(NBR) But needed to vent

[out18law18]

I had to renew my tag on my 08 Buddy 125 today. when i got to the tag agency they told me it was going to be $97 TO RENEW!!!! I asked how it was possible for it to cost that much and they told me that it doesnt matter how much the vehicle cost it just goes by year. So a $100,000 luxury car would cost the same price as my $1400 scooter to renew! I am so mad right now, this is just another case of the rich getting richer at the expense of the middle class. I bought my scooter for economy(and fun of course) and this is a def set back on my scooter paying for its self.

Had to get that off my chest.

[Syd]

This must be your first registered vehicle. Every state is different; in AZ we pay what amounts to State Sales Tax every year for renewal OR and FL had a flat rate of next to nothing, I think, which is why you see so many rentals registered in OR and FL.

[bluebuddygirl]

Every state is VERY different. Ohio it is cheaper for two wheeled vehicles than 4, but my friend lives in Las Vegas, and anyone there can correct me if I am wrong, but I think it is a percentage based on the value of the vehicle and can be outrageously expensive!

[jijifer]

yep my renewal is $90 here in cali, too. my car was $70

[charlie55]

Ditto here in NJ. The registration on my '00 Nissan costs $46.50, while the '05 Helix is $65.00.

What's even more exasperating though is that the MVC charges a $2.00 "convenience fee" if you renew online and use a credit card. Now I understand that there are credit card processing fees that need to be paid, but you'd think that the savings generated by automating the renewal process would be more than that 2 bucks and could easily be absorbed by the agency while still realizing a cost reduction. But I guess that they need to maintain a full-time staff dedicated to wiping the computer monitors with Windex every 15 minutes.

[jprestonian]

Here in Davidson County (Metro Nashville), Tennessee, all fees add up to $74.00/year for tag/registration renewal. There is no ad valorem tax on the value of the vehicle, but on vehicle initial purchase, there's a 9.25% sales tax in this county.

In fact, we pay 9.25% sales tax on everything but non-prepared food here in Nashville (on which we pay 8.25%).

Next time someone wants to tell you about "poor people that pay no taxes," please send them the link to this lengthy PDF file. Living in one of the most regressive tax states in the union, I feel obligated to share that with the rest of you.
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[laxer]

Mine's like $120, and I can only ride the damn thing 6-8 months a year.

[DubSea Scoots]

I just had the same experience today. I bought my '09 Buddy through someone on Craigslist and now have to pay sales tax on it to transfer the title!!! I'm ok with paying my fair-share of taxes, but find it ridiculous that I have to pay sales tax on a scooter that already had sales tax paid on it. BTW, sales tax here is 9.8%. Lame. Can't wait to see what the registration fees will be...

[charlie55]

I just had the same experience today. I bought my '09 Buddy through someone on Craigslist and now have to pay sales tax on it to transfer the title!!! I'm ok with paying my fair-share of taxes, but find it ridiculous that I have to pay sales tax on a scooter that already had sales tax paid on it. BTW, sales tax here is 9.8%. Lame. Can't wait to see what the registration fees will be...

Yeah, I always get the seller to give me a bill of sale for less than the actual sale amount. Nothing ridiculous (like $1.00), but low enough so that the tax savings help pay for the registration fee. Most of the MVC folks around here wouldn't know a scooter from a doorknob, so as long as its not an obviously fake price they're none the wiser.

[bigbropgo]

Mine's like $120, and I can only ride the damn thing 6-8 months a year.

This is truth! Grrrr

[jijifer]

I just had the same experience today. I bought my '09 Buddy through someone on Craigslist and now have to pay sales tax on it to transfer the title!!! I'm ok with paying my fair-share of taxes, but find it ridiculous that I have to pay sales tax on a scooter that already had sales tax paid on it. BTW, sales tax here is 9.8%. Lame. Can't wait to see what the registration fees will be...

Yeah, I always get the seller to give me a bill of sale for less than the actual sale amount. Nothing ridiculous (like $1.00), but low enough so that the tax savings help pay for the registration fee. Most of the MVC folks around here wouldn't know a scooter from a doorknob, so as long as its not an obviously fake price they're none the wiser.

this, sadly, doesn't fly in Cali - they charge you tax on the blue book value. GAH!

[Edwub]

Isn't that why you mark it as a "gift" on the title? I was...given my last scoot and had it for over two years before I gifted it to somebody on craigslist. Only paid normal registration (~90ish?).

[viney266]

I can top this grump....

My wife and I are avid motorcyclists and when you travel up the east coast the tolls are HIGHER for 2 bikes than in a car

3 bucks for a 3800 car that holds 4 -5. But its 2 bucks a piece per bike..Still 4 tires on the ground, MAYBE 1,000 lbs total and only 2 people..,.Thats 4 bucks please..ALL THE WAY UP THE EAST COAST

5 bucks for car ...$5 PER bike at some...so $10 if we are on 2 bikes...You end up being furious by the end of your ride!

[jijifer]

Isn't that why you mark it as a "gift" on the title? I was...given my last scoot and had it for over two years before I gifted it to somebody on craigslist. Only paid normal registration (~90ish?).

according to the dmv, you're still assessed on the value but i guess I don't know if that means you pay tax. if from a non-family member it requires "Complete a Statement of Facts, indicating the current market value of the vehicle." not sure what that is.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures/howto/htvr3.htm

but hey! if it's saving you tax. awesome. When will the DMV get wise that you've only ever been getting vehicles as gifts and then when will what's the penalty of false info?

[SYMbionic Duo]

well, if you want to move to Mini-snow-da, my tabs are only $16.50

[charlie55]

I just had the same experience today. I bought my '09 Buddy through someone on Craigslist and now have to pay sales tax on it to transfer the title!!! I'm ok with paying my fair-share of taxes, but find it ridiculous that I have to pay sales tax on a scooter that already had sales tax paid on it. BTW, sales tax here is 9.8%. Lame. Can't wait to see what the registration fees will be...

Yeah, I always get the seller to give me a bill of sale for less than the actual sale amount. Nothing ridiculous (like $1.00), but low enough so that the tax savings help pay for the registration fee. Most of the MVC folks around here wouldn't know a scooter from a doorknob, so as long as its not an obviously fake price they're none the wiser.

this, sadly, doesn't fly in Cali - they charge you tax on the blue book value. GAH!

Interesting. Do they actually inspect the vehicle to see which condition category (poor, fair, etc.) it fits?

[Keys]

I am so mad right now, this is just another case of the rich getting richer at the expense of the middle class.

...um, which "richer" would this be? The same ones who take nearly a third of my income to pay for other peoples wants when I only make about 30 grand a year?

--Keys

[jijifer]

Yeah, I always get the seller to give me a bill of sale for less than the actual sale amount. Nothing ridiculous (like $1.00), but low enough so that the tax savings help pay for the registration fee. Most of the MVC folks around here wouldn't know a scooter from a doorknob, so as long as its not an obviously fake price they're none the wiser.

this, sadly, doesn't fly in Cali - they charge you tax on the blue book value. GAH!

Interesting. Do they actually inspect the vehicle to see which condition category (poor, fair, etc.) it fits?

I don't recall how that worked. I just know that the girl gave me a "bill of sale" for $1000 - i paid $2000 and they said the Blue Book was $2300 (it was only 4mos old and how there was a listing, I don't know) so I had to pay tax on the $2300 not the $1000.

[michelle_7728]

I am so mad right now, this is just another case of the rich getting richer at the expense of the middle class.

Interesting...here the government determines the tag amount and the licensing agency just gets a small fee for processing it when you come in...do rich people set the licensing tag amounts where you go?

Just keeping it real.

[michelle_7728]

I am so mad right now, this is just another case of the rich getting richer at the expense of the middle class.

...um, which "richer" would this be? The same ones who take nearly a third of my income to pay for other peoples wants when I only make about 30 grand a year?

--Keys

+1

[SYMbionic Duo]

more like 15% not 33%, if you are paying 33% you are making more like $300k a year.

just sayin

-duo

[SYMbionic Duo]

of course that is just federal, so if you add in the 6.2% for SS and MI you are at 21.2%, then add state and sales tax, you are probably pushing 25%.
course that is if you are single and have no deductions.


-duo

[DubSea Scoots]

this, sadly, doesn't fly in Cali - they charge you tax on the blue book value. GAH!

Interesting. Do they actually inspect the vehicle to see which condition category (poor, fair, etc.) it fits?

I don't recall how that worked. I just know that the girl gave me a "bill of sale" for $1000 - i paid $2000 and they said the Blue Book was $2300 (it was only 4mos old and how there was a listing, I don't know) so I had to pay tax on the $2300 not the $1000.

Seems about right. Here's the scoop in WA: the DOL takes a closer look at "newer" (within the past couple years) vehicle models. I'd have a 50/50 chance of an audit of the sales price. If I'm audited, the DOL will assess sales tax based on the Blue Book value. Not quite sure how they assess the Blue Book condition of the vehicle, though. Maybe they ask their magic 8 ball...

[out18law18]

I am so mad right now, this is just another case of the rich getting richer at the expense of the middle class.

Interesting...here the government determines the tag amount and the licensing agency just gets a small fee for processing it when you come in...do rich people set the licensing tag amounts where you go?

Just keeping it real.

No they dont set the tag amounts but according to the system that someone had to approve, a luxury car is taxed at the same rate as a $1400 scooter = tax break for the wealthy

[PeteH]

Ah, I love the smell of class envy in the morning.

In MO annual licensing is based on brake HP, no matter what the make or price of the bike. Safety inspection required each renewal, and if you live in the STL or KC metro areas, you also pay annual Personal Property Tax, the receipts for which, along with your proof of insurance and inspection report, must be presented at licensing.

Sales tax (state + local), amounting to 8%-10% of the purchase price, is payable when you first title the bike. Bikes <= 49cc don't title, and pay the sales tax at the dealer at point of purchase, I'm pretty sure. Unlike California, the purchaser is responsible for doing his own business at the Dept. of Revenue, rather than the dealer handling it all. Thus, our 'out-the-door' prices are a lot less than states where the dealer handles it.

I think my bi-annual registration amount was < $40 for a two-year tag.

[charlie55]

I am so mad right now, this is just another case of the rich getting richer at the expense of the middle class.

Interesting...here the government determines the tag amount and the licensing agency just gets a small fee for processing it when you come in...do rich people set the licensing tag amounts where you go?

Just keeping it real.

No they dont set the tag amounts but according to the system that someone had to approve, a luxury car is taxed at the same rate as a $1400 scooter = tax break for the wealthy

I know that it looks that way, but with all of the leasing deals around you don't necessarily have to be wealthy to be driving a luxury car. Can't tell you how many folks around here always seem to have two or three late-model high-end rides in their driveways, but are also up to their hair follicles in debt.

My belief is that the registration fee should be the same for all vehicles: basically the amount necessary to recoup the actual cost of the registration process, period. Anything above or below that is a form of, for lack of a better phrase, "social engineering", or, more likely, just the typical self-sustaining bureaucratic agency money-grab. Sorta like toll roads where the revenue collected roughly equals the cost of collecting it.

[jasondavis48108]

Michigan used to charge by vehicle weight since heavier vehicles do more damage to the roads and the fees are supposed to go toward road repairs. Now cars are charged by their MSRP which I don't agree with. If someone has a super lite super expensive vehicle it is doing less damage to the road than a full size pick up truck but they get charged more.

As for motorcycles, it's a flat fee no matter the size or cost of the motorbike. I think it's $23 but if you want state park access then it's $28. So in Michigan it's a very good deal to own a motorbike of some kind

[BootScootin'FireFighter]

I won't complain about Virginia anymore. $25 a year to tag, then a small percentage for "personal property tax", which is chump change for a scooter compared to an Escalade.

What really chaps my ass (I love that expression), is ferry and bridge tolls. Example, East Coast ferries that cost $50 for a car, we have to pay a motorcycle rate of $35. So 2 scoots is much more than a car, and both scoots still take less than half the space! It should be based on size and weight. Seattle has a great ferry system, it costs peanuts to take a scooter and they're the first ones to get off on the other side.

And amusement parks, it just says parking is $12 per vehicle. I'd like to do a group ride to Kings Dominion, but hell no I'm not paying $12 for each scooter, when we can fit at least 5 in one parking space. I've tried calling twice, got two different idiots, and both of them can't understand that concept.

[jprestonian]

I am so mad right now, this is just another case of the rich getting richer at the expense of the middle class.

...um, which "richer" would this be? The same ones who take nearly a third of my income to pay for other peoples wants when I only make about 30 grand a year?

The average Arizonan making $30k/yr. is paying ~11.2% of their income in all taxes, combined. If you're paying a third, you need to fire your accountant.
.

[gunsntexas]

If anyone is interested, State of Texas fees:

ftp://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-inf ... art_1c.pdf

As I have not had to renew and this is my first 2 wheeler, I can only assume from the chart that my cost will be $30.30 plus the Bexar county (pronounced "bear") fee of $11.50, so $41.80 total.

However my scooter was recently downgraded by S&P to be a AA+ scooter so I am not sure how that will affect my registration in the future.

[TVB]

As for motorcycles, it's a flat fee no matter the size or cost of the motorbike. I think it's $23 but if you want state park access then it's $28. So in Michigan it's a very good deal to own a motorbike of some kind

Great new system. Mostly. I paid the extra $10 on my automobile registration for state park access all year. But I don't get to take advantage of that on my scooter (registered two years ago, before this system was in place), which is what I'm taking to all those state parks next week. So I gotta pay again when I get there. The person I talked to on the phone didn't know how much. I'm a bit nervous whether they've even figured out how to apply this new system to three-year "moped" registrations, or whether I'll have to talk it out, with a call to the office in Lansing, at each of the four state parks I'll be visiting.

[Dooglas]

OR and FL had a flat rate of next to nothing, I think, which is why you see so many rentals registered in OR and FL.

Actually the fee for motorcycle/scooter registration in OR is $48 for two years (or $96 for 4 years when you purchase a new vehicle). There is an additional $77 fee to transfer the title as well. I don't know that I call that "next to nothing", but it is certainly true that Oregon does not base the fee on the value of the vehicle - i.e. same registration fee for a Buddy and for a BMW K1600. (to say it a different way - Oregon has no personal property tax or sales tax, instead it has a very high state income tax )

[cdwise]

I just had the same experience today. I bought my '09 Buddy through someone on Craigslist and now have to pay sales tax on it to transfer the title!!! I'm ok with paying my fair-share of taxes, but find it ridiculous that I have to pay sales tax on a scooter that already had sales tax paid on it. BTW, sales tax here is 9.8%. Lame. Can't wait to see what the registration fees will be...

Yeah, I always get the seller to give me a bill of sale for less than the actual sale amount. Nothing ridiculous (like $1.00), but low enough so that the tax savings help pay for the registration fee. Most of the MVC folks around here wouldn't know a scooter from a doorknob, so as long as its not an obviously fake price they're none the wiser.

In Texas it doesn't matter much what the bill of sales says, sales tax is based on their "book" value unless it has a salvage title.

[jmazza]

Friendly moderator reminder:

Our Posting Guidelines prohibit political threads. This one is walking that line so let's stay away from working class rants please!

Discussing about paying a lot of registration fees for our little scooters is generally on the ok side of the line. Getting into the politics behind it or angry rants about it are generally on the wrong side.

I've always found vehicle registration to be one of the potential hidden "gotchas" when moving to a new state. Some years ago, FL had a law that imposed a serious tax/fee (I don't remember the particulars) on every vehicle that was brought into the state to be registered. It made it so you were basically paying the same as you would for buying something new. It was a drag when I moved here. I think it was repealed for some reason or another but it was a huge shock when I first got here!

As for the future of this thread, it's been pretty civil (because Modern Buddy rocks!), but could easily end up ugly and locked!

[jprestonian]

OR and FL had a flat rate of next to nothing, I think, which is why you see so many rentals registered in OR and FL.

Oregon has no personal property tax or sales tax, instead it has a very high state income tax :( )

Overall, Oregon's taxes are a lot flatter and fairer across all income distributions, but you'll note that the poorer folx still pay a larger share of their income than the richer folx.
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[jasondavis48108]

As for motorcycles, it's a flat fee no matter the size or cost of the motorbike. I think it's $23 but if you want state park access then it's $28. So in Michigan it's a very good deal to own a motorbike of some kind

Great new system. Mostly. I paid the extra $10 on my automobile registration for state park access all year. But I don't get to take advantage of that on my scooter (registered two years ago, before this system was in place), which is what I'm taking to all those state parks next week. So I gotta pay again when I get there. The person I talked to on the phone didn't know how much. I'm a bit nervous whether they've even figured out how to apply this new system to three-year "moped" registrations, or whether I'll have to talk it out, with a call to the office in Lansing, at each of the four state parks I'll be visiting.

yup, I love it. I paid the extra $10 for the car and $5 for each scooter. Not sure how it will work for mopeds, maybe since they are kind of treated like bicycles you don't have to pay to extra the park on a moped. I haven't had to re-register my wife's Ruckus yet and the Buddy 50 is now registered as a motorbike so I didn't have any issues this year. Hopefully they have a system in place for mopeds.

[Kaos]

OR and FL had a flat rate of next to nothing, I think, which is why you see so many rentals registered in OR and FL.

Actually the fee for motorcycle/scooter registration in OR is $48 for two years (or $96 for 4 years when you purchase a new vehicle). There is an additional $77 fee to transfer the title as well. I don't know that I call that "next to nothing", but it is certainly true that Oregon does not base the fee on the value of the vehicle - i.e. same registration fee for a Buddy and for a BMW K1600. (to say it a different way - Oregon has no personal property tax or sales tax, instead it has a very high state income tax )

Yep, what Dooglas said. I Did this for my Honda CB-1 just last Friday, paid exactly that.

[still shifting]

If you wanted to be fair (an impossible concept) the tax should be by weight. R

[Skootz Kabootz]

Just paid my 2011-2012 registration here in LA - $83 for a 2009 150cc. I think it was the same last year. But the best news is that my insurance, which is also due for renewal, is down roughly 40% since 2009. I have no idea why other than I've made no claims and I am older and clearly far more sensible, emotionally balanced, wise and restrained now... ya right.

[TVB]

Not sure how it will work for mopeds, maybe since they are kind of treated like bicycles you don't have to pay to extra the park on a moped.

Unfortunately "mopeds" are not treated like bicycles by the DNR. The last two years under the old system I paid the same vehicle-access permit for my scooter that any Hawg-rider did. Don't get me wrong: I like the new system... I'm just not confident that they've thought it all the way through. I think you're familiar enough with the planning and foresight exhibited by our state legislature in recent years to understand my concern. :/

[easy]

I'm in Marion County Tn and I had to pay $18.00 a year for tags and $24 for cars also no sales tax when buying vech from a family member.

[jprestonian]

I'm in Marion County Tn and I had to pay $18.00 a year for tags and $24 for cars also no sales tax when buying vech from a family member.

Yeah; the state is pretty reasonable. I think Davidson County fees are $55/year.
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[jasondavis48108]

I think you're familiar enough with the planning and foresight exhibited by our state legislature in recent years to understand my concern. :/

that says it all for sure!

[Keys]

The average Arizonan making $30k/yr. is paying ~11.2% of their income in all taxes, combined. If you're paying a third, you need to fire your accountant.
.

I'm quite pleased for you that you know what the average Arizonan earning $30K pays here in taxes, etc., but that fact is what it is. I'm single, own nothing and have no deductions. PLUS I've been required to PAY taxes at the end of the year each year for the last 5 years.

And I'd fire my accountant if I could afford one in the first place.

--Keys

[jprestonian]

The average Arizonan making $30k/yr. is paying ~11.2% of their income in all taxes, combined. If you're paying a third, you need to fire your accountant.
.

I'm quite pleased for you that you know what the average Arizonan earning $30K pays here in taxes, etc., but that fact is what it is. I'm single, own nothing and have no deductions. PLUS I've been required to PAY taxes at the end of the year each year for the last 5 years.

And I'd fire my accountant if I could afford one in the first place.

If you're doing it yourself, you could obviously save more money hiring one, is what I'm saying. :) Hey, don't feel bad -- a lot of people overestimate what they pay in taxes. Vastly overestimate, generally.
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[BootScootin'FireFighter]

just got my property tax bill in the mail. It's assessed value by the state is $1260, whatever. I'm not sure how I qualify, either because of size or mpg, but the $80-ish tax fee qualifies for a total subsidy, only have to pay $18 for next years county sticker, along with the $25 registration by the state.