Blackjack and Pamplona at dealership

Raiderfn31 · Post by **Raiderfn31** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:16 pm

Found a BlackJack at a dealership! Any suggestions on how to haggle with them? (its been on the floor for awhile and they have a large inventory) Also have a Pamplona, which I love the color scheme on. Just a little amped up here since I havent been able to find any 150cc internationals or Blackjacks. HEEEHEEEE!!!!!!!!

cheez37 · Post by **cheez37** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:28 pm

In many cases, scooters have very low profit margins for scooter shops, so they not move on the price. If they won't budge, ask for free oil changes or have then throw in some accessories, like racks, topcase, etc.

Good luck on getting one. I would go for the Black Jack. The added front fork, rear shock and pipe make it worth the price upgrade over the international to me.

Raiderfn31 · Post by **Raiderfn31** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:11 pm

The Blackjack is my dream scoot, so Im with you on that. But the Pamplona since it has the 150cc will give me more "uphill" sustain that the 125cc so Ill be ecstatic with that one also.(I see you have one!) Love the color more than any of the other internationals......they have the other 2 internationals also btw.

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:12 pm

You do realize that the BlackJack is a 150cc scooter with some extras? Or is the other scooter a black 125cc Buddy?

Raiderfn31 · Post by **Raiderfn31** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:20 pm

I do realize the NYC upgrade on the Blackjack. Better brakes, better suspension, comes with prima pipe....Im shooting for that. And trying to get a few services(or one) for free was a nice suggestion! And yes I know the Blackjack is 150cc.....I was making the comparison because I was planning on getting a Buddy125.

Lil Buddy · Post by **Lil Buddy** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:55 am

See the "is it okay to haggle...." thread: viewtopic.php?p=137483#137476

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:02 am

Raiderfn31 wrote:Found a BlackJack at a dealership! Any suggestions on how to haggle with them? (its been on the floor for awhile and they have a large inventory) Also have a Pamplona, which I love the color scheme on. Just a little amped up here since I havent been able to find any 150cc internationals or Blackjacks. HEEEHEEEE!!!!!!!!

My standard advice for negotiating a purchase is not to try to talk them down in price, but to talk them up in what they include. Adding a $100 accessory to the package probably only costs them $50 out-of-pocket, compared to dropping the price by $100 which costs them $100, so they should be less reluctant to take that route. Services give them even more room for haggling; including X future oil changes, or delivery to your house, etc. would cost them even less compared to the value of them to you.

Raiderfn31 · Post by **Raiderfn31** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:29 am

TVB wrote:
Raiderfn31 wrote:Found a BlackJack at a dealership! Any suggestions on how to haggle with them? (its been on the floor for awhile and they have a large inventory) Also have a Pamplona, which I love the color scheme on. Just a little amped up here since I havent been able to find any 150cc internationals or Blackjacks. HEEEHEEEE!!!!!!!!
My standard advice for negotiating a purchase is not to try to talk them down in price, but to talk them up in what they include. Adding a $100 accessory to the package probably only costs them $50 out-of-pocket, compared to dropping the price by $100 which costs them $100, so they should be less reluctant to take that route. Services give them even more room for haggling; including X future oil changes, or delivery to your house, etc. would cost them even less compared to the value of them to you.

That is very sound advice....especially when I walk into a dealership with all the cash....I gotta pay close to the guy trying to make a profit....if you sell me a scoot and you service it right...return phonecalls..Im cool....I gotta line on a BlackJack...it is mine....very nice

Tam Tam · Post by **Tam Tam** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:51 pm

get the Blackjack! I was all set to get a St.Tropez, till I test rode the Blackjack and thought Holy *#@$!!! This thing is loud and fast, and black and red and sharp looking...the Internationals are sharp, but holy cow, the Blackjack is just supercool.

Raiderfn31 · Post by **Raiderfn31** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:14 pm

I just talked to the dealer....If the numbers are right Ill put enough down to hold it....Ill have the rest in a week or two....BLACKJACK BABY!

Mtlgrlie · Post by **Mtlgrlie** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:22 pm

I got mine at the beginning of April for 3000 out the door....and I looked at both, but when I sat on the blackjack....it was that or nothing!

I just went for my first real ride yesterday with my scooter neighbor...he has a 650cc. All I can say is WOW.

And I absolutely love the pipe.....

AtlBuddy · Post by **AtlBuddy** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:23 pm

A dealer here in Atlanta has two Black Jacks in case that deal doesn't work out. Good luck.

Raiderfn31 · Post by **Raiderfn31** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:33 pm

Hopefully Ill rent a van and pick it up 20 minutes away

rsrider · Post by **rsrider** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:26 pm

I went to the kawasaki dealership in Santa Barbara yesterday. They sell buddies, and there was a Black Jack on the floor. Problem is, they have a $500 shipping fee (bogus) and a $250 setup fee (absurd) on it. The only shipping fee there is on motorcycles or scooters if they store their inventory off site and they have to pay someone to go get and bring it to their shop, easily less than $100. And to setup a bike should take less than a half hour, again easily under $100.

It doesn't matter how they add the numbers up the only number that matters is the OTD number. Tell them you'll pay whatever set amount you're willing to pay, and then let them figure the rest out. And if the last number isn't the number you gave them, walk.

OTOH: I did pick up a rear rack and top case (the one that I wanted) for about the same price as I was going to get it through the internet. Damn sales tax in SB county is vicious.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:58 pm

rsrider wrote:Problem is, they have a $500 shipping fee (bogus) and a $250 setup fee (absurd) on it. The only shipping fee there is on motorcycles or scooters if they store their inventory off site and they have to pay someone to go get and bring it to their shop, easily less than $100. And to setup a bike should take less than a half hour, again easily under $100. It doesn't matter how they add the numbers up the only number that matters is the OTD number.

Well, regardless of what anyone thinks is fair, shipping (from the importers warehouse, not from local storage) and set-up are actual costs to the dealer. With Buddys that shipping is normally from Chicago to your local dealer. The scooter is partially disassembled in a crate, The dealer does final assembly, checkout, and adjustments. Some do a better job than others. Do some dealers pad these added costs? Possibly. Compare one dealer to another if you are sceptical. As you say, OTD is really what matters in the final result. And that typically includes sales tax and registration as well.

ScootShannon · Post by **ScootShannon** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:16 pm

I just got a new Blackjack out the door for $2600. I didn't even try to haggle, that was way leas then I walked in there expecting to pay. Got them to give me a discount on rear rack, that was the only haggling I did.

jprestonian · Post by **jprestonian** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:15 pm

rsrider wrote:The only shipping fee there is on motorcycles or scooters if they store their inventory off site and they have to pay someone to go get and bring it to their shop, easily less than $100. And to setup a bike should take less than a half hour, again easily under $100.

As Dooglas points out, that's not so at all. In the quantities my dealer gets them, shipping from Chicago to Nashville on a Buddy is about $260/each, and prep time is typically 1-1.5 hrs. on each new Buddy (as much as 3 hrs. on a Stella, depending on accessories chosen). That said, our shop charges only the actual shipping cost and a flat $100 prep fee.
.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:32 pm

scooter prices seem all over the place from region to region and dealer to dealer. mostly it seems dealer to dealer.

i don't think their is much haggle room. lots of times the discounts are apparent, or just make a low(er) off and see what happens. i just know in 2011....2009 scooters go at discounts, and thats what many of these so called "new" scooters are. so its a bit of a buyers market there, as dealers make room for new stock and clear old from warehouses

at least thats what it seems to me. i know crap about the scooter business

but by coming online and seeing what some dealers sell for here and there, you can get an idea of what another might do, or what is possible

"haggle?" nah. just figure out how much you want to pay and make an offer. a low(er) one. but be ready to pay it! thats your price. if they say they can't, they most likely can't. if they offer you something that is still attractive, take it. if not, tell them to call you if they want to sell it and maybe a deal can be worked out

mostly remember to keep it simple. i mean its really a low cost item in the bigger scheme of things. so you aren't going to save a whole lot this way or that

but $2,600OTD for a Blackjack? that is GREAT!. but you can most likely not expect the same

TCaruso · Post by **TCaruso** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:29 pm

JHScoot wrote:scooter prices seem all over the place from region to region and dealer to dealer. mostly it seems dealer to dealer.

but $2,600OTD for a Blackjack? that is GREAT!. but you can most likely not expect the same

Couldn't agree more. I'm in NJ and about to pay more than $3800 out the door for a new BJ. Granted I'm getting a rear rack and exhaust added on. In addition I'm paying over $400 in taxes, title, registration, etc...

I'm wondering when NJ will begin charging and taxing the air we breath. But that's another subject for another forum.

rsrider · Post by **rsrider** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:01 am

jprestonian wrote:
rsrider wrote:The only shipping fee there is on motorcycles or scooters if they store their inventory off site and they have to pay someone to go get and bring it to their shop, easily less than $100. And to setup a bike should take less than a half hour, again easily under $100.
As Dooglas points out, that's not so at all. In the quantities my dealer gets them, shipping from Chicago to Nashville on a Buddy is about $260/each, and prep time is typically 1-1.5 hrs. on each new Buddy (as much as 3 hrs. on a Stella, depending on accessories chosen). That said, our shop charges only the actual shipping cost and a flat $100 prep fee.
.

Whatever. When I see a shop gouging on the shipping and set up fees, I just make sure if I do want to buy the OTD is what I feel is what the bike is worth. I've walked out of many a dealership because they start adding bogus charges, and that goes for car dealerships as well as MC's. One guy was chasing us as we were driving off the lot.

We agreed on a price and then when we got the bill of sale there was all these freaking add on charges. Seriously, I'm never buying another new vehicle again. I'm tired of taking the financial hit and dealing with sales people. The process has become so excruciating I'd rather just avoid it altogether.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:38 am

rsrider wrote:
jprestonian wrote:
rsrider wrote:The only shipping fee there is on motorcycles or scooters if they store their inventory off site and they have to pay someone to go get and bring it to their shop, easily less than $100. And to setup a bike should take less than a half hour, again easily under $100.
As Dooglas points out, that's not so at all. In the quantities my dealer gets them, shipping from Chicago to Nashville on a Buddy is about $260/each, and prep time is typically 1-1.5 hrs. on each new Buddy (as much as 3 hrs. on a Stella, depending on accessories chosen). That said, our shop charges only the actual shipping cost and a flat $100 prep fee.
.
Whatever. When I see a shop gouging on the shipping and set up fees, I just make sure if I do want to buy the OTD is what I feel is what the bike is worth. I've walked out of many a dealership because they start adding bogus charges, and that goes for car dealerships as well as MC's. One guy was chasing us as we were driving off the lot. We agreed on a price and then when we got the bill of sale there was all these freaking add on charges. Seriously, I'm never buying another new vehicle again. I'm tired of taking the financial hit and dealing with sales people. The process has become so excruciating I'd rather just avoid it altogether.

i think a consumer knows when they are being had, hopefully. that is why scooter only shops are so nice. compare the mark-up at a place like jprestonian works at or NoHo Scooters out here in L.A., to the $1000 mark up's you will find at powersport dealerships. and they make you feel like you need to pay it at the powersport places. or you're left wondering if its fair, or if you need to haggle? a $1000 mark up on a $2000 item? hmm....

i will skip the gory details but a $4200 Yamaha Vino and $3,000 Kymco Agility 125 doesn't seem right when compared to the lower prices of the scooter shops, and dealing with the owners face to face. i even got the "it didn't get here for free all the way from Taiwan" speech

my scooter came from China :/

so a scooter only shop where you can walk in and see a variety of product, ask about specials, used scoots, discounts, incentives, or just to say "this is how much i have, call me if you get something in," is always nice to have around

thats why i like NoHo so much. its pretty much assured if you have some money in your pocket you'll find a good scooter there that suits your needs. and the prices are reasonable to begin with, including the clearly marked freight and set up charges. a barely used 'Pamp for $2100? thats a good price on its face. and buying it from the dealer means you establish a dealer / client relationship for service and parts, and what not

but not everyone is lucky enough to have a scooter shop nearby to buy from. so its powersports shops or the dreaded interent scooter

Raiderfn31 · Post by **Raiderfn31** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:09 pm

TCaruso wrote:
JHScoot wrote:scooter prices seem all over the place from region to region and dealer to dealer. mostly it seems dealer to dealer.

but $2,600OTD for a Blackjack? that is GREAT!. but you can most likely not expect the same
Couldn't agree more. I'm in NJ and about to pay more than $3800 out the door for a new BJ. Granted I'm getting a rear rack and exhaust added on. In addition I'm paying over $400 in taxes, title, registration, etc...

I'm wondering when NJ will begin charging and taxing the air we breath. But that's another subject for another forum.

Need to start charging for every stupid comment

jprestonian · Post by **jprestonian** » Sun May 01, 2011 12:49 am

rsrider wrote: Whatever. When I see a shop gouging on the shipping and set up fees, I just make sure if I do want to buy the OTD is what I feel is what the bike is worth. I've walked out of many a dealership because they start adding bogus charges, and that goes for car dealerships as well as MC's. One guy was chasing us as we were driving off the lot. :lol: We agreed on a price and then when we got the bill of sale there was all these freaking add on charges. Seriously, I'm never buying another new vehicle again. I'm tired of taking the financial hit and dealing with sales people. The process has become so excruciating I'd rather just avoid it altogether.

Well, you wouldn't be the first the feel that way. What we do is give the "drive off the lot" price. including tax and drive-out tag, and if you don't like it, there's a Genuine dealer in Chattanooga (whom we like very much, and who charges the same prices we do). :)
.

gtlover · Post by **gtlover** » Tue May 03, 2011 12:16 pm

We just got our Blackjack last weekend, dealer marked it down $600 off list price because it's a 2009 model. Also saved a few $ by installing the pipe myself.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Tue May 03, 2011 4:12 pm

For what it's worth, the dealer where I go for service here in W. Michigan has a 2009 BJ sticker-priced at $2K. That's probably before fees, but still a steal. I noticed it as I was leaving yesterday, along with several other Buddies (St Tropez, pinky, I forget what else) and a bunch of other scooters, in the next building over. The ones I saw the prices on looked pretty cheap. They aren't a Genuine dealer, but they used to have another dealership out by the Lakeshore that was, so I'm guessing these are the leftover inventory from there, which they're clearing out through this location. So if anyone in Michigan or northern Indiana is looking for a good price on a Buddy (or Vespa, etc), Fox Yamaha in Grand Rapids would be a place to look.

Modern Buddy

Blackjack and Pamplona at dealership

Blackjack and Pamplona at dealership

Re: Blackjack and Pamplona at dealership

Re: Blackjack and Pamplona at dealership

subjectively speaking