Banned scooterjon

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:37 pm

I've banned scooterjon. This is not because he has complaints about Genuine, but due to the confirmation of members' suspicions about him when one of his many IP addresses resolved to a competitor of Genuine. I won't say who, but… aw, screw it, it's Piaggio USA.

I'm not trying to start an anti-Piaggio fracas, brew up conspiracy theories or anything like that. There have been several complaints against scooterjon, including accusations that he might work for Piaggio. But I defended this guy's right to have a problem with Genuine and voice it. I also recently told someone that I occasionally appreciated his comments because they gave us an opportunity to defend the Genuine and tout their policies and record without looking like brown nosers.

Additionally, I felt that it's problematic to ban someone with an anti-Genuine axe to grind without any concrete evidence beyond their frequent pot shots and complaints. In moderator discussions, I'd said that I'm not treating people like trolls simply for having issues or being negative; they have to violate Guidelines or be caught in something duplicitous such as posting under different usernames or, uh, posting from Piaggio USA IP addresses.

Well.

I don't know who this guy is or whether his behaviors here were sanctioned by Piaggio or if they've any awareness of what he's doing. I can't even say for sure that he works for them; he'd previously stated he was in Denver. But his past posts with this information were sufficient evidence to get him banned.

I recently told scooterjon this (and in the past banned a Piaggio/Vespa dealer who I know personally for these reasons): I don't care if you have issues with Genuine or negative opinions. People are free to complain. Valid complaints are constructive. But if someone's primary purpose in coming to MB is to agitate and stir up shit rather than provide or obtain information, seek or provide help, or participate in the community, then they will be banned.

We expect a degree of sincerity and honest intentions when people join the forum. This is a community, and that means a lot to me. A few bad eggs are expected, but IMHO there's no worse betrayal than trying to fool or pull one over on all of us in order to push some agenda or indulge your own craziness.

We're not here to be cheerleaders or blindly promote the company. If someone has a problem with their scooter, we're here to help. We serve owners, all types of scooterists, and anyone sincerely interested in scootering. And I'll even tolerate a few cranks and those with obvious chips on their shoulders.

Just don't pull any crap like this guy unless you want to get banned and publicly outed.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:47 pm

BTW, my primary motivation for posting this here is to let people know to take anything this guys has ever posted with a big ol' grain of dubious salt. He got into too many threads, with replies, quotes, etc. for us to clean it all up.

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:11 pm

All I can say is that I only ran into the dude once and wanted to cyber-beat-him-up

Many +1's to whomever is responsible for the sleuthing that finally got the jackass banned. Good riddance.

And Eric, you're an outstandingly fair admin, for better or worse

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:14 pm

Well done.

This is one of the few scooter-related forums that I frequent in which the mods are able to keep things on an even keel without being wusses or stormtroopers. Even though I'm no longer a part of the Genuine family, I've never been made to feel that way by either the mods or other members. Well, except for those Suzuki guys and their damned Burgmans.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:04 pm

Die scooterjon scum, die!

Wheelz · Post by **Wheelz** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:07 pm

thank you Eric and the all the mods, you guys do a great job for sure.

You know for awhile I had been reading his posts and thinking "Jesus, what is this guys problem?" I believe I even called him on it at least once and never got a response back. It seemed as though when ever somebody would call him on it, he would go away for a little bit, but then randomly chime in with a "genuine is garbage" type comment. And I couldn't figure out how somebody could have a buddy "broken" for so long

mattgordon · Post by **mattgordon** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:27 pm

Unfortunately, there's always someone with an axe to grind in these forums. Every forum I frequent (which is too many

) has someone beating someone's down, or constantly trying to bolster their interests.

Fortunately, people can figure out who pretty quickly and pay appropriate attention to their whining and politicing.

iMoses · Post by **iMoses** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:26 pm

Where's the like button???

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:34 pm

Nice job.

I was thinking that he was indeed starting to get a little ridiculous, and I've only been here since September!

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:48 pm

charlie55 wrote:Well done.

This is one of the few scooter-related forums that I frequent in which the mods are able to keep things on an even keel without being wusses or stormtroopers. Even though I'm no longer a part of the Genuine family, I've never been made to feel that way by either the mods or other members. Well, except for those Suzuki guys and their damned Burgmans.

I guess I haven't been here long enough to run across this character. Obviously, it was no loss.

I sincerely hope Piaggio had nothing to do with this but if so, their effort would be better spent building up their dealer network, and, if the Italian cliche is true, beefing up their parts distribution system as well.

I'm rather a Suzuki fan myself but never owned a Burg. Do you mean individuals or a dedicated Burgman site or a maxi-scooter site?

Tazio · Post by **Tazio** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:57 pm

Good show!

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:09 pm

I wonder whatever happened to his broken red Buddy?

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:10 pm

Southerner wrote:
charlie55 wrote:Well done.

This is one of the few scooter-related forums that I frequent in which the mods are able to keep things on an even keel without being wusses or stormtroopers. Even though I'm no longer a part of the Genuine family, I've never been made to feel that way by either the mods or other members. Well, except for those Suzuki guys and their damned Burgmans.
I guess I haven't been here long enough to run across this character. Obviously, it was no loss.

I sincerely hope Piaggio had nothing to do with this but if so, their effort would be better spent building up their dealer network, and, if the Italian cliche is true, beefing up their parts distribution system as well.

I'm rather a Suzuki fan myself but never owned a Burg. Do you mean individuals or a dedicated Burgman site or a maxi-scooter site?

Just kidding - forgot to add a

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:28 pm

I was just afraid it might have been one of the sites I frequent.

Many maxi-scooterists often do own and/or discuss smaller scoots and many seem to be well-heeled and own several 2-wheelers.

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:52 pm

Southerner wrote:I was just afraid it might have been one of the sites I frequent.

Many maxi-scooterists often do own and/or discuss smaller scoots and many seem to be well-heeled and own several 2-wheelers.

Now that'd be a sight: a Burgie 650 Executive sporting a VersaHaul with a Buddy on it.

Some sites are pretty good, but I just dropped off one (which shall remain nameless) because of late it's been monopolized by some troll and 3 or 4 of his compatriots (or alter egos). For some reason, the mods over there don't much seem to give a rat's a** about it. Frankly though, I'd still be here on MB if all I had in my garage was a riding mower. It's one of the most civil and informative forums (fora?, forii?) I've ever encountered.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:18 am

It's a bit sad the IP came from Vespa USA. I mean, I have been VERY displeased with their modern re-invention of themselves in the US, but to have a troll using company time to slam another company (especially one that started from another company that was one of the few importers for Piaggio parts during the blackout period) is not cool.

Then again, if that is truly the case, Piaggio USA is following with the rest of Italy and making some very bad decisions that could affect them financially. Then again, I don't see Vespa staying in the US much longer to be honest unless the economy REALLY picks up.

mattgordon · Post by **mattgordon** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:36 am

neotrotsky wrote:It's a bit sad the IP came from Vespa USA. I mean, I have been VERY displeased with their modern re-invention of themselves in the US, but to have a troll using company time to slam another company (especially one that started from another company that was one of the few importers for Piaggio parts during the blackout period) is not cool.

Then again, if that is truly the case, Piaggio USA is following with the rest of Italy and making some very bad decisions that could affect them financially. Then again, I don't see Vespa staying in the US much longer to be honest unless the economy REALLY picks up.

There is some bad blood, as one of those companies we all know and love was borne from the spoils of war with another...

My outlook on the future of Piaggio remaining in these United States is relatively bleak as well...and the economy is only PART of their problem, IMO.

Let's hope I'm wrong.

bigbropgo · Post by **bigbropgo** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:40 am

crap. sounds like i missed some fun stuff. MB seems to have a super low count of troll infiltrators. thank

bluebuddygirl · Post by **bluebuddygirl** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:55 am

neotrotsky wrote:It's a bit sad the IP came from Vespa USA. I mean, I have been VERY displeased with their modern re-invention of themselves in the US, but to have a troll using company time to slam another company (especially one that started from another company that was one of the few importers for Piaggio parts during the blackout period) is not cool.

Then again, if that is truly the case, Piaggio USA is following with the rest of Italy and making some very bad decisions that could affect them financially. Then again, I don't see Vespa staying in the US much longer to be honest unless the economy REALLY picks up.

Let's keep in mind, that this is one individual who felt the need to start trouble, and may not be coming from the company itself. Don't meet company bashing with the same attitude. It solves nothing, and it has never been what this forum is about.

Thanks Eric for watching out for the forum. It is always appreciated.

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:01 am

wasn't someone doing the same thing shooed off here before? Is this the same person...or do I remember them trolling on Modernvespa ? I adore my Vespa, but don't have warm fuzzies for corporate Piaggio and sometimes the Vespa only snobs exaust me.

Roose Hurro · Post by **Roose Hurro** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:15 am

Syd wrote:I wonder whatever happened to his broken red Buddy?

Under the circumstances, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a figment of his imagination.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:16 am

bluebuddygirl wrote:
neotrotsky wrote:It's a bit sad the IP came from Vespa USA. I mean, I have been VERY displeased with their modern re-invention of themselves in the US, but to have a troll using company time to slam another company (especially one that started from another company that was one of the few importers for Piaggio parts during the blackout period) is not cool.

Then again, if that is truly the case, Piaggio USA is following with the rest of Italy and making some very bad decisions that could affect them financially. Then again, I don't see Vespa staying in the US much longer to be honest unless the economy REALLY picks up.
Let's keep in mind, that this is one individual who felt the need to start trouble, and may not be coming from the company itself. Don't meet company bashing with the same attitude. It solves nothing, and it has never been what this forum is about.

Thanks Eric for watching out for the forum. It is always appreciated.

Oh, I'm not bashing Piaggio... just it's current management. Obviously I have NO problem with the bikes at all and not a thing I sad was "brand bashing". But, to those of us who ride Vespa it's no secret that we're a little fed up that they really don't care too much about the US market. But, as riders we have a right to question it's management, especially when the bikes are worth putting more effort into! It's just odd that something like this comes out from an employee carrying on these actions and they simply just don't notice. If I did this at my job, I have a feeling any response would lead to an instant termination. Most companies these days are quite aware of bad net press.

Lil Buddy · Post by **Lil Buddy** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:03 am

I miss Kazoo.

izark47 · Post by **izark47** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:07 am

I kind of think it is more of a problem of society not of the company. Not to start a flame war, this is just my opinion. but it seems society in general has lowered it's standards. I grew up in a different time where honor and integrity were really all you had. Deals done on a handshake. Now days, it is completely different. If it is not in writing everything is fair. I personally would not think of disguising my intentions, or my affiliations. If you are honest and have integrity there is no need. I fully expect that the Piaggio company had no knowledge of this act. The company i work for has specific rules against these things, How ever people see our politicians even do this kind of underhanded tactic, and feel it is ok. To me it is not.

I am so glad that we have good MOD's here that watch out for this kind oF stuff. Thanks People!!!

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:15 am

izark47 wrote:I kind of think it is more of a problem of society not of the company. Not to start a flame war, this is just my opinion. but it seems society in general has lowered it's standards. I grew up in a different time where honor and integrity were really all you had. Deals done on a handshake. Now days, it is completely different. If it is not in writing everything is fair. I personally would not think of disguising my intentions, or my affiliations. If you are honest and have integrity there is no need. I fully expect that the Piaggio company had no knowledge of this act. The company i work for has specific rules against these things, How ever people see our politicians even do this kind of underhanded tactic, and feel it is ok. To me it is not.

I am so glad that we have good MOD's here that watch out for this kind oF stuff. Thanks People!!!

That's just a classic case of looking at the past through rose-colored glasses. The "good old days" were just as (if not more) vicious. We're just more aware of it now and news travels faster. The previous generation is no more superior than the current.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:17 am

As I said, we don't know if Piaggio USA knew about this or condoned it. I doubt it, because honestly, this is embarrassing for them.

At the same time, I've no problem with outing the individual, especially since he was careless enough to post from a Piaggio USA IP.

I've been very critical of Piaggio USA on occasion over on ModernVespa (but usually forego talking about them much here). But I've always done it as myself. Some people have said I hate Piaggio. Naw. They're a company. I like a lot of their products—love a few of them—and dislike some of their practices and behaviors. Doesn't make me hate them and I don't have an axe to grind or agenda. I love scootering, they're a big part of it, and I'd love to see them be a better company and serve their owners better.

And their marketing is an embarrassment.

neotrotsky wrote:
izark47 wrote:I kind of think it is more of a problem of society not of the company. Not to start a flame war, this is just my opinion. but it seems society in general has lowered it's standards. I grew up in a different time where honor and integrity were really all you had. Deals done on a handshake. Now days, it is completely different. If it is not in writing everything is fair. I personally would not think of disguising my intentions, or my affiliations. If you are honest and have integrity there is no need. I fully expect that the Piaggio company had no knowledge of this act. The company i work for has specific rules against these things, How ever people see our politicians even do this kind of underhanded tactic, and feel it is ok. To me it is not.

I am so glad that we have good MOD's here that watch out for this kind oF stuff. Thanks People!!!
That's just a classic case of looking at the past through rose-colored glasses. The "good old days" were just as (if not more) vicious. We're just more aware of it now and news travels faster. The previous generation is no more superior than the current.

Oh, we are so not going down the "society is going to the dogs… or is it?" road in another thread! We just did it somewhere else and it wasn't pretty.

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:41 am

I agree that it's kind of sad on Piaggio/Vespa USA's part... but who knows if the company itself knew about it... and who knows if they will or will not find out, or what will happen to "scooterjon" as far as "company policies" go.
I'm happy to be a part of Genuine, especially knowing that they don't resort to the sort of nonsense that ScooterJon did to try and bash the competitor(s).

It's pretty obvious that they (Genuine) are likely to be one of the leaders in scooter sales in the US eventually/fairly soon, and we are all the better for it! They definitely have the idea of what it takes to make it in this economy, and what it takes to keep customers happy and loyal!
Too bad others just don't care enough to follow in their footsteps, it'll be too bad for them in the end!

agrogod · Post by **agrogod** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:34 am

I grew up in Florida, we used to get the occasional "snake in the grass" and by this I mean a real snake slithering through the backyard or swimming in the pool. The shovel was reared and the head removed, unfortunately there are always more snakes.
I did not have any interactions with this scooterjon, but the posts I have seen did come across as very negative and the guy was always very defensive.
What I am trying to say in a very long winded way is thanks for removing the head.

izark47 · Post by **izark47** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:55 am

ericalm wrote:As I said, we don't know if Piaggio USA knew about this or condoned it. I doubt it, because honestly, this is embarrassing for them.

At the same time, I've no problem with outing the individual, especially since he was careless enough to post from a Piaggio USA IP.

I've been very critical of Piaggio USA on occasion over on ModernVespa (but usually forego talking about them much here). But I've always done it as myself. Some people have said I hate Piaggio. Naw. They're a company. I like a lot of their products—love a few of them—and dislike some of their practices and behaviors. Doesn't make me hate them and I don't have an axe to grind or agenda. I love scootering, they're a big part of it, and I'd love to see them be a better company and serve their owners better.

And their marketing is an embarrassment.

neotrotsky wrote:
izark47 wrote:I kind of think it is more of a problem of society not of the company. Not to start a flame war, this is just my opinion. but it seems society in general has lowered it's standards. I grew up in a different time where honor and integrity were really all you had. Deals done on a handshake. Now days, it is completely different. If it is not in writing everything is fair. I personally would not think of disguising my intentions, or my affiliations. If you are honest and have integrity there is no need. I fully expect that the Piaggio company had no knowledge of this act. The company i work for has specific rules against these things, How ever people see our politicians even do this kind of underhanded tactic, and feel it is ok. To me it is not.

I am so glad that we have good MOD's here that watch out for this kind oF stuff. Thanks People!!!
That's just a classic case of looking at the past through rose-colored glasses. The "good old days" were just as (if not more) vicious. We're just more aware of it now and news travels faster. The previous generation is no more superior than the current.
Oh, we are so not going down the "society is going to the dogs… or is it?" road in another thread! We just did it somewhere else and it wasn't pretty.

Fair Enough, as i said it was just my opinion...and thanks again for good modding!!

Post by **jmazza** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:22 pm

Lil Buddy wrote:I miss Kazoo.

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:51 pm

jmazza wrote:
Lil Buddy wrote:I miss Kazoo.

Yikes! I bet you also miss dentistry before the invention of novocaine.

teabow1 · Post by **teabow1** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:59 pm

neotrotsky wrote:Then again, if that is truly the case, Piaggio USA is following with the rest of Italy and making some very bad decisions that could affect them financially. Then again, I don't see Vespa staying in the US much longer to be honest unless the economy REALLY picks up.

That's too bad. I have me eye on a Piaggio MP3 for some future purchase over a car. I first encounter those in Paris and think it might be a very viable alternative for a two person family. My husband has a car (and bicycle). I only have a bicycle and there's no reason we need another car in the family.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:34 pm

I have to doubt that Piaggio US had a hand in scooterjon's postings. If it did, it was the lamest attempt at brand damage imaginable. One guy, with such an obvious axe to grind, is pretty unlikely to have an effect on MB, let alone Genuine. If anything, the existence of the occasional scooterjon is the exception that proves the rule of the Buddy's (and MB's) quality.

More likely, scooterjon is a Vespa fanboy who decided on his own he could help out the boss, as it were.

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:18 pm

More likely, scooterjon is a Vespa fanboy who decided on his own he could help out the boss, as it were.

Anything's possible in cases like this. If he was really clever and had an axe to grind with Piaggio, he apparently succeeded.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:26 pm

gt1000 wrote:
More likely, scooterjon is a Vespa fanboy who decided on his own he could help out the boss, as it were.
Anything's possible in cases like this. If he was really clever and had an axe to grind with Piaggio, he apparently succeeded.

Ooo, devious! Maybe he is a soon to be laid-off disgruntled employee. Nice.

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:39 pm

I went back through the general discussion area a few pages and didn't run across any thread he originated so, as I thought, he must have been pretty much gone before I got here.

Imagine. A mole in MB.

Not a vole.

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm968014848/tt1634122

I actually took my son to see this. We were the only two people in the whole theater.

Alexbv200 · Post by **Alexbv200** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:09 pm

neotrotsky wrote:It's a bit sad the IP came from Vespa USA. I mean, I have been VERY displeased with their modern re-invention of themselves in the US, but to have a troll using company time to slam another company (especially one that started from another company that was one of the few importers for Piaggio parts during the blackout period) is not cool.

Then again, if that is truly the case, Piaggio USA is following with the rest of Italy and making some very bad decisions that could affect them financially. Then again, I don't see Vespa staying in the US much longer to be honest unless the economy REALLY picks up.

????
Vespa will have its best year in the States in 2011 since 2008!
Sure there are some left over bikes at the warehouse, but any new 2011-2012 models are all pretty much sold out at the warehouse!
I know I am currently out of GTS/ GTV models until January and my inventory of LX 150 I.E is very slim as well.
MP3s are doing well with the promotion as well; BV 300 are sold out.
BV 500s are still plenty available.
Flys are in short supplies and Typhoons are already sold out.

Aprilia motorcycles are doing pretty damn well this year too.

I think they will be doing just fine!

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:16 pm

I wish that success in the U. S. would be shared by Moto Guzzi as well.

Alexbv200 · Post by **Alexbv200** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:34 pm

Southerner wrote:I wish that success in the U. S. would be shared by Moto Guzzi as well.

Some bikes are doing better than others.
That new V7 Classic is just... stunning!

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:40 pm

Alexbv200 wrote:Vespa will have its best year in the States in 2011 since 2008!

So will everyone else!

Alexbv200 · Post by **Alexbv200** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:48 pm

ericalm wrote:
Alexbv200 wrote:Vespa will have its best year in the States in 2011 since 2008!
So will everyone else!

Exactly!!!

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:51 pm

Love the V7 but my absolute favorite is the California Vintage. Everything about it is just right.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:22 pm

We're straying wayyyyy off topic here and getting into some things that are interesting and worth discussing outside this thread, so I'm locking it. No more need to discuss the incident.