Triple "R" : Roughhouse Running Rough

DIZZEE1.6 · Post by **DIZZEE1.6** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:12 pm

I started my R50 up this morning before my commute to work and it did NOT seem happy. It almost sounded like a 4-stroke with a miss... That's the best way I can describe it! What could be causing it to run like this? I have noticed what seems to be a slow, steady decline in low-end torque... Especially up-hill and from a dead stop, but maybe this is another manifestation of that same problem... What do you guys think? I'm still learning this 2T and I know you guys are more knowledgeable than myself! Please give me some ideas that I can check off and figure out what's happening to my Roughy! I've come to love this scooter and I hate the fact that it's been running under it's potential.... again, Please Help! And Thank You!!!

Lotrat · Post by **Lotrat** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:41 pm

What's the spark plug look like?
Is your exhaust on tight?
Air filter clean?
Did you do anything to it just before this all started?

Rippinyarn · Post by **Rippinyarn** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:04 pm

Tell us more - is there plenty of oil in the reservoir? Do you just a fuel system cleaner (like Sea Foam)? How many miles?

I hope that it's something simple...

DIZZEE1.6 · Post by **DIZZEE1.6** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:21 pm

Ok guys, I put this post up this morning because I was hoping some of you fellas would notice it and I could think and tinker a little while at work... So, I've figured out a couple things I think... So here goes:

1. I'm almost positive it's running lean. I removed the "elbow" tube in the stock intake recently AND realized that it's missing the inner foam filter... I would think to adjust the mix, but the Keihin carb is weird and I think the adjustment screw is "D" shaped. Do I need a special tool?
2. This is what I know has been done to it: it's been de-restricted in the exhaust and the CVT. The contra spring is red and I don't know the manufacturer to identify it's rating. Of course now I wonder what else is aftermarket in the CVT.
3. I use Seafoam in almost every fill-up have been spraying out the carb about once a week while running it on the center stand.

So, I haven't done that much modding to it, but the biggest changes started a little while after removing the washer in the tranny. When I first got it, acceleration was pretty damn good and it just ran better all around. I wanted more top end to accommodate some of the roads in my commute, which I got. It raised my top speed by at least 10mph. It is strang though, after the spacer removal, it seems to shift too soon like it won't wind "first" gear all the way out and doesn't have the ability to really accelerate in "top" gear. It does rev higher in "top" gear than "first " gear" however.
I just want my old acceleration and to keep my current top speed of 50 actual mph! I am thinking to get things back in order, I should first fix my air/fuel mixture issues and then put the proper adjustments in the CVT, like new rollers of proper weight, new contra spring, and new clutch springs if the clutch isn't toasted...
So, what do you think? Please be brutally honest and thorough with me, I'm a big boy and can take any and all criticisms!

Thank you very much for your input, and I'll do what ever needs doing to get my Roughy back to being a freakin' fast 50cc scooter!

Oh, almost forgot... I just put a new NGK plug and boot on this past Wed. I haven't checked it out yet, but I will! Mileage is low, about 1500 miles.

Thanks again!!

J.D.
Louisville, KY

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:45 pm

Did you take the clutch apart or the rollers out?

And put that little foam filter back in. 2T 50's are SUPER sensitive to airbox changes.

Lotrat · Post by **Lotrat** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:21 am

DIZZEE1.6 wrote: 1. I'm almost positive it's running lean. I removed the "elbow" tube in the stock intake recently AND realized that it's missing the inner foam filter... I would think to adjust the mix, but the Keihin carb is weird and I think the adjustment screw is "D" shaped. Do I need a special tool?

What's the spark plug look like? Don't mess with the mixture until you read the plug. A lean 2 stroke means you're not getting enough oil to lube the engine. Very bad.

2. This is what I know has been done to it: it's been de-restricted in the exhaust

Free-er flowing exhaust can cause a lean condition. How's the spark plug look?

3. I use Seafoam in almost every fill-up have been spraying out the carb about once a week while running it on the center stand.

Not needed this often.

I just put a new NGK plug and boot on this past Wed. I haven't checked it out yet, but I will! Mileage is low, about 1500 miles.

How did the old one look? No need to change the plug so soon.

Reading the plug is important on any engine. Even more so on a 2 stroke motor. This is a key part to troubleshoot your issue and to determine if you're running lean or rich.

nissanman · Post by **nissanman** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:01 am

Yes you need a special tool for the air/fuel adjustment for the "d" shaped screw. If it's happening all the time that is your most likely culprit, if it's only after a fuel up it could be a poorly vented gas cap. Most likely #1 though. I have to adjust my 110 at least twice a season for temperature differences with my modifications.

DIZZEE1.6 · Post by **DIZZEE1.6** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:15 am

OK, the reason I replaced the plug was because it was in poor condition. The center electrode was partially eroded and since I bought it used I wanted to have a fresh start to things, not a nasty plug of unknown age. The next thing I was going to do is pull the new plug and inspect it. I plan on taking it out tonight, so I can get back on here and relay that information.
Secondly, when I derestricted the CVT, I inspected the rollers( there were no obvious flat spots) and after the variator side was back together I noticed the red contra (torque) spring on the clutch side... I didn't dissasemble it to check the smaller clutch springs at that time. I guess none of that really matters until I get the thing back in tune and running a proper mix.
Question though, if it's running lean why would you not adjust the air/fuel mixture on the carb to offset that condition? Isn't that why it's there in the first place? I know it could need re-jetting, but wouldn't adjusting the mix prove/disprove having a lean running scooter? Also, is that odd shaped screw next to the idle adjustment Actually the air/fuel adjustment? I don't even know if it is or not! Lastly, does using a little Seafoam in every tank of gas seem excessive or were you talking about cleaning the carb so often?
Thanks guys for the timely respnses! I really appreciate your input and experience with the 2-stroke troubleshooting... I'm in desperate need of a resolution because my Roughhouse is the primary way I get to and from work 5 days a week, plus I just want it too run well because it's so fun and I want it to have a long, happy life! Let me know what ya think and when I get back in a bit I'll describe the spark plug's current condition after 4 days of commuting.... Thanks again!

J.D.
Louisville, KY

Lotrat · Post by **Lotrat** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:28 pm

DIZZEE1.6 wrote:Question though, if it's running lean why would you not adjust the air/fuel mixture on the carb to offset that condition? Isn't that why it's there in the first place? I know it could need re-jetting, but wouldn't adjusting the mix prove/disprove having a lean running scooter?

Here's what I've been getting at. You're assuming you're running lean. You want to make an adjustment without really knowing. Check the plug first. It's an easy first step. You may pull out a black plug which means you're running rich. What if you find that the plug is eroded like the first one? The original plug only had 1500 miles on it.

Also, is that odd shaped screw next to the idle adjustment Actually the air/fuel adjustment? I don't even know if it is or not!

Yes it is.

Lastly, does using a little Seafoam in every tank of gas seem excessive or were you talking about cleaning the carb so often?

I've never used the stuff, but it seams that most scooter riders have stock in that company. I tend not to use any additives.

iScootAroundTown · Post by **iScootAroundTown** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:48 pm

I just bought my R50 about 3 or 4 weeks ago. It has about 320 miles on it, and I'm having a very similar problem. I haven't done any mods to it, it's straight stock. Any suggestions on what may be wrong and what I can do to fix it?

Lotrat · Post by **Lotrat** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:27 pm

Clean/replace your spark plug and put in some fresh gas to start.