting hit by a vehicle. I know of 3 such accidents. I don't actually know of any where someone riding on the road has been struck. That's not statistically sound, but there are reasons the laws are what they are, and you can bet it's not because the people making the laws want to see cyclists hit.

[sunshinen]

I really think it's this sense of personal entitlement and rights (rather than shared or community rights) that's so pervasive now. The sense is often, "I have the right to be here to the ignorance or detriment of all others." Instead, it should be, "I have the right to be in my place and do my thing, as do others." We share the benefits and privileges of society with other members. For this to be a success, there needs to be consideration for all of others' rights, not just our own.

Simply because cars and trucks are the biggest vehicles on the road does not make it solely their domain. The roads were built to be shared, whether drivers realize it or not. The dangers they pose to many of us are, to a large degree, due to carelessness, recklessness and a lack of awareness of or regard for others on the roads.

Well said.

[BootScootin'FireFighter]

It just seems nonsensical to me that you would put bicycles in traffic when it poses so many problems and puts the bicyclist at such a safety disadvantage. They clearly belong on sidewalks.

It's called a sideWALK, not a sideRIDE.... just my 2 cents.

As far as I'm concerned the speed limit is just that, a limit. If its a 40mph zone and I want to go 35mph that's perogative so long as I stay in the right lane. I have had many an irate driver speed around me cause I was only going 40mph in a 40mph zone. As far as I'm concerned noone should be able to force me to break the law.

AMEN brother! Well said. It's a LIMIT, not a minimum!

[BootScootin'FireFighter]

it's getting pretty dangerous out there!

[Wheelz]

and bootscootin brings it back
seriously ride your bike where ya want if it's against the law to be on a sidewalk don't be....
If you can and enjoy it ride on the sidewalk....
Here's a question for ya?
Do we really know or care "what" classification we fit into?
Somebody may call me a hipster I don't know or care.
If hipster meant somebody tryin to live his life and let everybody else live thiers, then sure I'mma hipster.
I never used to be anything, everything i love or loved is important to me still.
If I could find a pair of nice JNCO jeans I'd still bye em' they were great pants, as long as they didn't have some stupid dragon or skull embroidered on em, but I can't so I don't.
get it?

[Coffeejunkie]

I was going to write a silly remark about my post hipsterish self, but then I think Grandpa Simpson said it best.

"I used to be with it, then they changed what it was. Now what I'm with, isn't it and what's it seems weird and scary. It'll happen to yoooouuu."

[TVB]

I never progressed past being groovy, maybe a little into being bad. Being punk, gnarly, radical, awesome, phat, and sick have all eluded me.

[dalvarado]

It just seems nonsensical to me that you would put bicycles in traffic when it poses so many problems and puts the bicyclist at such a safety disadvantage. They clearly belong on sidewalks.

I regularly commute 20 or 30 miles home from work on my bike. If me and a peloton of 3 or 4 cyclists blew past you at 20+ (fast on a bike) while you walked down the sidewalk, you'd probably crap yourself. *That* would be dangerous. Any pedestrian would rightly be pissed at me.

[buddy boy]

I'm neither hip nor cool. When I was growing up in the 60's and 70's, I was referred to as a freak (long hair). My children, two of whom are in college, refer to students in high school that either stayed back or were held back by their parents so as to be physically larger to play sports, as super seniors. If you follow that logic, because I am way past 35, I guess I should be labeled a super freak.

Yeah, that's right. A super freak. Maybe the Rick James type, maybe not. You decide. It's past 8:00 PM, I'm going to bed.

[KRUSTYburger]

I'm definitely not hip. I don't go out, I don't like beer, I don't smoke cigarettes, I don't have any tatoos, I don't wear tight pants or fancy sunglasses, heck I don't even have a cell phone! I do own the odd ironic t-shirt tho.