[NSR] My backyard is dangerous

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LunaP
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[NSR] My backyard is dangerous

Post by LunaP »

Okay, I apologize, this is completely un-scooter related, but I have nothing else interesting going on in my life right now and thought it may dredge up some funny stories/interesting discussions.

My neighborhood is an older one, and fairly woodsy in some parts, so we have the occaisional wildlife problem. Raccoons, possums, etc. 'My' house down the street has a stretch of woods lining the backyard and I am serenaded by owls at night.

But I've been at my mother's just down the street since I came home from rehab. Over a week ago, we noticed hawks nesting in the driveway. We noticed not one, but TWO nests being built, actually. We only ever saw the hawks coming and going and have never been 100% sure there were more than two hawks.

Maybe the hawks fought, and one of the pairs was driven away. Maybe one pair had an egg that never hatched, and left. Either way, there are two nests and one is not active any longer- the remaining pair has at least one chick and is now extremely territorial and aggressive for some reason.

The inactive nest is in a Holly tree at the bottom of our driveway near the street. Maybe 100 yards up our driveway, directly above our cars, is the other nest. The first attack was our neighbor. Our neighbor is a personal trainer and when he doesn't have appointments, he works outside a lot, especially in the nice weather. Usually, its in his garage. This day it wasn't. He was standing around in his driveway (which is right beside ours- a line of small bushes a plants is the only thing that separates them) and got a warning swoop that knocked his hat off. Two hours later, he was full-on attacked and an ambulance was called.

At that point, it was a strange, upsetting fluke- I/we joked that it didn't like his hat. We figured he had just been standing around outside too long and he had aggravated it.

Then my dad was attacked, just walking from the back door to his car- less than 50 feet. He didn't sustain scratches from talons like my neighbor, but it hit him full force and he had a heck of a headache. Now we think it's offended by bald men- but we're not taking chances. My dad wears an old hard hat we had down in the basement, and if we go outside we use big, bright umbrellas and don't go alone (both seem to deter them from attacking).

The weekend went fine like that. Then today, the occupational therapist that has just started coming to see my grandmother was attacked. I don't think she was scratched badly, but she said she felt it pulling at her hair. She cut her session off early to go to the hospital and be checked out.

So I've had to call the physical therapist and nurse who see me weekly and warn them. Yay. As well as warning any friends who were considering coming over, and Lokky. :?

The first two calls made to County Animal Control (by my neighbor, then by my mother when my dad was attacked) were fruitless. We were told nothing could be done because birds of prey are federally protected. When my mom called, the man she spoke with was slightly concerned because apparently even though hawks are indeed territorial this time of year it's highly unusual for them to be outright attacking people unprovoked like this, and he said he's make some calls today (the call was on saturday so he couldn't reach anybody effective or important).

Today when we called AC again, the lady she talked to gave her Game and Inland Fishery's number, as if AC was throwing their hands in the air. My mom's currently at work so I have no idea what's happened since that call.

I have a friend who works for the VA Dept of Agriculture, and knows some stuff about this kind of thing... she gave me the number to what may be the Game Warden and is encouraging me to name drop (if her friend is not retired)... not sure if I'm comfortable doing that. But she also insists that regardless of whether we are defending ourselves or not, if one of us were to harm or kill one of the hawks, we'd be arrested. I can't believe that- don't I have a constitutional RIGHT to defend myself, if that hawk comes flying at me? On my own property? Especially since it's well on record that they've been attacking people at random and unprovoked? Le grrr.


So, do you guys have any crazy/dangerous/unbelievable encounters with wildlife stories??
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Tom
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Post by Tom »

I don't believe that what you've been told is true.
You can certainly defend yourself in the moment of being attacked. What you may not do is preemptively defend yourself.

For instance, if you decided you've had enough and you go outside and shoot it, big crime- raptors are protected.
If the bird is in the act of attacking you and you punched it and it died, I don't think you'll be fined, though before you get there, you may have to tell your story to quite a few people.

Here's what I would worry about if I were you. If you started going around with a bat waiting for the attack and then defend yourself and kill the bird in the process (as opposed to the scenario above) it may look to everyone who gets to decide whether or not to fine you/ put you away- that you were out for blood, after all people don't normally walk around with bats.

Best thing for now is to make sure everyone who has been hurt is reporting the incident.

Next thing, I would say the umbrella strategy is pretty good. Hawks can't see a target under them, unlikely to swoop on what they can't see. And if they do swoop, better the umbrella than you. Besides that, if you did have to fight it, you have an improvised weapon in your hand that says to the authorities that you were trying to live and let live- rather than out for blood. (just being pragmatic)

I have had problems with hawks as well. We live out in the boonies and I raise chickens, ducks, and rabbits. Hawks love to hang around here. I can never do anything about a hawk who takes my hens (even if I watch it happen. I can't even disturb his meal after, lol), but my rooster sure can! Also I encourage lots of crows in the eucalyptis trees nearby- Crows will NOT abide the presence of a hawk. I don't mean to say that these are solutions for you, just commiserating.

On the flip side: Our raptors have had a hell of a time. I don't mind dealing with them too much, it is a small price to pay to see them recovering. I understand that you are having a rougher time than me however. Just know that it will pass..
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Tom
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Post by Tom »

Other crazy stories about wildlife. I almost hit a turkey vulture on the scoot the other day.

Riding to school, I see a dead skunk in the road. Riding home later, the skunk was still in the road. Riding back to school for a later class however, there are 3 BIG vultures eating it. I slowed down because I just wanted to look at them- have never seen them up so close. I must have made them nervous however because they all decided to fly away when I was about 15 feet away. They flew across the road, and they don't go up very fast being heavy birds. I actually had to shift my body to dodge one of them- almost hit me, not the scoot.

Another day, I'm outside in the backyard lighting the BBQ to make dinner. The chickens all make a ruckus and run to get under the avocado tree. I look up thinking, 'what are they running from?' just in time to see the biggest coyote I've ever seen running along the fence line sort of following where they went. He didn't see me, he was pretty fixated on the birds. For some reason I announced out loud "Coyote!" He looked up at me, probably recognized his name. Then he ran away.

Snakes are coming soon- spring and summer we have a sighting just about every day. I love to catch them, but just to get a picture and then let them go. It's my favorite time of year.

That's about it for me on the wildlife stories..
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LunaP
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Post by LunaP »

It will pass, yes- but we really can't/shouldn't have to be in danger every time we walk TO THE CAR. Never mind that there are TWO disabled people living here that will probably lose medical attention they should have because of it. Forget the petty inconveniences it causes.

If I know I could be attacked simply by stepping outside my door, I see no reason I shouldn't carry a darn bat. But, I see what you're saying and how the authorities may not see it that way.

I usually don't mind the wildlife- in fact, normally we'd be taking a few photos. I'm with you- I'll catch a snake to admire it (around here, there's threatening ones, and then there's cute little green garden snakes and that's about it though). Turtles, frogs. But this is just way over the top for us.

Funny story: I had a friend from France/Luxembourg visit a year ago. He asked me if the squirrels were friendly or if he could feed them. That elicited a large guffaw of laughter from me. He had also never seen a chipmunk.
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Post by Tom »

LunaP wrote:It will pass, yes- but we really can't/shouldn't have to be in danger every time we walk TO THE CAR.
I totally agree with you. One has to be careful with advice though, because right or wrong the authorities are not very flexible on this issue.

To me, the fact that she even told you that you aren't allowed to defend yourself against it (she's wrong of course), says something about your position if you actually injured it defending yourself. I get it, but I don't think they will.

Heck, it's a federal crime just to own one of its feathers. Yes even if you picked it up on the ground under the nest. It can be viewed the same as having it's skull. Their thinking is that if there is an interest than there will be a market. I'm just trying to paint a picture of how seriously they take these things. You can actually be looking at jail time (!!) http://www.gpnc.org/raptors1.htm

There's no sense in my saying if I agree with it or not. It is what it is.
That's why I say be conscious of how you will be portrayed if you have to defend yourself- If you wind up investigated for defending yourself against a dangerous animal, it is best that those looking at you are thinking, "Jeez, she did the best she could".

Also keep the calls up.
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NSR my backyard is dangerous

Post by theflash784 »

As a retired animal control officer, I can tell you- there is not much your local officers can do about your hawk problem because they are protected. Our area has a problem with Canada geese who are also protected. They get nasty during nesting time and leave their droppings all over the place. I would suggested getting some helium balloons with long strings, tie brightly colored strips to the strings and put them up in the yard. You could also try rigging some netting up or use the umbrellas. The talons on the hawk are what you have to watch out for. I have cut a hawk out of some netting that a home owner put over his pond to keep the hawk from his koi fish. I have helped cut a ground hog out of some fencing. I have pulled baby raccoons out of sub pump wells and chased chipmunks out of a bathroom and squirrels in basements. I have also walked a pony home that got out of its yard using a dog leach because it didn't have a halter on. There are worse jobs but its hard to believe when you have to drag a dead deer out of someone's yard in the summer time.
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Post by pugbuddy »

We've had the occassional hawk floating around midtown (not in the boonies at all!) but they've never attacked. I do worry about my dogs (Pugs, in general, are not built for actual survival and the Frenchie is not a powerful defender of the yard either).

At my old job some geese ended up nesting in a small grass aree in the parking lot (one of those "islands" where they plant a tree to make things look nice). Animal control was all over the place protecting the geese and warnings were issued to watch your driving, et al. until the gosslings (is that the right term?) hatched and they all moved on. It was a pretty big deal.
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Post by AWinn6889 »

The backyard of my parents' house is bordered by pine forest, so growing up I've seen all sorts of wildlife, taken pictures of most... been terrified by others.
The first scary one was about 8 years ago, a weird looking fox/coyote type critter was spotted just beyond our fence, it looked like a brownish-colored fox with the typical white markings and a fox-like face, but it was huge. It had been stalking my step-sister's then old and feeble cat, Romeo. Well, my cat, Mittens, a pretty darn fierce muscle-man of a cat (despite his name), didn't think it was so cool of fox-zilla to do that. So one morning around dawn Mittens somehow pissed off the fox, and got it to chase him to the back steps of our patio. The cat was on the top step on his hind legs, front paws in the air, claws out. The fox was a couple steps down, crouched and snarling. I was so afraid this was going to be the end of my cat, but I wasn't going to go outside and mess with mondo-fox either! To my surprise, my cat beat the crap out of that fox-monster, and it limped back into the woods bleeding. Never saw it again, but both of our next door neighbors at the time continued to lose cats, we even lost my step-sister's second cat, Dude, a few months later.
The next was a great horned owl, this was only about a year ago... They really aren't common in this area because their habitat has diminished pretty rapidly in the last 10 years as Clifton Park has become suburb central (which is why I moved two-towns north, and hate working here still). First it was spotted at the Preserve, which is really a huge amount of land protected by both the wildlife and historical bureaus because it's a big chunk of the original Erie Canal. Well a few days after it was originally spotted it had made the news again because it was picking off people's pets from their back yards in the next neighborhood over, I think it got a cat or two and a Chihuahua. At this point I was like, dude, wtf. I have a small dog, and my step-sister had another cat, both we let outside for potty purposes. I saw the monster fly through the pine trees just past our yard, and that was it. Both the cat and the dog were put on leashes and taken out to the front yard until they said on the news that animal control caught the bird and was bringing it to a sanctuary, and was to be released in the Adirondacks.

Those are the only real freaky ones, but my neighbors would argue this with me. In their defense, they are straight from India, and had never seen a fully grown white-tailed deer before. One night while having dinner with my family we saw a pretty big doe come out of the woods and pick off all of the Iris flowers from their stems in our neighbors' backyard. The next day Milan was talking with my dad about putting up a fence, and asking where the property line was/if they could share the edge of our fence. My dad didn't think to ask why. A week passes and up their fence goes, it seemed like a really quick thing, so my dad asked why they were so hurried to put the fence up. Well, they thought the deer might eat their two young children. My dad laughed (they're good friends, so our neighbor wasn't offended or anything) and said the deer would probably never come near the house if it heard or saw his children, that the deer would be afraid of them and run away. Our neighbor was shocked, and of course felt silly... but hey, at least now he doesn't have to worry about Ginormo-fox getting his kids either.

We have a really large flock of Turkeys that frequent the back yard (My step-sister's cat liked to mess with them, those buggers take off like an anvil with chicken wings though, and make a crap ton of noise when doing so), and a few giant red-headed woodpeckers. Our cats have brought back a few presents in the forms of rabbits, squirrels, chipmunks and such. We had an opossum taking up residence under our shed that had to be caught and removed by animal control because it liked to torment the cats through the sliding glass window in the middle of the night. Some of the chipmunks back there chewed through the wires of our pool heater, two years in a row.

Locally, because of the preserve, and our location on the Mohawk River (some decent cliffs at a few points, and some really low-lying wetlands and coves at others) we have spotted some bald eagles, great herons, a ridiculous amount of hawks, and some really gigantic "crows." A pair of mountain lions have been reported once in a while, there are a few wolves here and there, and lots of small coyotes and foxes.

I can honestly say that I've never personally seen a person attacked by any of these critters, but I'm sure it's happened a few times over the years. I will say that I have come across many large prey animals torn to shreds while walking through the woods/hiking around my friend's porperty (she lives on a farm/forest in east-bumble-hoe-down-Rexford).
I would agree with Tom though, tell everyone coming to your house to bring umbrellas or something for protection (or at least cover their heads and upper body with a jacket or poncho) and keep calling whoever you can to get the hawks taken care of. I'm sure there's some agency out there that can catch them and take them somewhere else like they did with the great-horned owl that we had attacking pets.
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Post by PeterC »

You don't need a bat; a tennis or squash racket works just as well and is not considered an aggressive device.
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Post by Tom »

PeterC wrote:You don't need a bat; a tennis or squash racket works just as well and is not considered an aggressive device.
Exactly! Just to be clear, I'm not advocating killing the bird at all. On the other hand, if I were in your situation, I wouldn't go outside without something in my hand. I just can't hold still while any animal tries to injure me. Something like a tennis racket or an umbrella should allow you to ward off any attack and simultaneously make it clear to anyone during or after the fact that you weren't just being malicious.

The calls are for a similar purpose. They will not come and move the bird no matter what you say. I don't even think they can do it TBH. But you are making a record, it shows you tried to make the authorities do something, but in the end you were left with the problem on your own.

Here's hoping the babies hatch soon and mama is too busy trying to keep up with feeding them to be aggressive any further.
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Post by PeteH »

pugbuddy wrote:We've had the occassional hawk floating around midtown (not in the boonies at all!) but they've never attacked. I do worry about my dogs (Pugs, in general, are not built for actual survival and the Frenchie is not a powerful defender of the yard either).
i was visiting TU with my son a couple weeks ago, and all along the Turnpike there were big honkin' hawks sitting on every fencepost.
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Post by Syd »

Then keep your eyes open next year (assuming that they only use the nest until the hatchlings can fend for themselves) at about the same time and attempt to keep them from using the nest next year. You =may not be able to defend yourself once they are there, but you should be able to encourage them to nest elsewhere.
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Post by TVB »

I found this web page (written for people raising chickens and such), which might offer some ideas you can use. The key point I got from it is that it is legal to frighten protected raptors... if you can.
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Post by LunaP »

AWinn, you have a badass cat!

Tom wrote:
PeterC wrote:You don't need a bat; a tennis or squash racket works just as well and is not considered an aggressive device.
Exactly! Just to be clear, I'm not advocating killing the bird at all. On the other hand, if I were in your situation, I wouldn't go outside without something in my hand. I just can't hold still while any animal tries to injure me. Something like a tennis racket or an umbrella should allow you to ward off any attack and simultaneously make it clear to anyone during or after the fact that you weren't just being malicious.

The calls are for a similar purpose. They will not come and move the bird no matter what you say. I don't even think they can do it TBH. But you are making a record, it shows you tried to make the authorities do something, but in the end you were left with the problem on your own.

Here's hoping the babies hatch soon and mama is too busy trying to keep up with feeding them to be aggressive any further.

This reminds me, that not only do we have tennis rackets, we have a small, tennis racket shaped bug swatter that emits a small electric shock :twisted: I'm sure it wouldn't be enough of a shock to harm the big bastard, but make him think twice about swooping again, or develop a fear of tennis rackets, yessir...

The baby has hatched, mom and I heard it last week, it sounded like only one. There are times we go out and see no hawks, and times we go out and see both. It SEEMS like only the male (which is BIG, apparently) is doing the attacking, but we can't be 100% certain of that since many of the swoops come from behind.


Syd wrote:Then keep your eyes open next year (assuming that they only use the nest until the hatchlings can fend for themselves) at about the same time and attempt to keep them from using the nest next year. You =may not be able to defend yourself once they are there, but you should be able to encourage them to nest elsewhere.

The aim is to get them to move the nest. But if not, they have already talked at least of moving or taking down BOTH nests for us after nesting season is done with for exactly this reason.

TVB wrote:I found this web page (written for people raising chickens and such), which might offer some ideas you can use. The key point I got from it is that it is legal to frighten protected raptors... if you can.

I read a webpage that said something similar, it's only real suggestion was pyrotechnics, haha. Unfortunately fireworks are mostly illegal here in the lame 'ol Commonwealth. If this shit continues til July for some reason... it's ON. Like Donkey Kong.
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Post by TVB »

Sorry, forgot to include the web link: http://icwdm.org/handbook/birds/HawksOwls.asp
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Post by Tom »

We have a little fledgling hawk who's become a regular in the yard right now. My rooster just watches his and growls (deep "gah-rooo" sound- pretty funny). The young hawk just sits in our big avocado tree and watches the birds and cries "Skree skree skree skree!". He sounds like a baby hawk in the nest crying for his mama "Come feed Me!!" It is actually kind of cute except for the fact that he's watching my birds while he does it. He seems really frustrated, "You mean I have to find my own food now?" Poor thing.

Hope he gets the hang of hunting soon. Ground squirrels and gophers and cottontails are everywhere right now.
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Post by Quo Vadimus »

Not sure if hawks are as smart as crows, but the folks who've been attacked may have to be on guard for a long time to come...

http://news.discovery.com/animals/angry ... 10628.html
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Post by Tom »

Quo Vadimus wrote:Not sure if hawks are as smart as crows, but the folks who've been attacked may have to be on guard for a long time to come...

http://news.discovery.com/animals/angry ... 10628.html
I don't think so. This isn't a grudge issue (like crows have sometimes), just some over enthusiastic nest protecting. Once the young are out of the nest, the hawks shouldn't care anymore about the location of any perceived threat.
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Post by LunaP »

Tom wrote:We have a little fledgling hawk who's become a regular in the yard right now. My rooster just watches his and growls (deep "gah-rooo" sound- pretty funny). The young hawk just sits in our big avocado tree and watches the birds and cries "Skree skree skree skree!". He sounds like a baby hawk in the nest crying for his mama "Come feed Me!!" It is actually kind of cute except for the fact that he's watching my birds while he does it. He seems really frustrated, "You mean I have to find my own food now?" Poor thing.

Hope he gets the hang of hunting soon. Ground squirrels and gophers and cottontails are everywhere right now.
OMG TOO FUNNY, I didn't know roosters growled!!
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Post by kellysmith »

thats a really funny story but hav you tried calling animal ppl who care about whatts going on??? lik instead of animal CONTROL how about animal RESCUE???? they may better understand these behaviors or refer someone to you who cares about preserving them and protecting you at same time...hey...did you crash on your scooter????
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Post by JHScoot »

that whole story was awesome

lunap you have the most dangerous sort of life, yes?

ah yes, she lived to tell :)
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Post by Tom »

kellysmith wrote:thats a really funny story but hav you tried calling animal ppl who care about whatts going on??? lik instead of animal CONTROL how about animal RESCUE???? they may better understand these behaviors or refer someone to you who cares about preserving them and protecting you at same time...hey...did you crash on your scooter????
That's a good idea. They won't be able to come and help you physically, but if you want to talk to folks who might be able to give you some great advice, these people are very knowledgable.
http://www.ojairaptorcenter.org/
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