Aprilla SRV850 Sportscooter

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:08 am

So...I wonder if Aprilia will bring that SRV850 to the U.S., though I'm not sure if the general public is ready for this type of scooter. Maybe they'll wait and see how the BMW scooters sell here before making a move. I do know that Yamaha had their Majesty scooter at the motorcycle show, but not the T-Max. I'm not a fan of big touring motorcycles and I don't really like maxi-scooters like the Suzuki Burgman or Yamaha Majesty, but I wouldn't mind a maxi-sport-scooter for the open road. I'd keep a small traditional scooter for riding within the city limits though.

Stormswift · Post by **Stormswift** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:25 am

As with any new scooter my 1st question is how high is the seat?

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:50 am

Stormswift wrote:As with any new scooter my 1st question is how high is the seat?

780mm or 31.2"

For a better look. Anyone understand Italian?
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desmolicious · Post by **desmolicious** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:15 am

k1dude wrote:
desmolicious wrote:[Ahahahahaha!

Sorry, you're serious aren't you?!!

You really should produce this mythical article ....
As the owner of numerous scooters and sport bikes, the scooters do not have a snow balls chance in hell in keeping up with a sport bike with riders of equal ability, on any kind of road.

I've owned and ridden Yam Tmax, Piaggio MP3 500, Stella 4T, Vespa PX, Buddy Black Jack, Vespa GTS 250 and others..

Scooters rock for what they are designed to do. Which is why I own them.
But to pull out claims like that...

Anyway, thanks for the laugh.
And NONE of the scooters you mentioned have one single racing feature put into them. Whereas sportbikes have a century's worth of racing developments put into them. If you put an equivalent amount of engineering into a scooter, a scooter would win EVERY SINGLE TIME.

It's really very simple, it comes down to simple physics. Given two bikes with equal technology, riders, power, and weight, the one with the lower center of gravity will ALWAYS win. A scooter has a FAR lower center of gravity.

If the governing bodies in racing would allow technological development to exceed the rigid standards they set for themselves, the first thing you'd see is lower engines and lower fuel tanks. But no, they won't allow that. Because if they did you'd wind up with a scooter.

Argue all you want. The laws of physics disagree with you. And that's what those racers know that you don't.

Bwahahahahaha!

Ok, hold on a sec while I pull myself together..

What you are saying is if some magical race scooter existed then it would beat sport bikes.
But seeing no-one has built one and it doesn't exist....

Why not just go all the way with this imaginary scooter and say that it has rocket boosters? Or teleports? Has some warp drive system?
That will show sport bike riders!

Seriously, enjoy your scooter. But really...

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:27 am

desmolicious wrote:Bwahahahahaha!

Ok, hold on a sec while I pull myself together..

What you are saying is if some magical race scooter existed then it would beat sport bikes.
But seeing no-one has built one and it doesn't exist....

Why not just go all the way with this imaginary scooter and say that it has rocket boosters? Or teleports? Has some warp drive system?
That will show sport bike riders!

Seriously, enjoy your scooter. But really...

You know, I've been nothing but respectful. You on the otherhand have been dismissive, sarcastic, and disrespectful. You also continue to ignore anything I've posted and insist on insults in response.

The reason you haven't seen a scooter built with race assets is because THEY AREN'T ALLOWED IN MOTORCYCLE RACING. Get it? Why design something for the race track that isn't allowed on the race track?

As a design engineer, I know what I'm talking about. How about you?

I won't respond to anymore of your inane and sophomoric posts. Good day.

desmolicious · Post by **desmolicious** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:37 pm

k1dude wrote:
desmolicious wrote:Bwahahahahaha!

Ok, hold on a sec while I pull myself together..

What you are saying is if some magical race scooter existed then it would beat sport bikes.
But seeing no-one has built one and it doesn't exist....

Why not just go all the way with this imaginary scooter and say that it has rocket boosters? Or teleports? Has some warp drive system?
That will show sport bike riders!

Seriously, enjoy your scooter. But really...
You know, I've been nothing but respectful. You on the otherhand have been dismissive, sarcastic, and disrespectful. You also continue to ignore anything I've posted and insist on insults in response.

The reason you haven't seen a scooter built with race assets is because THEY AREN'T ALLOWED IN MOTORCYCLE RACING. Get it? Why design something for the race track that isn't allowed on the race track?

As a design engineer, I know what I'm talking about. How about you?

I won't respond to anymore of your inane and sophomoric posts. Good day.

I'll miss your insightful comments.

Here's a clue. Scooters are great because they are small and light, and have a low COG because they are small and light.
Now, pay attention here, ever wonder why once scooters try to get big they get so heavy? Like the Tmax which is about 550lbs even though it only makes 40 hp (wow that is going to give a sport bike worries!)
It's because the design of a scooter does not lend itself to speed once power is added.
Here's what happens..
Scooters have crap suspension compared to bikes. It's true, I have both.
Why? Because the engine is attached to the swing arm with shocks that do not have much travel. What does this do? It creates incredible unsprung weight as the suspension needs to deal with the weight of the wheel, the swing arm and the entire motor! Which is truly terrible for handling and suspension action once speeds increase.

So, how do you get around this? Simple, do what motorcycles do, and the Yam Tmax (and new BMW mega scoots) and separate the engine from the swingarm. So attach the engine to a frame, and attach the swingarm to it. And have the suspension attached to the frame (or in the case of the latest Ducati Panigale superbike, use the engine as the frame), thereby reducing unsprung weight to a minimum and allowing the shock to perform at optimal levels.

Hmm, the scooter is starting to look like a motorbike.

Then what.. Oh yeah, you still want it to be a scooter with the corresponding riding position. Guess what? Now that the engine is in a frame, separate from the swingarm the only way you are going to get that foot forward knees together riding position is to lengthen the bike.
Lengthening a bike? But wouldn't that make it physically bigger and heavier? Why yes, it would! And if it is longer you would also need to make the frame bigger as the bike would be less rigid and twist more.
Which means, oh no, it is starting to weigh more.
Is it getting clear now why mega scoots are so heavy?

So what we have now is a long, heavy bike. Which is cool cuz it is for fun and commuting and traveling. Not racing.

Oh, but you still want it to go racing. Well, the next bummer in the list is the longer the wheelbase of a bike, the more it needs to lean to corner at the same rate of speed as a bike with a shorter wheel base i.e. a sport bike. So either you are not going to go around corners as fast, or the seat height needs to increase.
Guess why the seat heights of the mega scoots are so tall? And yet they still do not have the cornering clearance of a sport bike, because you can only make them so tall before no-one outside the NBA can ride them.

So, what we have here is a scoot that is heavier than a sport bike and cannot corner as hard as a sport bike.

Wonder why I haven't even mentioned engine performance? Well, that's because within the current parameters, a chassis that long (because you want it to be a scoot) would have to be beefed up even more to handle more powah.

The closest anyone has got to making a scoot like this was actually Dan Gurney with his Alligator. That actually was a foot forward motorcycle with manual transmission (hmm, less weight?) but it was limited by the fact that that design can not handle a powerful engine within a frame that still creates a light weight bike.

So yeah, it was racing rules that prevented scoots from racing....

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:14 pm

All of your design restrictions and elements are moot points. They can be designed around.

Having the engine on the swingarm just requires a properly designed race tuned suspension to overcome any percieved weaknesses in the design. Length of travel is only critically important for off-road bikes, not on-road. There is plenty enough travel for road racing on scooters.

As far as engine placement, if you actually did want to move it from the swingarm, it could be done easily. You could place it directly over the pivot eliminating any weight affect on the swingarm, or you could frame mount it forward like a motorcycle without any problem. As long as you lower the tank and keep the tranny low, it will still outperform a traditional motorcycle.

Your foot position has nothing to do with being a scooter or not. It just matters if your foot is on a platform. It can be forward, neutral, or back.

Transmissions have nothing to do with being a scooter or not. You can have a CVT or a manual on a scooter. You can have a belt drive, shaft drive, or chain drive on a scooter.

All the design would require is to keep mass low regardless if you have to re-organize all existing components. The configuration is irrelevant as long as it works. Just keep the CG as low as possible and the wheelbase short for handling.

Existing motorcycle restrictions don't allow any re-configuration of major components. It's as if they are trying to eliminate technological progress. But I suspect they know if it's allowed, they'll wind up with racing scooters.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:47 pm

OK guys, lets just let it go. You're never going agree with each other so let's just end it like adults and agree to disagree and continue on the original subject; the Aprilia SRV 850.

Post by **Lostmycage** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:05 pm

babblefish wrote:OK guys, lets just let it go. You're never going agree with each other so let's just end it like adults and agree to disagree and continue on the original subject; the Aprilia SRV 850.

I couldn't agree more or put it better. Don't make me pull out Batman now... I'll do it!

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:11 pm

Lostmycage wrote:
babblefish wrote:OK guys, lets just let it go. You're never going agree with each other so let's just end it like adults and agree to disagree and continue on the original subject; the Aprilia SRV 850.
I couldn't agree more or put it better. Don't make me pull out Batman now... I'll do it!

Oh NO! NOT the Batman again!

Is that available on a t-shirt?

Post by **Lostmycage** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:15 pm

Hah, not to my knowledge, but I imagine you could get it made.

So I wonder how much storage this SRV850 has and how ugly it would be with a trunk (a sadly necessary accessory for commuting). The exhaust looks really plasticy, but I do kinda like it.

I think I'd still end up getting a Mana... you know, cause it's buyable over here, lol.

Post by **jrsjr** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:26 pm

Lostmycage wrote:Hah, not to my knowledge, but I imagine you could get it made.

So I wonder how much storage this SRV850 has and how ugly it would be with a trunk (a sadly necessary accessory for commuting). The exhaust looks really plasticy, but I do kinda like it.

I think I'd still end up getting a Mana... you know, cause it's buyable over here, lol.

Have you priced a Mana at Ultimate Cycle at 8321 Midlothian Tpk? They're practically giving them away. Seriously, go czech their price.

Post by **Lostmycage** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:38 am

jrsjr wrote: Have you priced a Mana at Ultimate Cycle at 8321 Midlothian Tpk? They're practically giving them away. Seriously, go czech their price.

Odd, last time I checked there, they quoted me full MSRP. They're also the ones that refused to service (any service, including maintenance - EASY money for them)my Scarabeo because I didn't buy it from them. I don't go there very often.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:42 am

k1dude wrote:I won't respond to anymore of your inane and sophomoric posts. Good day.

k1dude wrote:All of your design restrictions and elements are moot points. They can be designed around.
<snip>

So, WTG desmo for not being inane or sophomoric in k1dude's eyes for at least one post.

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babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:58 am

You know who's fault it is for starting all of this don't ya? Rsrider, the original OP.

Post by **jrsjr** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:13 am

Lostmycage wrote:
jrsjr wrote: Have you priced a Mana at Ultimate Cycle at 8321 Midlothian Tpk? They're practically giving them away. Seriously, go czech their price.
Odd, last time I checked there, they quoted me full MSRP. They're also the ones that refused to service (any service, including maintenance - EASY money for them)my Scarabeo because I didn't buy it from them. I don't go there very often.

Dang! I can hardly blame you... The last time I was there, they had discount price tags hanging on the Manas, but that was months ago, at least. I just now checked Cycle Trader and it looks like those older model new Manas that were heavily marked down are are gone. Anyway, I don't blame you for not wanting to trade with them after they refused to service Scarebear. That sucks.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:15 am

Lostmycage wrote:<snip>
So I wonder how much storage this SRV850 has and how ugly it would be with a trunk (a sadly necessary accessory for commuting). The exhaust looks really plasticy, but I do kinda like it.

I think I'd still end up getting a Mana... you know, cause it's buyable over here, lol.

I doubt if it has any storage other than maybe a small glove box of some sort. Sidebags and a small topcase might not be a bad idea and wouldn't be any worst looking than the same on a sportbike of which I've seen plenty.

As much as I like the Aprilia, I'd probably go for the Yamaha T-Max if for nothing else the ease of getting spare parts and service. A large sport scooter is very high on my want list for light touring. There are a lot of interesting places to go within 300 miles of San Francisco.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:18 am

Lostmycage wrote:
jrsjr wrote: Have you priced a Mana at Ultimate Cycle at 8321 Midlothian Tpk? They're practically giving them away. Seriously, go czech their price.
Odd, last time I checked there, they quoted me full MSRP. They're also the ones that refused to service (any service, including maintenance - EASY money for them)my Scarabeo because I didn't buy it from them. I don't go there very often.

Aren't service and parts the main source of income for these shops?

Post by **Lostmycage** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:49 am

babblefish wrote:
Lostmycage wrote:
jrsjr wrote: Have you priced a Mana at Ultimate Cycle at 8321 Midlothian Tpk? They're practically giving them away. Seriously, go czech their price.
Odd, last time I checked there, they quoted me full MSRP. They're also the ones that refused to service (any service, including maintenance - EASY money for them)my Scarabeo because I didn't buy it from them. I don't go there very often.
Aren't service and parts the main source of income for these shops?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Truthfully, it's the main reason I haven't gotten a Mana yet. I'd have to go to Fredericksburg or Yorktown for service.

Ultimate Cycles is one of those places that looks down their noses at scooters. So, meh.

Funny part was that the owner told me this when I had stopped by his shop to order the Aprilia windshield from them. He asked me how long I had it and I told him that I had just gotten it. He didn't like the other dealer (understandably) and told me he wouldn't touch it. I asked if he meant warranty or all service and he told me all. I didn't end up buying that windshield from him. Or anything else.

Anyway, for the SRV850, I'm sure you loose out on space under the seat with the frame mounted engine. I'm just curious about how much room you're left with.