Modern Buddy

What is a reasonable amount for a Buddy 125 out the door? The local Charlotte Vespa dealer has some for around $2700 out the door. They also carry Kymco Vitality 125's which I may be interested in. So i guess my questions are--

Good Price for Buddy 125?
Good Price for Kymco 125?
Should I consider a Kymco?

Thanks for your thoughts!

$2700 OTD...probably not...sounds like they are trying to get you emotionally attached to a bike. It will be over $3000.00 new after TTL ect.

So $3000 OTD is about what everyone is paying? I am trying to get a ballpark, unfortunately its not like buying a Toyota Camry where there are 5 dealers to choose from.

I think $2700 is very reasonable. Our Buddies are $2710 OTD, $100 more for the green. This includes tax, prep, plate, shipping, etc.. AZ tax is 8.1%

You're pretty much going to pay MSRP plus whatever taxes, title, etc goes into OTD price in your area.

You might find a sale like this once in while:
http://www.metroscooter.com/scooters.htm

Kymco is supposed to be pretty nice, but most of us have chosen a Buddy and would still choose it again.

It turns out I was incorrect about the otd price of the Buddy 125 at my local Vespa dealer. It was going to come to $3300 out the door. They have a base price of $2599 and then once they add tax, setup, and document fees, it jacks the price up to $3200. Here comes the totally non buddy related story-- So once I heard this, I started looking into the Kymco Agility 125. They got one ready for me to test ride, and I took it for a couple of mile drive. I thought had pretty decent power, getting me close to 60mph. It had a bouncy ride, but the funny part was the seat height. It may not be very tall, but the seat is really wide and limits my ability to put both my feet down flat. The seat is also really contoured for front and back passengers and doesn't really allow you to slide foward or backward much. So once I got back to the dealer, I asked how much to take it home, and he said $2693. I had come prepared with a cashiers check for $2500, and asked him if he would take that. He said "you'll bring the rest by later?". I said nope, thats all I got. Amazingly, they refused and so I offered to come back next weekend and speak to the owner. He will more than likely say no and take pleasure in doing so because he is probably used to people just coming in and plunking down the cash no questions asked. The absolute best part of my morning was after I made the offer, one of the other customers in the store offered up this sage advice-- "My wife and I came in and just paid what they asked. Everyone feels good when that happens". Wow! Are these motorcycle/scooter dealerships aware that the products they sell are wants and not needs?

Yep, OTD here in San Antonio was around $3499 after eveything. It is making me shop around a little. The Bajaj Chetak is the same base price with the $200 rebate...it is calling my name but the dealership is in Ausitn (about 85 miles away). Always a good reason to visit Mom.

Hey BloodBag, I saw your post over at Urban Scootin so I registered over here just to reply.

Those guys came off as total @$$holes when I was in there. The guy just seemed snotty (maybe I was just mad 'cause he tried to tell me that my Met was made in China ) That's more in line with the price he gave me - was it the middle-aged guy, or someone else? They need to set up shop in SouthPark, if they're going to have that kind of "I'm a pretty big deal" attitude....but I don't know, maybe all scooter dealers are like that.

I really would like to buy a Buddy, but I'd like to buy it from somewhere else. Are there any other Genuine dealers near Charlotte? I'm tempted to go to Atlanta just to not deal with them.

Would a dealer drop ship a scooter? (like order straight from the factory and have it shipped to me) We used to do that for customers when I worked at the music store.

Shauggy, I am not sure about drop shipping a scooter, they probably wouldn't honor the warranty if I put it together. The guy I was dealing with was about my age, a guy in his late 20's who was helpful and still had a passion for scooters. The other two middle aged guys were more the kind to help you, but please dont waste our time kind of guys. I heard there is another scooter place in gastonia, but this shop is so close to where I work, it would be hard to justify the drive out of town. I plan on going back down there sometime this week after I get off work and talking to the owner. I simply can't believe that they are selling these things so close to cost. I will definitely post here once I find out what the deal is next week.

Jess, Please chime in!!! What is going on on this board? There used to be a time when bashing dealers and discussing price would have twenty people jump all over you. Is it just me or are long time members fading away? We need to get back to discussing the scoots, mods, mechanics on this board!

Gotta admit, Mr. Perkins, I've kinda stepped back. Too many know-it-alls and not enough fun.

--Keys

Just to let y'all know that there are many good small Buddy dealers out there..... I purchased my 07 Red 125 from "Fun On Wheels" in Frederick, MD. for $2,499 plus $100 dealer prep and freight (normally $200). Then they gave me a discount on accessories I purchased with the bike and threw in a free cover (that fit the bike perfectly!). They asked me to bring the bike back for it's first service at approx. 400 miles at a charge of $70. Since I purchased my Buddy, I have returned to this dealer and purchased a Prima windscreen, 2nd helmet and GS box.....all of which they gave a small discount on.

Another small dealer in Rehoboth Beach, DE,...."Fun in the Sun" sells at list and is easy to work with.

Both dealers carry other brands, but admit Buddy is one of their leading sellers if not the top selling brand!

Jaz, you recommend "Fun on Wheels"? That's good to know. Folks on another board I frequent didn't think much of that shop, but I'm looking for a good shop in/close to the DC area that services Buddies, and Frederick is close enough for me.

Do you know if their mechanics are good?

I am sorry if I have offended anyone with my "dealer bashing and talk of purchase price". I was under the assumption that the dealer was a major component of owning and maintaining a scooter, and that the purchase price discussion was relevant when choosing where to purchase your scooter. After reading the new users e-mail at the top of the general discussion page, I don't think that I have broken any rules or personally attacked anyone (unless the dealer is the moderator of this page). Futhermore, if you look through the 34 pages of discussion, you will see lots of "Dealer screwed me on oil change" and the like. I think it is way more interesting to here peoples real life scooter experiences, whatever they may relate to. If you want to condemn threads like this, then that is fine, but I believe they certainly fall under general discussion.

I agree 100% BloodBag! Scooter owners (especially Genuine owners) are a pretty tight knit crew and I think it is very helpful to share both positive and negative dealership experiences. It would be nice to know if there is a dealer in my area that I should stay away from. That way, I dont have to waste my time or money at a dealer that does not provide good customer service and/or reasonable prices.

I posted a positive review of Riverside Rides in DePere WI after I bought my Black Cat. I was more than pleased with their service and prices and I wanted everyone to know.

On the other hand, I also suggested staying away from Metro Motorcycles in Menasha WI after I had a negative experience there. I thought these reviews would be helpful for someone who is researching scooters in my area.

Scooters are meant to be fun. The last thing someone wants is a negative buying experience or the feeling of being ripped off when they have service.

I say keep up the good work and thanks for being a part of the Genuine community.

cowgirl helmet wrote:Jaz, you recommend "Fun on Wheels"? That's good to know. Folks on another board I frequent didn't think much of that shop, but I'm looking for a good shop in/close to the DC area that services Buddies, and Frederick is close enough for me.

Do you know if their mechanics are good?

cowgirl helmet,..I haven't needed mechanical work from "Fun on Wheels" yet, but I have talked shop with them. Based on these discussions I feel comfortable in letting them work on my scoot. You ought to drop by and visit a bit. They are a family run business. Ask for Tim.

So is it considered rude to try and haggle the price of a scooter? I don't want to sound sarcastic, I'm really asking. The vibe I'm getting from jperkins is that you're supposed to just pay the sticker price plus whatever the dealer adds, no questions asked. Maybe that's just how dealers operate, and BloodBag and I were in the wrong.

Scooter dealers do not operate with the same margins or flexibility as auto dealers. They make more from the relationship- service and accessories- than from the initial purchase. That being said, you are welcome to walk into a dealer with a random dollar amount cashiers check, but they are welcome to turn you down. Did you research the retail prices on these vehicles before you went in? Bad salesmanship is going to bite them in the butt over the long run, but strangers demanding serious markdowns won't help their business either. Many people pay list price because that is what they think the bike is worth. They want their dealer to make money and stay in business so they can service their bike for a good long time. My dealers give me special treatment because I support them.

The MSRP on the scoot is set by Genuine, and the additional costs (tax, dealer prep, etc.) are pretty much the same for every scoot a dealer sells. That's just that. As has been said, unlike auto dealers scooter dealerships do not add a significant markup simply for the purpose of profit. The markup is built into the MSRP.

OTD price varies due to taxes and registration fees (if they apply in your state). The one variable controlled by the dealer is prep fees. Almost all dealers add this for the work of uncrating the scoot, charging and installing the battery, installing mirrors, etc. and checking all the systems to be sure the scoot is ready to ride and that nothing was damaged during shipping. In rare instances, this is waived b the dealer.

So, yeah, haggling over the price of a new scoot is not common. Think of it this way: Would you haggle over the price of a latte at Starbucks? A shirt at the Gap? Why begrudge a dealer for charging the actual price?

Of course there are good dealers and bad, as with any business. I'd give the dealer a chance before jumping to the conclusion that they're bad. After that, consider going elsewhere. Or write to Genuine and let them know about your experience.

Buying out of state, though, can be a major pain in the butt for many reasons (fees, registration problems, etc.). Also, an out of state/area dealer may not ship to an area served by another Genuine dealer.

jazdrmr wrote:cowgirl helmet,..I haven't needed mechanical work from "Fun on Wheels" yet, but I have talked shop with them. Based on these discussions I feel comfortable in letting them work on my scoot. You ought to drop by and visit a bit. They are a family run business. Ask for Tim.

Thanks! Maybe I can either take a trip up there on my Buddy (if I manage to get my M endorsement this week) or convince a scootin' pal to head up there with me (if all I manage to get this week is my learner's permit).

oops... posted message when I ment to start thread...

ericalm wrote:So, yeah, haggling over the price of a new scoot is not common. Think of it this way: Would you haggle over the price of a latte at Starbucks? A shirt at the Gap? Why begrudge a dealer for charging the actual price?

That's a completely different industry, where there's no expectation of being able to work a deal. No, I wouldn't haggle over the price of a latte, just like you wouldn't haggle over the price of a double cheeseburger. But like I said, that's a different industry.

When I bought my guitar, they threw in a case. When I sell an amp, I throw in a cable and a set of strings. When you go buy a car, you work out a price with the sales guy. I thought motorcycles were the same way, so it's a little surprising that scooters aren't. I mean, I guess since it's a "niche" product like Apple Computers, they can charge what they want to and people will pay it. But it does seem weird, I thought M.S.R.P. was suggested retail price, not strict retail price. In the music instrument industry it doesn't work that way, dealer cost is WAY below MSRP, and stuff usually sells for 35% below the retail price, so that probably colored my expectations. Yeah, we also make money on service (string changes, repairs adjustments, etc) and the margin may not be huge on a Gibson electric but working out a deal for the customer is one way to earn someone's business.

But as Paige said, the margins probably are not the same. And scooter dealers don't have the same level of competition to deal with. I'd be very surprised if dealers don't have a decent margin on scooters, (otherwise how would they stay in business) but I could be wrong.

shauggy wrote:In the music instrument industry it doesn't work that way, dealer cost is WAY below MSRP, and stuff usually sells for 35% below the retail price, so that probably colored my expectations. Yeah, we also make money on service (string changes, repairs adjustments, etc) and the margin may not be huge on a Gibson electric but working out a deal for the customer is one way to earn someone's business.

There are a lot of differences between the various industries, as you've said. Personally, I dislike a lot of the fake haggling that goes on when buying instruments, cars, electronics and other things where the retailer essentially artificially inflates the price so they can offer discounts. These are also industries in which the volume of sales is much different than with scooters (at this point) which enables dealers to sacrifice their margins or even sell some items (drumsticks, stands, etc., as you know) at cost or lower as loss leaders.

To me, there's something a little insincere about the whole practice. Maybe it's because I find the act of haggling slightly embarrassing... but it also feels slightly dishonest, like if I hadn't haggled the dealer would have suckered me out of a discount they were perfectly willing to give me had I only sufficiently begged, whined and pleaded.

I do understand why some people might assume that haggling on a scooter price is an acceptable practice and that they might get a deal that way. There's certainly no harm in asking—in fact, it might be quite reasonable to ask for a break if you're buying a scooter, helmet, jacket, etc. all at once from the dealer. At the same time, they shouldn't be angry or strike out at the dealer if they don't get a discount.

I am actually going back to the dealer to speak to the owner about the price of the Kymco. Seeing as how the 2007 Cycle World buyers guide lists the "list price" as $1999.00 ,I don't feel like I am totally out of line with my price. The point about having the cashiers check was to illustrate to the dealer that I wasn't just some guy coming in to waste a Saturday morning. The difference between $2693 and $2500 shouldn't be that big of a deal, and I did tell the guy I would be back for parts and some services. I think that the motorcycle/car industry does have some room for bargaining, and I figure what the heck? You will never know unless you ask. I just don't like the attitude that it is somehow beneath them to accept a lower price.

Hey BloodBag, there's a used Buddy 125 at Twist'n'scoot in Atlanta for $2299. You could rent an SUV to get it and still pay less than $2500.

Dealers: One person finds they suck ass for XYZ reasons. Another person says that they LOVE the same dealer for ABC reasons...it's a good thing to know if multiple people have similar experiences with a dealer. Bad or Good.

Right now, I'm not liking Roseville Vespa. It's not really them just the situation. EVERYONE I know, including those my wife spoke with told us to go there. Sales side, great service and follow up.

Their parts dept and service in my eyes at the moment are a different story.

But that's just me frustrated at my situation.

Purchase price: Sales are sales. This is coming from a salesperson. Sometimes the sticker price is just that. Sometimes there is wiggle room. As stated, there isn't much mark up on the bikes for the shops. Many shops tend to throw in discounted/free accessories/labor in lieu of lowering the sticker price.

It never hurts to ask or try. Just don't get overly miffed if they don't budge on price. Hey, it never hurts to hop over to genuine's website and find other dealers in the area/same state and play them off each other just to see. Again, both entities might remain firm, one might play ball. You never know until you ask.

Rather amazed that a check for $2500 in hand didn't entice them to waive the costs/other fees. Again maybe they couldn't because of title transfer or some other cost/reason.

The difference between $2500 and $2693 is nearly 10% of the MSRP.

paige wrote:The difference between $2500 and $2693 is nearly 10% of the MSRP.

BloodBag said that the list price on it was actually $1999, if that's true then the dealer had already marked it up 30% by adding all those fees, which makes a 10% discount sound very reasonable.

The OTD price of the Buddy that BloodBag was given is 20% more than MSRP.

My dealer in Prescott has an Agility 125 sitting on his lot that is sporting a price tag for $1999. That IS the MSRP on that model. I'd question the dealer who charges more...nicely.

--Keys

I am definitely going to go up to the dealer tomorrow at lunch and see what the deal is. Maybe someone should comission me to do a study into the difference between the "MSRP" price and the out the door price. I would only charge someone $193 for this study. Any takers?

Saw TGB price tags about 11% below MSRP .... and they were 07's

Buddy_wannabe wrote:Saw TGB price tags about 11% below MSRP .... and they were 07's

Um, maybe 'cause dealers are selling Buddys.

Yeah .... saw the TGB cheaper .... still got a Buddy 50 today....

BloodBag wrote:I am definitely going to go up to the dealer tomorrow at lunch and see what the deal is. Maybe someone should comission me to do a study into the difference between the "MSRP" price and the out the door price. I would only charge someone $193 for this study. Any takers?

Ha!

The big variable is dealer prep fees (as I said before, not much they can do about taxes, title & license fees and so on). If anyone is bilking owners by padding prices, this is where it happens. I'm not saying it's wrong to charge them at all, only that anything over a certain amount is probably excessive. So maybe we should do a survey of dealer prep fees. Who wants to call all the Genuine dealers?

Ugh, we need a ModernBuddy intern!

Make sure to ask for a line by line breakdown of the OTD price. Sales tax alone makes a huge difference from location to location. Also, in California we pay registration fees at time of purchase, while in New Jersey they have to go down and do all the paper work themselves.

Well, it looks like this thread is ready to go into the history books--I struck a deal with the Vespa dealer. 2007 Kymco Agility 125 for $2550 out the door. This could only mean one thing-- my tough talk on this board all gets thrown out the window when I am knee deep in new scooters in the showroom. I guess it just goes to show that it doesn't hurt to ask for a discount, and I know I feel better when I look back on the situation. So if you see me riding my scooter, say "there goes the cheap bastard who brings shame upon the scooter community as a whole" and give me a wave(or one finger salute). Peace!

I bought mine last year at the end of the season and was very quickly offered the sale at list price with NO freight or dealer prep added. Just had to pay tax title and registration fees. That saved about $300.00 with no haggling really required. It helps to have a "I can take it or leave it attitude" from the get go so they do not think you are anxious, sort of an impulse buy.

BloodBag wrote:Well, it looks like this thread is ready to go into the history books--I struck a deal with the Vespa dealer. 2007 Kymco Agility 125 for $2550 out the door. This could only mean one thing-- my tough talk on this board all gets thrown out the window when I am knee deep in new scooters in the showroom. I guess it just goes to show that it doesn't hurt to ask for a discount, and I know I feel better when I look back on the situation. So if you see me riding my scooter, say "there goes the cheap bastard who brings shame upon the scooter community as a whole" and give me a wave(or one finger salute). Peace!

Hey Bloodbag you cheap bastard! I may be even cheaper than you. I bought a 2007 Agility in February this year for $2500 OTD, plus a Givi topcase w/light and installation (add about $160). This was in San Francisco too. Funny thing was that a week or so before I bought it I was in checking it out and asked what the lowest OTD cash price he could give it to me for and he told me $2500. When I came back to buy it he said he didn't remember quoting that price and asked me if I got it in writing. I told him no but I distictly remember because it was such a nice round figure. He then repeated that he didn't remember quoting that price but took my word for it and sold me the scooter.
Anyway, it may be a bit late for this advice but I'm now in the market to buy a bigger scooter. I'm about 6'1" and although I thought the Agility fit me better than the Buddy and the Zuma, I now realize I'm a little too tall. The Agility was my first scooter but now I'm ready to move on to a bigger, more comfortable model. I'm considering the Blur but although it was comfortable, I expected it to be faster. I swear my Agility has more off the line pep than the Blur. Anyway, enjoy your new scooter!

BTW, I would really like to know how much dealers mark up the price from their wholesale cost. I always thought MSRP stood for manufacturers suggested retail price too. Anyone here work for a dealership?

Personally, I don't see any problem "haggling" with the dealers over price. I recently bought a Buddy at MSRP plus all the added baggage added on. Two weeks later, I returned to purchase a Blur. Got a price and gave them a price that I'd be happy with.....well, they met my price, AND....beat it by a good $150. Not too many dealers, or business folks for that matter would be that honest. When I went in to cut the check (I truly think it's best to have cash/check ready (no financing)) the final price was LOWER than the price quoted. Being a small business person myself who constantly has to "quote" prices, I truly appreciated the fact they didn't just accept what I was willing to pay. They went a little lower. That's honesty. They could have accepted my "offer" and pocketed the difference.

It's all what it's worth to you. Not how it compares to someone in Kalamazoo.

I've bought both of mine, a Buddy and Blur from Scenic City Scooters in Chattanooga and would recommend them to ANYONE. I appreciate a good small business.....

My rant,
NoogaScooter

wow, all these posts make me feel like i overpaid for mine i paid $2750 from a private party for an 07 Series Italia with 150 miles on it. i also got 2 half-helmet and a chain lock out of it, but it sounds like a lot of people get those things thrown in or at a deeply discounted price when buying new.

un_designer wrote:wow, all these posts make me feel like i overpaid for mine i paid $2750 from a private party for an 07 Series Italia with 150 miles on it. i also got 2 half-helmet and a chain lock out of it, but it sounds like a lot of people get those things thrown in or at a deeply discounted price when buying new.

I don't think you got ripped off. I'd say you probably saved yourself a couple hundred dollars.

Unless my wife haggled...I think we paid sticker price for my Vespa. Don't fret over it. You got a great scoot, with low mileage. 2 helmets and a lock out of it.