500 mi service...crazy expensive..

bigdaddybud · Post by **bigdaddybud** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:46 pm

so let me ask you guys a question? i just took my blackjack in for its 500 mi service. the price when all said and done was 168.00. now if im correct, they change the oil, and the sparkplug...not sure why it needs a new plug after only 500 mi. but, they charged me for the plug...charged me a 8 dollar chemical handling fee.. and 150.00 for the first service on my scoot..all that was done was an oil change and the plug was replaced. they said they went through and tightened down all the bolts. and checked all my lights and signals and the horn...is it me? or is this super crazy expensive...an oil change by itself costs 50 bucks from this shop...i asked them if they could rinse the scooter off because i had to drive home in the rain the other day and it was kinda dirty..they said that would be another 36 for a detail...if this is truly how most scooter shops are i am really turned off by them. i will not go back to this shop ever again.. i gave them another chance and it looks like they took me for a ride again...and not in a good way...i looked around at all the exposed bolts...or parts that might need to be tightened down and didnt notice any sign that a wrench had touched any of them...so did they really tighten things down? or was it all bs...kind of steamed right now...

desmolicious · Post by **desmolicious** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:51 pm

Heads up - check your tyre pressures to make sure they have been set correctly. And your oil level. It should not be over filled (or under filled).

That will give you an idea...

Chilly · Post by **Chilly** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:51 pm

They say the first tune up is very important(one of the reasons I bought used, to avoid this), not sure if its worth $160? $50 oil change tells me everything I need to know about them though, don't go back.

desmolicious · Post by **desmolicious** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:54 pm

Chilly wrote: $50 oil change tells me everything I need to know about them though, don't go back.

Here's the thing, how much do you think an oil and filter change should cost?

Labour rates are anything from $70-$100/hr depending on location.
So half an hour to change the oil and filter, plus cost of oil/filter/disposal fees.

It's a business, not a charity. If you have the time and inclination, all this could be done at home.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:01 pm

Here's a Genuine video showing what is done on the 500mi service. Also another thread with more info. It is considerably more than just an oil change and quick tidy-up. Definitely a very important service that can effect the rest of your scooters life.

Alb brajn · Post by **Alb brajn** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:02 pm

Mine was $93 and my wife is still mad about it. I get to do my own oil changes from now on.

smithrw · Post by **smithrw** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:03 pm

It would sure be worth the time and effort to try learning to do it yourself. I think you'd find out it's not that difficult and for me actually fun. Of course now that I'm 65 I'm finding out that lots of things are more fun than they used to be.

bigdaddybud · Post by **bigdaddybud** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:03 pm

fifty dollars is not a good deal...at all for a scooter....i change the oil in my car..69.99 for 5 quarts of full synthetic..thats only 20 bucks less...and i do it every 3000 mi. not every 1500...are you guys saying that this thing is really going to cost me more to upkeep than my car? im definately gonna learn how to maintain this thing myself...because if this is the norm, its not fair. i am so stemaed that i am seriously thinking about opening a scooter shop to show them what its like to actually take care of your customers...the fact thast after i spent almost 200$ with them and they wouldnt even rinse off my bike is ridiculous...what happened to customer service..i was going to buy another scooter too...from this shop...but after this...i dont ever want to go back there...

Chilly · Post by **Chilly** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:07 pm

It doesn't take an amatuer(like myself) 30 minutes to do an oil and filter change, maybe 15 minutes. A professional with a proper shop will undoubtably do it much quicker. Filter and oil = $10 tops for the shop. $40 for maybe 10 minutes, that's $240 an hour. Not to shabby, I'm in the wrong business.

moriahskies · Post by **moriahskies** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:08 pm

It just depends on the dealer. My dealer will charge me $75 for the first service, and I know he'll check everything. But the vespa dealer in dallas charges anywhere from $160-300 depending on who you talk to on the phone. If your dealer is charging more than $100, I would find another service center if you can.

desmolicious · Post by **desmolicious** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:08 pm

This is from a local shop for service prices:

http://www.route66modernclassics.com/in ... &Itemid=62

I'm sure people here can chime in on it, one way or another.

cdwise · Post by **cdwise** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:20 pm

I don't get the wash & wax or the "up to .5 gallons of gas" that it says on the Route 66 Scooters price list but then I pay less than $25 for an oil change and not a single service has cost more than $79.

desmolicious · Post by **desmolicious** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:23 pm

cdwise wrote:I don't get the wash & wax or the "up to .5 gallons of gas" that it says on the Route 66 Scooters price list but then I pay less than $25 for an oil change and not a single service has cost more than $79.

So, they never checked the engine valves then?

smithrw · Post by **smithrw** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:26 pm

I actually watched the Genuine service video. One thing I picked up on was the tire pressure they recommend. They say 30 lbs front and rear. My operators manual says 20/22 front and rear. What are most of you going with. I understand rider weight can change the recommend pressure.

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:26 pm

Is this the same shop that:

A) You passed over to get a better price elsewhere?

B) Then took over a week to determine that your carb needed to be cleaned (and only after Genuine poked them in the ribs)?

If so, and in the spirit of Casablanca, all I can say is, "Louie, I think this is not the start of a beautiful friendship."

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:51 pm

If all they did was change the oil, you certainly got rooked. If they did everything they are supposed to at the first service, that was exactly what you wanted and presumably required experience beyond your personal expertise. The $168 charge is higher than I have heard from most others for the first service, but each dealer is different. As I recall, we paid $124 for the first service on our Buddy. The local dealer charges $39 for an oil change with synthetic oil.

bigdaddybud · Post by **bigdaddybud** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:04 am

IT IS THE SAME SHOP... I WAS TRYING TO GIVE THEM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT...AND THIS IS WHAT I GOT AGAIN...THANKS FOR THE PRICE LIST FROM RTE 66... I AM GOING TO PRINT THAT OUT AND BRING IT IN TO THEM...THIS HAS NOT BEEN A GREAT EXPERIENCE.. I BOUGHT THIS SCOOTER TO HAVE AN INEXPENSIVE MODE OF TRANSPORT... AND TO HAVE A LITTLE FUN...SO FAR IT HAS BEEN PRETTY DISAPPOINTING.. ALL I THINK BECAUSE OF THIS SHOP...THE CRAPPY THING IS THAT THE NEXT CLOSEST SHOP IS ANOTHER 25 MILES FURTHER THAN THIS SHOP IS...THATS ALMOST 50 MI. FROM MY HOUSE... BUT ILL BE HONEST...AT THIS POINT...I DONT CARE...I WANT TO FIND SOMEPLACE THAT ACTUALLY CARES ABOUT THEIR CUSTOMERS...BECAUSE FROM WHAT I SEE THIS SHOP DOESNT....

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:23 am

Showing them someone else's price list isn't going to accomplish anything. Even if by some miracle they decide to throw some cash back at you, you're always going to be wondering what's going to happen the next time you bring the scoot in.

Inconvenient as it may be, looks like its time to vote with your feet and go elsewhere. Since you're already past the first maintenance (make sure you save any paperwork they gave you to that effect), I think that the worst you're looking at is regular oil changes for a while. Good opportunity to start acquiring a wrench-u-cation.

ScooterTrash · Post by **ScooterTrash** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:39 am

bigdaddybud wrote: i am so stemaed that i am seriously thinking about opening a scooter shop to show them what its like to actually take care of your customers.

you will go broke and out of business.

There is a lot that goes in to a first check up if done properly.

Oil change with filter, valve check, spark plug and transmission oil change

While I agree they charged too much, they aren't an oil change shop. They don't get a discount on oil and they usually don't have someone working for minimum wage wrenching on it.

Side note - I did the first tune up for free on scooters we sold, only charged for materials
(we went broke and out of business)

bigdaddybud · Post by **bigdaddybud** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:36 am

the kid that serviced my scooter, has said to me in the past. that he pretty much does valve cleanings and oil changes because thats what he knows how to do. after watching that video, i would be totally surprised if they even opened the cvt. i would be very surprised as well if the valves got adjusted properly, if at all. the reason they pulled the carb off in the video was only because they determined it had a clogged jet.so to say it didnt happen to mine would be an understatement...even though i def had some fuel issues to begin with...as this shop duly informed me...and it would have been nice...also the variator...i was talking to the same kid who supposedly serviced my bike, and he didnt even know what a variator and rollers were..so to think that he could have opened up that and cleaned it out like they did in the video would also surprise me. what worries me the most now after watching that video is if that is what genuine asks of the first m1 service of their scooters. then shouldnt there be some sort of certification? cuz i can say with alot of confidence..that i think i got just payed 168 bucks for an oil change and a spark plug..by a kid who told me himself that he only did carb cleanings and oil changes cuz thats all he really knew how to do...that video made me doubt even more if things were done properly....no bueno my friends...no bueno

moriahskies · Post by **moriahskies** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:26 am

@smith

My dealer walked me through everything on my scooter, checking oil, tires, etc. He recommended 30 also, so that's what I go with. He also told me that in the absence of 90 octane, use 89 octane gas. He really knows scooters, so I trust him over the manual.

jprestonian · Post by **jprestonian** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:37 am

Well, don't let me be a stick in the mud, but if you want it done cheap, do it yourself. You obviously value your money more than your time, or you'd already be well on your way to having the whole service manual committed to memory (plus the investment in tools and access to parts, not to mention the rent on the building).

When your closest dealer shuts down, I will brook no whining for your extra 25 miles, btw.
.

jprestonian · Post by **jprestonian** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:56 am

I just don't get it.

I realize that someone really dim might think, comparing retail prices of vehicles, that an oil change on a Buddy ought to cost 15% what it costs on a new Honda Accord, but guess what? Buddy mechanics (who know WTF they are doing, I should say) aren't paid that much less than Honda mechanics. And unlike the Accord, there aren't 600,000 Buddys on U.S. streets, either. Gee, ya think it might cost a little more for an oil change? D'oh!
.

Raiderfn31 · Post by **Raiderfn31** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:30 am

Im getting my first service for free. Love my dealer.

Hwarang · Post by **Hwarang** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:28 pm

It's the same at my shop. They do great work but are STUPID EXPENSIVE. The first time they handed me a $192.00 bill for really simple stuff was also the last time.

Unless it's real wrench work, I'll do it myself from now on.

bigdaddybud · Post by **bigdaddybud** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:59 pm

thanks for the dim comment...all im saying is that the 19 yr old kid that did my work told me himself that he didnt do anything but oil changes and carb cleanings..after watching that video of the 500 mi, service, i am very worried that the only thing that was done was an oil change and a new sparkplug...now if they were a certified mechanic, getting payed close to what a honda mechanic made i wouldnt worry...but some kid getting paid 8.25 an hr. did my work...like i said after watching the video it made me worry even more that every thing was taken care of...and im sorry that im new to this scene and the only thing i have to compare it to is the expereince ive had with cars. i realize that its not the same, but from a customer service standpoint, it should be...this is a new scooter right? and i have to have my shop so the 500 mi service as to not void my warranty right?

LPcreation · Post by **LPcreation** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:05 pm

As a noobie BlackJack owner, I'll have my 1st service coming up relatively soon.

One thing to keep in mind is that if you don't have your periodical services done and documented by a licensed dealer, I BELIEVE your 2 year warranty is voided. Check the warranty agreement but I'm pretty sure I read somethign along those lines. It bummed me out because I like to wrench and would've worked on these things myself but I'll def be going to the dealer for my scheduled services for 2 years.

Just something to consider for the do-it-yourself'ers.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:45 pm

Actually, on the FAQ section of genuinescooters.com, the Big Guy points out that really only the first service is necessary for warranty coverage.

OK, I just checked it again, and I think maybe the language has changed a little bit. I think it used to say that the dealer-first-service was required to maintain warranty coverage, but maybe they couldn't say that legally any more. The owner's manual might have something in there as well.

Anyway, wrench on after the first service. It's a good idea to keep records of the service materials you purchased (dated receipts, etc.) so that if there's ever an issue with honoring a warranty repair, you can show that you did your maintenance on-or-about certain dates, showing a pattern of good scooter husbandry over the two year period.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:47 pm

bigdaddybud wrote:...all im saying is that the 19 yr old kid that did my work told me himself that he didnt do anything but oil changes and carb cleanings..

Actually, this is a fair point. There are scooter dealers and then there are scooter dealers. Some are very professional and have one or more truly experienced scooter mechanics. Others are not well organized, don't know scooters very well, and hire kids for service work that have very limited experience. That's the blunt truth of the scooter business. The rider really has to decide whether the shop has the ability to do the job. A little observation of the service area and a short discussion or two with the mechanic is usually enough to sort out the difference. (sounds like you already have this one sorted out)

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:33 pm

As others have stated, the first service is crucial and the first several are very important. I had the dealer do the service for the duration of the warranty but I had the oil changes done every 2K miles.
I do my own service now every 2K and I only change the filter every-other service (cuz those sukahs cost 10 - 15 bucks). I change the gear oil almost every time since it's a cheap addition.

My scooter is about to change over to 20K miles with no engine-related issues. I aim to keep this as inexpensive as possible.

Alexbv200 · Post by **Alexbv200** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:21 pm

moriahskies wrote:It just depends on the dealer. My dealer will charge me $75 for the first service, and I know he'll check everything. But the vespa dealer in dallas charges anywhere from $160-300 depending on who you talk to on the phone. If your dealer is charging more than $100, I would find another service center if you can.

Ugh...
Once again false information being spread out on the interweb..
Charge is $127 if you want the full service like it is supposed to be done by an authorized Genuine dealer per Genuine's guidelines!!
If you just want a basic service it's $68.

Also your dealer should have let you know that for best performance on your scooter use 93 octane as full synthetic oil is used!

goldscott · Post by **goldscott** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:22 pm

I had my 500 mile service done at Scooterworks Chicago for $170 in May 2010.

Based on what others have quoted, I think I paid too much. But the mechanics there are great, and I assume they did everything they were supposed to do in that service. After all, this is Genuine headquarters.

I have done all my own service since then. I can change my own motor oil and gear oil in under 10 minutes. Most of that is waiting for the oil to drain. Add 2-3 minutes for a filter change, which I do every other oil change.

jprestonian · Post by **jprestonian** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:43 pm

bigdaddybud wrote:and i have to have my shop so the 500 mi service as to not void my warranty right?

Well, that's what Genuine says, but the Magnuson-Moss act says otherwise.
.

jprestonian · Post by **jprestonian** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:47 pm

Alexbv200 wrote:
moriahskies wrote:Also your dealer should have let you know that for best performance on your scooter use 93 octane as full synthetic oil is used!
What's synthetic oil have to do with the octane of the fuel used? AFAIK, 93AKI is pointless in any engine below 10.5:1 compression. It won't hurt, but it certainly won't help, either.
.

smithrw · Post by **smithrw** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:04 pm

Actually in the Genuine f.a.q. it says that they prefer that you have your dealer do the 500 mi. check. If that's not correct please let me know.
Thanks

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:13 pm

biddaddy, did you not get a quote before the work was performed? I never just walk into a shop and say "go at it" without having an idea of what the cost will be. This rule applies to all services to avoid sticker shock or feeling "taken".

On another note, why are people changing oil so often? Changing synthetic after 3k? That's such a waste of time and money and creates excess pollution in "used" oil. Whatever floats your boat but it's not necessary.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:36 pm

Yeah, only as a data point, my Mini Cooper calls for an oil-change interval of 15,000 miles on full synthetic. Now these little single-cylinder scoots are working a lot harder, but the useful point is probably somewhere inbetween.

cdwise · Post by **cdwise** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:27 am

LPcreation wrote:As a noobie BlackJack owner, I'll have my 1st service coming up relatively soon.

One thing to keep in mind is that if you don't have your periodical services done and documented by a licensed dealer, I BELIEVE your 2 year warranty is voided. Check the warranty agreement but I'm pretty sure I read somethign along those lines. It bummed me out because I like to wrench and would've worked on these things myself but I'll def be going to the dealer for my scheduled services for 2 years.

Just something to consider for the do-it-yourself'ers.

Companies put all sorts of things in warranties and contracts that aren't enforcable. Check you state laws on warranty limitations.
Legally all you have to do is prove that service was done though I'd still get the first service done by the dealer.

bigdaddybud · Post by **bigdaddybud** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:53 am

@ siobahn
i did get a quote, and to be honest after watching that video, and seeing what that service entails, im very worried that almost none of that stuff even was taken care of on my scooter. because i know the person they said di the service on my scooter, admitted to me that he is not very knowledgeable ie. oil changes, carb cleanings, so im concerned he doesnt even know what a variator is, let alone how to service it. also the never said they changed the gearbox oil at all...the said they did an oil change, and changed the plug, but nothing about the gearbox at all. if this was the service that was done on my scooter, then i take back what i said about it being expensive, but for what they told me they did, oil change, and new plug, tightened down some bolts, it was definately not worth it...found another shop so thank god i never have to go back to this place ever again...

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:55 am

smithrw wrote:Actually in the Genuine f.a.q. it says that they prefer that you have your dealer do the 500 mi. check. If that's not correct please let me know.
Thanks

It is not only correct, but if you don't you'll void your warrantee.

BuddyLicious · Post by **BuddyLicious** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:50 am

We need undercover volunteers to go in to different Dealers and have the service performed.Wouldn't that be so cool to actually see which Dealers are legit and which not so?

CWO4GUNNER · Post by **CWO4GUNNER** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:08 pm

Skootz Kabootz wrote:Here's a Genuine video showing what is done on the 500mi service. Also another thread with more info. It is considerably more than just an oil change and quick tidy-up. Definitely a very important service that can effect the rest of your scooters life.

Boy allot of dealers must hate to see these type videos posted which sheds light of whats supposed to be done. Although these procedures are very simple for an experienced wrencher no way the dealer can afford to do all those steps completely (like God is watching) for less then $200. There is an old wrenching term used when items are checked off but never actually done, its called gun-decking and I think dealers practice gun-decking it allot. I'm going to contact Genuine and get their permission to do my own scheduled mile maintenance without voiding the warranty.

desmolicious · Post by **desmolicious** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:48 pm

Skootz Kabootz wrote:
smithrw wrote:Actually in the Genuine f.a.q. it says that they prefer that you have your dealer do the 500 mi. check. If that's not correct please let me know.
Thanks
It is not only correct, but if you don't you'll void your warrantee.

That is completely untrue.
The Moss-Magnusson act protects us in the USA. As long as you provide receipts that the service was done (for oil, filters etc) then the warranty is valid.

US Federal law over-rules what some company may write in their owner's manual.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:58 pm

Yeah, I think the Genuine website FAQ used to be a little more explicit about 'requiring' first service by the dealer, but I think they've changed it to where they don't make that demand now. If memory serves me right.

Post by **jmazza** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:17 pm

PeteH wrote:Yeah, I think the Genuine website FAQ used to be a little more explicit about 'requiring' first service by the dealer, but I think they've changed it to where they don't make that demand now. If memory serves me right.

You're correct. I'm not sure it was always in their FAQ because I don't recall that always being on their site. But they definitely used to say that the first service had to be done by a dealer. It's been brought up here tons of times and the Moss-Magnusson act has been invoked equally as often. I really like what they say on their FAQ as it's probably always been their intention "requiring" the first service to be done by a dealer:

GenuineScooters.com FAQ wrote:A: We'd strongly advise you have the scooter maintained by your authorized Genuine dealer. I mean, we really really really really prefer you take it to your dealer.

Let's be totally honest here. The number of problems we see with customer-maintained scooters vastly outnumber the problems we see with dealer maintained scooters. We're talking like a 10:1 ratio or something crazy like that.

Your dealer has special tools that you probably don't have. Your dealer has service manuals. The guys at your dealership do nothing but wrench on scooters every day. The guys at your dealership have cool shop jackets (with embroidered name tags) we'd bet you don't have. We could go on and on.

If you are bound and determined to maintain your own scooter, we ask you to at least do the following...

Have your authorized dealer perform the 500 mile first service. This is the most important service in the life of the scooter and goes way beyond an oil change. The valve clearances are inspected, the cables are adjusted, the brakes are tested, bolts are tightened, the carburetor is tweaked, and so forth.

After that, if you choose to perform some or all of the maintenance, please make sure to purchase a shop manual from your authorized dealer, all special tools, a torque wrench, etc. Then make sure to closely follow the recommended maintenance schedule, read the instructions before you even think about picking up a wrench, and take your time.

If you do all that, chances are you'll be just fine. But if you do something wrong and your motor starts sounding like a 4th of July fireworks display, it ain't warranty...it's all on you.

I don't think it's unreasonable for a small company to not want to honor a warranty when a scooter has been a test case for a driveway wrencher.

I know that if I tried my own valve adjustments or roller/belt change (which I hope to someday especially now that my scooter is out of warranty) and I did a hack job of it I wouldn't expect it to be a warranty fix.

So many of the questions and frustrations we see here all come down to a good dealer vs. a bad one. I had frustrations with my dealer and after two services there I started going elsewhere, even though they offered a free 1st service . I pay what I believe is a higher price now but I really trust the dealer and like and trust the mechanics who work there. Since my scooter is 2 of our family's 6 wheels, I need it to be working, not experimented on.

To the OP, you've been burned twice now; it's definitely time to figure out a better option for getting your service done!

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:36 pm

jmazza wrote:...I know that if I tried my own valve adjustments or roller/belt change (which I hope to someday especially now that my scooter is out of warranty) and I did a hack job of it I wouldn't expect it to be a warranty fix...

I have always been surprised at how many people who would not consider maintaining or repairing their car/truck have no compunction at pulling the head off their Buddy.

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:02 pm

My guess is that a lot of folks have a safety net of another bike or a car to use if they can't get it running again.

I would be more inclined to work on my Buddy than my car too. If I goof, and can't get it working again, I can always trailer it to a shop at a cost of $20 for trailer rental. If I were brazen (read "stupid" in my case

) enough to tear apart my car engine, it would cost significantly more than that to get it towed anywhere....

Of course lots of people are good at mechanics and don't have to worry about a "safety net".

I can do oil changes, spark plugs, and brakes, but not sure I personally would ever be confident enough to do anything "internal" engine related.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:19 pm

Valve adjustment isn't very hard, actually. It just takes a feeler gauge, a wrench, and a screwdriver, or one of those newfangled tools that combines a couple of functions. I used to adjust the valves on my Honda 4-cylinder, and I can still adjust 'em on my air-cooled VW. The Buddy engine, with its CDI ignition, is simpler to tune up as there are no points or distributor to adjust.

Now will I pull the head off? Not real soon. But when the time comes for belt/variator work after my warranty expires, maybe I'll attempt that.

CWO4GUNNER · Post by **CWO4GUNNER** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:38 am

Wrenchers like me can also get lazy mostly on starting a major repair, but once started we usually see it through. having to get under a vehicle outside or in a cold garage arm to elbow in grime to replace a clutch, timing belt, fuel pump, or drive shaft on a car is not something most wrenchers look forward to, especially old ones with aches and pains like me lol. But a motorcycle or scooter that you can take in the house over tarp with AC, good music and refreshments is a different story.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:31 am

I have been following this thread because I have had TWO shops screw me, and I'm looking at giving one of those shops a second (or in this case a third) chance because I may of not been the best of customers the first time, and the 2nd time I'm hoping that they fired the moron mechanic. But, I am looking at it with an objective viewpoint and not wanting to be the "douchebag" customer and hoping that they'll do the right thing and acknowledge that they fell short on service the 2nd time and will attempt to make a possible Buddy purchase a good experience for the both of us. With that being said...

I do have to agree with the previous comments that the "shop fee", regardless what the retail cost of materials are, can be worth far more than what you pay for if you understand what the nature of the work is, not just the basic breakdown of it. Taking on the job yourself is always an option, but you are paying for the service of someone ELSE doing it for you and that can often times be subjective if you don't establish the relationship early on and know where each party stands.

Case in point: A dealer that shall not be named did "warranty" work on my scooter that was more damage than fix. They ended up bashing up the motor worse than when it came in, and there were suddenly problems with the brakes and the starter that never existed before! So, after asking around I found the guys at The Urban Commuter in Tempe, AZ who actually worked on Vespas and not just Chinese scoots. When I went in to get my tires replaced they found out that the idiot from the shop that shall-not-be-named had put the rear wheel on my Vespa GTS on with an IMPACT WRENCH!! Needless to say, the wheel was tweaked and all the studs and such were stripped. They spent... I want to say $300... repairing the damage. In total it was a handful of bolts drilled, tapped and heli-coiled. The materials were less than $15. It took only a couple of hours. But, it was the best $300 I could spend. Why?

Because an entire new swingarm would've run me $1500+. He just saved me that headache, and I saw the damage. It was NOT pretty...

I know what they did, and if I were a brave man I would've attempted it myself and saved $285. But, would I of done it right? Delicate aluminum and steel meeting hardened steel bolts in a mis-mash of pressure and torque settings are VERY easy to get wrong, and I lived in an apartment. I knew I was in over my head for what I had to work with.

Sadly, they got saddled with the GTS after the finance company refused to do any more warranty work on it (my guess is that after 4 different shop visits to 3 different shops, they were done paying for it. They did shell out $5000 for repairs that were done by previous incompetents before it got to the Urban Commuter). But, they were totally cool with it, saying that with all the outstanding fees, it was up to the original shop it was under warranty with and that I should walk away from it. The original dealer ended up eating the cost of the remainder of the loan and paid it out, with no negative credit to me. I don't know if the "good" shop got any compensation, but they weren't holding a grudge at all! Very cool of them and very good advice... not something you expect to hear from a shop.

The point of the story is to realize that what you're paying for isn't always easy to break down into basic numbers unless you ASK and ask BEFORE the work is done. Any good shop will break it down for you, but not if you just say "Just make it happen" because they won't have the time to do so if they're doing their job. Also, the better the shop or more popular, the longer it's going to take. It's just how it is. You're not taking a Honda Civic for an oil change... scooters are a bit more specialized.

Again, this is just my opinion.

And, funny post-script about the shop I was talking about that helped me out: I recommended them to a friend of mine looking for a REAL Vintage Vespa, and she now has a clean VBB sitting on layaway until it's finished being refreshed by them. I figured that since they cut me slack before, the least I could do was send them a customer for a bike I knew they had. (kind of hope they're reading this since they are pretty good shop-only guys. They don't do retail sales anymore unless they happen to get something in from shop service or what not)