Turning/Curving Left is kinda sucking... Suggestions?

goddessofmath · Post by **goddessofmath** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:48 am

OK so I'm still new to scooter riding (under a month but have taken the MSF course), and I'm still working up my speed past 40 mph. Last time y'all heard from me 35 was pushing it, so I'm feeling good that I've worked up 5 mph more, and I'm hoping to hit 45 comfortably soon. Yay for small victories!

New issue though: I don't recall this being a real issue until last Wednesday. I've started having trouble turning left. Not just turning, but if the road curves left, I'm struggling there too. Like it's not easy to turn/curve, and I'm not making the curve smoothly & having a hard time staying in my lane. I feel like I'm straying to the right more and more when I'm going straight too. I've been having to slow WAY down for turning left or going into left curves in the road, and because of it, I'm tensing up which I know isn't helping the situation.

I just practiced for an hour or so and spent a long time in my complex (which is HUGE) taking left and right hand turns and weaving a bit like we did in MSF just to work on it and felt some more comfortable by the end. Haven't been able to practice much because of the 100+ degree heat here in TX.

Now I recognize this is most likely JUST ME and nothing to do with VoldeScoot, but has anyone else had an issue like this? Suggestions welcome.

(Saw a post a while back about right turns I think, but have been searching for a while & not found it again.)

Post by **jmazza** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:06 am

Glad you're progressing! You'll be much more comfortable in no time I'm sure.

As for your trouble turning, are you remembering to look where you want to go? Not just your eyes but your whole head should look where you want to go and the scooter ought to follow. It's one of the things I didn't find very intuitive so I thought I'd suggest it!

goddessofmath · Post by **goddessofmath** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:09 am

jmazza wrote:Glad you're progressing! You'll be much more comfortable in no time I'm sure.

As for your trouble turning, are you remembering to look where you want to go? Not just your eyes but your whole head should look where you want to go and the scooter ought to follow. It's one of the things I didn't find very intuitive so I thought I'd suggest it!

I'm fairly certain I'm doing that, but I'll pay more attention to it tomorrow morning on my drive to church. Thanks for the tip!

Ressikan · Post by **Ressikan** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:28 am

When Phil first dropped off my scooter he said that as well. Look where you want to go. The other thing he suggested was to ride in an empty parking lot and do figure eights. This way you get used to going left 'and' right.

Then he suggested doing 'stop and go' figure eights. Complete one loop and stop. Look both ways, then continue on with the other half of the 8. This gets you into the great habit of actually looking both ways before crossing an intersection.

I found it very helpful.

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:59 am

agree look through the turn-where you want to end up, don't look at the road below you. Plus do all your braking BEFORE the turn then roll the throttle through the turn. It is dangerous to brake in a turn. Practice on empty roads. Failure to stay in lane -by crossing yellow line or running off road to right -is the reason for many accidents.

Post by **jrsjr** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:01 am

Never make another left. Make 3 right turns, instead! That's what J Edgar Hoover did for the rest of his life after being involved in a crash while turning left.

goddessofmath · Post by **goddessofmath** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:12 am

jrsjr wrote:Never make another left. Make 3 right turns, instead! That's what J Edgar Hoover did for the rest of his life after being involved in a crash while turning left.

Hahaha! I'd shoot for that for a while if it was just left turns, but it's the curve in the road that messes me up too.

I did take the MSF course & learn about the dangers of braking in curves & have been slowing before the curve, but thanks for the reminder.

I'm going to pay attention to looking ahead tomorrow morning when I ride to church & see if that helps.

Anyone else have this issues where turning one way was awesome and the other way kinda sucked? It's me, right? Not VoldeScoot?

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:28 am

And you all will laugh. But check your tire air pressure. I will bet the front air pressure is low!

And a others said...turn and look thru that turn...I was an MSF instructor for years and a roadracing school instructor...practice, you are doing fine, but look thru the turn it helps !

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:30 am

Oh, and after riding for 37 years I STILL turn better to the left then to the right...So don't be discouraged, just practice

goddessofmath · Post by **goddessofmath** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:33 am

viney266 wrote:And you all will laugh. But check your tire air pressure. I will bet the front air pressure is low!

And a others said...turn and look thru that turn...I was an MSF instructor for years and a roadracing school instructor...practice, you are doing fine, but look thru the turn it helps !

Thanks. Suggestions on optimal air pressure? The book with the Buddy said 24psi I believe.

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:37 am

When I first started riding, which is now a long, long time ago, I always felt more comfortable turning left. When I picked up riding again after a long "sabbatical" the same issue reared its head. When I took the MSF after said sabbatical, I had real problems doing slow speed right turns, it just felt unnatural. I actually think it's pretty common: most folks favor their right or their left to some extent.

Looking through the turn is lesson number one. Focus on your entry point and exit point and stay smooth on all points in between. Concentrate completely on riding, avoid all distractions.

Perhaps most importantly, avoid tensing up. You mentioned tensing and it's not a good thing while riding. The next time you're feeling tense, aim a bit of your attention to your hands. Do you have a light touch or a "death grip" on the grips? If it's the latter, you need to work on maintaining a light touch on the grips. When you're gripping the bars too tightly you can be causing all sorts of problems. Relax, breathe and enjoy the ride. Over time, everything will start feeling more natural.

goddessofmath · Post by **goddessofmath** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:46 am

Um... so I'm feeling a bit moronic. After reading more on the site (and better learning to how to make the search work the way I needed it to - AND matters y'all!

) I now know I need to check my tire pressure and get it to about 30psi on both tires. Looks like I've got a job to do after church tomorrow. I'm weird but honestly hoping the tire pressure is off and that handling is much better once I get it right.

Will let y'all know tomorrow what's up.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:54 am

yeah...I was just about to say 30 in front maybe 32 rear...

Don't feel silly. This is a nice place and how we all learn

jijifer · Post by **jijifer** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:12 am

I do 30psi front and rear. my shop seems to like 28front 30 rear but I always adjust back to 30/30 as soon as I'm home because I don't like the way it feels at 28 and yes, I notice the difference.

my friend (and now so do I) carry this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000CBIGG

in my seat plus a gauge. I never felt all that confident in curves and turns on stock tires. Once I changed to better tires, I've been fine.

But I do turn left better than right. straightening out the curve (out in out) seems easier turning left.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:15 am

I get a stiff neck sometimes, and when it happens, I can turn my head easier to the left than the right. I actually noticed it affecting my turns once.

gunsntexas · Post by **gunsntexas** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:05 pm

Looking through is huge. I went out and bought a stack of soccer cones. Found the MSG scooter class guide with exercises. (Pretty much same as the basic rider course) I go to the local school when I want some more practice on my super novice right turns.

Visited a friend and his wife. Long time Harley riders. Head dude at local MC. He tells me he has a weaker right turn than left. Hmm what do you know... So I just know I have to be more careful and work harder on that direction.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:38 pm

Starting slowly and taking your time to learn and practice before rushing into streets with traffic is a good thing!

Learn at your own pace. Don't push yourself too hard, just hard enough that your skills are improving as you go.

Your patience will be rewarded!

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:39 pm

jijifer wrote:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000CBIGG

I was going to email Wayne for a link for this thing after seeing his a couple weeks ago!

Raiderfn31 · Post by **Raiderfn31** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:50 pm

jrsjr wrote:Never make another left. Make 3 right turns, instead! That's what J Edgar Hoover did for the rest of his life after being involved in a crash while turning left.

Maybe ole J Edgars boyfriend was getting frisky when he crashed.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:00 pm

When others say "look through your turn" , they don't mean just look in the direction you are going (though that certainly doesn't hurt). Hopefully this was mentioned this in your MSF course, but the thing to do is actually plan your turn by imagining the curved line that you want to follow through the turn - then look at that line. Sounds complicated but after doing it deliberately for a while, you will just do it automatically.

(and yes, be sure to check your tire pressure periodically - but I wouldn't think soft tires would only affect left turns - sounds like you're psyching yourself out here

)

Wheelz · Post by **Wheelz** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:20 pm

Perhaps you can try the Derrick Zoolander School for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Stuff. I hear the founder of the school had a problem turning left as well....jk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uhy15R7 ... detailpage

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:33 pm

Well this may be too basic for you but when you turn, do you shift weight left or just apply pressure to the grip? Shifting weight takes more time to get used to. Pressure on the grip is more repeatable early on...in my humble experience

Smack me if you wish...

beastmaster · Post by **beastmaster** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:59 am

some times you gotta just get out there and put the hours in , the more you ride the more comfortable you will get, how many miles have you driven??

goddessofmath · Post by **goddessofmath** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:09 am

beastmaster wrote:some times you gotta just get out there and put the hours in , the more you ride the more comfortable you will get, how many miles have you driven??

Today was my first gas fill up. I've driven about 90 miles. I had a motorcyclist from church drive VoldeScoot today, and he had no issues, so it firmed up that it's me, not the scoot. I bought a tire gauge & pump but will use it tomorrow. I had fire ants invade my closet & that's taken precedent.

I think you're right, I need to practice more. Honestly my arms are kinda sore tonight because I was so tense on my SHORT drive today. I've got to relax and loosen up again. I feel like I've regressed. There's quite a few schools around with empty parking lots that I'm going to practice in this week.

Oh and countersteering -

I just realized today that you press right to go right and then STOP PRESSING RIGHT. Yeah... I was having a hard time figuring out how to hold that pressing right thing and keeping going right.

Right? I was doing that wrong, right? LOL!

cameron · Post by **cameron** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:25 am

I was actually going to mention counter steering. I'm sure you know all this already but...yes at higher speeds pushing forward with your right hand yields a right turn and as you slow down you transition into traditional steering (aiming the handlebars where you want to go). I'm not sure how fast you are going when you experience this problem but if your slow enough to be near that transition it can feel pretty strange.

goddessofmath · Post by **goddessofmath** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:07 am

I struggle more with higher speed turns (over 20) than low speed turns in either direction. I think it has to do with not realizing that counter-steering is to initiate the turn not to really carry it through. It initiates the lean from what I understand from something I found on here in a beginners thread.

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:13 am

cameron · Post by **cameron** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:23 am

yeah I figured. Just thought I'd throw it out to make sure. Another thought that occurred to me is how important weight distribution is. you mention the lean. I'm really not an expert but I've found that the leaning and counter-steering are pretty much integrated into each other.
My wife hops on the back of my scoot pretty often and it becomes immediately apparent how easily weight can throw the balance off and make turning feel really strange. All she has to do is lean her head to the side or shift her weight slightly to try to look around me and I feel the bike drift. I'm pretty sure I've seen a hot shot street biker steering his bike with no hands at some point!

goddessofmath · Post by **goddessofmath** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:04 pm

No hands?!

Ha! That's crazy! I don't feel as silly with something that happened yesterday now that you mention weight. Yesterday I went to WalMart on the way home and grabbed some fire ant killer along with my new bike pump which made for a fairly heavy bag (foot pump). I hung it on that little hook in front of my legs and headed home. Combined with me and my current issue with spazzing myself out, when I took corners and the bag swung a bit, I swear I could feel the difference in the drive! Just something to get used to. I'll be riding with a backpack many days when I head back to work in a few weeks.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:36 pm

If it's a backpack full of math books (recovering math/CS major here), you might do two things: (1) start practicing now with the load. The last thing you want is to be riding to a stress-filled first day of school chanting "OMG! OMG!" all the way, or worse, take a tumble, as you discover your newly-unbalanced top-heavy load when rounding a turn.

Which leads me to (2): consider saddlebags or a front rack. On a bike as light as a Buddy (around 225 lbs dry), keeping the center of gravity low is very important. You might also consider a front rack - I've got single textbooks (well, OK, user manuals) today that exceed the rear rack's weight rating. I don't know the front rack's rating, but because of the way it attaches to the frame, I'm betting it's higher. Mine seems much more 'solid' and far less likely to bend or break a weld when hitting a nasty bump.

sja5164 · Post by **sja5164** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:52 pm

cameron wrote:I'm pretty sure I've seen a hot shot street biker steering his bike with no hands at some point!

I've done that. (on quiet roads!!!)

When I turn I barely move the handlebars at all, it's all about moving your weight around and leaning.

jijifer · Post by **jijifer** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:09 pm

and it could just be a matter of you changing your thinking. you write "kinda sucking" but if you're making it through a turn you did it successfully!

Cut yourself some slack. Get on your scoot every time telling yourself you're a good rider and get better every day.

Stop telling yourself you suck at turns or you'll continue to suck at them. Start telling yourself you'd navigated every curve/turn successfully so far and will continue to!

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:47 pm

cameron wrote:I'm pretty sure I've seen a hot shot street biker steering his bike with no hands at some point!

I never let go, of course, but I enjoy the fact that I can swerve around potholes just by swishing my butt back and forth.

iMoses · Post by **iMoses** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:27 pm

A few years ago friends of mine had a discussion that if you are left-eye dominate it is easier to make left turns. Same is true for right-eye dominate people. But the counterpoint of this discussion was that is was due to being left or right handed.

I find right turns easier to make at all speeds, I am left eye dominate and left-handed.

cameron · Post by **cameron** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:08 pm

sja5164 wrote:
cameron wrote:I'm pretty sure I've seen a hot shot street biker steering his bike with no hands at some point!
I've done that. (on quiet roads!!!)

When I turn I barely move the handlebars at all, it's all about moving your weight around and leaning.

i guess i'm a little jealous of riders who are that comfortable

goddess:

have you ever experimented with doing a little "slaloming" ?
it's pretty much what makes riding fun for me!
find a nice straight quiet road and do some weaving side to side. It's a good way to get a feel for your bike and how your body controls it.

definitely stick to what's comfortable and, of course, disregard if your already past this in terms of experience

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:24 am

iMoses wrote:A few years ago friends of mine had a discussion that if you are left-eye dominate it is easier to make left turns. Same is true for right-eye dominate people. But the counterpoint of this discussion was that is was due to being left or right handed.

I find right turns easier to make at all speeds, I am left eye dominate and left-handed.

^^^ Good discussion subject...but I throw you off. Right eye dom. right handed, better in LEFT turns...

The counter steering thing? DON'T think about it too hard, just do it...Most riders have been doing it for years, just never realized they are.

And steering around things no hands? Yeah its fun to do on lonely downhills on back roads...Its then that you realize HOW much you countersteer!

Beamster · Post by **Beamster** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:25 am

Don't compete in NASCAR.

goddessofmath · Post by **goddessofmath** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:42 am

Tonight I did some "maintenance" on VoldeScoot... I put it in quotes because something tells me adding decals to him isn't what y'all call maintenance. I also checked the tires, and they were lower than 30 (front one was considerably lower), so I filled them up again.

Biggest frustration? I've been working non-stop (keep in mind it's summer & I'm a teacher), and tomorrow was the first day I could ride my route to work for a meeting and get back home before it hit 110 degrees (not exaggerating), but my plans got all switched around (not by me), so now I'm missing out on my practice time tomorrow.

Sooooo frustrated right now! Looks like maybe I can go out Thursday instead, but I had my heart set on my morning of practice.

**Oh and for anyone wondering, my decals are a pink Disney tiara, a Deathly Hallows symbol (looks hand-drawn & went front & center), an HP logo, a heart, and a Mickey head. All but the tiara are black.**

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:03 pm

Beamster wrote:Don't compete in NASCAR.

Best. Advice. Ever.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:51 pm

[Sorry, Eric, but I've been holding this one in since the OP...]

Actually, I'm so conservative I find it hard to turn left, too.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:40 pm

PeteH wrote:Actually, I'm so conservative I find it hard to turn left, too.

Yeh, I know. I think right turns bother me for the same reason

.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:40 pm

I have a friend who is so relentlessly middle-of-the-road that it's a wonder he turns at all. Or even stays off the yellow line.

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:45 pm

goddessofmath wrote:Tonight I did some "maintenance" on VoldeScoot... I put it in quotes because something tells me adding decals to him isn't what y'all call maintenance....

Stickers count as maintenance in my book!

You just need to practice. And practice can be everywhere. I pretend the manhole covers are squirrels. Swerve, swerve, swerve. I come to redlights and see how long I can maneuver the scoot in place before having to put my feet down. All these things take time.

It sounds like you're beating yourself up some. Instead of "I wish I could do better", how about "Man, that was fun" and "I pulled a good line there".

PeteH is right. You don't want to be riding with a heavy backpack; it messes with your turns because the weight shifts. Get a rack and crate for the back or get used to having something sitting on the floorboards (put your feet on the 'passenger' rests).

And finally, don't do what the teacher from whom I bought one of the bikes did...have his knapsack burst open on I-95 and student papers fly all over the highway. He had some 'splaining to do to the kids who received papers with tire tracks on them.

goddessofmath · Post by **goddessofmath** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:56 am

Tomorrow will be my first ride to where I work (today's ride got screwed by unplanned meetings & the heat). I got a good laptop backpack tonight to use for the ride. Thankfully I don't carry lots of books home (or much more than my lunch and a few papers) as I try to leave work at home. Mostly if I carry anything it will be my laptop.

The story about student papers flying down the road is my worst "my bag broke" fear! That would sick so bad!

Tomorrow's gonna go great.

I can feel it in my bones! Going early to my meetings to get some extra practice in before I go in. Wish me luck!