Stripped oil drain plug head :(

Post by **jmazza** » Tue May 10, 2011 1:40 pm

It's always the routine things.

After getting my scooter back from having a new starter installed I was all set to do a simple oil change. I'd recently purchased the magnetic drain plug set from Scooterworks and was looking forward to a simple 30-60 minute job on a beautiful Monday evening.

Got the gear oil all changed and the new magnetic plug installed. Super easy, just as it ought to be.

That's where it got fun. When I tried to remove the engine oil drain plug it would not budge. Not with a socket, not with an open or closed wrench. Not on a plane not on a train. Great. My dealer was the last one to change the oil, I guess they don't know their own strength.

Eventually the head started to round off, you know the story. Feel the socket slip. Curse. Walk away for a minute. Try again. Socket slip. Curse. Walk away and get a beer. Try again. Check ModBud for any golden tips. Move on to vice grips. Grind the head down to an oddly-shaped mess. Curse. Try bigger vice grips.

Eventually I drained the oil using the other drain plug on the left side of the case (that was something I didn't even know about until reading it here!) and did the change. The main plug is still there, not budging and with a pretty ground up head. At this point I'll probably deal with it next oil change but other than vice grips or a small pipe wrench (which I don't have- I did try channel locks of various sizes though), are there any other tips for getting this thing unstuck and out when I next need to?

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Tue May 10, 2011 1:49 pm

Maybe a few seconds of blowtorch? Heat usually eases the really stubborn bolts.

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Tue May 10, 2011 2:56 pm

or run the engine to warm it up and try?

CWO4GUNNER · Post by **CWO4GUNNER** » Tue May 10, 2011 3:18 pm

Anytime a paid installer does something like that, one needs to stop and take it right back and ask them to solve the problem they created before you make a mess of it. I once had a tire installer impact the bolts so tight on my RV tire rims (always check as soon as I got home) that even with a 4ft barker bar they would not budge. Installers do these things to make you come back to them for service. The key is to check there work and take it right back and have them fix it.

Of course now that I know and you know, its far better to ask them before hand to PLEASE NOT over-tighten the work with high impact settings as you will need to do your own maintenance as well, usually works.

If you have a simple 1/4 or 1/2 drive electric drill guns they do sell impact adapters to remove these stubborn bolts, and also manual impact drivers that only require blows from a heavy hammer.

As far as the fix goes, now that its a mess you'll have to try and deal with it. You can heat it but run the risk of damaging the case metal strength from the red-hot heat since its an engine and not an inert object like a rim. Personally I would drill it out in the center with a small drill and progressively work my way up to larger drill size until almost to the threads. Then with a saw cut into the thread section at 1 point and with needle nose pliers peel away the threaded portion, fixed.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Tue May 10, 2011 8:30 pm

Is there enough metal left on the head of the drain plug (the part a socket would go on) to drill an 1/8" or bigger hole all the way though? You'll be drilling the hole the width of the plug, not the length. In other words, not into the crankcase. If so, then you can insert a steel rod of appropriate diameter through the hole to loosen/unscrew the plug. I'd warm-up the engine first to make it a bit easier.

If this is not possible, maybe cutting a slot across the head of the plug so you can use a large flat blade screwdriver to loosen the plug. To get enough torque, you might have to drill a hole through the handle of the screwdriver to insert a steel rod (or a phillips screwdriver) or if the shaft of the driver is square, an adjustable wrench.

Hope that made sense.

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Tue May 10, 2011 11:05 pm

Just went through this. The bolt part broke off the main head so I could at least drain the oil (and then not ride the scoot until I got a replacement plug). It took about 45 minutes of chipping away at it to finally get it to turn.

If you look at the third pic, it may help you figure out a way to chip at yours? Or you could chisel a slot in the head and use that for leverage? I wish I had known this was a weak spot or I would have changed the plug out from the PGO one during the first oil change. I thought it was this year's particularly crap winter that did mine in.
http://scootcommute.wordpress.com/2011/ ... ken-buddy/

I was just pissed off because, like you, this is supposed to be a quick job. And I felt really bad for the boyfriend as he was trying to be nice. Poor me, had to ride something else for two days

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Tue May 10, 2011 11:52 pm

i did the same thing to my Agility. the drain cover was "factory tight" and the threads broke. luckily for me the threads had loosened enough that they spun easily out of the hole

what siobahn posted above is not the drain plug / bolt, exactly. its the "cover" for the oil screen. which is somewhat redundant on some scooters like the Buddy, which also has an oil filter

i recommend using the drain bolt on the side of the pan / engine. its a regular bolt and not fragile like the one on the side. that is actually the conventional way of doing it, but many use (and break) the screen cover. the screen on the Buddy only needs to be checked occasionally. even on my Agility its every 2500 miles and it has no filter. nothing is ever in the screen for most owners, and with your magnetic plugs even less so

i have taken it off Buddy once, no problem. but i was careful not to "force it" off, having learned my lesson. as you can see its thin, soft metal. reminds me of a soda bottle cap with some threads

anyway i put a new one back on my Agility and there it has stayed through two oil changes. it has a weird design imo. easy to break. i know i will use it again just to check the screen, and i check it for tightness every couple weeks. but otherwise i use the side bolt

and sure all the oil comes out the side. just make sure its warm. you can also tilt the scooter (as if on the kickstand) to make sure it all pours out

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Wed May 11, 2011 12:11 am

Well, there's always the poor man's impact driver.

While the picture's not exact, it sort of gives the general idea:

- Chisel or cut a notch into the side of the bolt head from its perimeter towards the center (direction A).

- Place a blunt screwdriver on a tangent to the bolt head and against the notch (direction B), so that when struck it will act against the bolt head in a counterclockwise direction.

- Keep tapping the screwdriver with a hammer until the bolt breaks free and starts to turn. (Or, if you're like me, attack it savagely with a 3 pound drilling hammer until you either liquify your thumb or embed the screwdriver into the oil pan or some wayward bodily appendage.)

- Complete the removal of the bolt with a suitable wrench.

- Finish the job by cursing the manufacturer, their family, and all of their pets. Then spit and pee on the bolt, and flip it into your neighbor's grass as a blade-ruining reminder that he really shouldn't be mowing the lawn at 6:30 on a Saturday morning.

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Wed May 11, 2011 12:23 am

charlie55 wrote:...

- Finish the job by cursing the manufacturer, their family, and all of their pets. Then spit and pee on the bolt, and flip it into your neighbor's grass as a blade-ruining reminder that he really shouldn't be mowing the lawn at 6:30 on a Saturday morning.

Um, yeah, that's exactly what he did! Although in our case it was throwing it in the street for a car blaring *thump thump* to run over and puncture a tire.

But seriously, charlie's suggestion is basically what the b/f did. I heard all sorts of hammering noises as I continued weeding and mulching. I think it was a two cider job.

CWO4GUNNER · Post by **CWO4GUNNER** » Wed May 11, 2011 1:56 am

Pretty much the same concept as an impact impact device. The key is to ID a stubborn bolt before you tear it up forcing a wrench with one forced push. You can even just use a rubber mallet on the wrench. In fact I always take a rubber mallet with me to loosen my auto out drain bold becasue its much easier on the joints of your hands as you get older. A few taps with either a mallet or dead blow hammer is doing that exact same fix before it gets damaged. The key is to ID the problem early through feel or just anticipate and use the impact method anyway. They even make cheap impact screw drivers that prevent you from stripping out your Phillips head screws on your case to change a variator saving you the trouble of replacing or working with damaged Phillip head screws. A little investment in the right tool like the one below can save allot of aggravation later.
[/url]http://www.jpcycles.com/product/150-341 ... -341_A.jpg[/img][/url]

Post by **jmazza** » Wed May 11, 2011 4:15 am

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone...some good ideas I wouldn't have thought of for sure. Siobhan those pictures of your sheared plug are crazy and definitely helpful. The idea of drilling through the side of the plug head or chiseling a notch into the side to knock it loose is pure genius as far as my new-to-wrenching mind goes.

Since the oil is changed already, now I just have to decide if I want to try to get the plug out now and change the oil again or just wait for another 2k miles when I do another change!

I'll keep you posted as to what works.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed May 11, 2011 1:31 pm

jmazza wrote:Thanks for all the suggestions everyone...some good ideas I wouldn't have thought of for sure. Siobhan those pictures of your sheared plug are crazy and definitely helpful. The idea of drilling through the side of the plug head or chiseling a notch into the side to knock it loose is pure genius as far as my new-to-wrenching mind goes.

Since the oil is changed already, now I just have to decide if I want to try to get the plug out now and change the oil again or just wait for another 2k miles when I do another change!

I'll keep you posted as to what works.

Let me know if you want to bring it over to Casa Raton. We can put it on the lift to make the job much easier. don't sweat it, we have the technology...we have the tools!

toycoma98 · Post by **toycoma98** » Wed May 11, 2011 7:40 pm

Just did a quick read through this thread. Have you tried a small pipe wrench or monkey wrench?

Never use a vice grip for tightening or loosening, they are made to grip or hold something in place, not turn.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Wed May 11, 2011 10:07 pm

it should also be noted the "head" of the drain / screen cover isn't really connected to a bolt, so to speak. its just there to have something for the wrench to grip. easily broken if hit, tapped, or twisted too hard if giving resistance