been part of a scooter train?

bigbropgo · Post by **bigbropgo** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:32 am

On another forum a poster told a story about having a long train of cars behind his 50 cc scoot. And how he was feeling bad or whatever. And how it made his day to see another scooter train coming in the opposite direction. Funny story. But I wondered how most people handle this situation. Pull over? Hold tight and stay on course? Give em the bird? I'm sure each state has laws that vary. But lets assume you are going the posted speed limit on a non freeway/expressway. Non scooter restricted roadway. I have pulled over before, I have also been traveling over the posted and still had people ridin me. And I didn't pull over.

This isn't a "those crazy cagers " thread. Just interested in others opinions.

jmkjr72 · Post by **jmkjr72** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:52 am

as long as im doing the speed limit +- 5 mph piss on them i hold my postion in the lane

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:06 am

Remember, though, that Buddy speedo reads maybe 5%, 10% or more high, so 45mph indicated is likely < 40mph actual.

It's a good idea to use a GPS to find out how yours actually behaves.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:14 am

i would not want to ride a scooter not capable of easily maintaining 50mph in traffic. and getting there with decent acceleration, too

that said, idk? i feel like as long as i am at the speed limit people are welcome to go around me. but if it were a one lane road (two way) and i were going along at 35mph in a 40 or 45mph zone? i think i would move over. maybe ride the scoot on the side of the road like a moped / bicycle

can't say i have ever been part of a "scooter train," though. and i certainly wouldn't want to lead one. i'd be happy being the caboose

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:21 am

when I'm on my Buddy 50, if I'm going the speed limit then they can just go around. If I'm on the higher speed 45-55pmh single lane road then I pull over and let them pass. As far as I'm concerned its just about being reasonable.

BootScootin'FireFighter · Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:46 am

urban areas I wouldn't pull over, considering they're most likely turning soon or we'll be stacked at a red light shortly anyway. On more rural roadways, I'll cruise at around 10 over for a while and if there is a few cars patiently lined up behind me and the shoulder is wide enough, I sometimes pull over. If the driver is close enough to check my prostate, then I definately get out of their way in rural areas. People are nuts, I'm alone, and the police and ambulance are a long ways away. But those are rare occurrences that I'm in that situation.

AtlBuddy · Post by **AtlBuddy** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:56 am

To me it depends on you own comfort level. Just as if you were in a car and someone was tailgating you. If you are nervous or tense then you are more likely to have an accident. Remember though that we are the smallest on the road and rather it's right or wrong, we just can't win against a car.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:10 am

In my everyday 50cc riding I rarely pick up a train of cars behind me, but on road trips, especially where getting from A to B leaves me no choice but to take the occasional two-lane highway at 40mph... it happens. I don't like it, for my sake or theirs, but there are lot of things one doesn't like in life. :shrug:

Unless I'd be afraid for my safety if I stayed in the lane, I do not ride on the shoulder. Aside from the fact that it's illegal, they just aren't safe to ride on: blowing sand and dirt and leaves from the sides of the road, bits of pavement and junk from the road itself, rumble strips rough enough to wipe a scooter out just by crossing them, and sometimes they simply end without warning. Plus there's the principle of the thing: it's my lane as much as it is theirs, I'm morally superior because I'm riding a scooter (and just because I know I am), and they really need to learn to slow down anyway for their own emotional well-being, amiright?

However, if I see a bunch of cages stacked up behind me, I know how aggravating that is to them, and the glimmer of empathy I used to feel for other people nags at me. Plus I hate to have people breathing down my neck. So I start looking for a place to turn, or maybe pull over. Side roads are perfect for this: when you hit the turn signal and begin to slow down for the turn, they might groan briefly, but then the spark of reason will glow dimly in their brains and they'll realize they're about to get rid of you. Most of the time the lead cage will stop tailgating you at that point and let you turn in peace. Once I'm on the side street (or stopped on the shoulder), I'll let the stack of grim people in grim cages zoom past, then leap back into the traffic lane and enjoy the minutes until the next cage bumps up against my ass.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:22 am

Holding up a long line of cars is a potentially dangerous situation. You may be perfectly content to hold up traffic but those behind you are much more likely to do something boneheaded like cross a double-yellow line or swerve around you. I've had drivers pull that kind of crap when I was going well over the speed limit.

Pulling over, as TVB mentioned, can be pretty dangerous too.

IMHO, it's best to use your best judgment in selecting routes and avoid the situation when possible.

Midnight Drifter · Post by **Midnight Drifter** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:30 am

ericalm wrote:boneheaded like cross a double-yellow line

Uh oh; by your standards, I'm a bonehead.

But then again, when I'm behind a slow scooter, I'll match his pace and keep space and try to be a 'blocker' for motorists behind me that I KNOW will ride his or her butt.

But if it's the car going slow in front of me, the instant I don't see traffic in front of me, as long as there's no cop, the solid line can kiss my ass.

But NJ also has a bad habit of making nearly desolate stretches of road double-yellow. Maybe other states aren't so paranoid in their highway design.

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:39 pm

I once had a short line of cars behind me on a country road where people usually go however fast they possibly can. I was WOT which was over the posted limit, but some truck 2 cars back decides he's had enough. He goes flying around the car behind me and myself, while at the same time a car is pulling out of their driveway going the opposite direction. The truck had to floor it and swerve fast to avoid hitting the oncoming car and was probably within a foot of hitting him and only a couple feet away from hitting me! If they would have crashed at that speed, it would have been a huge pile-up and a LOT of people would have been seriously injured, maybe dead (including me). So I don't even mess around when people are being impatient, whether I'm going fast enough enough or not. I GET OUT OF THE WAY! Seriously, people are crazy and even a small accident on a scooter can be really bad.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:27 pm

ericalm wrote:Pulling over, as TVB mentioned, can be pretty dangerous too.

But pulling over and stopping briefly is still better than riding on the shoulder. The only time I've done that has been when I found myself in unrelenting traffic going up a steep hill and I figured that my 25mph butt was safer doing that than any of the alternatives.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:19 pm

Midnight Drifter wrote:
ericalm wrote:boneheaded like cross a double-yellow line
Uh oh; by your standards, I'm a bonehead.

But then again, when I'm behind a slow scooter, I'll match his pace and keep space and try to be a 'blocker' for motorists behind me that I KNOW will ride his or her butt.

But if it's the car going slow in front of me, the instant I don't see traffic in front of me, as long as there's no cop, the solid line can kiss my ass.

But NJ also has a bad habit of making nearly desolate stretches of road double-yellow. Maybe other states aren't so paranoid in their highway design.

It's one thing on a long, straight stretch with little other traffic but I've had cars pull around me (and sometimes other cars) on blind curves. FWIW, I've seen plenty of motorcyclists do this as well.

Wheelz · Post by **Wheelz** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:29 pm

When I ride out to the everglades, there is a stretch of US. 41 that is only two lanes. The posted speed limit is 55, but nobody does that, even though it is supposed to be a wildlife area

I have to pull off to the shoulder 3 or 4 times every time, I figure it's just safer, than having somebody all agro behind me.

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:01 pm

In CA, you can be ticketed if you have more than 5 vehicles behind you. They suggest you use one of the turnouts or pull to the side (where you can safely do it) and let people by.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:48 pm

pcbikedude wrote:In CA, you can be ticketed if you have more than 5 vehicles behind you. They suggest you use one of the turnouts or pull to the side (where you can safely do it) and let people by.

Yup, I have a friend who was kicked off Hwy. 1 for going too slow, even though he has a (famously pokey) 150cc Vespa VB1.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:00 pm

Right or wrong, I think any time you are holding up a bunch of cars, even if it's not a big bunch, you are inviting road rage and other dangerous behaviors. Most everyone on the road allows to little time to get where they are going and rather than get angry at themselves they get angry at whatever appears to be making them late(er), in this case that dang slow scooter up front. As they mention day one in the MSF class, any contest between a scooter and a car, the scooter loses. Best to pull over and let the angry cagers go by so you can enjoy your ride in peace and live to tell the tale.

Stormswift · Post by **Stormswift** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:54 pm

My philosophy is: they could have a bicyclist in front of them instead of a scooter. At least we are motorized

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:44 pm

Stormswift wrote:My philosophy is: they could have a bicyclist in front of them instead of a scooter. At least we are motorized

Bicyclists are getting killed all over! It's like a massacre out there.

Chilly · Post by **Chilly** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:58 pm

To me the only thing that matters here is safety. Bicycle, 50cc scoot, cage...they are meant to be ridden on the street and we are entitled to use the street with these vehicles as long as we are being responsible. That said I was going to buy a 50cc, but the way roads and drivers are here my research told me I would be putting myself in great danger daily simply by irratating south florida motorists. The drivers here are not patient and not pleasant and are ready to kill at the drop of the hat(I know all this having depended on a bicycle for transport for the last 8 years). So in the end no way would I ever lead a train around here, not because I'm not entitled to the road same as others but because I know the rage it will bring out of the nutcase cagers. Pretty much the same reason I have given up on bicycling, a very sad thing. Thank god my 125 holds her own on our streets, no worries there.

cheez37 · Post by **cheez37** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:13 pm

Stormswift wrote:My philosophy is: they could have a bicyclist in front of them instead of a scooter. At least we are motorized

[Start rant...]

Motorized or not, you are still just a ~250 lb scooter trying to take on a 3000+ lb car. Doesn't matter what speed it is, you will lose every time.

I hate tailgaters and anti-MC drivers as much as the next guy, but my well being is more important to me being "right" about my scooter's place on the road. To me, the scooterist who takes the attitude "This is my lane and you have to wait for me even if I am going below the speed limit" is just as bad as the aggressive a** hole in a car who tailgates and does 30 over the speed limit.

As a rider, I have to take responsibility for my own safety, and not put myself in dangerous situations. The law and common road courtesy aren't force-fields that will protect me in an accident. I would love to do a loop around Galveston Bay, but I won't on my Buddy, because there are 2 unavoidable interstate stretches to cross bridges, and my bike can't maintain those speeds. I also understand that there are lots of aggressive drivers out there, and if I tried to cross those bridges, I would have one of them all over me. That's not a risk I am willing to take.

[End rant]

Phew, I feel better. Let the hating commence...

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:24 pm

cheez37 wrote:
Stormswift wrote:My philosophy is: they could have a bicyclist in front of them instead of a scooter. At least we are motorized
[Start rant...]

To me, the scooterist who takes the attitude "This is my lane and you have to wait for me even if I am going below the speed limit" is just as bad as the aggressive a** hole in a car who tailgates and does 30 over the speed limit.

[End rant]

Phew, I feel better. Let the hating commence...

I think at you'd be hard pressed to justify the statement that an individual going 40 in a 45mph speed zone is just as bad as some damn idiot going 75mph on the same strech of road. The person doing 40mph is much less likely to kill someone else in the process, not to mention that one is leagal and the other is not.

cheez37 · Post by **cheez37** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:59 pm

jasondavis48108 wrote:
cheez37 wrote:
Stormswift wrote:My philosophy is: they could have a bicyclist in front of them instead of a scooter. At least we are motorized
[Start rant...]

To me, the scooterist who takes the attitude "This is my lane and you have to wait for me even if I am going below the speed limit" is just as bad as the aggressive a** hole in a car who tailgates and does 30 over the speed limit.

[End rant]

Phew, I feel better. Let the hating commence...
I think at you'd be hard pressed to justify the statement that an individual going 40 in a 45mph speed zone is just as bad as some damn idiot going 75mph on the same strech of road. The person doing 40mph is much less likely to kill someone else in the process, not to mention that one is leagal and the other is not.

Point taken about comparing speed, however I wasn't talking about the speed or legality, per se. I was only talking about the attitude they take - "I'm doing what I want to do, and everyone else can f*** off." You are certainly correct that the effects between the scooterist and the car driver's attitude would differ.

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:55 pm

A little off the subject: This is why you need the appropriate scooter for your environment. If you want or have to go on freeways or travel interstate, buy a large (engine) scooter. If all your riding is in urban 25-35mph areas a 50cc scooter is fine.

In the suburban area where I live, nothing under 125cc would be practical to travel between the cities. We have too many hills and parkways with speed limits of 50mph or more.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:25 pm

jasondavis48108 wrote:I think at you'd be hard pressed to justify the statement that an individual going 40 in a 45mph speed zone is just as bad as some damn idiot going 75mph on the same strech of road. The person doing 40mph is much less likely to kill someone else in the process, not to mention that one is leagal and the other is not.

Right on. The difference is that the scooterist does have the right to be in that lane and traveling under the speed limit (which is a limit) as long as they're observing other laws.

I think I've mentioned this before, but I've been lamenting how many people seem to become angry whenever they're simply inconvenienced by someone doing something they have every right to do and are doing properly and respectfully. Specifically, bicyclists and scooterists, who are all too often endangered by others who are trying to save a couple minutes or even seconds. It's absurd. Sometimes, no matter how fast you're going on a scooter, drivers will be up your ass and trying to swerve around you.

Still, as others have wisely noted, acting well within our rights is kind of meaningless if we're in danger from those who don't respect those rights or who will risk our safety for their convenience. Sometimes we need to use our best judgement.

BigBenlor · Post by **BigBenlor** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:17 pm

Well said Eric, people are crazy. Do whatever it takes to stay away from crazies.
Ive got a friend who got a ticket on a 45mph road (in CO) because he was going 40 and there were 5 cars behind him in the left lane. he was about to turn left at a light, but the cop told him he was impeding the flow of traffic. He ended up fighting the ticket and they dropped it, but it's not worth that head-ache
People are crazy and want to get past you no matter how fast you go.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:57 pm

ericalm wrote: Still, as others have wisely noted, acting well within our rights is kind of meaningless if we're in danger from those who don't respect those rights or who will risk our safety for their convenience. Sometimes we need to use our best judgement.

+1 there have been many times when I just pull over and let a car pass. Generally I give it a minute cause they are so crazy I want them well ahead of me. I also do this when I suspect the driver behind me has been drinking

BootScootin'FireFighter · Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:51 pm

jasondavis48108 wrote:
ericalm wrote: Still, as others have wisely noted, acting well within our rights is kind of meaningless if we're in danger from those who don't respect those rights or who will risk our safety for their convenience. Sometimes we need to use our best judgement.
+1 there have been many times when I just pull over and let a car pass. Generally I give it a minute cause they are so crazy I want them well ahead of me. I also do this when I suspect the driver behind me has been drinking

when I had a cage, it was a VW GTI, handled great in the snow as long as I slowed down. I'd have SUVs fly past me on I-66, and eventually start seeing a few of them stuck in a ditch or spun out. One such driver who was tailgating me earlier I had come upon spun out and stuck. I tooted the horn and used some non choice words to the extent of "sucks to be you _________"..... (fill in the blank). It was awesome.

Modern Buddy

been part of a scooter train?

been part of a scooter train?

"training"