Tires: S1 or Zippy 1 or ?

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:43 am

After 5 years, I'm sick of the Shinko whitewalls. I don't see too many good whitewalls so it's time for something else. Something that fits my aggressive riding style but is still confident in the wet.

Everyone speaks well of the Zippy 1, but could the Michelin S1's be good too?

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:53 am

I love the S1's. Tried the Pirelli SL26's and they were way too slippery.
I haven't used the much-touted Heidenau's b/c of the cost.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:11 am

Tocsik wrote:I haven't used the much-touted Heidenau's b/c of the cost.

So worth it. Lasted me almost twice as long as any other I've had.
(This response from me is probably not unexpected.)

RoadRambler · Post by **RoadRambler** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:50 am

How are the Heidenaus for tread? I want maximum tread/grip. Thx

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:33 am

as mentioned on other threads, I have nothing nice to say about Zippys on the buddy. very poor wear, scary cornering, unimpressive over all. Yes I kept the pressure as directed and I know I might be in the minority in my opinion. Just so no one thinks I am trolling against the company, I am on my second set ( 3rd rear I believe) on my GTS. I mostly like them on the GTS for the long wear. But I am not so in love I won't try something else next.

JohnnyScoots · Post by **JohnnyScoots** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:56 am

Tocsik wrote:Tried the Pirelli SL26's and they were way too slippery.

I noticed that while riding tonight, as well.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:03 am

RoadRambler wrote:How are the Heidenaus for tread? I want maximum tread/grip. Thx

The K61s are great. Better handling in the twisties, better stability at high speeds. (When compared to Michelins and Pirellis on my LX.)

I have Michelin S83s on the Stella and think they're pretty good. I may try Metzelers ME1s next time just to check then out.

Chilly · Post by **Chilly** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:28 am

S1's are nice in the rain but wear super fast. Zippy's handle ok, wear ok but I believe add a couple mph on the top end.. Need to try the K61's.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:01 am

Heidenaus flat out rock! The only time I buy something else is when I need a higher speed rating.

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:48 pm

ericalm wrote:
Tocsik wrote:I haven't used the much-touted Heidenau's b/c of the cost.
So worth it. Lasted me almost twice as long as any other I've had.
(This response from me is probably not unexpected.)

I would have been disappointed if anyone else posted a response before you once the Heidenau name was dropped!

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:53 pm

Chilly wrote:S1's are nice in the rain but wear super fast. Zippy's handle ok, wear ok but I believe add a couple mph on the top end.. Need to try the K61's.

I get about 4K miles out of a rear tire with the S1's. I think that's about average. My Maxxis WW's didn't last as long nor did the Pirellis.

If the Heidenau's really do last twice as long, I may try that next time since I do my own tire changes which is currently every-other-oil-change and my rims are starting to look sketchy from the scratches! But since I have 25K miles on the scooter, I am about to install my 6th rear tire.

Post by **jmazza** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:21 pm

Chilly wrote:S1's are nice in the rain but wear super fast. Zippy's handle ok, wear ok but I believe add a couple mph on the top end.. Need to try the K61's.

I agree with this. Loved my S1s but didn't get much out of them. Then again, I've not gotten much out of my Vee either!

Hoping to try K61s next.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:13 pm

i have a set of Zips ready for my Agility. no need yet, though. kinda looking forward to the swap but i don't want to waste tread

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:10 am

I don't the wear issue with the S1s. I have them on all my scoots and never had a problem with getting decent life out of them. Is it me or are you hauling sacks of potatoes on the rear rack? The S1s perform really well in rain and they're cheap.

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:54 am

BuddyRaton wrote:Heidenaus flat out rock! The only time I buy something else is when I need a higher speed rating.

what's a speed rating? I assume it has something to do with top speeds? I ride my buddy on urban streets, but when I go to work I take it on the freeway a few exits (shhhh, don't tell) and then a 60 mph highway. Needless to say there is some full throttle riding. Are Heidenaus ok in these conditions?

jijifer · Post by **jijifer** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:10 am

peabody99 wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:Heidenaus flat out rock! The only time I buy something else is when I need a higher speed rating.
what's a speed rating? I assume it has something to do with top speeds? I ride my buddy on urban streets, but when I go to work I take it on the freeway a few exits (shhhh, don't tell) and then a 60 mph highway. Needless to say there is some full throttle riding. Are Heidenaus ok in these conditions?

most scooter tires, Zippy and S1 including are rated J or 62mph max.

the Heidenaus are rated M or 81mph max.

Riding faster on those Zippys and S1 is maybe why I blew through them so fast. just put on K61s, we'll see how long they go!

2wheelNsanity · Post by **2wheelNsanity** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:07 am

My OEM Prima whitewalls are begining to show thier age (3100miles). The front is fine, however the rear needs replacement soon. Is it ok just to change out the rear? I was looking into the K 61, however the only place I can find them in stock is the Scooter Shop in Orange County, CA. does anyone have any dealings with them?

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:26 am

2wheelNsanity wrote:My OEM Prima whitewalls are begining to show thier age (3100miles). The front is fine, however the rear needs replacement soon. Is it ok just to change out the rear? I was looking into the K 61, however the only place I can find them in stock is the Scooter Shop in Orange County, CA. does anyone have any dealings with them?

ScooterShop is good and has good prices on the Heidenaus, from what I've heard.

I wouldn't leave a Prima on the front and put K61 on the rear, though. It's okay to run different tires, but it's best to stick with similar types and treads. Your front may last through another Prima rear!

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:46 am

I'm a huge fan of Metzelers on my street bikes...So I think I will try one when its time, that or the michelins.

hal888 · Post by **hal888** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:01 pm

ericalm wrote:
2wheelNsanity wrote:My OEM Prima whitewalls are begining to show thier age (3100miles). The front is fine, however the rear needs replacement soon. Is it ok just to change out the rear? I was looking into the K 61, however the only place I can find them in stock is the Scooter Shop in Orange County, CA. does anyone have any dealings with them?
ScooterShop is good and has good prices on the Heidenaus, from what I've heard.

I wouldn't leave a Prima on the front and put K61 on the rear, though. It's okay to run different tires, but it's best to stick with similar types and treads. Your front may last through another Prima rear!

I switched out my rear Prima whitewall with low tread for a K61. However, the front Prima had so much tread that I left it on to see what happens. No crashes yet javascript:emoticon(':)'), and I haven't really noticed any detriment to handling or braking.

That all said, the switch-out of the rear did improve the feel and stability of the bike. I'm thinking about replacing the front for a K61 just to get any additional benefits beyond the stock white walls.

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:15 pm

jijifer wrote:
most scooter tires, Zippy and S1 including are rated J or 62mph max.

the Heidenaus are rated M or 81mph max.

Riding faster on those Zippys and S1 is maybe why I blew through them so fast. just put on K61s, we'll see how long they go!

The 3.50-10 Heidenau K61 is J rated.

BoneGirl · Post by **BoneGirl** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:40 am

JettaKnight wrote:
Everyone speaks well of the Zippy 1, but could the Michelin S1's be good too?

The last few sets of tires I have bought are the Michelin S1 and love them. Great for all road conditions. I ride all Winter, do a LOT of twisties and rain. Just purchased another set from Bike Bandit that arrived yesterday. No complaints.

jijifer · Post by **jijifer** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:46 am

JettaKnight wrote:
jijifer wrote:
most scooter tires, Zippy and S1 including are rated J or 62mph max.

the Heidenaus are rated M or 81mph max.

Riding faster on those Zippys and S1 is maybe why I blew through them so fast. just put on K61s, we'll see how long they go!
The 3.50-10 Heidenau K61 is J rated.

100/90 aren't

they are M - those fit our rims, are the size on the Black Jack and 150s.

2wheelNsanity · Post by **2wheelNsanity** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:01 pm

If anyone is interested in the S1's Motorcycle-Superstore.com has a great deal on them, $35.99 for 100/90 10 and only 6.99 for shipping

.

BoneGirl · Post by **BoneGirl** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:47 pm

http://www.bikebandit.com/michelin-s1-scooter-tire

$31.45 for the 3.50 x 10 and $33.48 for the 100/90.

I think the 3.50 is a little taller than the 100/90 and that's why I prefer it on my scooter.

2wheelNsanity · Post by **2wheelNsanity** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:25 pm

This may be a stupid question: Would 4.00 X 10 tires work on the buddy or are they to large?

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:34 pm

RoadRambler wrote:How are the Heidenaus for tread? I want maximum tread/grip. Thx

Lokky ordered Heindenaus for his Stella specifically for the tread made for inclement weather and speaks very highly of it- considers them worth every penny, especially since they seem to take more miles than some other tire brands in the end.

batgirl101 · Post by **batgirl101** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:05 pm

BoneGirl wrote:
JettaKnight wrote:
Everyone speaks well of the Zippy 1, but could the Michelin S1's be good too?
The last few sets of tires I have bought are the Michelin S1 and love them. Great for all road conditions. I ride all Winter, do a LOT of twisties and rain. Just purchased another set from Bike Bandit that arrived yesterday. No complaints.

Bonegirl, i too am from Ohio--how ever do you manage to ride through winter?

BoneGirl · Post by **BoneGirl** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:43 pm

batgirl101 wrote:
Bonegirl, i too am from Ohio--how ever do you manage to ride through winter?

Hi, Batgirl!

1) The original Genuine Tall windshield is a life saver for face, chest and hands.
2) It's all about having the right gear: Balaclava under full face helmet, scarf, winter motorcycle jacket and pants.
3) Gerbing electric glove liners for 20 degrees and colder (didn't need this year)

Snow and ice days I won't scoot.

Lagerhead · Post by **Lagerhead** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:16 am

siobhan wrote:I don't the wear issue with the S1s. I have them on all my scoots and never had a problem with getting decent life out of them. Is it me or are you hauling sacks of potatoes on the rear rack? The S1s perform really well in rain and they're cheap.

I agree with siobhan. Here's a picture of an S-1 I took off of the Blackjack at 6988 miles.

Michelin S-1 6988mi by benandangie, on Flickr

They wear well and they wear even. (For us at least.)

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:50 am

i just ordered a rear Zippy for the future. i have an OEM set for my Agility but have decided to hold 'em back as spares. i am eager to try another brand with more grip and better handling characteristics. i can't imagine how the Zippy's would not be an improvement over the OEM's

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:27 pm

ericalm wrote:I have Michelin S83s on the Stella and think they're pretty good. I may try Metzelers ME1s next time just to check then out.

Ha, too many tires to keep straight! I HAD S83s on Stella #1 and liked them for the 3K or so I got on them before totaling the scooter.

I'm on Zippy 1s now on Stella 4T #2. Took them out for their first canyon run this weekend and they performed very well. Hard to compare to the Michelins or others, though. Very hard to compare to the Heidenaus, though, because I'm not as demanding of the Stella as my LX. (Can't be ridden the same way and isn't nearly as fast.)

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:22 pm

Lagerhead wrote:
siobhan wrote:I don't the wear issue with the S1s. I have them on all my scoots and never had a problem with getting decent life out of them. Is it me or are you hauling sacks of potatoes on the rear rack? The S1s perform really well in rain and they're cheap.
I agree with siobhan. Here's a picture of an S-1 I took off of the Blackjack at 6988 miles.

Michelin S-1 6988mi by benandangie, on Flickr

They wear well and they wear even. (For us at least.)

Dang! Here's my S1 at 4225 miles:

I just replaced it Saturday.
I guess I must ride a little too aggressive. I weigh about 170'ish and don't have any extra weight on the rear rack.

Lagerhead · Post by **Lagerhead** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:47 pm

I forgot to mention, that's the rear tire and it the scoot has a Shad 29 topcase always and is 90%+ of the time loaded. The rider's (my Wife) weight is confidential.*

I think one of the biggest things that contributes to tire longevity is how abrasive the roads are. Tires wear visibly faster when we ride in North Carolina and Tennessee vs. Here in Ohio. (This has been confirmed scientifically by the old dragging your feet on the road test as well.)

*
(My Wife weighs about 90 KG.) you do the math...

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:54 pm

BoneGirl wrote:I think the 3.50 is a little taller than the 100/90 and that's why I prefer it on my scooter.

I think it's the other way around. I believe the 100/90 is taller and wider than the 3.50. But that probably means the 100/90 weighs more which means it requires more inertia. So I suspect the 3.50 accelerates quicker. But the 100/90 might have a better top end. Who knows?

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:34 pm

Have a topcase, even an empty one, will noticeably shorten your tire life. True story! From what I've figured (which isn't much), it's not the weight; my cases are usually empty while riding. It's airflow creating downward pressure, drag or something like that causing additional wear over time.

This is the big reason I no longer run with my topcase (or Prima bag on the Stella) unless I know I'll need them. They come on and off easily enough.

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Wed May 16, 2012 12:34 am

How much do topcases weight that it makes that much of a difference even for an empty one?

Also, should I be considering Michelins S83 vs. S1 at all? So supposedly the S1 is "sport" and the S83 is "street" but what does that even mean? My criteria are, from most to least important:

1) grip/stability/versatility in wet/dry/cold conditions
2) durability

Post by **ericalm** » Wed May 16, 2012 4:38 am

un_designer wrote:How much do topcases weight that it makes that much of a difference even for an empty one?

It's not the weight. I think it's due to additional drag putting direct downward pressure on the wheel. Whether or not that's right, I've spoken to many dealers and mechanics about it and sure enough, top cases significantly reduce rear tire longevity.

Post by **jmazza** » Wed May 16, 2012 4:58 am

un_designer wrote:Also, should I be considering Michelins S83 vs. S1 at all? So supposedly the S1 is "sport" and the S83 is "street" but what does that even mean? My criteria are, from most to least important:

1) grip/stability/versatility in wet/dry/cold conditions
2) durability

I *believe* that you'll get better grip out of the sport tread S1's at maybe a bit of a lower life and definitely a less classic scooter look. Michelin brands their S83 tires as "retro style meets modern construction."

I also think a street/classic tread pattern like the S83 will not be quite as smooth of a ride - especially in rough or grooved pavement.

This page has a few somewhat helpful pdf files on each tire. They seem to be fairly similar in many ways (ratings, load, tread depth, etc). I think the major difference will be the smoothness of ride and grip on the road, with maybe a difference in lifespan.

One other thing- you definitely don't want to mix a street pattern with a sport pattern- so if you are not changing your front tire, you'll need to somewhat (if not exactly) match what's on the front.

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Wed May 16, 2012 5:03 pm

ericalm wrote:
un_designer wrote:How much do topcases weight that it makes that much of a difference even for an empty one?
It's not the weight. I think it's due to additional drag putting direct downward pressure on the wheel. Whether or not that's right, I've spoken to many dealers and mechanics about it and sure enough, top cases significantly reduce rear tire longevity.

hmm i never thought about that... i always figured that the rider would be the cause of any drag since most topcases aren't taller than the rider. anyhow i just have a wire basket in the back so hopefully that doesn't cause as much wear and tear on the rear wheel. Although... now i'm having second thoughts about where i put grocery lol.

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Wed May 16, 2012 5:07 pm

jmazza wrote: One other thing- you definitely don't want to mix a street pattern with a sport pattern- so if you are not changing your front tire, you'll need to somewhat (if not exactly) match what's on the front.

Is it *REALLY* bad or is it just *so so* bad... I'd have to wait a week to get the S83 in or I can get an S1 put in the rear tire tomorrow. Am I just screwing myself by putting an S1 in the rear with the stock 07 whitewalls in the front?

Post by **jmazza** » Wed May 16, 2012 6:06 pm

un_designer wrote:
jmazza wrote: One other thing- you definitely don't want to mix a street pattern with a sport pattern- so if you are not changing your front tire, you'll need to somewhat (if not exactly) match what's on the front.
Is it *REALLY* bad or is it just *so so* bad... I'd have to wait a week to get the S83 in or I can get an S1 put in the rear tire tomorrow. Am I just screwing myself by putting an S1 in the rear with the stock 07 whitewalls in the front?

I'll let others chime in but I can say from experience (from the original whitewalls to S1's and Vee Rubber tires) that the feel of the ride is definitely different, as is the amount of grip. My original whitewalls were Shinkos (is that what yours are?). I'm guessing you would be ok if you were extra careful and took turns slower, etc. but I wouldn't want to be caught doing an evasive maneuver with such different tires. Many people recommend not even to have different brands with similar treads on each tire due to different rubber compounds. I've ridden 3-4k miles with an S1 on the front and a Vee VRM134 on the back with no problems (my crash had nothing to do with my tires!).

If you don't change both to S1's or similar, I think I'd probably wait the week for the S83.

Check with Sportique and see what they say about this; my experience is limited to only three different tire models so far!

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Wed May 16, 2012 6:41 pm

yep. my originals were white wall shinkos. since i got help from velobuff removing the wheel today, i'm just going to bring it by sportique so they can put the S83 on. thanks again for the info.

Post by **jmazza** » Wed May 16, 2012 11:01 pm

un_designer wrote:yep. my originals were white wall shinkos. since i got help from velobuff removing the wheel today, i'm just going to bring it by sportique so they can put the S83 on. thanks again for the info.

Great- how hard was it? On a side note, you'll likely be amazed at how much better the Michelin rides than the Shinko. I couldn't believe the difference when I switched those out. It was like a totally different ride.

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Wed May 16, 2012 11:23 pm

jmazza wrote:Great- how hard was it? On a side note, you'll likely be amazed at how much better the Michelin rides than the Shinko. I couldn't believe the difference when I switched those out. It was like a totally different ride.

Removing the rear wheel on my Buddy was sooooo easy that I can't even believe it. Mad props to velobuff for lending me his tools and helping me with it. It literally took less than 15 minutes. Putting it back took me a little longer because it's kinda dark in my parking spot and I didn't have a head-mounted flashlight to see.

My camera was out of battery at the time we removed the wheel so I had to use the crappy one on my iPod. I haven't checked yet but I will post the pictures and instructions when I get home later tonight.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Thu May 17, 2012 3:43 am

Nice! I might bug you guys to help me in a few months then. I like supporting the local shops but from what I have asked the prices are fairly expensive.

Then again I did get the plus plan. Oh well, still a couple thousand miles before I'll worry about it too much.

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Thu May 17, 2012 4:37 am

sure thing... let me know when you get ready to do it. I'm happy to pay it forward and help you or anyone else local who wants to remove the back wheel. the pics I took came out so bad because it was dark, so I'll try retaking a few shots tomorrow and post them here also.

Modern Buddy

Tires: S1 or Zippy 1 or ?

Tires: S1 or Zippy 1 or ?

Re: Tires: S1 or Zippy 1 or ?

Bike Bandit

Re: Tires: S1 or Zippy 1 or ?

Re: Tires: S1 or Zippy 1 or ?

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