Sym Wolf 150

[Mutt the Hoople]

Okay... So far I have looked at the Sym wolf... I like it a lot. Itnis relatively light and manageable ... Though I just like the idea of a scooter better. However, I can sit on the wolf comfortably.

The SYMBA... Cool, but not so sure I love how it shifts

Will be looking at the Kymco People 150
And the Aprillia Scarabeo... I think that one is a 200

The weight of the Scarabeo.... Is a bit off putting. In face the People above 150 are significantly heavier as well. Why do they weigh more than the Wolf? Yikes.

Anyone have any ideas? Unless it is a lot of weigh... I think manageability is more an issue as getting it through the gate where I park it is the problem. My Buddy is super for that. I just want to be able to use more roads than I can. I really did not see myself enjoying this as much as I do.

[pdxrita]

My partner has a People 150 and to me it feels really top heavy compared to my Buddy. It also has a much taller seat height. The ride is definitely much smoother than a Buddy and it has plenty of power. But I think it would be harder to maneuver in your situation because of the weight distribution. That's really just as important as overall weight when it comes to slow speed handling.

Personally, I think the Wolf looks really cool. I know a lot of people on this thread have encouraged you towards a larger bike, but it sounds like you don't really need that. I've also found myself eyeing small motorcycles when I see them. There's no budget (or room in the garage!) for one now, but maybe there's one for me in the distant future.

[Hwarang]

Ha, it figures there would be a huge thread here. I have been considering the Wolf 150 lately. If anyone has more info, I'd be glad to hear it.

The tl;dr of my situation:

In 2009 I bought a Buddy 125. I looooooove it. It's paid off and needs only minor maintenance. Last year, I bought a full size moto (2007 Triumph Bonneville). I also looooooove that. Since then, when I ride the Buddy, I like it a lot less. I feel bad for even saying that! But the smaller wheel base and the very light weight make it feel so unstable and wobbly in comparison, I'm not liking that.

Then I hear about this Wolf 150. It's beautiful. It's the Scarlett Johanssen of little bikes. I want it. The only problem is that, for me, it occupies the same space as my Buddy. Not literally, I mean how I think of it, and how I'd use it. It would be my city ride. Commute to work. Have fun. Take shorter trips, etc. I have no good reason to sell the Buddy. It's paid off, in great condition and only needs minor maintenance for expected things. But, I really only want a big bike and a little bike in the garage. If I sell it, I won't get a ton of money for it. I don't need the money for the Wolf, either (although it would be nice to subsidize the Wolf with the Buddy sale).

I'm very interested in hearing from scooterists who have ridden the Wolf, their impressions of it ... and all the general stuff about build quality, power and the like.

(yes, I read the various reviews online).

So what would you do?

Thanks!

[Chessy1]

Anyone have any ideas?

Since I live in the St. Louis metro area, I'll say that the Wolf 150 will get you anywhere you want to go, just stay off of 70 & 270. It'll be plenty fast enough for the Great River Road.

I did look at the Sym HD200 recently and I liked the scooter, but ended up buying a leftover 2010 Honda Sh150i as it was about the same price (with big Honda incentives) as the leftover 2009 Sym. I was a little less impressed with the Kymco's, but that's just my opinion as they are rated highly. Oh, if you have not looked at it, Honda will start selling the PCX 150 this May (they currently have a 125cc model) which will have 14" wheels, top 60 mph, and be rated for better than 100 mpg (not to mention be fuel injected which is really nice on cold mornings).

Anyways, if you are looking for a big wheeled scooter, I would also say that you should look closely at the 250cc range. The Aprilia Sportcity is nice and Sym will again be selling the Citycom 300i (263 cc). Good Luck!

[Dooglas]

So what would you do?

Since you asked . When faced with your situation - I got a bigger scooter (a GTS in my case - the bigger wheels, greater weight, and additional power give it a much more stable feel on the road than a lighter scooter). I feel your pain, I have a small scooter, a big scooter (or two) and a motorcycle. Hard to pick.

[Hwarang]

So what would you do?

Since you asked . When faced with your situation - I got a bigger scooter (a GTS in my case - the bigger wheels, greater weight, and additional power give it a much more stable feel on the road than a lighter scooter). I feel your pain, I have a small scooter, a big scooter (or two) and a motorcycle. Hard to pick.

But then I won't own the Wolf! /FIRSTWORLDPROBLEMS.

[JHScoot]

Are small wheels really that unstable, or is it just the sensation the rider does not like?

I ask because I am a "scooterist" that has never rode a big wheeled scooter. 10in-12in has been my entire experience. They feel fine up to 65mph or so.

Bumps and things don't bother much. I just ride around them most of the time. If i run into road work it can be tough. But that isn't often and i can usually ride around it, or turn off it soon enough. But i don't often note instability.

[ericalm]

Are small wheels really that unstable, or is it just the sensation the rider does not like?

A little of both? Some scooters feel rather unstable. Everything's relative and people gauge their response by what they're used to. A lot of Vespa riders find the Buddy unstable at first, but once you ride it for a while, it's clearly not.

In general, I don't like big-wheeled scooters. That "stability" can be illusory and it's achieved at the expense of handling and turning radius.

Tall wheels will turn better on long curves at high speeds.

Most of the scooters that feature tall wheels, with possible exception of Kymco People, are meant more for cruising than weaving through tight traffic. They tend to be bigger and heavier and don't handle as easily or (to me) well as smaller ones.

I haven't taken the SYM Wolf through any tight maneuvers. Not my bike and I don't want to get too crazy on it. BUT I really like the size and weight and handling of something like this much more than, say, a SYM HD200.

[Mutt the Hoople]

Funny you mentioned the Sym HD 200 Eric. I just test rode one and it seems like the best of both worlds and will make a good buddy for my Buddy. Plus the dealership offered my an excellent deal on one.... If I can live with the boring pale silver. I love the red, but if I order one, it will be a new model and I won't get the deal on it. The silver is new, just not this years model. I like the rounded looks of The People better but when I rode and compared them... I liked the Sym better. I could still get my feet down too, all 5'3" of me... Not quite as comfortably as on the Buddy but not bad. And moving it around wasn't as bad as I had thought either. This scooter thing.... It's a slippery slope isn't it? Like shoes, purses, and guitars ...sigh.

[Syd]

Funny you mentioned the Sym HD 200 Eric. I just test rode one and it seems like the best of both worlds and will make a good buddy for my Buddy. Plus the dealership offered my an excellent deal on one.... If I can live with the boring pale silver. I love the red, but if I order one, it will be a new model and I won't get the deal on it. The silver is new, just not this years model. I like the rounded looks of The People better but when I rode and compared them... I liked the Sym better. I could still get my feet down too, all 5'3" of me... Not quite as comfortably as on the Buddy but not bad. And moving it around wasn't as bad as I had thought either. This scooter thing.... It's a slippery slope isn't it? Like shoes, purses, and guitars ...sigh.

I don't think you'll be disappointed, Mutt. Eric's dislike of the HD200 is his only shortcoming.

[Mutt the Hoople]

I really thought this was going to be a no brainer... I saw the Wolf Classic and loved it. I love the People 150 a lot ... Didn't care so much for the Scarabeo. Even though I'm learning to ride with a clutch... For the city I can see where it could be a real pain. Even though I wasn't to go out on some of the roads that are 45mph to 55mph.... I have to get to them. And the stop and go traffic, up Delmar, Skinker, forget Kingshighway most of the time, Hampton... It's insane. And they are doing a lot of interstate works so traffic in the city is even heavier. Not to sound lazy, but the twist and go thing has some real appeal. At the same time I prefer a car with a stick, so go figure. So I was excited over the People 150 until I mentioned The Great River Road on occasion, and that is when the HD 200 came up. I tried them both, I walked around with them to see how manageable they were to park, lock etc. they were both okay. The seat height felt better on the HD 200 ... Go figure because it looked so much bigger, but I could get both feet on the ground. So now.... ??? I'm not buying anything until I take the course and get my license. the part that has me a bit off ofThe Wolf is that the scooter has more options to carry stuff. Not a cool reason but a practical one. I just want something that I will love in its own way like I love my buddy. I'm hooked.

[ericalm]

Funny you mentioned the Sym HD 200 Eric. I just test rode one and it seems like the best of both worlds and will make a good buddy for my Buddy. Plus the dealership offered my an excellent deal on one.... If I can live with the boring pale silver. I love the red, but if I order one, it will be a new model and I won't get the deal on it. The silver is new, just not this years model. I like the rounded looks of The People better but when I rode and compared them... I liked the Sym better. I could still get my feet down too, all 5'3" of me... Not quite as comfortably as on the Buddy but not bad. And moving it around wasn't as bad as I had thought either. This scooter thing.... It's a slippery slope isn't it? Like shoes, purses, and guitars ...sigh.

I don't think you'll be disappointed, Mutt. Eric's dislike of the HD200 is his only shortcoming.

Ha, not at all true, but thanks!

I don't dislike the GD200 at all! It's really good for what it is, which is a big wheeled 200cc scoot. When folks are looking for something in this class, I'll gladly recommend it.

I just have a preference for smaller for most of the riding I do.

[Hwarang]

Are small wheels really that unstable, or is it just the sensation the rider does not like?

I ask because I am a "scooterist" that has never rode a big wheeled scooter. 10in-12in has been my entire experience. They feel fine up to 65mph or so.

Bumps and things don't bother much. I just ride around them most of the time. If i run into road work it can be tough. But that isn't often and i can usually ride around it, or turn off it soon enough. But i don't often note instability.

Well, I didn't notice it at all until I rode a full size moto ....

[neotrotsky]

Well, when it comes to SYM, I think shit just got real:

My wife saw a Symba on the road today on the way to Target. She has been asking questions all night about them.

I think there may be another Symba for her instead of a new Stella for me coming up this next season.

[ericalm]

Well, when it comes to SYM, I think shit just got real:

My wife saw a Symba on the road today on the way to Target. She has been asking questions all night about them.

I think there may be another Symba for her instead of a new Stella for me coming up this next season.

My wife, who very much does not want another scooter, pauses for red Symbas every time. Her look lingers. She won't say much but I know she digs 'em.

[Syd]

I don't dislike the GD200 at all!

[Keys]

Well, I now have over 11,000 absolutely trouble-free miles on my HD200. I had to put a new rear tire on about 150 miles ago, but besides that, nothing. Haven't even had to change out the belt...I have one, but the old one still looks perfect.

[Syd]

Well, I now have over 11,000 absolutely trouble-free miles on my HD200. I had to put a new rear tire on about 150 miles ago, but besides that, nothing. Haven't even had to change out the belt...I have one, but the old one still looks perfect.

Be extra careful after you change the belt, Keys. Less than a week after changing out my belt (at 16000 miles) that guy in the E-Class pulled out right in front of me!

[Southerner]

Well, when it comes to SYM, I think shit just got real:

My wife saw a Symba on the road today on the way to Target. She has been asking questions all night about them.

I think there may be another Symba for her instead of a new Stella for me coming up this next season.

My wife, who very much does not want another scooter, pauses for red Symbas every time. Her look lingers. She won't say much but I know she digs 'em.

It combines a lot of good things. It's a motorcycle but still step-thru. Access for repair and maintenance is easy. It's not heavy. It has a bicyclish aspect that makes it approachable.

What's not to like?

[Dooglas]

It combines a lot of good things. It's a motorcycle but still step-thru. Access for repair and maintenance is easy. It's not heavy. It has a bicyclish aspect that makes it approachable. What's not to like?

That is exactly what I thought. A Honda Cub (50) was my first scooter/motorcycle.

[ericalm]

I don't dislike the GD200 at all!

Typing slip! Oops.

[neotrotsky]

Well, when it comes to SYM, I think shit just got real:

My wife saw a Symba on the road today on the way to Target. She has been asking questions all night about them.

I think there may be another Symba for her instead of a new Stella for me coming up this next season.

My wife, who very much does not want another scooter, pauses for red Symbas every time. Her look lingers. She won't say much but I know she digs 'em.

It combines a lot of good things. It's a motorcycle but still step-thru. Access for repair and maintenance is easy. It's not heavy. It has a bicyclish aspect that makes it approachable.

What's not to like?

Oh, I don't fault the bike at all (Symba or Cub)! I was just surprised. She's always wanted a moped, but she knows the fun of trying to find rare parts for out-of-date machinery and the 30mph max limitations. To her, this is "less intimidating" than my Rattler. If it gets her active in trying new things, then I'll make sure she gets one

[NathanielSalzman]

I finally got some seat time on the Wolf Classic 150. Very cool bike. My thoughts are over at ScooterFile.

http://www.scooterfile.com/reviews/sf-f ... assic-150/

[Swordsman]

Aha! I couldn't remember the name of these back when this was first posted, but I just ran across them again! The Misfit looks like a crapton of fun!

http://www.clevelandcyclewerks.com/



Youtube results with reviews:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... 14.0...0.0.

~SM

[ericalm]

Aha! I couldn't remember the name of these back when this was first posted, but I just ran across them again! The Misfit looks like a crapton of fun!

http://www.clevelandcyclewerks.com/

Beware. There are some pretty negative reviews out t here on this bike and the early reports are that quality isn't great. I was excited about them until I started reading some of the early reactions.

(One in particular: http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/ ... 91249.html)

I know some distributors and others who've spent time with the CCW bikes and weren't at all impressed.

You can only cut manufacturing costs by so much before you start to cut into quality, which is what I think may have happened here.

I'd still check one out and give it a test ride, though.

[desmolicious]

Aha! I couldn't remember the name of these back when this was first posted, but I just ran across them again! The Misfit looks like a crapton of fun!

http://www.clevelandcyclewerks.com/

Beware. There are some pretty negative reviews out t here on this bike and the early reports are that quality isn't great. I was excited about them until I started reading some of the early reactions.

(One in particular: http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/ ... 91249.html)

I know some distributors and others who've spent time with the CCW bikes and weren't at all impressed.

You can only cut manufacturing costs by so much before you start to cut into quality, which is what I think may have happened here.

I'd still check one out and give it a test ride, though.

Yeah, I was all jazzed about the CCW bikes until I read the motorcycle.com review.
I gotta give credit to mo.com. They have given many surprisingly honest reviews of bikes than other sites that just seem to give a review to please the mfg and advertising $$$.

[Southerner]

Thanks for posting the review. It looks like the owner is trying to make an honest machine on too tight of a budget. It also looks like they tried to include too much for the price.

The description about the welds reminds me of reviews of Japanese motorcycles back in the 70s. I could look at one and make up my own mind about sloppy welds, just as long as the overall bike is decently durable.

The flyshield is a nice little touch. The engine mod jumps the price up and the performance is only then comparable to a stock Japanese machne, only less reliable.

The wobbly instruments would get on my nerves but I don't shift by the tach anyway, never have.

Assuming the warranty is decent and the dealers are willing to work with you on any issues, I'd say take the reviews into account and if you like the bike for what it is, then buy it.

The better alternative would probably be to look for a used Japanese bike in the same category. A TU250 or Honda cbr250r should show up on the market for a decent price. Used, they will have no warranty but you probably won't need it, anyway.

Still, I wish the owner success and hope he gets the QC issues worked out. Nice to see more alternatives in this niche.

[Southerner]

I just picked up the April/May issue of Cafe Racer and it gives a small mention about the Wolf in the Paddock section. There is also a full-page add, which is pretty funny since it shows the bike draped with a short-skirted model showing mas cleavage more like a Ducati ad.

Incidentally, there ads in said mag for Mods/Rockers events in Cleveland on July 6-8 and Chicago June 15 & 16, if anyone here is interested.

[ericalm]

I just picked up the April/May issue of Cafe Racer and it gives a small mention about the Wolf in the Paddock section. There is also a full-page add, which is pretty funny since it shows the bike draped with a short-skirted model showing mas cleavage more like a Ducati ad.

Oh, I was all over that.
http://www.scooterfile.com/sf-feature/s ... -the-moon/

They changed it the day after our post. The ad was probably placed before they changed the art. Those rather tasteless worms are out of the can.

[Southerner]

Call me sexist, but I think of it as a win-win. You get to see a pretty girl and laugh at the absurdity at the same time.

[Swordsman]

Aha! I couldn't remember the name of these back when this was first posted, but I just ran across them again! The Misfit looks like a crapton of fun!

http://www.clevelandcyclewerks.com/

Beware. There are some pretty negative reviews out t here on this bike and the early reports are that quality isn't great. I was excited about them until I started reading some of the early reactions.

(One in particular: http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/ ... 91249.html)

I know some distributors and others who've spent time with the CCW bikes and weren't at all impressed.

You can only cut manufacturing costs by so much before you start to cut into quality, which is what I think may have happened here.

I'd still check one out and give it a test ride, though.

The only negatives that really jumped out at me was the sloppy welding and the instruments. The instruments... yeah, that's pretty shoddy. Sloppy welds... my Buell had some pretty gnarly looking work done on that big slab of an aluminum frame it used. So nasty that some of the plastic body work didn't fit around it quite right. However, that didn't make it any less fun. Depending on how well the engine holds up, it would be a great little bike for someone that likes to continually tinker and improve, just like the review said. Looks like a good project platform. For someone wanting a competent, finished machine right out of the bag.... well, the Misfit probably isn't the way to go.

Nothing at all wrong with the Wolf, but that extra 100cc in the Misfit sure would be nice.

~SM

[Mutt the Hoople]

No offense but if that was the first ad that I'd seen I would have never checked out that product much less started this thread. I checked out the product because I was looking for a scoot with bigger wheels and a higher displacement than my Buddy, Which I love BTW. I plan on keeping my Buddy, but I found that I love riding a whole lot more... A LOT MORE, like off the map a lot more, than I thought I would. The Buddy is fantastic for riding in the city, but some of the roads I am on have speeds 45 or even a bit over... Which I avoid on my scooter. Plus St Louis does not take great care of the roads so it is a pothole avoidance extravaganza. While looking for a scoot with bigger wheels, one of the local scooter places that carry Sym carried the Wolf as well.... As it would appeal to scooterists.... And it must... Look how long this thread is. It looks like they assumed correctly. I'm not a "biker Chick"... I'm a Scooter Girl. An ad like that absolutely turns me OFF. I'd love to see what the other females here have to say about it. I have never been some kind of radical feminist by any means, but I've paid my dues. When I went to SiUE for my bachelors in 1980, believe it or not, even at that late date the art department was a horribly sexist place.... The MALE advisors steered the female students away from BFAs because " they did not want to waste our time on us since we (were just there to find mates and get married)". I kid you not.... An advisor gave me those exact words. And now... How many years later, without getting too political here, things seem to be going very backwards for woman. Look at the women on this board. I think it is fair to say that we tend to think outside of the box. The Sym Wolf is a motorcycle that has the potential to appeal to us... And an ad that reminds one of a 70s era conversion van does not quite do it. The old "You meet the nicest pele on a Honda ad" would have been better if they had wanted to go retro. All of my life I have been fighting perceived stereo-types. Besides riding a scooter, and maybe even at some point riding a cycle, playing the electric guitar and bass, and being able to install my own garbage disposal without flooding the kitchen or electrocuting myself, I still consider myself to be feminine. It MY life,please let me define myself thank you very much.

So, Scooter riding ladies.... What dontu think?

[Swordsman]

LOL, maybe this will make you feel better. It's part of an ad campaign by Ural using the amount of rider gear to visually represent the different accessory levels of the bike. Needless to say, they're showcasing the stripped down version here.



~SM

[Mutt the Hoople]

Sigh. Remember the Sienfeld episode "There's good naked and bad naked"? Lol

[theflash784]

Actually- leaving a little to the imagination is much better. I wuld rather see a good looking guy in swim trunks than in a Speedo. I didn't care much for the Sym Wold ad either. It would be one thing if it was just in a male magazine but not the best ad if you're trying to attract a wider audience. If I was even considering buying that type of motorcycle, I wouldn't because of the ad.

[Dooglas]

Remember where the Ural motorcycle is made. The Russians even like their President to show a little skin.

[Syd]

Eeek! So white! Where are my sunglasses?!?

[Mutt the Hoople]

Actually- leaving a little to the imagination is much better. I wuld rather see a good looking guy in swim trunks than in a Speedo. I didn't care much for the Sym Wold ad either. It would be one thing if it was just in a male magazine but not the best ad if you're trying to attract a wider audience. If I was even considering buying that type of motorcycle, I wouldn't because of the ad.

Exactly. If part of the reason that I never went near a motorcycle was because of certain stereotypes... Got a scooter because I found th crowd less threatening and more inclusive... Began to see two wheels differently and then find out about this little cycle that would definitely appeal to scooterists as well as women... It is very comfortable for me, and I am only about 5'3" ish... More comfortable than even the People 150 or te Sym HD200... Which are okay but on the Wolf, both of my feet are completely flat on the ground... It has great retro styling, and is very easy to handle.... That ad pretty much pushed me back to the idea of a larger scooter instead. I like the ease of a scooter, and though I don't have a problem with shifting... I prefer a stick on my car.... The ad really misses the boat for me. I think they are missing a great opportunity to attract new riders. My own opinion.

[Swordsman]

Eeek! So white! Where are my sunglasses?!?

Pshh, I could easily out-glare him. Pasties, unite!

~SM

[Southerner]

If I may suggest it, the photo may have been chosen by SYM's Taiwanese execs, who may not be in tune with American sensibilities.

But that Ural ad may have turned me off the Solo.
.

[Mutt the Hoople]

Lol.... Better than fake-bake overly tanned. Don't mind pale.... But I have lots of English friends. I don't bake away either... I may be chubby, but at least my skin doesn't look like a Coach bag. I'm well preserved for 50

[Mutt the Hoople]

That naked dude needs to watch out for his side pipe.
Bare feet and all.

[Syd]

Eeek! So white! Where are my sunglasses?!?

Pshh, I could easily out-glare him. Pasties, unite!

~SM

I know what you mean. I've been asked not to wear shorts myself.

[Keys]

I have this wonderful phrase I put on the t-shirts I sold here on MB; "Proudly Ignoring Popular Opinion". The place this leads me to is one where I am totally unaffected by the ad. My decision would be based entirely on whether our not I like the machinery and it meets my needs. My main beef with the Wolf ad is that the model is covering the bike. She could be totally naked our she could be Mrs. Doubtfire...don't care. If something that tame offends you, prepare yourself to spend your entire life being offended. Frankly, life should be bigger than that.

[Mutt the Hoople]

It does not offend me, but it is a turn off. Sorry, it just is. Maybe if you were a female, whose mother always told you how you would never amount to anything and you had a dad who told you the opposite, you would get it. I spent my life doing things that I wanted to do, and was told I shouldn't. It is not like anyone gave me some good advice. I wanted to be an architect, and was nothing but discouraged. I became an artist... Have done pretty well too. I have never cared for conventionally "girly" things... Except for high fashion. I learned to fly a plane, I fence, I play an electric guitar, and at this point in my life I feel like I have earned the right to define myself. I don't think of myself, or woman, as OBJECTS to be used to sell something to a man. I can't pick up a guitar magazine without seeing tons of ads that are the same. Granted, many more guys play electric guitars than women.... Maybe it is because females have never felt very welcome. Just a thought. Would you be turned on by an automobile ad that said, " and the glove compartment is just right to store your favorite small clutch and lipstick, and the interior is by Kate Spade. I don't think you would be rushing out to buy that model. If the Wolf is aimed only at men, then fine, have your ad. But they have a product that is cool, yet non-threatening, small, easy, light, and would appeal to a variety of possible riders who never considered a motor cycle before.

[theflash784]

I am sure the Sym Wolf is a great little motorcycle. I started out years ago riding a small motorocycle when I was 19. I had never heard of scooters way back then, never saw any so I bought a small motorcycle to learn on without killing myself. That was over 30 years ago. I decided to get back into riding when I did see someone with a scooter- it was a 250 cc and I learned they weren't just "mopeds". I am a 53 year old female who worked in law enforcement for over 30 yrs starting in the 1979. There were not many females in that career when I began and the sterotyping was rampted. I am glad to say (at least where I worked) that has changed. When I retired, my captain was a female- a first for our dept. I am not or ever have been a femanazi but I do not like see women in skimpy outfits selling products. If guys want to look at them- that's fine but it doesn't make me interested in their product. I will just take my business elsewhere and leave it at that. I don't care much for popular opinion either. I don't buy designer clothes- I buy what is comfortable and at a decent price. I don't care what others say or think. I am comfortable being me.

[Mutt the Hoople]

I'm with you Flash. I have to admit, though I love my comfy jeans and Tshirts... I'm a shoe hound... And I like to dress up for some things... Or at least have a certain style. Can't a wont pay a ton of money or it though..... But with Marshall's and Steinmart and Nordstoms Rack I don't have to. But I hear you. It's getting better in some ways, but lately it feels a bit backwards.

[Keys]

Wow. I started quite a firestorm here! I was just saying if you allow someone else to color your decision making process by something as trivial as the model in an advertisement, that's hardly empowering.

[Mutt the Hoople]

I get what you are saying. You're right. I do that, it just gets a bit old.thats all.

[Mutt the Hoople]

Not to hijack this thread, but in all fairness, for me it goes like this. This is not aimed at anyone here. I really like this group and have felt nothing but kindness from everyone here. I am also not anti-male. I also accept that there are differences.

But there ar so many things that we females have just been more or less forced to accept, and it just gets very old, and I think it is fair enough to expect that attitudes should change a bit.

For example. I have been a studio artist for over 25 years. I worked in galleries for not quite that long, and I was a gallery director for two rather prestigious places. I have also taught. As a lot of you, both male and female know too well, the economy is horrible and a lotnofnus need jobs, and I am no exception. So I have been job hunting for what feels like forever, and my age is not working for me. I realize I may not find something in my field, and have been looking at all kinds of jobs. My brother told me that Guitar Center was hiring... He said I know more about guitars than most people, (true... I have even wound my own pickups), and that I should apply. I eventually did. I can sell too... I was the department manager for the cosmetics department at a major department store when I was in grad school... Worked my way up from being a CPU Ted manager for Lancôme cosmetics. But not so much as a phone interview. I ran into a guy who works there, who actually showed me a guitar I was looking at, at one of the local record stores. He apologized to me and said I did not get considered for a job, because most of the clientele is male, and I just would not have a lot of credibility regarding guitars with them... Ifntheyngot to know me, perhaps, but you are expected to sell ... So... There it goes. Okay. I do see his point. And yet, how many situations have women had to just accept, because we did not have the choice. Until fairly recently, I had a MALE gynecologist. I had to trust my most personal female medical issues to a person who, to put it mildly, did not, does not, never will have the same parts, the same hormones, the same issues. When I told him that I felt lousy, had put on 60 pounds in less than a year, went from a size 6-8 to a size 16, exercised, and not only tried my best to eat decent food, but was now terrified of eating at all because of the weight gain, was eating under 600 calories a day and was still putting on weight. He told me that I was lying, that I needed to eat less and exercise more. I was roller blading 12 miles a day, almost every day at that time. I got fed up and went to another doctor, HE told me I was lying, did not want to be responsible, and was just being difficult, then I went to ANOTHER doctor, he did a blood work up, gave me a full check up and guess what? I had an ovarian cyst... That turned out to be the size of a large cabbage. Voila'. My best friend is a college professor, she was hired in for less than her male peers, is now ready to retire, and she never caught up to their salary, even though she spent more time teaching, and was tenured. I have spent a lot of time telling myself,moh well, boys will be boys, they don't mean anything by it. But sometimes, I think they do mean it, and don't care. And if they were treated in the same manner, they would not like it. Not trying to vilify anyone, but if you have never experienced discrimination because of something you can't help, the. You might get it. Though I can feel bad for people who have suffered from racism, religious bigotry, being discriminated against for being gay... I can never truly know just how it feels. I do know what it feels like to be discriminated against and stereotyped for being female. I do not dwell on it, I get past it. But it feels like shit. Make no mistake about it. It makes a person feel helpless, not appreciated, and it feels like shit. End of sermon.

So.... How about that Wolf 150 Classic... Or Sym HD200... I'm really on the fence here.