Modern Buddy

These are the two vehicles in mind before slamming down the cash. Yes, I realize that the Sachs MadAss is actually manufactured in China; however, it offers the same 2yr warranty as the Buddy 125, and is engineered in Germany.
I have a short inseam (26"), so the Buddy might be more comfortable, but the styling of the MadAss has me hypnotized--it is a true motorcycle. I also like the manual shifting thing.
Storage-wise, the MA does not hold a candle to the Buddy, for it has none.
Both Genuine and Sachs dealers in my area offer the 125cc 2010 leftovers for just under $2000 OTD.
I've owned a Genuine Rattler 110cc in the past, and was not very satisfied with the reliability.
With these temporary/off-season prices, I need to make a move fast.
I plan on making a decision before the weekend.

Can anybody help me make a decision using an UNBIASED comparison?

Thanks,

Hugo

test ride them there so different 1 will be a no go.
Think I read that alot of weight is put on your arms and wrist on the Madass

idk i think the Mad Ass is over hyped. maybe if you're gonna mod it and stuff? but otherwise, meh

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/CUxOQg9-DKU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

the Buddy on the other hand is just flat out fun, and even stock is pretty much what you make it. little commuter or little sporty tossabout

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0pNddc6PKIg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

you can see how well the Buddy goes and stops and handles. i was at my local scooter shop one day and a guy walked in. been riding bikes a long time. skinny guy with a bunch of tattoos and sunglasses. looked like a rockstar / thrill seeker, etc. hey, it's L.A.!

anywho, he was itching to test ride a Mad Ass. was sure he wanted one. looked like the bike was built for him, really . sleek bike, sleek guy, etc. both looked damn sexy

but upon his return...not very impressed at all. said it felt like a "faster moped."

he also said it was "pretty slow off the line"

maybe that isn't so unbiased. i just know from riding a Buddy, they can be a blast

There are, however, a LOT of aftermarket performance mods for the MadAss. Fewer for the Buddy. The MadAss has a lot of potential, but again, it all depends on usage and personal taste.

--Keys

yeah i think Keys makes some good points. how will it be used, how often, and for what. rode daily, weekends, primary or secondary transportation?

also bike Vs scooter, shifty Vs auto. looking for a project, or just something to hop on and go?

so far as the Rattler being problematic, it's sort of par for the course with that scoot, or so i have read. its a 2 stroke, and like others can be unreliable in some regard. the Buddy on the other hand has built a reputation for being bulletproof. but some bad apples do slip through, i imagine

Keys wrote:There are, however, a LOT of aftermarket performance mods for the MadAss. Fewer for the Buddy. The MadAss has a lot of potential, but again, it all depends on usage and personal taste.

--Keys

I'd disagree. With the GY6 being THE most common scooter motor out there, the Buddy has FAR more aftermarket parts. The issue is the confusion on what will and won't fit.

What will you be using the scoot for? What sort of riding are you planning on doing?

The Buddy is probably more all-around practical.

The Madass is probably a lot of fun. So's a Buddy, but the Madass is a different kind of fun.

I will mainly be using it for getting to work. I've had a Ruckus, Rattler, Typhoon 70 and Zuma 70cc. I'm thinking it might be time to try something with a different feel.
Honestly, seat height is of major concern with the MadAss, but I love it.

Hugo,

Have you researched both scoots for reliability issues? Have you ridden both? I'm not familiar with the MA's reliability however the Buddy has proven itself over and over.You mentioned the 2 year warranty on the MA but if the MA is known to have issues who wants to be without their scoot while in the shop.

I think the 2 scoots are different enough that it shouldn't be to hard to decide which fits your style best.(Assuming the MA is a reliable machine)

If you do your homework and find the MA is also a reliable machine then simply go with whatever you like best.It's a personnel choice really.

Both the MA 125 and Buddy 125 MSRP at around $2700. I found a local MA dealer in the Boston area to agree to an off-season offer of $1995 OTD. I also emailed Scooters Go Green in Boston (currently closed until 02/23/11) to see if they could match or beat. I'm waiting for a reply.
I plan on slapping down the cash on either by Saturday at the latest.

Hugo wrote:Both the MA 125 and Buddy 125 MSRP at around $2700. I found a local MA dealer in the Boston area to agree to an off-season offer of $1995 OTD. I also emailed Scooters Go Green in Boston (currently closed until 02/23/11) to see if they could match or beat. I'm waiting for a reply.
I plan on slapping down the cash on either by Saturday at the latest

Also, incase you didn't know. The MadAss is a manual shift bike, if that matters to you...

Kaos wrote:

Hugo wrote:Both the MA 125 and Buddy 125 MSRP at around $2700. I found a local MA dealer in the Boston area to agree to an off-season offer of $1995 OTD. I also emailed Scooters Go Green in Boston (currently closed until 02/23/11) to see if they could match or beat. I'm waiting for a reply.
I plan on slapping down the cash on either by Saturday at the latest

Also, incase you didn't know. The MadAss is a manual shift bike, if that matters to you...

Kaos,

Does that mean Hugo is really deciding between a Scooter and a small Motorcycle?

BuddyLicious wrote:

Kaos wrote:

Hugo wrote:Both the MA 125 and Buddy 125 MSRP at around $2700. I found a local MA dealer in the Boston area to agree to an off-season offer of $1995 OTD. I also emailed Scooters Go Green in Boston (currently closed until 02/23/11) to see if they could match or beat. I'm waiting for a reply.
I plan on slapping down the cash on either by Saturday at the latest

Also, incase you didn't know. The MadAss is a manual shift bike, if that matters to you...

Kaos,

Does that mean Hugo is really deciding between a Scooter and a small Motorcycle?

The Madass is more of a big moped than a small motorcycle. They're neat bikes, but vastly different than a Buddy.

It is technically a small motorcycle. I do realize that it is under powered--max speed 55+/- mph. Having owned a Ruckus, Typhoon 70cc, Rattler and Zuma 70cc, that's good enough for me.
I have a hard time ignoring the minimalist design of the MA.
I do most of my own work on two-wheelers, and I've become tired of years of removing plastic panels in order to maintain or diagnose major parts. Everything on the MA is right there at a glance.

sound to me like you have already made your decision.

They are both a huge amount of fun, but like Eric said, it's really down to what you want to use them for. The MadAss is funky, a bit recalcitrant and manual, the Buddy 125 is a rip-roaring but pretty refined automatic. They are about as different as a 125 can be. If you have to use it for commuting in traffic, I'd get the Buddy. If you don't ride in traffic, or have a traffic-free commute, I'd get the MadAss. Recall that the MadAss lacks a fuel gauge, and that's a PIA in a commuter.

Either way, you will have a blast. Good luck on your choice, that's a tough one...

The other factor to consider is your storage needs. The Madass has none. The Buddy had a ton of underseat storage plus the ability to add a top case, saddle bags etc.

Skootz Kabootz wrote:The other factor to consider is your storage needs. The Madass has none...

Or as Hugo so aptly put it in the OP:

Hugo wrote:...Storage-wise, the MA does not hold a candle...

Hugo wrote:It is technically a small motorcycle. I do realize that it is under powered--max speed 55+/- mph. Having owned a Ruckus, Typhoon 70cc, Rattler and Zuma 70cc, that's good enough for me.
I have a hard time ignoring the minimalist design of the MA.
I do most of my own work on two-wheelers, and I've become tired of years of removing plastic panels in order to maintain or diagnose major parts. Everything on the MA is right there at a glance.

Granted, I've only ridden the 50, not the 125, but it rides much more like a bicycle than a motorcycle does. That being said, at 125cc its LEGALLY a small motorcycle.

They very neat bikes, I especially like the frame integrated gas tank on them.

Things are really heating up now...! I just got a response from the Genuine dealer, and they are willing to match the 2010 MA 125 deal with a leftover 2009 Buddy 125 to the dollar. I will get back to them by phone tomorrow after work.
I truly love both vehicles, and they each have something to offer over the other.
My eyes and yearning for something different leans toward the MA, but my 26" inseam and the necessity of being able to carry my Kryptonite NY Chain and other things such as tools and various small cargo for running errands tips back to the Buddy.
The Buddy is certainly much more practical, but passing on the MadAss might haunt my curiosity for a long time.
If I choose the Buddy, I would have to replace the existing panels with the flat Black Jack ones, just for a more kick-ass appearance.
I'm at the point of just simply tossing a coin.
As previously mentioned, I will make a final decision before the end of the week.
Signing off for tonight (I have to be at work at 5am).

I love the Buddy, but if your looking for something KickAss then I'd go with the madass. I don't care what you do to a Buddy, it's never gonna look even remotely tough. I mean it is called the Buddy, not the Bully If I were you I'd go with the madass (after a test ride of course) as I think you'd be happier with that choice. If you get the Buddy I'm sure you'd be happy with the reliability and storage, but I don't think you'd ever be as happy with the look. My wife went with the Ruckus for the very same reason, she wanted badass, not buddy

jasondavis48108 wrote:I love the Buddy, but if your looking for something KickAss then I'd go with the madass. I don't care what you do to a Buddy, it's never gonna look even remotely tough. I mean it is called the Buddy, not the Bully If I were you I'd go with the madass (after a test ride of course) as I think you'd be happier with that choice. If you get the Buddy I'm sure you'd be happy with the reliability and storage, but I don't think you'd ever be as happy with the look. My wife went with the Ruckus for the very same reason, she wanted badass, not buddy

I dunno, I think the Buddy looks pretty bad-ass with a frame extension and 12" tire

<img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_ISCX ... .32.46.jpg">

I just say to get what rolls your socks. If it's not exactly what you want...make it so! The beast in my avatar was once a stock Rattler 110. Make what you want!

--Keys

jasondavis48108 wrote:I don't care what you do to a Buddy, it's never gonna look even remotely tough.

Our friends in Guam are doing a pretty good job of making the Buddy look badass.

Is the option of getting one now and the other in say 1-3 years available? Best of both worlds.

jasondavis48108 wrote:I don't care what you do to a Buddy, it's never gonna look even remotely tough.

BlackJack!

http://www.madassarmy.com/ can lead you to other riders of the madass, but part of me seems to recall a problem with the electrics on a madass. Spend some time read the forum to be sure. But the dudes at Pride of Cleveland did a trans-continental journey on one.

The buddy runs. It runs all the time, no question, no problem in my experience. I would own one if it didnt feel so small to me, but i've put somewhere near 400mi on demo bikes in the 125 and 150 flavors.

Kaos wrote:

jasondavis48108 wrote:I love the Buddy, but if your looking for something KickAss then I'd go with the madass. I don't care what you do to a Buddy, it's never gonna look even remotely tough. I mean it is called the Buddy, not the Bully If I were you I'd go with the madass (after a test ride of course) as I think you'd be happier with that choice. If you get the Buddy I'm sure you'd be happy with the reliability and storage, but I don't think you'd ever be as happy with the look. My wife went with the Ruckus for the very same reason, she wanted badass, not buddy

I dunno, I think the Buddy looks pretty bad-ass with a frame extension and 12" tire

<img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_ISCX ... .32.46.jpg">

I like the unassuming looks of Buddy, no one expects the Buddy to take off like it does. The madass looks like a moped to me, it will likely surprise people also but I doubt it can match the Buddy in performance.(have not ridden one, could be wrong) Not having to remove panels to do repairs may be a small bonus, which you will need with it being made in china. I'm way biased of course, this is a Buddy forum.

The MadAss sure looks badass, but stock, it's slow as heck away from a light compared to the Buddy and in top speed too. Just sayin'.

Damn... still flip-flopping. It's time to flip a coin

May be a custom unit...A Mad Buddy...? R

I think it is a big mistake to choose a chinese ride over a Buddy. They are pumping a lot of garbage our way right now. The Buddy is a quality made product. I have never seen a badass but feel secure in saying that thing will have bad welds, substandard steel and horrible wiring.

...noticed your edit.

Chilly wrote:I think it is a big mistake to choose a chinese ride over a Buddy. They are pumping a lot of garbage our way right now. The Buddy is a quality made product. I have never seen a badass but feel secure in saying that thing will have bad welds, substandard steel and horrible wiring.

...noticed your edit.

There's a big difference between some of the straight up junk being brought over from China and some of the bikes being made in China but imported and sold by more reputable companies. Many big scooter companies (SYM, Kymco, Piaggio) are building at least a couple models in China now and a lot of their parts are made there. The Madasses are pretty solid, especially in comparison to the generic no-name imports. I'm not going to go as far as to say the quality & reliability is comparable to the Buddy but it's not as bad as a Tank or Rocketa or whatever.

Thanks Eric...
... and yes, Chilly, I did edit. I've had an easier time choosing between which house to buy back in 2003.
I had a hard time selling my totally reliable Honda Ruckus (turtle) to move into position to make this power upgrade. As I sadly watched it drive away in the back of a pickup truck, the thought of my next perfect daily rider had better be the right decision.
I have read much about the Buddy being reliable, but my past Genuine experience with Rattler was not very good. It had starting and electrical/ wiring issues as well as many unaligned bolts stripping major threads of floor board into frame. I actually had to use vice grips to remove some of them. I fixed things up and unloaded it on craigslist within 3 months. Those issues are not much different than what people describe to be from mail order scooters.
I certainly would assume/ hope that Sachs, Germany has a QA/QC crew monitoring manufacturing of the MadAss.
Going to visit the Buddy 125 in S. Boston tomorrow. I'll be bringing a flashlight and dental mirror--just kidding

Hugo wrote:Going to visit the Buddy 125 in S. Boston tomorrow. I'll be bringing a flashlight and dental mirror--just kidding

In all total 100% no-kidding seriousness, I hope you will take a flashlight and dental mirror. It's your money after all. Don't take our word for it, check it out thoroughly for yourself.

ericalm wrote:

Chilly wrote:I think it is a big mistake to choose a chinese ride over a Buddy. They are pumping a lot of garbage our way right now. The Buddy is a quality made product. I have never seen a badass but feel secure in saying that thing will have bad welds, substandard steel and horrible wiring.

...noticed your edit.

There's a big difference between some of the straight up junk being brought over from China and some of the bikes being made in China but imported and sold by more reputable companies. Many big scooter companies (SYM, Kymco, Piaggio) are building at least a couple models in China now and a lot of their parts are made there. The Madasses are pretty solid, especially in comparison to the generic no-name imports. I'm not going to go as far as to say the quality & reliability is comparable to the Buddy but it's not as bad as a Tank or Rocketa or whatever.

i've had no problems with my "made in china" Agility and ride it hard and put it away wet. and when i say no problems i mean with build quality, overall solidity, things coming loose and what not. i would expect it to be reliable up to this point (2000 miles) but it also seems pretty well built. it's a really basic scooter, and i am not thrilled with the instrument cluster. but it doesn't feel loosey goosey, and when i've had some panels off all looks in place and tidy

what does surprise me is Piaggio chooses Znen (same maker of many a cheap china scoot) to assemble the Fly series scooters for some markets, if not all. personally, i think it shows. on a scooter from an italian maker and parent company of Vespa, i can't help but see it's cheapness. the same might be said of my scooter....but it is cheap. like $900 cheaper then the Fly. and it looks sort of cool, because it's not trying to look....italian. it looks sort of rough and tumble, not faux european like the Fly. and i believe it's made in a Kymco factory, under the subsidiary of a Kymco owned company where much of Kymco's R&D is also done for many of their scooters

it seems Piaggio just picked some generic chinese scooter maker to slap together the Fly. i rode past one the other day and thought "china scoot" until i realized it was indeed a Fly 150. i must admit i don't like the styling of the scooter, anyway. but it also screamed cheap imo. and it was brand new!

and what of the Typhoon? ugh!

ok now i'm just going on a bit...but still

big meh

Kaos wrote:

jasondavis48108 wrote:I love the Buddy, but if your looking for something KickAss then I'd go with the madass. I don't care what you do to a Buddy, it's never gonna look even remotely tough. I mean it is called the Buddy, not the Bully If I were you I'd go with the madass (after a test ride of course) as I think you'd be happier with that choice. If you get the Buddy I'm sure you'd be happy with the reliability and storage, but I don't think you'd ever be as happy with the look. My wife went with the Ruckus for the very same reason, she wanted badass, not buddy

I dunno, I think the Buddy looks pretty bad-ass with a frame extension and 12" tire

<img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_ISCX ... .32.46.jpg">

o.k. o.k. I agree that when people go to the outer edges of modding insanity the Buddy can look Badass. But how many folks have the skill and are as crazy as Kaos

The Buddy was never meant to be the scooter said about the rider, "hey, don't f*ck with me" When I see a Buddy I think, hey that's a really nice look'n scoot, not, damn where did Mad Max get that tough ass look'n scooter

As for the Black Jack, no way, it doesn't look badass.
Awesome, yes
Tougher than my Little Italia, definitely

Let's face it, the Stella looks tougher than the Buddy. At least it's made out of metal

This in no way takes away from the awesomeness of the buddy of course. There is a reason that I own a Buddy and not a MaddAss or a Ruckus, or a Harely dark cutsom for that matter. I like the fact that scooters and the scooter community don't really pride themselves on being tough and unapproachable. I also like the fact that when I were my black helmet which is covered in skulls while riding my Buddy 50, it doesn't take a genius to see the irony

jasondavis48108 wrote:The Buddy was never meant to be the scooter said about the rider, "hey, don't f*ck with me"

Considering the buyers that the Bubu is primarily marketed to by PGO in Taiwan, I think it's meant to be the scooter that says "hey, wanna f*ck me?"
I guess deep down, I'm a Chinese teenage girl.

jasondavis48108 wrote:I also like the fact that when I were my black helmet which is covered in skulls while riding my Buddy 50, it doesn't take a genius to see the irony

Likewise with the irony of my "Flash" logo.
Because deep down I am also an American 10-year-old boy.

JHScoot wrote:what does surprise me is Piaggio chooses Znen (same maker of many a cheap china scoot) to assemble the Fly series scooters for some markets, if not all. personally, i think it shows. on a scooter from an italian maker and parent company of Vespa, i can't help but see it's cheapness. the same might be said of my scooter....but it is cheap. like $900 cheaper then the Fly. and it looks sort of cool, because it's not trying to look....italian. it looks sort of rough and tumble, not faux european like the Fly. and i believe it's made in a Kymco factory, under the subsidiary of a Kymco owned company where much of Kymco's R&D is also done for many of their scooters

it seems Piaggio just picked some generic chinese scooter maker to slap together the Fly. i rode past one the other day and thought "china scoot" until i realized it was indeed a Fly 150. i must admit i don't like the styling of the scooter, anyway. but it also screamed cheap imo. and it was brand new!

Careful what you say there, JHScoot. The Fly is a pretty good scooter. I think all of the Piaggio/Vespa 150 engines are made in China now, even for the bikes assembled in Italy. There are many people who will say that build quality on the Fly isn't on a par with the pre-Chinese ones. Some people will make this point about any of the scooters made in China by outside companies and they may be right. The point of all of these is to offer buyers a cheaper, lower end option relative to each company's other offerings. As well as cheaper manufacturing, the quality of the materials is often lower and the fit and finish slightly compromised.

I have to say, the earlier Kymco Agilities didn't compare well with other Kymcos in terms of build quality and (reportedly) reliability. And they just looked cheap as hell, IMHO. The more recent ones (maybe the last 2 model years, but I don't recall if they brought any over for 2010) are somewhat better but still not quite as good as even Kymco's Taiwanese scoots, IMHO.

In terms of looks, it's strange to call a scooter that was originally built in Italy by an Italian company "faux European." It's pretty authentically European. The Typhoon does look more like generic scoots, but mostly because the Chinese are copying its style, not the other way around. That's kind of like saying a Honda Joker or Yamaha Vino looks like a generic Chinese scoot.

But if you're whipping out various Piaggio models to take potshots at, maybe it's because you haven't seen these gems from Kymco, the company with scooter bearing names such as "Like," "Xciting," "Grand Dink," and "Yager":
Sting 50


Sento 50


You have to figure a company that imports seven 50cc scooter models is going to have a few dogs, though.

I'm not trying to say there's anything wrong with your scoot or Kymco (except maybe the seven 50cc models part, which is just insane); the Agilities are pretty good overall. But you're throwing a lot of rocks for someone who lives in a glass house.

TVB wrote:

jasondavis48108 wrote:The Buddy was never meant to be the scooter said about the rider, "hey, don't f*ck with me"

Considering the buyers that the Bubu is primarily marketed to by PGO in Taiwan, I think it's meant to be the scooter that says "hey, wanna f*ck me?"
I guess deep down, I'm a Chinese teenage girl.

jasondavis48108 wrote:I also like the fact that when I were my black helmet which is covered in skulls while riding my Buddy 50, it doesn't take a genius to see the irony

Likewise with the irony of my "Flash" logo.
Because deep down I am also an American 10-year-old boy.

I really enjoy reading your comments and will click on a topic I'm not remotely interested in just to read them, but this is the best ever.

What did you think of the Rattler 110??

jon

birdmove wrote:What did you think of the Rattler 110??

jon

I know a guy that rode one from DC to the North Pole and back, that should give it some credibility.

BootScootin'FireFighter wrote:I know a guy that rode one from DC to the North Pole and back, that should give it some credibility.

Um... to the Arctic Circle, not the North Pole. Unless you're referring to a jolly old elf of some kind.

TVB wrote:

BootScootin'FireFighter wrote:I know a guy that rode one from DC to the North Pole and back, that should give it some credibility.

Um... to the Arctic Circle, not the North Pole. Unless you're referring to a jolly old elf of some kind.

You're right, I took it out of context. I'm sure he could see the NP from the beach, same way Sarah Palin can see Russia from her front yard in Wasilla.

I can see the entire planet on Google Earth.

ericalm wrote:I can see the entire planet on Google Earth.

ericalm wrote:

JHScoot wrote:what does surprise me is Piaggio chooses Znen (same maker of many a cheap china scoot) to assemble the Fly series scooters for some markets, if not all. personally, i think it shows. on a scooter from an italian maker and parent company of Vespa, i can't help but see it's cheapness. the same might be said of my scooter....but it is cheap. like $900 cheaper then the Fly. and it looks sort of cool, because it's not trying to look....italian. it looks sort of rough and tumble, not faux european like the Fly. and i believe it's made in a Kymco factory, under the subsidiary of a Kymco owned company where much of Kymco's R&D is also done for many of their scooters

it seems Piaggio just picked some generic chinese scooter maker to slap together the Fly. i rode past one the other day and thought "china scoot" until i realized it was indeed a Fly 150. i must admit i don't like the styling of the scooter, anyway. but it also screamed cheap imo. and it was brand new!

Careful what you say there, JHScoot. The Fly is a pretty good scooter. I think all of the Piaggio/Vespa 150 engines are made in China now, even for the bikes assembled in Italy. There are many people who will say that build quality on the Fly isn't on a par with the pre-Chinese ones. Some people will make this point about any of the scooters made in China by outside companies and they may be right. The point of all of these is to offer buyers a cheaper, lower end option relative to each company's other offerings. As well as cheaper manufacturing, the quality of the materials is often lower and the fit and finish slightly compromised.

I have to say, the earlier Kymco Agilities didn't compare well with other Kymcos in terms of build quality and (reportedly) reliability. And they just looked cheap as hell, IMHO. The more recent ones (maybe the last 2 model years, but I don't recall if they brought any over for 2010) are somewhat better but still not quite as good as even Kymco's Taiwanese scoots, IMHO.

In terms of looks, it's strange to call a scooter that was originally built in Italy by an Italian company "faux European." It's pretty authentically European. The Typhoon does look more like generic scoots, but mostly because the Chinese are copying its style, not the other way around. That's kind of like saying a Honda Joker or Yamaha Vino looks like a generic Chinese scoot.

But if you're whipping out various Piaggio models to take potshots at, maybe it's because you haven't seen these gems from Kymco, the company with scooter bearing names such as "Like," "Xciting," "Grand Dink," and "Yager":
Sting 50


Sento 50


You have to figure a company that imports seven 50cc scooter models is going to have a few dogs, though.

I'm not trying to say there's anything wrong with your scoot or Kymco (except maybe the seven 50cc models part, which is just insane); the Agilities are pretty good overall. But you're throwing a lot of rocks for someone who lives in a glass house.

well, my house may be glass, but at least it doesn't pretend to be crystal (Piaggio) when it is indeed glass

i was aware the term "faux european" most likely didn't make much sense being the Fly comes from a european maker, and was most likely misguided. but i just think the Fly looks part Lambretta and part....something else. my biggest beef? the rear faring. holy hell who came up with that? now since i am new to scooters maybe the chinese have simply polluted the waters with all their stupid clones...but those swoopy lines make little sense to me on that scooter. and the leg shield seems overdone and....protrudes, to say the least. of course just my opinion. but remember, its just my POV peering out my glass walls at the crystal house that is Piaggio/ is it wrong to expect a bit more styling effort from the company which brings us Vespa?

that said, i do believe the scoot is a good value in it's class. and i appreciate its good size, if not it's apparent bulk. i mean i like scooters and really don't object much to any. i just like discussing things i am passionate about into minutia. thats all i am doing here

so far as Kymco? well, i have been made a fan by one of its more basic scoots, albeit my first. and the way they name their scooters....well, what do you expect from a company who's slogan of "Better Then Best" makes little or no sense? (almost on par with my nonsensical faux europeon remark!)

however the Xciting, Grand Dink (Vista and People), and Yager are all good scooters. it is a cluttered field from them, sure. and the 50cc scooters (the Sento and Sting in particular) do leave something to be desired. but, what of the aforementioned Like?i would say Kymco may have gotten right what Piaggio seemingly got a bit wrong with the Fly tbh. at least in the case of styling. i appreciate Piaggio seemingly trying to be just a little different, perhaps. but they don't have to try to be tbh. if you took the badges off these scoots you would most likely guess one was made by the other





and the coming Sento (if it ever gets here) is a pretty good step up from the previous imo. it's just a humble little scoot




oh, and i saw this on Craigslist for $1100. its the one from the Christmas Lights Ride. in case you're interested

ericalm wrote:I can see the entire planet on Google Earth.

Except for the places you can't. OK, some of these are just people seeing things they don't understand, but some locations are deliberately "redacted".

BootScootin'FireFighter wrote:

TVB wrote:

BootScootin'FireFighter wrote:I know a guy that rode one from DC to the North Pole and back, that should give it some credibility.

Um... to the Arctic Circle, not the North Pole. Unless you're referring to a jolly old elf of some kind.

You're right, I took it out of context. I'm sure he could see the NP from the beach, same way Sarah Palin can see Russia from her front yard in Wasilla.

All I can see from my front yard is snow