Let's play "What's the diagnosis?" FIXED!!!

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:49 am

Well, I have good news and bad news...

The Good News: As a first step in bringing my hardworking little scooter back to life a new petcock was installed (old one was stuck open) and the carb was cleaned and a bunch of gunk was removed. To quote Mike, "I've never seen gunk in those places before". Evidently I have a very special scooter. Jets were fine, all else with the carb was fine. The engine seems to be running just fine now.

The Bad News: The scooter is still not performing properly. It still has these power surges when cruising at light throttle and lacks its usual torque over all. To eliminate the variator and/or sliders as a possible issue (the sliders are a mix of 12g and 13g and may have been replaced out of order) I'm going to put stock rollers back in there and see what difference it makes. Hopefully it will help point us in the right direction. If that doesn't make any difference, then I have no idea.

So... thus far Eric gets a gold star for the petcock, and ilektron gets a gold star for dirty carb. But the ultimate solution has yet to be found...

Sigh.

I sure as heck hope I don't miss Sunday's Genuine Scooter's Customer Appreciation Ride because of this!!! Bah!

Post by **Lostmycage** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:05 am

Have you tried swapping in an alternate CDI unit? I'd take a closer look at the ignition system.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:14 am

Lostmycage wrote:Have you tried swapping in an alternate CDI unit? I'd take a closer look at the ignition system.

I mentioned it to Mike, They just haven't gone down that road yet. I imagine it should be happening soon.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:34 am

Cough cough

BuddyRaton wrote:Carb...you just may be due for a rebuild.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:07 am

Well diagnosis fans, the saga continues...

Variator and clutch checked and cleaned: no change.
Carb cleaned: scooter runs better but still the problem remains.

Today I opened up the variator and clutch again, sanded the clutch pads to make sure there was no slippage, and put stock rollers in place of the sliders just to see if that made any difference. No difference at all. In fact the stock sliders took away some of what oomph the scooter had left. The power surges remain. And to confirm that I am not going crazy, Eric took the scooter for a ride and felt the same things.

So, the latest hypothesis... blocked exhaust pipe. Why? It explains every symptom. (The exhaust baffles are definitely going or gone as the pipe is pretty dang loud now). A blocked exhaust would account for the engine bogging down even though the carb and jets are clean. It would explain the scooter running fine when idling or going slow but having problems at higher speeds when there is more back pressure. It also explains the power surging when cruising at minimum throttle as back pressure builds and releases. Also, if you remember way back when the problem first appeared, the scooter was fine when I arrived at work and it was hot, but somehow it was messed up when left work and it was cold. The clog in the exhaust could have developed as everything cooled down and contracted during the day.

Is this the answer? Hell, I don't know. But it makes sense and is my next best guess. So I'll be looking for a replacement exhaust to put on the bike. Even if it is not the ultimate solution, I need a new one anyways. So no loss either way.

And so on it goes...

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:04 am

Put a new fuel line on...just for giggles, and to make sure there isn't an air leak and you are sucking air into fuel line. I'm betting air leak lean surge....but where.

I got in just a hair later than Eric on petcock

...

easy · Post by **easy** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:48 am

could spray ether around all vacum lines and connections

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:56 am

i was rushing through this thread hoping no one had said "petcock". I was really going to say petcock....not because I know much about diagnostics, but because I think its a funny word...

and truth be told when Buddy the first had issues like this it was due to issues with petcock.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:17 am

Not that it means anything, but I rode the scoot too and it's clearly not right. Sluggish, lurching and not revving high enough. I could get a bit of a rev off the line, but then, blah. With enough patience, it would get to a decent speed, but wasn't holding it on flats.

I'm not ruling out anything at this point, though it feels like fuel or air/exhaust when riding it.

There are a lot of things that can cause this kind of behavior or similar, from any of the systems. The things that have been fixed needed it: The petcock was leaking, so def. needed replacing and the carb was in need of cleaning.

So…?

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:35 am

peabody99 wrote:i was rushing through this thread hoping no one had said "petcock". I was really going to say petcock....not because I know much about diagnostics, but because I think its a funny word...

and truth be told when Buddy the first had issues like this it was due to issues with petcock.

It's even better when a lady says "petcock"!

bgwss · Post by **bgwss** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:32 pm

The other thing could be is exhaust gasket, which when you put a new muffler most likely you would put on with a new muffler. I had a friend that had a scoot not running right and nuts holding the muffler to the engine had loosen, he forgot to tighten them well when put a new muffler on. Thought I would add to the muddy waters.

Post by **jrsjr** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:30 pm

ericalm wrote:... it feels like fuel or air/exhaust when riding it.

I hope replacing the exhaust sorts it. It fits the profile of the problem since that could have happened slowly then quickly. If not, take a hard look at the CVT diaphragm in the carb. Even a pin-hole in that thing can wreck havoc on carburetion and is not easy to find. That would also explain gunk being in weird places that it shouldn't be, like on top of the diaphragm.

P.S. One loose screw in the air filter cannister cover stopped my Blur dead in its tracks, so remember these small motors are ridiculously sensitive to any problems in the intake system.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:38 pm

jrsjr wrote:P.S. One loose screw in the air filter cannister cover stopped my Blur dead in its tracks, so remember these small motors are ridiculously sensitive to any problems in the intake system.

Funny you should mention that. All but two of the air filter cover screws were inadvertently left out (or the cover plastic got stripped and they fell out) when the belt was replaced. Case cover was still there, just not as tight as it should be.

SoCalScooter · Post by **SoCalScooter** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:54 pm

Skootz Kabootz wrote:Well diagnosis fans, the saga continues...

So, the latest hypothesis... blocked exhaust pipe. Why? It explains every symptom. (The exhaust baffles are definitely going or gone as the pipe is pretty dang loud now). A blocked exhaust would account for the engine bogging down even though the carb and jets are clean. It would explain the scooter running fine when idling or going slow but having problems at higher speeds when there is more back pressure. It also explains the power surging when cruising at minimum throttle as back pressure builds and releases. Also, if you remember way back when the problem first appeared, the scooter was fine when I arrived at work and it was hot, but somehow it was messed up when left work and it was cold. The clog in the exhaust could have developed as everything cooled down and contracted during the day.

Is this the answer? Hell, I don't know. But it makes sense and is my next best guess. So I'll be looking for a replacement exhaust to put on the bike. Even if it is not the ultimate solution, I need a new one anyways. So no loss either way.

And so on it goes...

I have a prima exhaust left over from my totaled black jack (it was not on the bike at the time of the accident). I never had it on the bike, and it's just sitting in a box under the bed. The better half has no interest installing it on our Italia...If you're interested, PM me, I could ship it to NoHo directly.

Post by **jrsjr** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:27 pm

Skootz Kabootz wrote:
jrsjr wrote:P.S. One loose screw in the air filter cannister cover stopped my Blur dead in its tracks, so remember these small motors are ridiculously sensitive to any problems in the intake system.
Funny you should mention that. All but two of the air filter cover screws were inadvertently left out (or the cover plastic got stripped and they fell out) when the belt was replaced. Case cover was still there, just not as tight as it should be.

In my case, the cover was a bit warped. One frikkin' screw wasn't cinched down after the filter was serviced. As it loosened, the cover opened up maybe, maybe, an 1/8th of an inch and that was it. I had no idea what was going on as the scooter ran worse and worse. Eventually, it had to be towed because it wouldn't run well enough to climb a hill.

smithrw · Post by **smithrw** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:11 pm

I'd go with carb problems. I can tell you that getting it off to clean things up is a piece of cake.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:23 pm

SoCalScooter wrote:
Skootz Kabootz wrote:Well diagnosis fans, the saga continues...

So, the latest hypothesis... blocked exhaust pipe. Why? It explains every symptom. (The exhaust baffles are definitely going or gone as the pipe is pretty dang loud now). A blocked exhaust would account for the engine bogging down even though the carb and jets are clean. It would explain the scooter running fine when idling or going slow but having problems at higher speeds when there is more back pressure. It also explains the power surging when cruising at minimum throttle as back pressure builds and releases. Also, if you remember way back when the problem first appeared, the scooter was fine when I arrived at work and it was hot, but somehow it was messed up when left work and it was cold. The clog in the exhaust could have developed as everything cooled down and contracted during the day.

Is this the answer? Hell, I don't know. But it makes sense and is my next best guess. So I'll be looking for a replacement exhaust to put on the bike. Even if it is not the ultimate solution, I need a new one anyways. So no loss either way.

And so on it goes...
I have a prima exhaust left over from my totaled black jack (it was not on the bike at the time of the accident). I never had it on the bike, and it's just sitting in a box under the bed. The better half has no interest installing it on our Italia...If you're interested, PM me, I could ship it to NoHo directly.

PMing!

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:55 am

i still say 22,000+ hard rode miles on a 150cc engine might = internal engine problems. or maybe a valve adjustment? if they haven't been checked. anyway i am totally in the dark about this stuff but seems as good a guess as any. except for the blocked exhaust. which i guess is the next step? but i am sticking with a non specified engine problem for this contest!

idk anything about the way these things go, but i have looked at my Agility engine and related components and there does not seem to be much to them. i wonder what "systems" have been tested and checked, and might it pay just to start replacing things that can be seen like hoses, lines, filters, etc? maybe the cdi and stator? ignition components, maybe? see if something sticks, so to speak

i mean idk is all that stuff expensive to do? seems like everything on a scoot is "right there" and accessible for the skilled tech

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:12 am

Found a preowned stock exhaust on eBay for $40 + shipping. Looks to be pretty close to new. Here's hoping. So for now, we wait.

JHScoot: There are many Buddy's with a lot more miles on them than 20,000. Some running strong at 40,000. 20K is more like middle age.

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:05 am

Three O’clock in the morning; I’m up worried about work, (if it passes the test from last night, it goes into my final test, when it passes the last test I can pack up and leave for the next job) so I started reading things to clear my mind and came to your situation – If you had a stock Buddy 125 I think I know what the problem is, on your model I’m not so sure but it is worth a check since someone was in the box.
Check to see if you have item #12, you will need it if it’s a 125.
See:

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:25 am

What is #12? I can't tell.

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:52 pm

It’s an air baffle of some sort; don’t fully understand its purpose but I think it’s to separate the main air box into two parts, intake, and stabilized air which then feeds the carburetor. Whatever the case if that part is removed in a stock 125 air box the scooter will perform as you described, good idle, poor acceleration, no top speed etc. I don’t know if this baffle is on your model scooter - jus an idea

Post by **jrsjr** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:02 am

Weekend Bump!

Any word?

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:23 am

Waiting on the exhaust to arrive. Should be here Monday or Tuesday. NoHo is still short mechanics so I'm going to go over there and work on it myself to save them the manpower (and me some $). I will have NoHo check the valves for the heck of it since the scooter is there and the engine is already cold like it needs to be. I am really hoping that between the exhaust and the air filter baffle thing we will get this figured out.

The bigger story is me riding around on a 50cc Roughhouse for a week! OMG. Comic to say the least. But that is a story for another thread

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:06 am

Well new things learned just keeps filling my brain. I am really a pretty fortunate guy. NoHo Mike let me use the empty service bay at the shop today so I was working on the scooter all afternoon. All this with the benefit of having NoHo's regular mechanics there to pester with questions and amuse with my newbie ignorance.

I started the day with installing the new exhaust. That was pretty simple. Turns out the old exhaust was on there pretty loosely. Not a good thing and a potential contributor to the scooters performance problems. The new exhaust is pretty much brand new, sounds much healthier, and was truly a great Ebay find at $40. But it didn't solve the problem.

Next I checked the air box again to see if that baffle thingy rajron mentioned was the cause. Nope. Seems that is just a 125cc thing. The 150 has no such baffle thingy.

Then the big fun started—my first hands on valve job. Well, I was hands on for most of it. I took the scooter apart, opened up the engine to expose the valves, removed the spark plug (perfect color), and got the piston aligned correctly etc, but let Greasy (one of NoHo's crack mechanics) step in to show me how to do the vital adjustment work itself (intake was a little loose, exhaust was ok). What an amazing learning experience to have such a seasoned pro do the finesse work right in front of me while explaining exactly what to do and what not to do. Awesome. There is definitely a six pack in his future.

Then came the test drive. Aaaaaand.... the problem still remains. The engine is running better, everything feels better, but still the same symptoms exist. And to add emphasis my scooters woes, I am now riding NoHo's shop St. Tropez while mine is laid up. The difference in performance is like night and day.

So, tomorrow I will be back at the shop to replace the CDI and the coil and see if that helps. Also, I am taking my stock vartiator with me and will put that back in just to see if it makes any difference (I have over 14,000 miles on the Dr. Pulley and Greasy thinks that is past its life expectancy—though I have no idea how one tells if a variator is bad. Mine looks brand new)

So, there is the latest installment of "As the Scooter Turns". On a lighter note, we're running out of things to fix. One of these last remaining things has got to solve the problem. I hope...

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:11 am

Awwwwwwwwwwwww crap. Good thing they have a third bay going.

Those guys don't have any other inkling of what it could be? Coil/CDI are possible, but the scooter lurches under load. Doesn't seem right. But as we know, there are dozens of causes for some symptoms. Some are common, others, mysteries until they're solved.

I was sure that noise I'd hear on my Vespa was in the transmission and pulled it apart a number of times trying to track it. It was the valve that eventually destroyed my top end. So. No more noise.

At the very least, everything you do until finding the cause will be in tip-top shape. And I guess it's good you're not tackling the hill on a Roughhouse anymore.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:40 am

i am going to go out on a limb and say maybe slap a new carb on? or just a different one. you don't have to commit to it, but if it works...

i say this because i am pretty sure it is a straightforward job for a mechanic, and who knows? maybe something inside the carb is faulty

i don't know anything about this stuff, just trying to get as much info as i can, myself

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:45 am

oh yeah this thing has got to be resolved!

not on it anymore, but still...

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:14 am

If you have Greasy helping you out you are in very good hands! He has helped me out on MV NSM many times. I would gladly pay to take instructions from him!

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:27 am

ericalm wrote:... it's good you're not tackling the hill on a Roughhouse anymore.

Damn straight. I was beginning to get tennis elbow in my left arm from waiving cars past.

JHScoot wrote:i am going to go out on a limb and say maybe slap a new carb on? or just a different one.

Carb has already been taken apart and cleaned. Also a new petcock was installed. Old petcock was definitely bad and in need of replacing.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:33 am

JHScoot wrote:oh yeah this thing has got to be resolved!

not on it anymore, but still...

Heh, rockin' the Roughhouse. I have to say, it is a comfortable bike, looks great, is taller than Buddy, and handles very nicely... at low speeds... very low speeds... such low, low speeds... oh what low, low speeds...

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:06 pm

w00t MB finally gets a Roughhouse review. it does look tall. i have seen one on the road exactly once. its somewhat novel in looks, even for a scoot

uphill on a 50cc oh my

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:20 pm

JHScoot wrote:w00t MB finally gets a Roughhouse review. it does look tall. i have seen one on the road exactly once. its somewhat novel in looks, even for a scoot

uphill on a 50cc oh my

What you can't see here: Awesome 2T sound!

jijifer · Post by **jijifer** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:48 pm

I was telling Robot about your mystery and before I got to the part where you were gonna change your pipe, he cut me off and said "oh, 99% of the time we see that its......a tear in the diaphragm in the carb" maybe your scoot is pregnant!

Have you checked the diaphragm?

Post by **jrsjr** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:59 am

jijifer wrote:Robot ... said "oh, 99% of the time we see that its......a tear in the diaphragm in the carb"

Have you checked the diaphragm?

Even a pinhole in the diaphragm would cause problems and would explain why there was gunk on the wrong side of the diaphram... but I would have thought they would catch that when they cleaned up the carb.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:13 am

ah ha! back to the carb, i see. and if so looks like i have potentially taken the lead in this contest!

jijifer · Post by **jijifer** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:39 am

jrsjr wrote:
jijifer wrote:Robot ... said "oh, 99% of the time we see that its......a tear in the diaphragm in the carb"

Have you checked the diaphragm?
Even a pinhole in the diaphragm would cause problems and would explain why there was gunk on the wrong side of the diaphram... but I would have thought they would catch that when they cleaned up the carb.

I don't even know what the diaphragm is, He also said it can be put back together again wrong such that it may not be seated correctly under the cover on top of the carb.

Robot has never done me wrong. I hope it's something simple like this. I want scootz back on his scoot!

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:47 am

jijifer wrote:
jrsjr wrote:
jijifer wrote:Robot ... said "oh, 99% of the time we see that its......a tear in the diaphragm in the carb"

Have you checked the diaphragm?
Even a pinhole in the diaphragm would cause problems and would explain why there was gunk on the wrong side of the diaphram... but I would have thought they would catch that when they cleaned up the carb.
I don't even know what the diaphragm is, He also said it can be put back together again wrong such that it may not be seated correctly under the cover on top of the carb.

Robot has never done me wrong. I hope it's something simple like this. I want scootz back on his scoot!

I'd asked about those two very things when the carb was originally cleaned! A pinhole is possible but it turns out the gunk that was found outside the diaphragm was not carb gunk/fuel sediment/buildup. Just some grime, though still in a weird place.

I went by the shop for a bit tonight to play technical advisor, which is to say watch Skootz and make comments while talking to Greasy about stupid stuff and my project scoot. Skootz had replaced the CDI and re-installed the stock variator. He popped open the transmission again and we discovered his belt had been rubbing the inside of the transmission case. I later realized that this was quite possible the source of the sound his scooter makes that only I can hear… or have heard.

I still think the bog down is a fuel supply issue. I did bring up the diaphragm, too. Skootz was going to pull the carb as I was departing. So…

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:32 am

ericalm wrote:
jijifer wrote:
jrsjr wrote: Even a pinhole in the diaphragm would cause problems and would explain why there was gunk on the wrong side of the diaphram... but I would have thought they would catch that when they cleaned up the carb.
I don't even know what the diaphragm is, He also said it can be put back together again wrong such that it may not be seated correctly under the cover on top of the carb.

Robot has never done me wrong. I hope it's something simple like this. I want scootz back on his scoot!
I'd asked about those two very things when the carb was originally cleaned! A pinhole is possible but it turns out the gunk that was found outside the diaphragm was not carb gunk/fuel sediment/buildup. Just some grime, though still in a weird place.

I went by the shop for a bit tonight to play technical advisor, which is to say watch Skootz and make comments while talking to Greasy about stupid stuff and my project scoot. Skootz had replaced the CDI and re-installed the stock variator. He popped open the transmission again and we discovered his belt had been rubbing the inside of the transmission case. I later realized that this was quite possible the source of the sound his scooter makes that only I can hear… or have heard.

I still think the bog down is a fuel supply issue. I did bring up the diaphragm, too. Skootz was going to pull the carb as I was departing. So…

We are back to fuel supply. Isn't that a side effect of a very dirty fuel filter? Not plugged shut, mind you, just enough to constrict fuel flow.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:28 am

jijifer wrote:...a tear in the diaphragm... maybe your scoot is pregnant!

lol Well my scooter my be f'ed, but it's not pregnant.

The diaphragm is in good shape and the rabbit is still alive.

So todays trouble shooting adventures included reverting to the stock variator setup, trying a new CDI, and last but not least, as Eric mentioned, rebuilding the carb (again). Talk about a crash course in scooter maintenance. Dang I am learning so much!

As with yesterdays the valve adjustment, for today's carb rebuild I took the scooter apart and removed the carb, then Greasy stepped in where experience was needed to do the finesse work (while at the same time giving me an expert narrative on how to do it right. Talk about an invaluable learning experience! Wow!)

Bottom line is the diaphragm and carb are fine. The idle jet was clogged so that got fixed, but other than that there were no issues with the carb. Fixing the clogged jet helped with the irregular idle at middle speeds problem, but unfortunately the main performance problem still exists. So all you people who guessed carb as the answer, sorry, no cigar.

Same goes for the CDI guessers. No cigar there either I'm afraid. A new CDI made no difference.

Checked the fuel filter too—no issues there. The engine seems to be getting enough fuel without issue.

But all this work to no avail is not entirely without benefit. The engine is indeed running better. But even so I still could not get the scooter above 55mph. This leeds me back to thinking the issue is transmission related. Overall the scooter feels sluggish like a bicycle that is stuck in too a high a gear—it gets up to speed eventually, but it strains and takes a long while to do it. Running it at WOT still produces lurches of speed but the scooter does not ever reach normal maximum rpm's ever (and that makes me thing it is engine related... it's a vicious circle).

On a positive note, the new exhaust sounds great... (

)

Next up in the process of elimination is to tear the clutch apart and see if perhaps it is slipping. It is the one thing that hasn't been done yet. I will also replace my aftermarket 1500 main spring with the stock spring to return the scooter to its 100% stock setup. I don't think the spring has anything to do with the issues at hand, but having the scooter back to 100% stock will eliminate any possibility of it.

As mentioned, Eric noticed a mark on the inside of the variator which looks like the belt has been rubbing. Odd to say the least. Why the belt would be rubbing I have no idea, but I suppose the clutch could perhaps be playing a part in it. Hopefully tomorrow we will sort that out.

As much as I hate having my scooter laid up, I have to say it really is fun doing all this hands on work and learning so much. Most excellent. I hope I never need to do it again!

Post by **jrsjr** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:51 pm

Skootz Kabootz wrote:As mentioned, Eric noticed a mark on the inside of the variator which looks like the belt has been rubbing. Odd to say the least. Why the belt would be rubbing I have no idea, but I suppose the clutch could perhaps be playing a part in it.

Did Greasy see that? What does he think?

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:33 pm

jrsjr wrote:
Skootz Kabootz wrote:As mentioned, Eric noticed a mark on the inside of the variator which looks like the belt has been rubbing. Odd to say the least. Why the belt would be rubbing I have no idea, but I suppose the clutch could perhaps be playing a part in it.
Did Greasy see that? What does he think?

Yup. He saw it and is stumped too. First step is the clutch teardown today. A couple possibilities are, there is some remnant from the belt breaking doing wonky things inside the clutch (not too likely but possible), the clutch pads which were cleaned may need to wear in to the bell a bit (again not likely as the symptoms were happening before and after they were sanded), the new belt may have become glazed... er, that's it for theories. Weak at best. Everything is exploration at this point.

The good news is these bizarre problems have piqued Greasy's curiosity. And if he can't figure it out with all his know how and experience I don't know who could. I will just continue to try and be as helpful to him as possible doing as much of the dirty work as I can and feeding him beer.

I rode the scooter home last night to get some miles on the changes. It certainly feels better but it is still night and day the performance difference between mine and NoHo's shop St. Tropez which is running fine.

At this point, to prepare myself for a possible worst case scenario, I am resigned to thinking that even if my scooter is done for good, it is certainly providing me with one hell of a good mechanical education on its way out! Anything better than that will be icing on the cake.

Post by **jrsjr** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:05 pm

Skootz Kabootz wrote:At this point, to prepare myself for a possible worst case scenario, I am resigned to thinking that even if my scooter is done for good, it is certainly providing me with one hell of a good mechanical education on its way out! Anything better than that will be icing on the cake.

I think that is a great attitude. I keep hoping that somebody will notice something easy that was overlooked, but the fact that Greasy can't find it is attenuating my optimism a few dB.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:19 pm

Skootz Kabootz wrote:I rode the scooter home last night to get some miles on the changes. It certainly feels better but it is still night and day the performance difference between mine and NoHo's shop St. Tropez which is running fine.

Swap the speedos and the body piece with the VIN. Presto! Fixed!

jrsjr wrote:
Skootz Kabootz wrote:As mentioned, Eric noticed a mark on the inside of the variator which looks like the belt has been rubbing. Odd to say the least. Why the belt would be rubbing I have no idea, but I suppose the clutch could perhaps be playing a part in it.
Did Greasy see that? What does he think?

This actually happens a lot when using performance variators and not using the correct spacers/washers.

Skootz and I have discussed—at great length for such a topic—two mystery spacers in his variator. I'm not sure if they're stock or came with the Dr. Pulley. They're very thin—barely wide enough to make much difference. Since they were there when we opened up the transmission and when the scooter was running fine, we put them back in. Greasy saw them, said, "WTF are these?!" and we didn't reinstall them. Not sure it will make ANY difference but those or clutch issues might have been enough to cause the rubbing.

I'm really hoping that solves the noise, too. Even though only my unusually keen in this specific instance ears could hear it.

One other thing, the clutch spring felt very soft. I'm not as familiar with the Buddy clutch as my LX but with my stiff Malossi spring, I have to work to compress the clutch. On Skootz's Dr. Pulley, it was quite easy.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:27 pm

ericalm wrote:...two mystery spacers in his variator... not sure it will make ANY difference...

None at all.

ericalm wrote:...the clutch spring felt very soft. I'm not as familiar with the Buddy clutch as my LX but with my stiff Malossi spring, I have to work to compress the clutch. On Skootz's Dr. Pulley, it was quite easy.

We will know shortly. I'm on my way over there to change the spring now. Cross your fingers.

Post by **jrsjr** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:31 pm

Skootz Kabootz wrote:
ericalm wrote:...the clutch spring felt very soft. I'm not as familiar with the Buddy clutch as my LX but with my stiff Malossi spring, I have to work to compress the clutch. On Skootz's Dr. Pulley, it was quite easy.
We will know shortly. I'm on my way over there to change the spring now. Cross your fingers.

That would be great if that's all there is to it! Hope. Hope.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:34 pm

jrsjr wrote:
Skootz Kabootz wrote:
ericalm wrote:...the clutch spring felt very soft. I'm not as familiar with the Buddy clutch as my LX but with my stiff Malossi spring, I have to work to compress the clutch. On Skootz's Dr. Pulley, it was quite easy.
We will know shortly. I'm on my way over there to change the spring now. Cross your fingers.
That would be great if that's all there is to it! Hope. Hope.

Amen to that!

BTW those two washers mentioned are shown in the exploded view of the stock Genuine Variator (parts#28 if I recall). But the illustration is kinda confusing as to where exactly they go.

jijifer · Post by **jijifer** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:17 pm

that was bit that was hanging up in my head. - why did a new belt break? like something wasn't right in the variator or clutch.

my clutch bearing were bad, it would drag.

A scoot doing 55mph is nothing to sneeze at - it has life left in her she may just be a wee bit slower these days

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:25 pm

This thread is a perfect illustration that given the symptoms, there may be a number of "most likely" causes but rarely one that can be pegged with 100% certainty. It's always a process of elimination, even when you solve the problem on your first try.

It makes perfect sense that we all tend to point to either the things we commonly hear about or things from our experience. However, I think the nature of forums often puts too much emphasis on certain issues that aren't as common in the wide world as you'd think from reading posts. Sometimes, it's something else.

I just texted Skootz with one more possible idea.

smithrw · Post by **smithrw** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:56 pm

As far as the washers go I actualy called Dr Pulley and they told me not to use them. I'm on a 150. Installed the new variartor without the washers and things worked ok.

Modern Buddy

Let's play "What's the diagnosis?" FIXED!!!

Want a prima pipe?

carb

Re: Want a prima pipe?