Is this a good deal?

A Neat Guy · Post by **A Neat Guy** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:07 am

Hello,

I am BRAND NEW to the scooter community. So new, in fact, I don't even have one yet. But - I'm pretty sure that I want a BlackJack.

I have found one - Brand New (still an '09) and it has ZERO miles on it. The MSRP is $3,599. The particular store where I found one is asking $2,799. So...out of the door, it would be about $3,200ish.

The Kelly Blue Book value on it says it's worth about $2600. So...I'm wondering if this is a good deal? Again, it's brand new - it's just been sitting in the store for about two years. You all would know much better than I would.

Thanks everyone,

A Neat Guy

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:51 am

i think its a good deal at $3200OTD, as its a great scooter. it is a '09 however. but if you are looking for resale value on ANY scooter outside a Vespa or certain maxi scoots, you are most likely barking up the wrong tree

i think i read recently a guy on the board got his for $2800OTD and most here considered that an outrageously good deal, and a rare one at that. if you think its too much, see if the dealer might throw in some accessories such as a rear rack, front rack, cowl protectors, a helmet, etc. i know earlier this year Genuine had a promo going where they offered all that stuff with a purchase of a Blackjack. maybe the dealer has some leftover stuff, too?

never hurts to ask

let me put it this way. having rode one of these scooters for 500 miles, today i would easily pay $3000OTD, and if push came to shove i would cough up $3200. you may have missed a little better deal as the weather is starting to warm, but just a little better

i'd still ask for some free stuff, though

easy · Post by **easy** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:14 am

i think all blackjacks are 09. I got mine last fall had to get from the warehouse and it was a 09.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:26 am

09 is the only Blackjack model year. If a Blackjack is the scooter you really want (and they are awesome scooters. Sounds like you've got a great deal on one too) grab it quick. They are discontinued and going fast. Once they're gone, they're gone.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:54 pm

Hey, Neat,

One thing to remember is that OTD in Missouri only includes the dealer's setup costs - the buyer takes care of all taxes and annual licensing at the time of registration, unlike say, California, where the dealer does the paperwork and collects your dough. So OTD is state-specific.

That said, your deal still sounds pretty good. I paid $2600 plus prep ($149) for my 'new' 2009 Italia in January at Maplewood, so your deal sounds comparable.

Expect to drop about 10% more ($260 or so) for state and local tax, title fee, and annual licensing - that's a good round Missouri estimate.

If you jump on this deal, you might want to add some SeaFoam fuel system cleaner. Even if the gas at delivery has been stabilized, there can be some ethanol-precipitate gunk that works itself loose in the carb. This happened to me. Easy fix, but a good idea to use some SeaFoam cleaner in the first couple tanks.

Good luck, and let us know what you end up with.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:13 pm

interesting info, Pete. this is starting to look like an average deal at best. however still a deal, and i would argue in a healthy scooter market ('08 for instance) a BJ is worth full MSRP+fees, easily

i just noticed the OP's post, however. and he states original MSRP is $3599? i believe this is incorrect. it should be $3499. the dealer could be trying to make it look like a bigger discount them it actually is, unless OP made a typo

http://www.genuinescooters.com/scooters ... kJack.html

A Neat Guy · Post by **A Neat Guy** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:31 pm

JHScoot wrote:interesting info, Pete. this is starting to look like an average deal at best. however still a deal, and i would argue in a healthy scooter market ('08 for instance) a BJ is worth full MSRP+fees, easily

i just noticed the OP's post, however. and he states original MSRP is $3599? i believe this is incorrect. it should be $3499. the dealer could be trying to make it look like a bigger discount them it actually is, unless OP made a typo

http://www.genuinescooters.com/scooters ... kJack.html

I did make a typo. My bad.

So, should I try to negotiate below $2,899 (that's what they're asking - I had originally thought it was $2,799)? They tell me that's basically their cost.

What do you all think?

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:20 pm

with an MSRP of $3500 i would say $2900 is most likely their cost, as MSRP represents almost a 20% mark up

i honestly think negotiating would be a moot point, and they would see it as nickel and diming the deal to death. you would not get it much below that, and they would most likely see it as cutting further into any profit they might make. let's say their cost is actually $150 under what they are selling the bike for? no way are they going to want to give you any part of that. and they shouldn't have to, as they should be allowed to make something on the bike, if they are in fact making anything

dealers are clearing stock, they have to. it may very well be at cost and they can always make money on servicing the bike, word of mouth from you, and gaining a new customer.

so no, i myself would not negotiate. take my word for it when i say it's a great scooter to ride and own. a real blast. it has a performance NCY suspension, NCY brakes, and comes with a Prima muffler. it also comes with the stock muffler. heck, you can sell the Prima pipe alone for $100+ if you don't want it on the bike, and it retails for around $200

if you want one for less money you can try to find one used. but those in good condition usually go for $2200 to $2500 from what i have seen, and i don't believe the warranty transfers. buy it new and get the 2 year warranty, roadside assistance, and dealer support. you'll be set

its the funnest small scooter with 10in wheels you can get for the price imo. other scooters are on the market. lots of scooters. but only ONE BJ, and after these are gone, they're gone. easy to work on and maintain and own, and for the most part bulletproof reliable. if you want it and will ride it often, buy it. you won't regret it

easy · Post by **easy** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:26 pm

no i really doubt they will go below that your getting a good deal with what has been offered. The way I understand it the 2 year warranty starts when you purchase it not in 09 but doesnt transfer if you sell it. Thats worth something when you look at kelly blue book

bluebuddygirl · Post by **bluebuddygirl** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:19 pm

Just one addition. Kelly Blue Book is pretty worthless when it comes to scooters or motorcycles. They are worth whatever they are going for, and this sounds like a great deal. As gas prices keep increasing and warmer weather approaches, I doubt that price will last.

Plisar · Post by **Plisar** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:25 pm

Plus Kelly doesn't apply to new vehicles. That is a *new* vehicle. There were no 2010 or 2011 models.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:38 pm

Just a general suggestion if you're looking for "a better deal" than what the dealer has offered: Instead of asking them to take less, ask them to include more.

For example, to lower the price by $100 they would have to give up $100 profit, but to include a $100 accessory would probably only cost them about $50 off their bottom line. Likewise, asking them to include some services in the price they've quoted (e.g. derestricting a 50cc, so-many free oil changes for a 4T) may not cost them anything except their time, which doesn't come off the shop's bottom line.

Chilly · Post by **Chilly** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:05 pm

Sounds like a good deal to me, have them throw in a free rack and/or free 300 mile tune up. You'll love that thing.

paikkylee · Post by **paikkylee** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:40 pm

From my experience, Kelly Blue Book is really a guide that helps get a vehicle financed and not a great guide for actual vehicle values, although I've never used it for anything with less than 2 wheels. They've got dealers best interest in mind when they put their values out there (for negotiations and for helping make sure you're values are Ok when you go for financing). This doesn't help on your Blackjack decision though.

AtlBuddy · Post by **AtlBuddy** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:41 pm

You mean like a unicycle? I was wondering what mine was worth. I'll have look it up.