oil? battery? starting and holding idle sucks :(

wifiducky · Post by **wifiducky** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:03 am

hey everyone iv been having some pains with my buddy when i start her up it wants to die and sucks holding idle unless i give it alot of gas even then i cant just let go or it will stall i must let go of the gas slowly if i want it to stay running after riding it gets better but still it some times will do it at lights

any ideas?

i do need to change the oil could that me it?
or maybe the battery though i just had it charged the lights always look crappy not bright at all

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:33 am

Have you been riding often?

Sounds like low idle, carb gunk or bad gasoline.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:10 pm

ericalm wrote:Sounds like low idle, carb gunk or bad gasoline.

Agree. Also might check the air filter. And really unlikely to have anything to do with an overdue oil change.

JoshWED · Post by **JoshWED** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:24 pm

also agree with the above. other item could be the general tuning: as the weather gets warmer (and humidity changes, etc) I've noticed that bikes need to get tuned to hold the optimum idle.

i feel the onslaught of "wintering whoopsies" (as it was recently called) coming! a great sign of more riders!

JoshWED · Post by **JoshWED** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:27 pm

here's a good semi-technical explanation from dirtrider.net:

The Effect of Temperature, Altitude and Humidity on Jetting

Once your jetting is set it’s not necessarily set for life. Changes in air temperature, altitude and humidity can have an effect on how your engine runs.

If you captured a measured volume of air on a humid 90° F day at sea level or a cool dry 40° F day at 10,000 feet both would contain about 22% oxygen. The density and therefore the total number of oxygen molecules however would differ enough to effect the performance of your engine.

Temperature- For most of us changes in air temperature will have the greatest effect on our jetting. As the air temperature gets colder the air density increases. The air molecules become less active ( move around less ) and therefore take up less space. Because they take up less space more air, and therefore more oxygen, can fit into a measured volume of air as the temperature decreases. As the temperature drops the engine will begin to run leaner and more gasoline will need to be added to compensate. As the temperature increase the engine will begin to run richer and less gasoline will be needed.

Altitude- Again this is an issue of air density. At sea level atmospheric pressure is around 15 psi and as the altitude increased the atmospheric pressure decreases. Because less pressure is exerted on a measured volume of air as the altitude increases the air molecules are able to relax and they take up more space leaving less space for additional molecules. The higher the altitude the less air in a measured volume and therefore less oxygen present so jetting will have to be leaned to compensate.

Humidity- Humidity is a measure of how much water vapor is in the air. The higher the humidity the less space there is for additional molecules of air and therefore oxygen. As the humidity increases there is less oxygen and therefore the engine runs richer. Jetting that may have been spot on in the cool dry morning air may start to run rich as the temperature and humidity increase over the course of the day.

wifiducky · Post by **wifiducky** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:34 pm

i just got it back about a week ago from a dealer across town had the big bore put in and a tune up i was hopping all that cash would help but didnt its my main ride now so yep i ride her every day. Im thinking maybe some seafoam new oil and a air filter to start because i dont really want to put more of my green into her at the moment

p.s. thank you for helping

Post by **Lostmycage** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:47 pm

Take it back to the shop that installed your big bore kit and ask them to fix the idle. Second guessing them and opening up multiple threads with the same questions isn't going to get you any answers. Any ideas that you try from suggestions found on here will just make diagnosing the idle problems by your shop all the more difficult. Since they charge by the hour, the sooner (and less complicated) you get them to fix the carb issues, the less expensive it's going to be.

This should have been part of the install process, and you might have been able to get them to adjust it. If you want to fix it on your own, that's your call, but you've got to say up front what the engine's history it. The solution for a spring time rough idle on a stock engine is going to be drastically different than a freshly kitted and unadjusted engine.

wifiducky · Post by **wifiducky** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:05 pm

Lostmycage wrote:Take it back to the shop that installed your big bore kit and ask them to fix the idle. Second guessing them and opening up multiple threads with the same questions isn't going to get you any answers. Any ideas that you try from suggestions found on here will just make diagnosing the idle problems by your shop all the more difficult. Since they charge by the hour, the sooner (and less complicated) you get them to fix the carb issues, the less expensive it's going to be.

This should have been part of the install process, and you might have been able to get them to adjust it. If you want to fix it on your own, that's your call, but you've got to say up front what the engine's history it. The solution for a spring time rough idle on a stock engine is going to be drastically different than a freshly kitted and unadjusted engine.

i cant i had to pay them 75 bucks just to get it there :/

Post by **Lostmycage** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:12 pm

Are you saying that they charge $75 just to look at it?

Part of, if not all of, a tune up is having it idle smoothly. You've already paid them to do the work, so have them do the work.

cheez37 · Post by **cheez37** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:57 pm

wifiducky wrote:i cant i had to pay them 75 bucks just to get it there :/

Who did the work and where in Houston do you live?

wifiducky · Post by **wifiducky** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:40 am

cheez37 wrote:
wifiducky wrote:i cant i had to pay them 75 bucks just to get it there :/
Who did the work and where in Houston do you live?

scooter smith i live in deerpark

wifiducky · Post by **wifiducky** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:42 am

Lostmycage wrote:Are you saying that they charge $75 just to look at it?

Part of, if not all of, a tune up is having it idle smoothly. You've already paid them to do the work, so have them do the work.

nono 75 is to get my scooter there lol 75 just for the trip there and back they did do the work its just idling very low now :/ it was high when i sent it in

Post by **Lostmycage** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:54 pm

If it's ridable, ride it down there. If it's not, there's an article in the Tech library on how to adjust the idle speed. That *might* be all you need to do, but again, my advice is to take it in and get what you paid for.

wifiducky · Post by **wifiducky** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:27 am

Lostmycage wrote:If it's ridable, ride it down there. If it's not, there's an article in the Tech library on how to adjust the idle speed. That *might* be all you need to do, but again, my advice is to take it in and get what you paid for.

ill riad it down one day after a get the oil changed thanks for the help though

ScooterTrash · Post by **ScooterTrash** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:33 am

Idle jet is plugged or they didn't adjust the idle for the new cylinder

wifiducky · Post by **wifiducky** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:05 am

ScooterTrash wrote:Idle jet is plugged or they didn't adjust the idle for the new cylinder

hmm ok ill email him and see what he will do about this

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:36 pm

I gotta go with what everyone else is saying. You paid a shop to work on your scoot and it runs worse now than it did when you brought it in? Sounds like a shop problem to me.

wifiducky · Post by **wifiducky** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:35 am

Syd wrote:I gotta go with what everyone else is saying. You paid a shop to work on your scoot and it runs worse now than it did when you brought it in? Sounds like a shop problem to me.

well i did only pay for the big bore kit to be installed and i talked to him and he wants 75 more and thats 75+75 to get it there and back theres no easy way to fight the guy i mean its across town ill have the carb cleaned and be done with it if it doesn't help then ill see what revenge i can pull out of my hats(lots of hats) hahaha but i dont want to have drama about it i mean he came back and by bat was dead too its life ill just go to a motorcycle shop for now on and not a buddy shop

wifiducky · Post by **wifiducky** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:36 am

ScooterTrash wrote:Idle jet is plugged or they didn't adjust the idle for the new cylinder

the guy said it sounds like that too so ill have it cleaned thanks buddddddy

Post by **jrsjr** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:05 am

The only other time I've seen exactly those symptoms and it was not the carb, it turned out to be a stuck valve. That was Rob's Cannonball Buddy in 2008. Exact symptoms you describe, mimics carb problems, but isn't.

Just a thought...

wifiducky · Post by **wifiducky** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:53 am

jrsjr wrote:The only other time I've seen exactly those symptoms and it was not the carb, it turned out to be a stuck valve. That was Rob's Cannonball Buddy in 2008. Exact symptoms you describe, mimics carb problems, but isn't.

Just a thought...

... im going to cry now

Post by **jrsjr** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:13 am

wifiducky wrote:
jrsjr wrote:The only other time I've seen exactly those symptoms and it was not the carb, it turned out to be a stuck valve. That was Rob's Cannonball Buddy in 2008. Exact symptoms you describe, mimics carb problems, but isn't.

Just a thought...
... im going to cry now

Don't panic! Even if I am right, and I am NEVER right, right? A stuck valve is not a big deal for a mechanic. No more so than a carb problem.

wifiducky · Post by **wifiducky** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:54 am

jrsjr wrote:
wifiducky wrote:
jrsjr wrote:The only other time I've seen exactly those symptoms and it was not the carb, it turned out to be a stuck valve. That was Rob's Cannonball Buddy in 2008. Exact symptoms you describe, mimics carb problems, but isn't.

Just a thought...
... im going to cry now
Don't panic! Even if I am right, and I am NEVER right, right? A stuck valve is not a big deal for a mechanic. No more so than a carb problem.

oh good LOL you had me scared there well what ever it is i will get it done i love my baby as if it was my own hahahahaaaa would seafoam help any with junk in the carb? iv never used or seen the stuff but people love to talk about it

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:04 am

Couldn't hurt to try it - give it a few Oz. In the tank. However, the idle jet is so tiny (think a hairsbreadth) that the slightest bit of solid gunk might block it, and the SeaFoam might not dissolve or dislodge it. The fact, however, that your bike starts offers some hope - some fuel is getting through.

Post by **Lostmycage** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:27 am

Wait... did you pay for a Big bore install only or did you also pay for a tune-up like you said at the beginning of the thread?

Either way, part of a big bore install is getting it to run right. Shame on that shop if they're giving it back to you without making sure it's running right. Shame on you if you've been messing with it without knowing what you're doing.

I still think your best bet is to go through your shop. They should have at the minimum teched it to ensure that it's idling correctly.

I'm starting to feel like there's a slice of the story that's missing here...

wifiducky · Post by **wifiducky** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:44 am

Lostmycage wrote:Wait... did you pay for a Big bore install only or did you also pay for a tune-up like you said at the beginning of the thread?

Either way, part of a big bore install is getting it to run right. Shame on that shop if they're giving it back to you without making sure it's running right. Shame on you if you've been messing with it without knowing what you're doing.

I still think your best bet is to go through your shop. They should have at the minimum teched it to ensure that it's idling correctly.

I'm starting to feel like there's a slice of the story that's missing here...

heres the email about the work i wanted

"hello this is lucas

i wanted to know how much it would be to have

NCY Decompression Tube and a 161cc Prima Cylinder Kit,
put on to my buddy 125 and my carb re jetted?

I already have the parts and have jetted the carb with a #100 though i cant get it out of the lean or rich area

i will need a pick up and drop off as well seeing i cant drive on the carb without fear

please and thank you

lucas"

I wanted the carb looked at and all that good stuff
I put on a new pipe thats why i needed it
I was thinking that was what i payed for
plus he comes back telling me to get a oil change
and a dead battery :/ and for that i dont think i can trust them with any jobs other then big work like having something put on aka big bore
i dont know why im having the problem but online it seems others are too missing nuts and stuff like that

so ill stick with my guys for the carb stuff its not a big deal im just one who likes to trust everyone sadly that cant happen all the time

ill put a update after i have the carb cleaned

but with that said i may have misunderstood and im not saying that there bad but im not happy how it played out

wifiducky · Post by **wifiducky** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:27 am

PeteH wrote:Couldn't hurt to try it - give it a few Oz. In the tank. However, the idle jet is so tiny (think a hairsbreadth) that the slightest bit of solid gunk might block it, and the SeaFoam might not dissolve or dislodge it. The fact, however, that your bike starts offers some hope - some fuel is getting through.

kk will do though i must say Noob question "WTF do i get seafoam HAHAHAHA" would any auto store have it

Post by **jrsjr** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:02 am

wifiducky wrote:say Noob question "WTF do i get seafoam HAHAHAHA" would any auto store have it

WalMart. Some auto parts places. If you ask, and they have never heard of Seafoam, don't let them sell you something else. Just leave.

I seriously doubt that Seafoam will do much good, though I also don't think I will do any harm as long as you use it as directed on the can. In the end, you will probably need to use pressurized air to blow the passages in the carb out.

After rereading your posts above, I think the first step would be to contact the folks who did the work on your motor, even if it's difficult to get the scoot to them. They may have simply made a jetting error (or some other unusual error that will be way easier for them to find than you). If that is the case, they definitely should be responsible for sorting it out.

wifiducky · Post by **wifiducky** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:03 pm

jrsjr wrote:
wifiducky wrote:say Noob question "WTF do i get seafoam HAHAHAHA" would any auto store have it
WalMart. Some auto parts places. If you ask, and they have never heard of Seafoam, don't let them sell you something else. Just leave.

I seriously doubt that Seafoam will do much good, though I also don't think I will do any harm as long as you use it as directed on the can. In the end, you will probably need to use pressurized air to blow the passages in the carb out.

After rereading your posts above, I think the first step would be to contact the folks who did the work on your motor, even if it's difficult to get the scoot to them. They may have simply made a jetting error (or some other unusual error that will be way easier for them to find than you). If that is the case, they definitely should be responsible for sorting it out.

kk thanks ill go get some though just to try as i say "you cant fail if you try" and i think ill try blowing out the jet its ok to take it out as long as i dont touch the mix screw right? if i cant do it ill take it to my local motorcycle shop i trust them