Vespanomics

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EBee
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Vespanomics

Post by EBee »

http://visual.ly/vespanomics-road-savings
What will you save by riding a scooter?
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Last edited by EBee on Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by peabody99 »

I love my Vespa like crazy but I always grumble when I get my service bills, "Vespanomics, my ass" . The scooter shop tells me to keep it down. :lol:
Buddy's bills are easier to swallow and of course the outlay is so much less scooter math actually comes out ok.
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Post by Howardr »

I suppose it depends on where you live and what you drive, but I try not to tell people that they will save money with a scooter. The only way I see that you save much is if you get rid of your car. Don't gewt me wrong, there is no stroner proponent of scooters that I. I love my scooters and average about 10k miles a year on them, but they don't save me any money. They are my hobby and my passion, but definitely not money savers.

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Post by jasondavis48108 »

Howardr wrote:I suppose it depends on where you live and what you drive, but I try not to tell people that they will save money with a scooter. The only way I see that you save much is if you get rid of your car. Don't gewt me wrong, there is no stroner proponent of scooters that I. I love my scooters and average about 10k miles a year on them, but they don't save me any money. They are my hobby and my passion, but definitely not money savers.

Howard
+1 Scooters have done a lot for me but saving me money isn't on that list. I suppose if I had stuck with just one maybe it would have saved me a bit of cash but with four scooters to insure and all the gear and accessories out there to buy, I'd have to say scooters suck up way more of my money than they could ever hope to save me. Then again, I suppose I save a bundle on doctors and psychologists since riding is a great way to relieve stress :D
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Re: Vespanomics

Post by Hellvis »

EBee wrote:http://visual.ly/vespanomics-road-savings
What will you save by riding a scooter?
Well actually, there are more cost savings if you thinkg about it than just the gas savings. I used to pay about 200.00 a month in gas to get to work, with my Black Jack I roughly pay about 20.00 a month in gas.

Service maintenance needs to be done either way, wether you have a car or a scooter, so now I have greater service intervall on my truck since I hardly put any miles on it and the larger repairs will also be prolonged. The only major service schedule I have left is on my scooter and those costs are not comparable to a car/truck service schedule.

I love my scooter and and as a side effect I am saving money as well. Not a single day passes by where I do not regret on buying this Black Jack.
Live long and prosper.
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Post by jprestonian »

Howardr wrote:I suppose it depends on where you live and what you drive, but I try not to tell people that they will save money with a scooter. The only way I see that you save much is if you get rid of your car.
That is precisely what I did, in November, 2006. I've saved at least $2600/year in insurance, fuel and maintenance ever since. It hasn't always been easy or pleasant, but it has generally been fun, educational and quite thrifty.
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Post by BootScootin'FireFighter »

We got rid of our cars, saved several HUNDRED dollars a month, possibly thousands a year. Our transportation budget is less than 15% what it was, even adding occassional Metro and Zipcar costs. Early this year, we were given (from my brother) a hand-me-down POS Honda Civic. Over 160,000 miles on it, simple maintenance, most of which I can do myself. Its for out of town, overnight, or few occassions where we want to be together and the scooters just aren't the most feasible... (chance of snow, staying out late, 100+ miles to visit family where there is no public transit). The car has been a bit of a lemon and needs a lot of work done, but only costing us $200 a year for insurance and $50 a month for a garage space. Car's don't have to be very expensive. People are obsessed with owning the latest and greatest and as soon as their car is paid off, feel the impulse to go out and get something new, thereby always having a carnote to pay. Add in complicated designs that make it almost impossible to do your own maintenance at home (I had a 2004 GTI), and now you're talking big bucks. Buy used that's easy to maintain and use it minimally.

The thrill of a new car only lasts a few days, then nobody cares anymore, it starts to get dirty, then you're stuck with the payments. Just my 2cents.
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Post by ericalm »

Scooternomics (in general) only works when you're replacing something with a scooter: your current car; getting a scooter in lieu of buying a car; getting rid of a payment. Most have found that mixing scootering and cars doesn't yield much savings. It also only works if the buyer sticks with it long enough to save the cost of the scooter.

Bryan has written about this quite a bit on 2strokebuzz in the past.

I've long thought that it's a bit ridiculous for Vespa to continually push how much they'll save people or how economical they are. Poppycock. They're the most expensive products on the market and cost of ownership is much higher than other scooters. By making an economic appeal, Vespa is trying to appeal to those who are looking to save money through ownership—those least likely to buy a Vespa and more likely to shop around for something that makes more financial sense. Now, some fall for the Vespa and buy it anyways, but many of those people wind up with a Buddy, Kymco or something else.

What I don't get is why Vespa doesn't use that argument to push their very good but lower-priced and often overlooked Piaggio and Aprilia models.

Then there's this. Helps if they get their figures right. :fp:
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Post by peabody99 »

we sold a car when we got our first scooter. Scooter parking was free at my husbands work-he had been paying $50 a month for the car. So it started out awesome. It all went down hill quickly though b/c then we had 2 scooters, and then 3. Still I had a job where I did a lot of driving and got remimbursed by the mile. that was pretty sweet I must say.
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Post by Lostmycage »

I bought a scooter to save money. I've NEVER saved money. I spend too much in tinkering with them to make them "better". I ride enough that I come out about even between riding my scoots and motorcycles including various modifications to customize them to what I spend on gas for my truck.

The cost of riding (including the "tinkering money" previously mentioned) is still well worth it considering how enjoyable each day is when riding vs. being stuck in a box on wheels.

All that said, if you bought a small displacement scoot and just rode it and never anything else, then I firmly believe that you'd save a TON of money if you replaced your car with it.

I'd pay money for this much fun. It's a bonus that I enjoy it so much.
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Post by EBee »

Everyone looks at my Buddy and asks if its a "Vespa". I think that's the only scooter brand the public recognizes, kinda like "Kleenex", unfortunately.

I know I save money--gas and car miles, wear and tear--just by commuting 2 or 3 days a week, because my commute is roughly 50 miles round trip every day. And there's 'soft savings'--my blood pressure is lower because I take the back roads, not the expressway, and I'm in a better mood when I get home. :wink:
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Post by redhandmoto »

Lostmycage wrote: All that said, if you bought a small displacement scoot and just rode it and never anything else, then I firmly believe that you'd save a TON of money if you replaced your car with it.
I hear ya; I did. Sold a truck and two cars. Saved a ton of money; gas, insurance, maint., etc., etc., etc. A ton of money.

And then spent it on more scoots. And mods. And more scoots.

The fun is seductive, M'Lords; all scoots are the same, and all are different.
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Post by Witch »

I've never owned a car, so I honestly don't know how much I'm saving.

But I definately know that unless he just wants to get out and go somewhere, SO is rarely willing to take the Pathfinder out for very simple errands that I can do on the scoot in nice weather. And unless it's flooding (like it has been off and on around here), he's most certainly not willing to pick me up from work 16 miles away with it. First thing out of his mouth is, "Do you know how much gas that would cost??"

I know I'm definately saving on gas... but other than that, I don't have a clue. Probably because I don't even know what kind of car I could realistically get if I wanted one.
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Post by manual_overide »

I've had my scoot for 2 months now and have put just over 1000 miles on her commuting to work mostly. I've tracked every fill-up and have only spent $45 in gas. I average about $45 per tank for my car (small 4-cyl SUV) and get about 300 miles out of it. So, driving my car instead of the scoot would have cost about $150 in gas over the same period of time. So I'm saving around $50 per month in just gas.

Obviously, the total savings is not that high due to insurance on another vehicle (only about $10/mo), service amortization (I put a little money aside every paycheck to cover expected service, so I'm never short and tempted to skip a service), etc. At the end of the day, I think I'm coming out about even $-wise. That doesn't factor in the fun of riding, however. I'm coming out way ahead there 8)

However, my wife got an Italia at the same time I got my Pamplona and has roughly the same numbers for everything as me. Where she gets ahead is parking. I don't have to pay for parking at work, but she does. If she can take her scooter every workday, she will save almost $200/mo in parking alone. :shock:
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Post by Dooglas »

manual_overide wrote:I've had my scoot for 2 months now and have put just over 1000 miles on her commuting to work mostly. I've tracked every fill-up and have only spent $45 in gas. I average about $45 per tank for my car (small 4-cyl SUV) and get about 300 miles out of it. So, driving my car instead of the scoot would have cost about $150 in gas over the same period of time. So I'm saving around $50 per month in just gas.
As others have observed, the economics issue is not just about gas. All ownership costs have to be factored in. You will find that you will spend more on tires and belts than you will on gas for a scooter. And my own example shows you where scooters can lead. I get a scooter for some gas savings and fun. My SO likes riding it. We get another. Now we ride together a lot. That 80 mpg turns into 40 mpg. We have a diesel car. It gets 40-50 mpg. We are lucky to break even with the scooters on fuel costs :wink: . The bottom line is really the fun factor.
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Post by ericalm »

Anyone who buys a scooter to save money hasn't really saved anything until they make back the cost of the scooter one way or another.

If you buy one to ride instead of driving a car you plan on keeping, there's also depreciation on a car that's not getting driven, paying registration and insurance for both and so on.

I'm not trying to argue against saving money by riding a scooter, just trying to put the numbers in a more realistic and practical perspective.

What we've heard over and over is that most scooter buyers get one for fun, even if they use the economic benefits to justify getting one. :)
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Post by peabody99 »

I complain, but I still think our 1 car + 3 scooters (2 of them economy) is cheaper than 2 cars. But I just need to admit like others have, it a heck of a lot of fun.
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Post by Raiderfn31 »

jprestonian wrote:
Howardr wrote:I suppose it depends on where you live and what you drive, but I try not to tell people that they will save money with a scooter. The only way I see that you save much is if you get rid of your car.
That is precisely what I did, in November, 2006. I've saved at least $2600/year in insurance, fuel and maintenance ever since. It hasn't always been easy or pleasant, but it has generally been fun, educational and quite thrifty.
.
Ive done the same thing. Not the easiest thing sometimes with the weather, but WTF are sick days for anyway? I pay about 6 bucks a week on gas. Gotta get good winter gear though!
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Post by jasondavis48108 »

If gas savings is the excuse folks need to get on a scooter then I say go for it. I'd rather have a bunch of folks on the road who are deluding themselves about thier savings while having a blast than a bunch of stressed out road ragers anyday :lol:

Realistically I think tires alone will kill any gas savings, especially if you have a shop do all the labor. My car tires are guaranteed to last 60k miles. My scooter tires last 5k if I'm lucky. Cost to replace at the shop, ~$250.00. Yep, there goes my gas savings :lol:
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Post by ericalm »

jasondavis48108 wrote:Cost to replace at the shop, ~$250.00. Yep, there goes my gas savings :lol:
WOW. Does that include the tires? That's a lot more than what I've paid for tire changes, for sure.

The Heidenau K61s (on my Vespa; they're overkill for the Stella) have lasted me much longer than any other tire. Well worth the extra price, especially if you're paying this much for changes!
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Post by goldscott »

I bought my scooter for economic reasons and because I didn't want to be stuck in construction traffic on the highways here in Chicago.

I still need a car for winter and stormy days (once every two weeks or so in the summer). My commute to work used to be 50 miles round trip, but my company moved so now it's only 32 round trip. My car gets about 20 MPG.

I'm probably saving about $40/week in gas. Over the past year and a half that I've owned my scooter, I've put 11000 miles on it and replaced the rear tire, belt, and rollers, and 4 oil filters. That's about $100 in parts. Over the same time period I had to replace the suspension & brakes in my car; $300 in parts. Insurance is $100/year for the scooter versus $600 for my car. $39 scooter registration versus $99 + $75 city sticker for the car.

I do all my own maintenance, which saves a fair amount for both vehicles.
Owning the car sucks and increases how long it will take for the scooter to pay itself off, but sooner or later I'll come out ahead financially. Especially as gas prices rise.

But I sure as hell have a lot more fun on the scooter!
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Post by Raiderfn31 »

jasondavis48108 wrote:If gas savings is the excuse folks need to get on a scooter then I say go for it. I'd rather have a bunch of folks on the road who are deluding themselves about thier savings while having a blast than a bunch of stressed out road ragers anyday :lol:

Realistically I think tires alone will kill any gas savings, especially if you have a shop do all the labor. My car tires are guaranteed to last 60k miles. My scooter tires last 5k if I'm lucky. Cost to replace at the shop, ~$250.00. Yep, there goes my gas savings :lol:
Switching from a car to a scooter has saved my bookoo $ my friend. Ive done it and I have more $ left over at the end of the month. Factor in all you want, this is my experience and no amount of "Well you have tires, service,etc" can change the fact that IM SAVING $. Sorry if I sound a bit short but dang listen! :wink:
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Post by gt1000 »

Servicing and tires are the big bugaboo as far as scooter and motorcycle costs. My OEM Buddy tires lasted into the 6000 mile range but I'm guessing the much grippier replacement Zippy 1's won't be as long-lived. With my Hyper, I got sick of replacing the rear Pirelli every 2500-3000 miles so I switched to Michelin Pilot Road 3's. They give up a little grip but should last at least twice as long. And honestly, so far I can't tell much difference. The GTS has a reputation for burning up rear tires too so I'll probably replace the OEM Pirellis with something else when the time comes.

With new cars, your single greatest operating expense is depreciation. Bikes probably depreciate on a steeper curve than cars but they start at a lower initial cost so the losses might be smaller over the long term. The other big expense for cars compared to scooters is insurance. I can insure both of scoots for around $200 a year, a new car is roughly 4 times that. Same goes for licensing and ownership "tax".

If I don't count the money spent on my motorcycle, operating two scooters is definitely cheaper than operating my last car, an Audi A4. Gas is a factor but at least here in Denver, the bigger factors are depreciation, insurance and licensing. And, as mentioned previously, it also takes giving up the car.
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Post by ericalm »

The lessons:

Don't do the math, just enjoy the ride!
If you feel like you're saving money, just go with it and don't dig any deeper. Revel in that good feeling.
Tell lots of other people how much you save on gas. Adopt a mildly smug (but not too smug) tone. Don't mention all the other stuff.
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Post by Raiderfn31 »

^^^^^ Im with you Eric. I do save $ but if it werent so damned enjoyable I would not ride.
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Post by jasondavis48108 »

ericalm wrote:
jasondavis48108 wrote:Cost to replace at the shop, ~$250.00. Yep, there goes my gas savings :lol:
WOW. Does that include the tires? That's a lot more than what I've paid for tire changes, for sure.

The Heidenau K61s (on my Vespa; they're overkill for the Stella) have lasted me much longer than any other tire. Well worth the extra price, especially if you're paying this much for changes!
This price included the tires. This is the price I paid when I rode to the shop and hade them do all the work as well. You save yourself a huge amount of loot if you pull the wheels off and just have them change the tires for you.
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Post by jasondavis48108 »

Raiderfn31 wrote:
jasondavis48108 wrote:If gas savings is the excuse folks need to get on a scooter then I say go for it. I'd rather have a bunch of folks on the road who are deluding themselves about thier savings while having a blast than a bunch of stressed out road ragers anyday :lol:

Realistically I think tires alone will kill any gas savings, especially if you have a shop do all the labor. My car tires are guaranteed to last 60k miles. My scooter tires last 5k if I'm lucky. Cost to replace at the shop, ~$250.00. Yep, there goes my gas savings :lol:
Switching from a car to a scooter has saved my bookoo $ my friend. Ive done it and I have more $ left over at the end of the month. Factor in all you want, this is my experience and no amount of "Well you have tires, service,etc" can change the fact that IM SAVING $. Sorry if I sound a bit short but dang listen! :wink:
you also live a lot further south than I do. I suppose if we didn't have a foot of snow by thanksgiving that stayed there till April then I might save more as well. I'm also sure that if you didn't have a car and only had 1 or 2 scooters then there would be a ton of savings. My family has a car and four scooters so we really aren't saving anything. I also suppose it depends on how far you commute to work, my work is only 5mi away so I don't save much when I ride v driving to work. Still, I think folks that own both cars and scooters probably aren't saving that much money if they don't do their own maintenance. It's really expensive to pay the shop to do all the work for you and the maintenance intervals are very short compared to cars.
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Post by jasondavis48108 »

ericalm wrote:The lessons:

Don't do the math, just enjoy the ride!
If you feel like you're saving money, just go with it and don't dig any deeper. Revel in that good feeling.
Tell lots of other people how much you save on gas. Adopt a mildly smug (but not too smug) tone. Don't mention all the other stuff.
+1 I do enough math at work :lol:
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Post by gt1000 »

One final point: if at all possible, buy used but only from a trusted source. You save a fortune on depreciation, taxes, licensing, set up fees and dealer fees. I bought my Buddy new in 2006 and my Hyper came via trade with another Colorado Ducati lover. The GT1000 I traded for the Hyper was bought new. My 2009 GTS with 354 miles on the clock was sourced after weeks of looking over at MV and Craigs' list.

I just now realized that the cost of my GTS and Buddy combined was actually less than the OTD cost of a new 300 GTS. That definitely helps. You can't always buy used but when opportunity knocks, try to open the door. There's also nothing quite like the smell and feel of a new bike, so I completely understand the allure of buying new.

Ultimately though, like everyone else, I ride for the sheer joy of it. An early morning summer ride, even if it's my daily commute, is pretty special. The air is still crisp and cool and I know I'm having more fun than the guy in the pickup truck.
Andy

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2009 Vespa 250 GTS (black)
2012 Triumph Tiger 800 (black)
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Post by neotrotsky »

Just got back from the Vespa dealer, and with the LX150 costing $5500 OTD, I would hardly call that a "great" deal these days in the scooter world. Yes, I *know* it's a 'legendary' Vespa and all that (I've had two Vespas and one other Piaggio powered bike). But, frankly... Vespa has forgotten there's a worldwide recession going on. It's funny because the LEADER 150 engine is actually less efficient than the Buddy 125 or the Honda PCX 125, increasing operating costs. Add in the $75-90/hr labor fees and the impossibility of parts supply in the US and it's not that "scooters" are more expensive to ride and maintain, but Vespas are possibly even more expensive to run than even Harley Davidsons. But, they have fashion on their side. My wife calls the Buddy "dorky" but seems to have no problem on me spending nearly twice as much on the LX150 because it "looks better", regardless of the fact that she knows it will costs us three times to run.

But, they're making money on it, so I guess the facts don't really matter. Now, don't take this as me slamming scooters... It's me getting pissy with Piaggio
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Post by ericalm »

neotrotsky wrote:But, they're making money on it
I wouldn't be too sure about that. Many dealers are still struggling and if the market doesn't pick up and stabilize more may close. As is, they've lost quite a few over the recession.

To Vespa's credit (sort of), when Vespa came back to the US in 2001, an ET 150 cost $4,000. I think the price of the LX 150 in 2009 was $4,200. The LX 150ie is $4,600. So, in some ways, it's a wonder they don't cost more! :twisted:

Don't get me wrong, I think Piaggio/Vespa's products are great. But in the scooter world, they're the least likely to save anyone money! (A lot of people have issues with the company, how they do business and how they treat customers. Many of them have good reason for their feelings.)
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Post by mattgordon »

Dooglas wrote:
manual_overide wrote:I've had my scoot for 2 months now and have put just over 1000 miles on her commuting to work mostly. I've tracked every fill-up and have only spent $45 in gas. I average about $45 per tank for my car (small 4-cyl SUV) and get about 300 miles out of it. So, driving my car instead of the scoot would have cost about $150 in gas over the same period of time. So I'm saving around $50 per month in just gas.
As others have observed, the economics issue is not just about gas. All ownership costs have to be factored in. You will find that you will spend more on tires and belts than you will on gas for a scooter. And my own example shows you where scooters can lead. I get a scooter for some gas savings and fun. My SO likes riding it. We get another. Now we ride together a lot. That 80 mpg turns into 40 mpg. We have a diesel car. It gets 40-50 mpg. We are lucky to break even with the scooters on fuel costs :wink: . The bottom line is really the fun factor.

Absolutely right Dooglas, in multi-scooter households the fuel savings is a goner, and in multi-Vespa scenarios you have 2x the overpriced cost of maintenance. We just did a 1300 mile trip on 2 Vespas and between the combined 34 mpg we got (premium fuel) and pre and post service costs, we could've taken our Scion xD and been money ahead....

But we sure had a great ride :D
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Post by neotrotsky »

ericalm wrote:
neotrotsky wrote:But, they're making money on it
I wouldn't be too sure about that. Many dealers are still struggling and if the market doesn't pick up and stabilize more may close. As is, they've lost quite a few over the recession.

To Vespa's credit (sort of), when Vespa came back to the US in 2001, an ET 150 cost $4,000. I think the price of the LX 150 in 2009 was $4,200. The LX 150ie is $4,600. So, in some ways, it's a wonder they don't cost more! :twisted:

Don't get me wrong, I think Piaggio/Vespa's products are great. But in the scooter world, they're the least likely to save anyone money! (A lot of people have issues with the company, how they do business and how they treat customers. Many of them have good reason for their feelings.)
When I talk about "They" I'm speaking of Piaggio and not the dealers so much. I know the local dealer in Chandler makes their actual money off of labor for service and their stable of BMW bikes, and I don't blame them for that since BMW is a fine machine.

It's the premium tag that just makes them not so economical, and at this point I *really* wonder if the lower MPG, lower top speed, higher priced (and often impossible to get) parts, rude treatment to their US customers and snobbish exterior in general is really worth twice the price. I love the style and the look, but performance wise... aside from the GTS their lower displacement offerings have been a total let down. My GTS250ie got better real-world gas mileage than the LX150! I'd love to get another one of those, but again... at about $7,000 out the door, I could just save another grand and walk over to the other side of the showroom for a BMW GS650.

Not that I want to leave the scooter world! But, this is why Genuine is such a nice company: They're giving us what Vespa SHOULD be giving: Better customer support, better parts network, and more attention to scooter culture at an affordable price that still brings better build quality than the "rest" of the scooters
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Post by Edwub »

I did save a ton of money. It's about trade offs.

I bought my scooter for ~1200 shortly after moving to LA. I "gave" my car to my brother who is in school down in San Diego. Saved my family from trying to get him a car. I count that as a saving.

My fiancée has a car; life became easier for us when we let mine go away. No need to struggle for street parking for my car anymore (only 1 assigned space). My commute time was cut in half or even more at 6pm (west LA). Gas savings = huge, huge for both of us. Parking is free on campus for scoots, it's hundreds per month for a car.

I tell my coworkers that the gas+parking pass savings alone could cover a cheap or used scooter. My Honda has cheap maintainence.
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Post by Raiderfn31 »

ericalm wrote:Scooternomics (in general) only works when you're replacing something with a scooter: your current car; getting a scooter in lieu of buying a car; getting rid of a payment. Most have found that mixing scootering and cars doesn't yield much savings. It also only works if the buyer sticks with it long enough to save the cost of the scooter.

Bryan has written about this quite a bit on 2strokebuzz in the past.

I've long thought that it's a bit ridiculous for Vespa to continually push how much they'll save people or how economical they are. Poppycock. They're the most expensive products on the market and cost of ownership is much higher than other scooters. By making an economic appeal, Vespa is trying to appeal to those who are looking to save money through ownership—those least likely to buy a Vespa and more likely to shop around for something that makes more financial sense. Now, some fall for the Vespa and buy it anyways, but many of those people wind up with a Buddy, Kymco or something else.

What I don't get is why Vespa doesn't use that argument to push their very good but lower-priced and often overlooked Piaggio and Aprilia models.

Then there's this. Helps if they get their figures right. :fp:
Almost got a Blue LX with brown seat....the price diff was over 1500 over my buddy150
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Post by ericalm »

Raiderfn31 wrote:Almost got a Blue LX with brown seat....the price diff was over 1500 over my buddy150
I can in no way criticize blue Vespas with brown seats.
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Post by Raiderfn31 »

jasondavis48108 wrote:
Raiderfn31 wrote:
jasondavis48108 wrote:If gas savings is the excuse folks need to get on a scooter then I say go for it. I'd rather have a bunch of folks on the road who are deluding themselves about thier savings while having a blast than a bunch of stressed out road ragers anyday :lol:

Realistically I think tires alone will kill any gas savings, especially if you have a shop do all the labor. My car tires are guaranteed to last 60k miles. My scooter tires last 5k if I'm lucky. Cost to replace at the shop, ~$250.00. Yep, there goes my gas savings :lol:
Switching from a car to a scooter has saved my bookoo $ my friend. Ive done it and I have more $ left over at the end of the month. Factor in all you want, this is my experience and no amount of "Well you have tires, service,etc" can change the fact that IM SAVING $. Sorry if I sound a bit short but dang listen! :wink:
you also live a lot further south than I do. I suppose if we didn't have a foot of snow by thanksgiving that stayed there till April then I might save more as well. I'm also sure that if you didn't have a car and only had 1 or 2 scooters then there would be a ton of savings. My family has a car and four scooters so we really aren't saving anything. I also suppose it depends on how far you commute to work, my work is only 5mi away so I don't save much when I ride v driving to work. Still, I think folks that own both cars and scooters probably aren't saving that much money if they don't do their own maintenance. It's really expensive to pay the shop to do all the work for you and the maintenance intervals are very short compared to cars.
Yeah I get it. "Whats the square root of this room?" :wink:
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Post by Raiderfn31 »

ericalm wrote:
Raiderfn31 wrote:Almost got a Blue LX with brown seat....the price diff was over 1500 over my buddy150
I can in no way criticize blue Vespas with brown seats.
Image
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Scooter envy. What a great ride. Whats the model?
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Post by Dooglas »

Raiderfn31 wrote:Scooter envy. What a great ride. Whats the model?
Why, the LX150 - a great alround scooter IMO. In tnis case, I believe Eric has kitted it out to 190.
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Post by ericalm »

Dooglas wrote:
Raiderfn31 wrote:Scooter envy. What a great ride. Whats the model?
Why, the LX150 - a great alround scooter IMO. In tnis case, I believe Eric has kitted it out to 190.
Indeed.
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Post by Raiderfn31 »

jasondavis48108 wrote:
Raiderfn31 wrote:
jasondavis48108 wrote:If gas savings is the excuse folks need to get on a scooter then I say go for it. I'd rather have a bunch of folks on the road who are deluding themselves about thier savings while having a blast than a bunch of stressed out road ragers anyday :lol:

Realistically I think tires alone will kill any gas savings, especially if you have a shop do all the labor. My car tires are guaranteed to last 60k miles. My scooter tires last 5k if I'm lucky. Cost to replace at the shop, ~$250.00. Yep, there goes my gas savings :lol:
Switching from a car to a scooter has saved my bookoo $ my friend. Ive done it and I have more $ left over at the end of the month. Factor in all you want, this is my experience and no amount of "Well you have tires, service,etc" can change the fact that IM SAVING $. Sorry if I sound a bit short but dang listen! :wink:
you also live a lot further south than I do. I suppose if we didn't have a foot of snow by thanksgiving that stayed there till April then I might save more as well. I'm also sure that if you didn't have a car and only had 1 or 2 scooters then there would be a ton of savings. My family has a car and four scooters so we really aren't saving anything. I also suppose it depends on how far you commute to work, my work is only 5mi away so I don't save much when I ride v driving to work. Still, I think folks that own both cars and scooters probably aren't saving that much money if they don't do their own maintenance. It's really expensive to pay the shop to do all the work for you and the maintenance intervals are very short compared to cars.

Snow tires?
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Post by neotrotsky »

I've found that most maintenance on a 4-stroke scooter is dead simple and can be learned by any average rider. The most intimidating thing is probably valve adjustment, and even that isn't terribly hard once you get over opening the "heart" of the bike. Belt changes are probably the 2nd hardest, simply because you need 3 hands and you always end up losing one of the bolts to the CVT case for about 10 minutes as you root around the ground for it :lol:

Tires are another way to save. The local Cycle Gear will swap out rubber on a wheel off the bike for only $20. Since most decent scooter tire brands run $50 to $60, this really cuts down on those shop fees by doing it yourself.

If you REALLY wanted to go all elaborate, you could buy a set of wheels (salvaged or new...whatev) with new rubber waiting and just swap them out when they get low, and take the other set in for a new shoe change whenever you have free time. If you're paying $250 per visit to change tires, you can EASILY make that up in two tire changes (and you'd have spares when you need them!!). Alot of Stella and Vintage riders already do this with the help of their on-board spare. And, on those scooters you can change out the rubber yourself with hand tools, saving even more cash! I'm pretty sure you can swap out Buddy tires with hand tools, but I've never had hands-on experience with one so I can't say for sure.

Scootering can be a money saver, if you embrace the DIY culture of it. It's more fun :D
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Post by jasondavis48108 »

Raiderfn31 wrote:
jasondavis48108 wrote:
Raiderfn31 wrote: Switching from a car to a scooter has saved my bookoo $ my friend. Ive done it and I have more $ left over at the end of the month. Factor in all you want, this is my experience and no amount of "Well you have tires, service,etc" can change the fact that IM SAVING $. Sorry if I sound a bit short but dang listen! :wink:
you also live a lot further south than I do. I suppose if we didn't have a foot of snow by thanksgiving that stayed there till April then I might save more as well. I'm also sure that if you didn't have a car and only had 1 or 2 scooters then there would be a ton of savings. My family has a car and four scooters so we really aren't saving anything. I also suppose it depends on how far you commute to work, my work is only 5mi away so I don't save much when I ride v driving to work. Still, I think folks that own both cars and scooters probably aren't saving that much money if they don't do their own maintenance. It's really expensive to pay the shop to do all the work for you and the maintenance intervals are very short compared to cars.

Snow tires?
You know Schwalbe supposedly makes studded tires for scooters but everytime I go to thier website they say they are sold out. They've been sold out for three years now so my guess is that they no longer make them :(
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Post by neotrotsky »

Have you tried asking some of our Nordic scooter friends? There's got to be a company in Sweden, Norway or Finland that makes snow tires for scooters...
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Post by jasondavis48108 »

neotrotsky wrote:Have you tried asking some of our Nordic scooter friends? There's got to be a company in Sweden, Norway or Finland that makes snow tires for scooters...
I've searched the interwebs fairly thouroughly. I've found youtube videos of folks running studs but no where to buy them :(
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Post by Raiderfn31 »

jasondavis48108 wrote:
Raiderfn31 wrote:
jasondavis48108 wrote:If gas savings is the excuse folks need to get on a scooter then I say go for it. I'd rather have a bunch of folks on the road who are deluding themselves about thier savings while having a blast than a bunch of stressed out road ragers anyday :lol:

Realistically I think tires alone will kill any gas savings, especially if you have a shop do all the labor. My car tires are guaranteed to last 60k miles. My scooter tires last 5k if I'm lucky. Cost to replace at the shop, ~$250.00. Yep, there goes my gas savings :lol:
Switching from a car to a scooter has saved my bookoo $ my friend. Ive done it and I have more $ left over at the end of the month. Factor in all you want, this is my experience and no amount of "Well you have tires, service,etc" can change the fact that IM SAVING $. Sorry if I sound a bit short but dang listen! :wink:
you also live a lot further south than I do. I suppose if we didn't have a foot of snow by thanksgiving that stayed there till April then I might save more as well. I'm also sure that if you didn't have a car and only had 1 or 2 scooters then there would be a ton of savings. My family has a car and four scooters so we really aren't saving anything. I also suppose it depends on how far you commute to work, my work is only 5mi away so I don't save much when I ride v driving to work. Still, I think folks that own both cars and scooters probably aren't saving that much money if they don't do their own maintenance. It's really expensive to pay the shop to do all the work for you and the maintenance intervals are very short compared to cars.
"Be the snow"
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Post by jasondavis48108 »

Raiderfn31 wrote:
jasondavis48108 wrote:
Raiderfn31 wrote: Switching from a car to a scooter has saved my bookoo $ my friend. Ive done it and I have more $ left over at the end of the month. Factor in all you want, this is my experience and no amount of "Well you have tires, service,etc" can change the fact that IM SAVING $. Sorry if I sound a bit short but dang listen! :wink:
you also live a lot further south than I do. I suppose if we didn't have a foot of snow by thanksgiving that stayed there till April then I might save more as well. I'm also sure that if you didn't have a car and only had 1 or 2 scooters then there would be a ton of savings. My family has a car and four scooters so we really aren't saving anything. I also suppose it depends on how far you commute to work, my work is only 5mi away so I don't save much when I ride v driving to work. Still, I think folks that own both cars and scooters probably aren't saving that much money if they don't do their own maintenance. It's really expensive to pay the shop to do all the work for you and the maintenance intervals are very short compared to cars.
"Be the snow"
I would be the snow, or at least be one with the snow, if I rode during a Michigan winter. Doesn't sound like fun to me :lol:
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Post by Raiderfn31 »

Raiderfn31 wrote:
ericalm wrote:
Raiderfn31 wrote:Almost got a Blue LX with brown seat....the price diff was over 1500 over my buddy150
I can in no way criticize blue Vespas with brown seats.
Image
"Don't mess with a man on a light blue scooter!" — Jimmy Fallon
Scooter envy. What a great ride. Whats the model?
I will own a Vespa one day simply because they look SWEET.
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