Replacing a Blackjack

SoCalScooter · Post by **SoCalScooter** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:53 am

So my mangled Blackjack is being towed down to Motorsport Vespa (aka scooterwest) for assessment/estimate purposes for State Farm. I am reasonably certain the bike is going to be considered totaled for insurance purposes. So, assuming this is the case, I'm in the market to replace my Blackjack.

I have a 30 mile round trip commute, which is 88% of what I use the scoot for. about 50% of the distance has a 55 mph speed limit (with a one mile section at 60mph limit). While I really love the Budy, the 10 inch wheels are a bit small for my taste at speeds over 50.

so, shopping around the area, the available scooters would be:

Sym HD 200 Evo /Kymco Like 200i / Yeager 200 / People 200 / Genuine Blur

Or I could go with a bigger scoot to take the highways on occasion - Those options would be the BV 300 / Kymco Xciting 250 / Vespa GTS 300 / People 250...

I am leaning toward the Beverly or the Xciting for occasional highway use. Anyone have any experiences or advice? Any scoots I'm missing? If the Xciting is sized like a Burgman, I'll pass... the Beverly is about as close to a maxiscoot as I'd be willing to get.

Price is an object, but if I get a healthy check from State Farm, I'd be willing to buy up to a GTS price level and pay the balance off with my tax refund.

So please, comment, advise and critique (just not my spelling!).

Thanks,
-Brian

SoCalScooter · Post by **SoCalScooter** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:26 am

Just got a call from Motorsport Vespa... they are pretty sure it's totaled - the frame is bent and there are significant engine components to be replaced...

Raiderfn311 · Post by **Raiderfn311** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:33 am

Well, the GTS 300 Super is my dream scoot, so that would be my first choice. Second choice, and a total different style, is the Blur220i. Sucks about the Blackjack, but the upside is going on a scooter hunt! Great upside. I also like the Sym 200evo, but I have heard bad things about obtaining parts. Keep us posted and good luck.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:34 am

Why not go with a Buddy 170i? Unless you're not interested in a smallframe any longer that is.

Raiderfn311 · Post by **Raiderfn311** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:41 am

neotrotsky wrote:Why not go with a Buddy 170i? Unless you're not interested in a smallframe any longer that is.

He doesnt like the 10 inch wheels at 50+

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:52 am

I've been riding a GTS250 for several days, including a long haul to Long Beach and back. Going bigger isn't necessarily going better. It's a great scooter but certainly nowhere near as spirited and fun to ride as a BlackJack!

The Xciting is BIG. Not quite Burgman big, but BIG.

Raiderfn311 · Post by **Raiderfn311** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:04 am

Thats very interesting Eric. I have heard you say before you like the 150ish scooters best. That "spirited" ride is WHY I ride!

SoCalScooter · Post by **SoCalScooter** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:10 am

Raiderfn311 wrote:
neotrotsky wrote:Why not go with a Buddy 170i? Unless you're not interested in a smallframe any longer that is.
He doesnt like the 10 inch wheels at 50+

Yeah, essentially that... I do REALLY love the oxford green though, and based on the size of the check, it might put the Buddy 170 in the running

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:22 am

As a former GTS250ie owner myself, I do have to agree that they aren't as nimble as I wish they were. The engine is great (until it has a critical failure, and then good luck getting a new engine for it from Piaggio or anyone else) and it looks fantastic, but it's a bit portly and even with the bigger wheels, it's not as maneuverable. As an inner-city freeway scooter, it's fantastic with good acceleration and a solid feel @ 65 to 70mph, but a Buddy, LX 150/50 or a Stella/P-series ridden by an experienced rider will eat the GTS for lunch in dense traffic downtown.

So, if you do longer distance commutes or do any form of expressway or freeway riding, the GTS is the bike for you. Dense commuting or inner-city riding? Smaller frames are better (in my opinion)

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:28 am

Well, I'm a bit different in my thinking than a lot of owners. Most will advise getting the biggest displacement model you can for your money. I favor getting the smallest one you can that will do what you need and want it to.

The GTS is unquestionably a solid and well made scoot. It handles well, but feels big. The seat's uncomfortable. I find the gauges hard to read. The stock acceleration is good, but overall, riding this just isn't as fun and exciting to me as a Buddy, LX or Stella. The ride is SO smooth that it feels like Piaggio engineered a lot of the fun out of it.

On the freeway, it's okay, but riding on the freeway is rarely fun.

I can't remember if I posted all of this in another thread earlier, ha. I may have. I'm having forum deja vu!

Roose Hurro · Post by **Roose Hurro** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:02 am

From just siting on the Vespas, I find the LX/S 150 to be the perfect size/weight for me. If I want more oomph (speedwise), a 190 kit and an upgear mod, and I'd be set.

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:07 am

SoCalScooter wrote:
Raiderfn311 wrote:
neotrotsky wrote:Why not go with a Buddy 170i? Unless you're not interested in a smallframe any longer that is.
He doesnt like the 10 inch wheels at 50+
Yeah, essentially that... I do REALLY love the oxford green though, and based on the size of the check, it might put the Buddy 170 in the running

For what it's worth, I have a 170i and also commute on a 30mile round trip to work, 5 days out of the week, plus whatever other driving I do.

The route I drive consists basically of two halves- the first half is a 45mph road that everybody goes 50 on (when it isn't morning rush hour), and the second half is a 45mph road that everybody paces 50+ on, because about 5 miles past my gas station the road jumps to 55mph speed limit going out of town. I don't have riding experience on a bigger bike to compare to, but I have no qualms with my 170 on this route.

Sometimes, I even go a different way home and take I-64- on weekdays at midnight nobody is on it to bother me, and the speed limit on it going through the city is technically 55. Not ideal on the light-framed Buddy, but it's quick and gets me there

teabow1 · Post by **teabow1** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:13 am

ericalm wrote:Well, I'm a bit different in my thinking than a lot of owners. Most will advise getting the biggest displacement model you can for your money. I favor getting the smallest one you can that will do what you need and want it to.

I'm with you, ericalm. For me, the rationale is wanting to get the best mileage possible given the contexts that I need to use the scooter.

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:19 pm

ericalm wrote:Well, I'm a bit different in my thinking than a lot of owners. Most will advise getting the biggest displacement model you can for your money. I favor getting the smallest one you can that will do what you need and want it to.

to this. My RV-250 is kind of like the larger Vespas. It isn't nearly so much fun to ride. It does get me long distances faster than my Buddy or my Stella can though. Right tool for the right job, I guess.

Howard

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:10 pm

Yeah, I like the green 170i ,too. Sweet lookin scoot. I have yet to ride a 170 , but that has to be in the running, even with the small wheels.

I may have a different perspective being a long time (38 years) motorcycle rider. I have ridden a 400 and 650 burgman and a 500cc kymco. They are nice big comfy couches (especially the 650 and 500 ), but they isolate me from the ride TOO MUCH. If I want to go that fast I have a 650 and a 1200 motorcycle in the garage that work WAY BETTER. I like the small 125 buddy, P200, Stella kinda thing. Fun to ride, and well...fun to ride sums it all up for me.

I've ridden a blur200 and like the handling and power quite a bit ( needs a better rear shock), never ridden a BV, but they would be in the running ,too. And the GTS300 looks like it might be the ticket IF you want something that big.

Also?? How bought a used BJ, or a 220 blur?

SoCalScooter · Post by **SoCalScooter** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:04 pm

viney266 wrote:Yeah, I like the green 170i ,too. Sweet lookin scoot. I have yet to ride a 170 , but that has to be in the running, even with the small wheels.

I may have a different perspective being a long time (38 years) motorcycle rider. I have ridden a 400 and 650 burgman and a 500cc kymco. They are nice big comfy couches (especially the 650 and 500 ), but they isolate me from the ride TOO MUCH. If I want to go that fast I have a 650 and a 1200 motorcycle in the garage that work WAY BETTER. I like the small 125 buddy, P200, Stella kinda thing. Fun to ride, and well...fun to ride sums it all up for me.

I've ridden a blur200 and like the handling and power quite a bit ( needs a better rear shock), never ridden a BV, but they would be in the running ,too. And the GTS300 looks like it might be the ticket IF you want something that big.

Also?? How bought a used BJ, or a 220 blur?

I've been looking on craigslist and cycletrader for a used BJ to no avail. I found a new one up in Thousand Oaks, CA, but with shipping, it would run me over $5,000, OTD (which is hopefully more leverage for me to use with the other drivers insurance company).

I have never ridden on a Blur, but I do plan on getting a feel for it before I make a final decision. I kind of have a soft spot in my heart for the Beverly for some reason, but I have a feeling I'd get buyer's remorse when the new BV350 hits the streets next spring.

I have been bored as heck sitting round the house today and have been looking at various Kymco models - Yeager, P150, P250S, P300GT; Downtown 300... I might have to compare the blur vs. these and the BV300.

In regards to Eric's comments re: smallest displacement suitable for intended usage, I agree wholeheartedly. That was a big reason I went with the Buddy in the first place (plus, the BJ is just cool). I think the Yeager 200 (170-ish really) might fit the bill in this category, plus it has larger wheels than a Buddy 170 which should make it more stable at higher speeds. However, the Yeager REALLY looks funky. I might grow to love it, but I wish it looked more like an HD200.

Thanks everyone for your insights. I appreciate you humoring me while I bum around the house on narcotics!

SoCalScooter · Post by **SoCalScooter** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:47 am

On a side note, since the Black Jack is totaled (frame/engine), what's the likelihood that I can salvage/scavenge the suspension and breaks to put on my Italia? Any reason the insurance co would frown on this? Anything aside from these I should consider? The BJ had the stock exhaust on it when it was wrecked. So the prima pipe is boxed up safe in my closet.

Thanks,
-Brian

jijifer · Post by **jijifer** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:13 am

SoCalScooter wrote:On a side note, since the Black Jack is totaled (frame/engine), what's the likelihood that I can salvage/scavenge the suspension and breaks to put on my Italia? Any reason the insurance co would frown on this? Anything aside from these I should consider? The BJ had the stock exhaust on it when it was wrecked. So the prima pipe is boxed up safe in my closet.

Thanks,
-Brian

When insurance pays for the totaled bike, they've bought the bike and all it's parts. so you can't part it out and get paid for it all. Usually the shop buys the bike from the insurance company cheap. You could do the same OR just ask the shop to buy back the bits you want but you can't, legally, take those parts AND get paid for a "totaled" bike. Motorsports is fair they'll work with you but also do it legally.

churroe · Post by **churroe** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:22 am

i have the 170i and commute 20 miles round trip. going 55 mph is fine, but anything over that is stressing the scoot.

also, mine's green and i got it from scooter west; so please don't go robbing any banks and framing me, yeah? thanks in advance.

the 170i is awesome btw (but sketchy on the freeway)

Raiderfn311 · Post by **Raiderfn311** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:34 am

SoCalScooter wrote:On a side note, since the Black Jack is totaled (frame/engine), what's the likelihood that I can salvage/scavenge the suspension and breaks to put on my Italia? Any reason the insurance co would frown on this? Anything aside from these I should consider? The BJ had the stock exhaust on it when it was wrecked. So the prima pipe is boxed up safe in my closet.

Thanks,
-Brian

Just swap out the suspension and front brake.

Nah not a good idea. The shop that buys the totalled bike would notice. I DO like the idea.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:42 am

SoCalScooter wrote:On a side note, since the Black Jack is totaled (frame/engine), what's the likelihood that I can salvage/scavenge the suspension and breaks to put on my Italia? Any reason the insurance co would frown on this? Anything aside from these I should consider? The BJ had the stock exhaust on it when it was wrecked. So the prima pipe is boxed up safe in my closet.

Thanks,
-Brian

^^^^ Usually when a vehicle is totalled you can buy it back for 10 or 20% of the totalled value. Just check with the insurance company. This is normal.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:43 am

viney266 wrote:
SoCalScooter wrote:On a side note, since the Black Jack is totaled (frame/engine), what's the likelihood that I can salvage/scavenge the suspension and breaks to put on my Italia? Any reason the insurance co would frown on this? Anything aside from these I should consider? The BJ had the stock exhaust on it when it was wrecked. So the prima pipe is boxed up safe in my closet.

Thanks,
-Brian
^^^^ Usually when a vehicle is totalled you can buy it back for 10 or 20% of the totalled value. Just check with the insurance company. This is normal.

Depends on what state you live in and the insurance company. I was able to buy back my totaled Stella but not the Buddy I totaled in '06. The Stella was $500.

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:38 am

Just my 2 cents about the two topics:

1. Here in Washington state, my scooter was "totaled" (even though the frame wasn't bent) back in July"ish" of 2009. A month or so later I got a check from the other person's insurance company for the property damage settlement part of the claim, and I was then able to buy back my scooter from the insurance company (for around $400, if I'm recalling correctly). I then spent another $400 or so to fix it back up, and relicensed it (even though it does say salvage on the title). That was over 4,000 miles ago, and it's still running strong. I know your situation is a bit different...that your frame is bent, but I don't see why you could not buy back your scooter and part it out, or use the parts yourself, where applicable.

2. Seeing as how you mentioned that you have another Buddy to ride, you might want to consider buying something with a bigger footprint and bigger engine for your freeway commute as it is 88% of your riding. Have you considered an MP3? I would consider the 250cc version a bit underpowered for 60 miles an hour (sure, it will do it...can even do 70+...but not with any great pickup), but maybe the 400 would work for you. I bought the MP3 500 and love it. I still have my Buddy--which, frankly I enjoy riding a little more than the MP3--but I do enjoy riding the MP3 as well. It has a TON of storage space (the 250 and 400cc versions more so than the 500) especially with a nice sized top case, you are more visible to cars since you are a "bigger footprint" (not to mention "an unusual looking" scooter which definitely grabs their attention), and you would have added pep on the freeway, which is nice to have if you need to move out of the way of some whacko in a hurry. They are incredibly stable at speed and in panic stops (I've slid on mine a time or two..even in the rain...in a panic stop, but I slid straight ahead...and didn't go down, like I did in the panic stop on my Buddy a couple of years ago). And it is really nice to lock the suspension and wheel the bike around the garage or in and out of a parking spot.

...And it would give you some variety in your riding, which can sometimes be nice.

Anyway, again, just my 2 cents since you have such a long freeway commute and have another Buddy already.

Good luck!

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:38 pm

michelle_7728 wrote:
2. Seeing as how you mentioned that you have another Buddy to ride, you might want to consider buying something with a bigger footprint and bigger engine for your freeway commute as it is 88% of your riding. Have you considered an MP3? I would consider the 250cc version a bit underpowered for 60 miles an hour (sure, it will do it...can even do 70+...but not with any great pickup), but maybe the 400 would work for you.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of the MP3, but it seems to me that there's no good reason something that expensive with 250cc should be sluggish on pickup or underpowered at 60mph. With half as much money and more on target with budget, he could get a 170i that will do 60mph just fine, sans the issue of being very light (which some don't like), or a Blur 220. With 2 or 3 K less than a MP3 250 (never mind the 400 or 500) he could get a GTS 300. And those are just Genuine and Vespa examples.

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:06 pm

If I may interject, if the small wheels are a problem and you don't necessarily want higher displacement, what about the 150cc Honda? It's said to be the biggest seller in Italy and I think, all Europe.

It's not cheap but neither are the Italian bikes.

Being a Honda, it should be stone reliable and service and parts should be no problem. I understand this is an issue with all things Italian.

Liquid cooling could be looked at as more complexity but it also means you should be able to cruise or idle in traffic without overheating.

It seems the better workaday choice but then, it looks "workaday."

Although, if I'm honest, my preference would be the Blur.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:46 pm

The problems with parting out a scooter to sell the parts are time and labor. If you do it yourself, pull the parts, clean them, post them on eBay or whatever, handle the sale, pack them up and mail them, then it might be worth it. If you need a mechanic to do the labor, it might not be.

The single most desirable and valuable chunk is the engine. With that trashed, you could expend a lot of time and effort dealing with smaller bits and pieces. In the end, it may not be worth your time unless some of the bigger-ticket items are still salvageable.

atlantaM3 · Post by **atlantaM3** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:34 pm

We have a 170i and an Aprilia SportCity 250. For what you are talking about I would look hard at the SC or the Beverly. I do a similar commute and the 170 get squirrely past about 50 while the Aprilia is solid all the way to it's 80 mph top speed. It does really well in the low speed stuff too.

SoCalScooter · Post by **SoCalScooter** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:22 pm

Here is a link to the route...

http://g.co/maps/we3kr

Only a brief section of the Highway 101 is over 50mph, but every portion after that is at 45+ and even 60 on Via Sorrento Parkway. There are a few twisty roads (El Camino Real mainly) which make me a bit nervous over 50, and especially when it's been raining these past few days.

I think right now, these are my options in order of preference: Genuine Blur 220, Kymco's People 250S, People 300GT (if available), a BV 300 (if available), or a Used Vespa GTS200/250/300 should I be lucky enough to find one available. Of course, I've never ridden on any of these scoots before, so I might be looking at a SportCity or Sarabeo too!

I'm almost considering sucking it up and waiting for the BV350 to be sold, but I really don't think I can sit in rush hour traffic on the I-5 in my VW for that many months without going crazy!

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:54 pm

Of course, I've never ridden on any of these scoots before, so I might be looking at a SportCity or Sarabeo too!

As far as I'm concerned, you're unable to answer your question until you ride the candidates. Only then will you have an accurate measure of how much nimbleness you're giving up if you wind up moving to a larger frame.

For me, the answer was easy and precisely why I'm currently putting far more miles on my GTS than my Buddy. Do I give up some "flickability"? Yeah, but not much. And the tradeoff is a much more stable and plush suspension. I like the Blur as well but not the Kymcos, but that's a personal thing.

Ride 'em all, preferably under conditions similar to your commute. I'll bet your decision becomes much clearer once you've test ridden everything.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:24 pm

SoCalScooter wrote:Here is a link to the route...

http://g.co/maps/we3kr

Only a brief section of the Highway 101 is over 50mph, but every portion after that is at 45+ and even 60 on Via Sorrento Parkway. There are a few twisty roads (El Camino Real mainly) which make me a bit nervous over 50, and especially when it's been raining these past few days.

I think right now, these are my options in order of preference: Genuine Blur 220, Kymco's People 250S, People 300GT (if available), a BV 300 (if available), or a Used Vespa GTS200/250/300 should I be lucky enough to find one available. Of course, I've never ridden on any of these scoots before, so I might be looking at a SportCity or Sarabeo too!

I'm almost considering sucking it up and waiting for the BV350 to be sold, but I really don't think I can sit in rush hour traffic on the I-5 in my VW for that many months without going crazy!

Somebody's gotta mention it: I put a vote in for the SYM HD200 EVO. I think that unless it is too big for you (and that is NOT a roundabout way to say it's to much bike for you, little man). You'd be hard pressed to do better. And SYM has dropped their prices from '06, '07 when they were priced like Hondas.

Raiderfn311 · Post by **Raiderfn311** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:40 pm

Syd my man, I put a vote in earlier(kinda) for the Sym. I just noted parts may be hard to come by. If not for that, its a great deal and I would probably buy one. The performance is great! And I think Ive heard Sym has built motors for Honda at some point. I think they were the v-4's that honda put in the Magna's, Sabre's, and Vectors. My dad had a 1984 V65 magna(1100cc cruiser) and that thing could turn sub 12 second 1/4 miles. If not for the parts issue, you would be preaching to the choir, so to speak.

Chessy1 · Post by **Chessy1** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:52 pm

If you are considering Sym's, why not look at the CityCom as it's a bigger 263cc that has a few vocal owners who really like them. It would be great for your commute. Also, there are a few dealers out there who have leftover 2009's for right at $3000 OTD and that comes with a 2-year warranty (you would only need to add shipping to your location and taxes when you register). I would have gone that route, but a low miles (600) 2008 Burgman 400 fell into my lap for the same price (BTW, my little Honda Elite 110 is still a lot more fun, but regulates me to a small geographic footprint).

BTW, I had talked to this dealer in the past (about 3 months back) and if you look at there site, they have leftover HD200's for $2,295.

http://www.waskosauto.com/waskos-scooters/scooters.html

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:52 am

LunaP wrote:
michelle_7728 wrote:
2. Seeing as how you mentioned that you have another Buddy to ride, you might want to consider buying something with a bigger footprint and bigger engine for your freeway commute as it is 88% of your riding. Have you considered an MP3? I would consider the 250cc version a bit underpowered for 60 miles an hour (sure, it will do it...can even do 70+...but not with any great pickup), but maybe the 400 would work for you.
Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of the MP3, but it seems to me that there's no good reason something that expensive with 250cc should be sluggish on pickup or underpowered at 60mph. With half as much money and more on target with budget, he could get a 170i that will do 60mph just fine, sans the issue of being very light (which some don't like), or a Blur 220. With 2 or 3 K less than a MP3 250 (never mind the 400 or 500) he could get a GTS 300. And those are just Genuine and Vespa examples.

This is just me responding to your comments, as it does not appear that the MP3 is one of the scooters he is considering.

The MP3 is much more stable at 60 than a Buddy. How can it not be, with 3 wheels? I can get my MP3 250 up to, and a bit beyond 70 but it is a much slower process, obviously, than my 500. Personally, at 60mph, I prefer to have a lot of get up and go available should it be needed. Much as I love Buddy's, can you honestly say that you can zoom from 60 - 70 in a couple of seconds to get out of the way if you need to? Correct, IMO the 250 is a slug at 60-70...all I can think is that it's because it's wider and has more wind drag than a normal motorcycle. Who knows.

As to price, if you buy new they are having some good deals right now...probably less $$ than you quoted, however, given that many people buy scooters, then don't ride them, and the economy being the way it is, I'm guessing that an MP3 can be picked up with low mileage for a very reasonable price used. And to reiterate, they are very stable in the rain. My 500 feels "planted" on the freeway doing 70...but then he doesn't want something that big, so "never mind"!

SoCalScooter · Post by **SoCalScooter** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:22 am

michelle_7728 wrote:
LunaP wrote:
michelle_7728 wrote:
2. Seeing as how you mentioned that you have another Buddy to ride, you might want to consider buying something with a bigger footprint and bigger engine for your freeway commute as it is 88% of your riding. Have you considered an MP3? I would consider the 250cc version a bit underpowered for 60 miles an hour (sure, it will do it...can even do 70+...but not with any great pickup), but maybe the 400 would work for you.
Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of the MP3, but it seems to me that there's no good reason something that expensive with 250cc should be sluggish on pickup or underpowered at 60mph. With half as much money and more on target with budget, he could get a 170i that will do 60mph just fine, sans the issue of being very light (which some don't like), or a Blur 220. With 2 or 3 K less than a MP3 250 (never mind the 400 or 500) he could get a GTS 300. And those are just Genuine and Vespa examples.
This is just me responding to your comments, as it does not appear that the MP3 is one of the scooters he is considering.

The MP3 is much more stable at 60 than a Buddy. How can it not be, with 3 wheels? I can get my MP3 250 up to, and a bit beyond 70 but it is a much slower process, obviously, than my 500. Personally, at 60mph, I prefer to have a lot of get up and go available should it be needed. Much as I love Buddy's, can you honestly say that you can zoom from 60 - 70 in a couple of seconds to get out of the way if you need to? Correct, IMO the 250 is a slug at 60-70...all I can think is that it's because it's wider and has more wind drag than a normal motorcycle. Who knows.

As to price, if you buy new they are having some good deals right now...probably less $$ than you quoted, however, given that many people buy scooters, then don't ride them, and the economy being the way it is, I'm guessing that an MP3 can be picked up with low mileage for a very reasonable price used. And to reiterate, they are very stable in the rain. My 500 feels "planted" on the freeway doing 70...but then he doesn't want something that big, so "never mind"!

I wold love an mp3, but due to my parking situation (in fron of my car in an apartment complex)) the mp3 simply won't fit,so alas, it is not an option at this point in my life.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:08 am

Also, an MP3 is DAMNED expensive! Wow.

I dunno if I ever would ride something with more than 2 wheels and call it a "motorcycle", but to each their own. For the price of one of those I can get a Triumph or a couple of scooters

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:27 am

Raiderfn311 wrote:Syd my man, I put a vote in earlier(kinda) for the Sym. I just noted parts may be hard to come by. If not for that, its a great deal and I would probably buy one. The performance is great! And I think Ive heard Sym has built motors for Honda at some point. I think they were the v-4's that honda put in the Magna's, Sabre's, and Vectors. My dad had a 1984 V65 magna(1100cc cruiser) and that thing could turn sub 12 second 1/4 miles. If not for the parts issue, you would be preaching to the choir, so to speak.

Indeed you did, I'd just put it the top two. Talk to your dealer about parts. I think most of the parts problems are in the past - and like the Buddy the only parts you'll probably need for 10,000 miles is an air filter.

Post by **Lostmycage** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:28 am

MP3's are stupid expensive, if you pay MSRP. I didn't and that's the only reason I have one. The MP3 isn't really that much wider than a Buddy. It visually dwarfs the Buddy but a lot of that is perception. One of the things that impressed me the most about it is it's utilitarian nature when it comes to parking. You can pretty much park anywhere thanks to the tilt-lock system.

If you want a highway commuter, look for something with larger wheels. The reasoning behind this is two-fold. First, highways have a longer lifespan than side roads, so the repair intervals are longer as well as the threshold before a repair is initiated. That means huge, craterous potholes. Larger wheels help tremendously with ride smoothness (as an aside, the MP3 has relatively tiny front wheels, but the dual wheel front balances out this in most cases... except for wide potholes

). Second, small wheels wear out faster. Motorcycle and scooter tires are expensive (both parts and labor because you often have to remove the exhaust to remove the rear tire). A larger wheel will last longer and lower your maintenance costs. Unless you work at a company that recycles nails and has a relaxed safety policy, but then again anything there would be expensive to commute with (tetanus FTL!).

I can't disagree with Ericalm's statement outright:

ericalm wrote:Well, I'm a bit different in my thinking than a lot of owners. Most will advise getting the biggest displacement model you can for your money. I favor getting the smallest one you can that will do what you need and want it to.

I agree for the most part, but it seems that a lot of people underestimate their needs or abilities. The Buddy isn't built for the interstates. Some people push it and get away with it, but it's far from ideal.

One other side note on the MP3. The 250 gets 65 mpg. The 500 gets 55-60. That itself is a clear indication that the 250 is underpowered for it's frame.

If you want a real head turner, get a Scarabeo 500ie or a Beverly 500ie. They're the same size as a Vespa 250, but with almost twice the engine (and very similar gas mileage). The 250 is a lot smoother, but that's about the only benefit.

Test ride if you can. Good luck!

ravenlore · Post by **ravenlore** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:52 pm

And the Bev is...classy looking. Not quite the form-factor I'm drawn to, but it's a classy looking bike. including the ST350. So is the Liberty, but I don't think we get that here.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:44 pm

Just figured I would mention these repo deals here. They have/had a BJ

https://www.facebook.com/ScooterworksChicago?sk=wall

I just got an email from them with these.

SoCalScooter · Post by **SoCalScooter** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:03 am

viney266 wrote:Just figured I would mention these repo deals here. They have/had a BJ

https://www.facebook.com/ScooterworksChicago?sk=wall

I just got an email from them with these.

It's a shame I don't live in Chicago anymore.... Until May 1st, I live about a mile from their building on Damen. Of course, I had never considered riding a scooter until after I moved to SoCal..

I paid my blackjack a visit today to get what few personal effects I had out of the pet carrier. I'll post up some pics I took in the gallery.

I also looked at the inventory they had on the floor at Motorsport Vespa... they had a BV250, a People 200GTi and a (lightly) used GTS250 that were all very, VERY tempting. They sold their last Blur unfortunately

... I'm still waiting on the insurance reimbursement, so yeah, my timing sucks!

Ethan Allison · Post by **Ethan Allison** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:51 pm

http://www.justgottascoot.com/cfmotojetmax.htm

CF Motos are a lot like most sketchy Chinese scooters in terms of price and quality, but they have way better mechanicals. If you can find a good dealer it might be worth a look. Also worth noting is that their OTD prices are usually less than retail price.

SoCalScooter · Post by **SoCalScooter** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:23 am

Ethan Allison wrote:http://www.justgottascoot.com/cfmotojetmax.htm

CF Motos are a lot like most sketchy Chinese scooters in terms of price and quality, but they have way better mechanicals. If you can find a good dealer it might be worth a look. Also worth noting is that their OTD prices are usually less than retail price.

Thanks Ethan, but I think that's too "maxi" for me. I considered the Kymco Downtown and the SYM Citicom, but I think they're still a little on the husky side for me as well.

If I were to buy a brand new scoot today, I'd probably favor the Kymco GT 200i over the BV 250... while the Beverly clearly wins in the looks department, the Kymco has the better warranty, fuel economy, and nearly identical performance (approximately 21 hp at 205cc vs. 22 hp at 250). I've looked around and there are no BV300's available at this time.

The lightly used Vespa GTS 250 however is cheaper than both of the aforementioned new scooters, and, well... It's a pretty sexy bike. I know, Eric and others have mentioned it's not as spirited a ride as the Buddy 150, nor as nimble in city traffic, but I'm up in suburban Encinitas, so I just want to get out in front of traffic at lights, and keep up (and ride steady) on the 50+ streets. My "city" driving in San Diego is all high-speed roads north of Miramar. With a 200+ scoot I might venture further south on longer trips.

I really do appreciate all the advice though! We'll see how it all pans out. I'll be sure to post pics and a detailed review of whichever bike ends up following me home

-Brian

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:51 am

Ethan Allison wrote:http://www.justgottascoot.com/cfmotojetmax.htm

CF Motos are a lot like most sketchy Chinese scooters in terms of price and quality, but they have way better mechanicals. If you can find a good dealer it might be worth a look. Also worth noting is that their OTD prices are usually less than retail price.

Kooky CFMoto auto motorcycle I spotted this morning:

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:53 am

Yep. That's their "modern" version of their MC/scoot crossover. It has a storage compartment in the "tank" area. They also make a cruiser version. I've seen these and they look like lots of fun but very plasticky.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:00 am

Southerner wrote:Yep. That's their "modern" version of their MC/scoot crossover. It has a storage compartment in the "tank" area. They also make a cruiser version. I've seen these and they look like lots of fun but very plasticky.

I'm not opposed to the ideas of this, just the execution.

I first saw it from the back and thought, "Man that Honda DN-1 looks a lot cheaper in person!" Than I took a closer look and, from the rear, couldn't figure out what the heck it was. I'd seen them online but never seen this model in person.

Looks like it could be a great donor bike for my Akira cycle, though.

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:13 am

I do think their idea of "motorcyclizing" a scooter is a good one. It looks leggier than you would expect of a scoot.

Not that I'd want all scooters to go that way, but it does seem like an interesting offshoot.

Modern Buddy

Replacing a Blackjack

Replacing a Blackjack

RIP