Back Rack FAILURE

sotied · Post by **sotied** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:02 pm

So, I'm riding down the road (as we used to say in mountain biking JRA - just riding along) and I hear this metalic 'clang, ping, cling, clang' of something metal behind me.

I ascribe the sound to a piece of somebody's muffler or a really big retainer that some kid threw out of a school bus window.

BUT NO! It was - as I found out when I parked in the garage at my client's office - the cross member to the back rack on my buddy.

I put a top case on the scoot last year and have been carrying my Macbook and accessories in there instead of wearing them on my back. Turns out that the stress and bouncing of the bag caused the crossbar (the flat part) to break at both welds.

That was the clanging I heard. And better still (or worse), the allen bolts were almost all the way loose where they attach to the buddy right behind the seat. I say 'better' because they didn't come loose and my $1400 laptop and stuff was safe.

Needless to say, I rode home with the laptop bag on my back.

So....

1 - should I replace the rack or find a new solution for carrying medium weight stuff?

2 - Is one year of use acceptable (although I got the rack when I bought the scoot, just didn't use it for anything until last year)?

3 - Has anyone jerry rigged a solution that keeps the rack and topcase from bouncing so much that the connectors come loose?

Thanks!

sotied · Post by **sotied** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:08 pm

Here's the photo of where the crossbeam used to be...

http://jeffcutler.posterous.com/scooter-rack-fail

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:12 pm

MY first one did the same thing and lasted about a year.

And it looked like this. The second has now lasted 2 years.

Howard

sotied · Post by **sotied** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:17 pm

So is the solution to put something in that area that is mushy but firm so it can support the bouncing of the case and rack, but not fail?

Or do I budget $75 a year to keep replacing the back rack?

OR do I find a welder who could put a much thicker crossbeam there?

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:37 pm

Sorry about your rack. You mentioned the mounting screws that go into the body were loose. If that is the case it would have put additional stress on the cross bar. Plus it looks like you have one of the heavier Givi cases on there. The racks are only rated to 15lbs if I recall correctly and you have to take the weight of your case into consideration. Could be a combination of all those factors that led to the break. That said, there was an old design of rear rack that was prone to breaking. I don't know if yours is/was one of those as I think they went away a couple of years ago.

One thing I did when installing my rack was to put this rubber gasket material in the places where metal meets metal. So inbetween the rack and the top case assembly. It is about 1/8" thick and can be bought in sheets at your local hardware. I cut it to the sizes I needed and put strips of it basically all over the top of the rack. It enabled me to get a more snug connection between the rack and the mounting plate of the topcase. It helps absorb vibration and so things stay tight (and quiet). That might help.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:41 pm

I'm fairly sure the racks are rated at 11lb including the weight of the topcase. When my Buddy 50 was my only scoot I had a Givi 45L topcase on there and knew that I was exceeding the weight limit of the rack, sometimes by 100%. These racks really are not meant for heavy stuff, more like a topcase to put your gear in when you park, or some fairly light groceries. I carried my laptop back there a few times but returned to just carrying it in a backpack as thats much safer. If your going to continue to carry expensive electronic on the rack then I would go to a welder and see if they can't do some serious reenforcement to a new rack. The two bolts near the seat will still be a weak point but I would imagine it'd be good enough for a laptop and some light paperwork.

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:22 pm

those silver racks are problematic-mine broke also, although I have to be honest and say I sometimes carry plenty of weight. I have the black one now, which has a much better design. So far so good.

rsrider · Post by **rsrider** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:36 pm

peabody99 wrote:those silver racks are problematic-mine broke also, although I have to be honest and say I sometimes carry plenty of weight. I have the black one now, which has a much better design. So far so good.

wasn't his a black one? I'm old, my eyes betray me......

I was thinking when I installed the rack (black) and top box (Genuine-green) that I wasn't going to overload the thing cause it just looked fragile. That's why I got the big a$$ TimBuk2 bag.

BTW: A welding shop should be able to put a new bar on for way less than a replacement rack and IT WILL BE more durable than the original. Just make sure you drill the mounting hole right.

also, when you put the mounting bolts on use some BLUE loc-tite on the the treads.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:02 am

Looking at the design of that rack from an engineering standpoint, I'd say it is very poorly designed and will always fail in the same way if any significant weight is placed on it. The key problem is that they used flat stock going straight across from the rack to it's mounting point on the scooter. When you're riding around with weight on the rack, those flat bracket pieces will constantly flex up and down due to vibration and eventually, the welds will break resulting in the failure. What they should have done is to triangulate the brace by welding (using either flat or round stock) from the mounting point of the scooter to the upper hoop right where the hoop bends downward. You could probably have a welding shop make that modification for you, but the chrome in the welded areas will be toast.

bluebuddygirl · Post by **bluebuddygirl** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:08 am

I was just thinking how lucky I had been that my rack has lasted for 3 years, especially considering how much stuff I have had on it and how many times it has been overloaded, and today it snapped. Oh well, I have a welder and I know how to use it.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:13 am

Speaking from an outside perspective (as the guy still waiting on his Buddy), it seems like for a solo rider, it may just be safer to rock the cowl crashbars and a bungee across the pillion seat for stuff that doesn't need a top case. It does seem a bit odd that the main mounting point requires removal of most of the steel from the brace it bolts to

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:01 am

neotrotsky wrote:it may just be safer to rock the cowl crashbars and a bungee across the pillion seat for stuff that doesn't need a top case.

That's how I used to mount large or heavy stuff on the scoot. Works very well & I never had to worry about the weight issue.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:06 am

Well, considering that I'm not a fan of top-cases anyway, this may highlight what accessories I may or may not need. Since this is a commuter bike for school (never thought I'd be saying that at 32), it really depends on how much crap I have to haul. Thankfully, these days a laptop and a Kindle has replaced most of the physical textbooks I'd have to carry

CWO4GUNNER · Post by **CWO4GUNNER** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:16 pm

You just need to cut and remove the grab-bar which prevents proper load placement and center of gravity over the rack. I dont have the years history yet but it was plain to see that the rack could not support a trunk that was off balance and leveraging the support brackets. Besides the grab-bar is not used if the trunk is placed against it anyway and provides no structural support as the intersecting bar beneath that supports the grab-bar is continuous and solid not junctioned. My rack grab-bar was cut off and ground flush using a Dremel tool and allowed my full size motorcycle trunk to be set back 4 additional inches placing the load and weight vertically over rack supports rather then out-rigged causing all those lateral forces, of course the rack would crack otherwise. Sorry not pics of the process but I did takes pics of the finished results. Please excuse the untrimmed mounting bolts for the Givi-clone mounting plate which are no longer visible and now look professional. Note the placement of the trunk mounting plate properly centered over the rack allowing proper distribution of the load on top of not leveraging the rack.

Now look at that oversize trunk and windscreen and statement it makes and tel me why-why! it did not make the calendar competition...

Dean F · Post by **Dean F** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:47 pm

I put this 3/8 inch thick stainless steel bar underneath the cross member with a thin piece of rubber in between (to stop rattling). I have not had any problems for several years since it first broke(note weld marks where it broke).

CWO4GUNNER · Post by **CWO4GUNNER** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:58 pm

There you go again with the quick & clever resources and solutions, Im going to have to add that fix.

Are you sure that avatar is not your real picture and you have a robot brain.

sotied · Post by **sotied** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:50 pm

Thanks everyone. Gonna put the case, broken rack and me on the scooter and ride to the local machine shop. I'll have them do something like remove the grab bar and set up a crossmember with vibration absorption.

Guess I'll have to bookmark this post and bring my iPhone with me too.

EBee · Post by **EBee** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:19 pm

Mine just broke yesterday after using a topcase on it for a week.

I've had it since 2006 so it must be one of the old ones. Is the new one much better? or is there an aftermarket version? I really NEED a topcase to commute.

It's a black one, BTW.

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:51 pm

well, it's been about 4 and 3/4 years since I installed the rear rack on my Buddy, and the crossbar finally broke off (and is lying in the street somewhere between my house and my place of employment). Not bad considering it has valiantly handled my pothole-and-fiber-optic-cable-hump-infested commute while holding a variety of milkcrates, crammed with eBay packages, groceries, scooter and motorcycle parts, you name it.

This is the fix the b/f came up with this weekend as I have to go shopping for T-day vittles tomorrow. Just gotta paint it.

Hmmm, it's dark in the garage!