Bike racks and jerks...

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Thu May 03, 2012 3:47 pm

So,

for the 2nd time, a bicyclist chained their bike to the post AND to my zuma. When they did this, their handlebars scratched the living piss out of the font of my Zuma (which I am trying to sell...). it was the same bike each time.

Now, since it's very public, I just roll up, give some space, and cable lock it to a provided U bar in the ground. They put these all over an outdoor mall to make bike and 50cc scooter parking easy. This person also could have used any other bike spot if they were displeased with my parking.

Instead of waiting until the jerk returned, I simply used his bike as the lever by which to decimate his chain. This was not kind to his frame, and I noticed 2 days later his mangled bike is still strapped to the same bar.

on one hand, I feel like a jerk. I may have hobbled someone's transport. on the other hand, it's not like the bicycle has a plate, and the person seemed to deliberately find and vandalize my legally parked scoot. they would have also hobbled my ability to come and go as I please.

What do you guys think?

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Thu May 03, 2012 3:53 pm

I would have done the same thing, especially if I needed to leave first.

What kind of moron locks their vehicle to someone else's-- especially a stranger's!?
That's like parking people in at a local event. What if they need to leave before you do? Your car is going to get ticketed and towed (and usually damaged in the process because towing companies just don't care) at your expense.
If someone chains their bicycle to someone's scooter, obviously damaging it, and the scooterist needs to leave first, the idiot on the bike deserves the damage. Tough noogies- maybe next time they'll think about it before they do something stupid like that.

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Thu May 03, 2012 3:59 pm

wait so there were other available spots and this person chose to lock his bicycle to your scooter??

that's weird.

where is this? i might just ride by and take a picture.

something similar happened to me a few years ago with my bicycle at the Market Street Station on the 16th St. Mall. Someone locked their bicycle to the bike rack AND to my bicycle. I had to walk home, and then came back 2 days later and it was STILL there so I called an RTD security guard who called the police who came and cut the chain so I could get my bicycle.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Thu May 03, 2012 4:05 pm

Un-Designer,

That's exactly where it was. 16th and Market on the West side of the street. When I pull up on Tue, there is generally no one where at 7am, so I slide up and put my cable lock as low as possible. They only put like 20 of those things right there, + a large bike only rack where the shuttle picks up.

Methinks this person just wanted to teach me that this was 'bike only' territory.

As of 10pm last night it was still there, very near the newspaper racks.

If you're that direction often, let me know! I'll buzz right down and meet you

.

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Thu May 03, 2012 4:26 pm

skully93 wrote:Un-Designer,

That's exactly where it was. 16th and Market on the West side of the street. When I pull up on Tue, there is generally no one where at 7am, so I slide up and put my cable lock as low as possible. They only put like 20 of those things right there, + a large bike only rack where the shuttle picks up.

Methinks this person just wanted to teach me that this was 'bike only' territory.

As of 10pm last night it was still there, very near the newspaper racks.

If you're that direction often, let me know! I'll buzz right down and meet you .

LOL... people. Maybe that person didn't know that 50cc scooters can park on sidewalks downtown. I've seen a handful of scooters parked there when I used to commute from there everyday. I kicked that commute though so I haven't taken an RTD bus from there in a while. Tomorrow I might be headed past there sometime in the morning.

pdxrita · Post by **pdxrita** » Thu May 03, 2012 6:05 pm

AWinn6889 wrote:I would have done the same thing, especially if I needed to leave first.

What kind of moron locks their vehicle to someone else's-- especially a stranger's!?
That's like parking people in at a local event. What if they need to leave before you do? Your car is going to get ticketed and towed (and usually damaged in the process because towing companies just don't care) at your expense.
If someone chains their bicycle to someone's scooter, obviously damaging it, and the scooterist needs to leave first, the idiot on the bike deserves the damage. Tough noogies- maybe next time they'll think about it before they do something stupid like that.

Since you and I seem to disagree so often, I just want to take this opportunity to say I agree with this 100%

! The jerk got what he/she deserved.

Hwarang · Post by **Hwarang** » Thu May 03, 2012 7:08 pm

I don't think you should chain your motor vehicle to a bicycle rack. Would you enjoy a pile of bikes in a scooter/motorcycle parking space? You should consider making amends (offer to pay for a new chain and repairs to his bike).

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Thu May 03, 2012 7:28 pm

I would have come back late at night and cut my bike free...THROUGH his frame...

I think what you did was totally fine...He started the battle...you didn't .

...yeah sorry, but I'm old school...Don't screw with my things and I'm a perfectly nice guy.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Thu May 03, 2012 7:39 pm

Hwarang wrote:I don't think you should chain your motor vehicle to a bicycle rack. Would you enjoy a pile of bikes in a scooter/motorcycle parking space? You should consider making amends (offer to pay for a new chain and repairs to his bike).

actually they aren't 'bike racks' they are upside-down U bars. there are bike only racks, but the u bars were specifically installed to accommodate bicycles AND scooters, as stated by Denver, with my tax pennies being just as good as theirs.

Plus, if we were going to compare, my time rates $25/hr, and the damage he did to the scooter (?). Probably more than his bike was worth.

I should also note I started parking at ones farther into the middle of the block (they put them every 50 feet or so, with extras at each end, every block, for 15 blocks). there were other empties on each side. He did it deliberately, multiple times.

Now, if the person were there, I'd have asked politely, and reminded him that I've as much right to be there, and we could continue the discussion from there. But, the joy of a 10 hour day, the damage done to my scoot, and no way to contact the person, I feel pretty justified. if I could have just slid it off, I certainly would have, but facing down waiting in the hot sun in armor with no determinate time, screw 'em. Even if they hadn't chained my scoot up, the damage is pretty annoying (not enough to me to resort to vandalism, esp since I have insurance....).

velobuff · Post by **velobuff** » Thu May 03, 2012 7:45 pm

Hwarang wrote:I don't think you should chain your motor vehicle to a bicycle rack. Would you enjoy a pile of bikes in a scooter/motorcycle parking space? You should consider making amends (offer to pay for a new chain and repairs to his bike).

In Colorado <50cc scooters are by law allowed to park at public bike racks.

lovemysan · Post by **lovemysan** » Thu May 03, 2012 10:00 pm

I buy some cheap harbor freight bolt cutters and big padlock for the next time. I'd cut his chain off my bike then politely chain through his wheel and lock it with my padlock. Might even put my number or my junkmail email address on it.

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Thu May 03, 2012 10:13 pm

Screw with the chain, screw with the person...I consider it crossing the line to screw up the transport. Just like scooters and motorcycles, with a few exceptions bicycles cost a lot more than most non-riders think. My daily rig (built from the frame up for uber-long distance multi-terrain commuting) was valued at $1,500-$2,000. It didn't look like it, but that was on purpose as a theft deterrent. Most serious bicycle commuters I know (not racers, not rec riders: car-lite or car-free riders) have rigs that average $1200+.

Seriously...toasting the frame? If you're going to be vengeful, pop a tire. How would you react if someone decided to get back at you by cutting a chunk out of your scooter's frame...or forks...or your rear suspension? Not cool.

Me...I would have cut the chain and either locked the bicycle back with my own lock or just left it unlocked.

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Thu May 03, 2012 10:13 pm

lovemysan wrote:I buy some cheap harbor freight bolt cutters and big padlock for the next time. I'd cut his chain off my bike then politely chain through his wheel and lock it with my padlock. Might even put my number or my junkmail email address on it.

HA! I like the way you think.

But you should chain it through his rear wheel AND his frame. Don't use your phone number though.

velobuff · Post by **velobuff** » Thu May 03, 2012 10:23 pm

Cheshire wrote: How would you react if someone decided to get back at you by cutting a chunk out of your scooter's frame...or forks...or your rear suspension? Not cool.

Did you read the original post? This jackhole intently immobilized his vehicle. I say the guy had it coming to him.

Post by **jmazza** » Thu May 03, 2012 11:35 pm

velobuff wrote:
Cheshire wrote: How would you react if someone decided to get back at you by cutting a chunk out of your scooter's frame...or forks...or your rear suspension? Not cool.
Did you read the original post? This jackhole intently immobilized his vehicle. I say the guy had it coming to him.

I agree. If someone deliberately locks their bike to my scooter I am of the mind that I have every right to get the chain off in whatever way doesn't damage the scooter.

If you'd had bolt cutters with you and still decided to use his bike as the lever that might be different. You don't seem like a violent guy and I'm thinking you just did what you needed to do, skully!

Stormswift · Post by **Stormswift** » Fri May 04, 2012 12:59 am

If someone did this to my scoot my assumption would be that they are trying to maroon my scooter overnight for the purpose of stealing my bike or planning to attack me if I am stuck outside late alone, a setup. There are criminals out there who know that majority of our citizens would be too polite and would be hesitant to do anything aggressive to solve this problem and would instead take a cab home or have a friend give them a ride, leaving the bike sitting overnight at the mercy of whoever wanted to take their ride.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Fri May 04, 2012 2:55 am

Easy solution: Take the toolkit out from under the seat, take the offending parts off they chained to your scooter. Then with one foot place directly in the hub of the wheel, and with the rest of your body, add leverage to rim of wheel or frame until wheel and spokes are bent to appropriate length.

If you're lucky the owner shows up.

99% Assurance that the doucebag owner of said bicycle won't do a damn thing. We have a society of passive aggressive crybabies. Chaining their shit to your bike=not cool. It may not remove the lock from the bike, but the owner of the bicycle will think twice. And before someone pipes in shouting "That's wrong!"... yes it is. And chaining your shit to someone else's machine is too. The world sucks when you're a dick to other people and aren't willing to deal with the consequences.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Fri May 04, 2012 3:20 am

neotrotsky wrote:Easy solution: Take the toolkit out from under the seat, take the offending parts off they chained to your scooter.

Dammit! that would have been the best solution...

I do know that there are $2000 bicycles out there. I also know no one would chain them up downtown, because they'd be gone in a second. Anyone that has those takes them with on the bus or rents an enclosed bike hut.

I didn't intentionally mangle his bike, it was just that turning it was the best lever for popping the chain that I had. I don't own bolt cutters (and having them on one's person is high suspect of criminal intent here) but I would have gladly done that if I did. We did go by there this evening and it was gone, so whether he picked it up or the police decided it was trash, someone moved it.

I need to take pictures in the light so people can see how truly malicious it was. next Tue when I park it (on a different block methinks....) then I'll post how I was set up. the person really did have to go out of the way to immobilize me, as well as scratch my scoot, so I don't feel bad for that particular person. however if someone gets in the way on accident, using the toolkit sounds like a much more amicable solution....

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Fri May 04, 2012 10:09 am

k1dude wrote:
lovemysan wrote:I buy some cheap harbor freight bolt cutters and big padlock for the next time. I'd cut his chain off my bike then politely chain through his wheel and lock it with my padlock. Might even put my number or my junkmail email address on it.
HA! I like the way you think.

But you should chain it through his rear wheel AND his frame. Don't use your phone number though.

+1

Post by **ericalm** » Fri May 04, 2012 5:02 pm

Aside of what one "should," "would" or "could" do, I wonder what's legal in this situation. That is, if a cop rolled up and caught you decimating a bicycle—for whatever reason—would you be up on vandalism charges?

Regardless of circumstance, I'd be pretty concerned about retaliation if I ever had to park there again. Who knows how the mind of someone who does something like this works?

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Fri May 04, 2012 5:23 pm

Eric,

Security all but watched me.

What shames me is that I should have been able to keep my calm, probably ask the security desk to come cut it.

1) I probably would have had to answer some questions and pay for damages if seen.

2) much as the person deserved it, that's not what scooters are about. Everyone should get a chance to answer for their crap.

I probably won't park there near there again. I'm a bit cranky with the person still, but a bit more so with myself. My mission in life, much as I am a gruff punkish type, has always been to help people. Instead of thinking selfishly, I should have just spent an extra 20 min and found a better solution.

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Fri May 04, 2012 6:10 pm

skully93 wrote:Eric,

Security all but watched me.

What shames me is that I should have been able to keep my calm, probably ask the security desk to come cut it.

1) I probably would have had to answer some questions and pay for damages if seen.

2) much as the person deserved it, that's not what scooters are about. Everyone should get a chance to answer for their crap.

I probably won't park there near there again. I'm a bit cranky with the person still, but a bit more so with myself. My mission in life, much as I am a gruff punkish type, has always been to help people. Instead of thinking selfishly, I should have just spent an extra 20 min and found a better solution.

Nah. You did fine. You probably could have done better, but you did fine. In every instance I've given the person the benefit of the doubt (in situations like yours), they've turned out to be raging aholes and made me regret extending them the benefit. Almost always, what you see is what you get.

Lotrat · Post by **Lotrat** » Sat May 05, 2012 5:26 am

I would have called the cops. If they didn't want to do anything, I would have done the same as you and then I would have thrown the bicycle in a dumpster. Have a nice day.

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Sat May 05, 2012 8:07 am

skully93 wrote:Eric,

Security all but watched me.

What shames me is that I should have been able to keep my calm, probably ask the security desk to come cut it.

1) I probably would have had to answer some questions and pay for damages if seen.

2) much as the person deserved it, that's not what scooters are about. Everyone should get a chance to answer for their crap.

I probably won't park there near there again. I'm a bit cranky with the person still, but a bit more so with myself. My mission in life, much as I am a gruff punkish type, has always been to help people. Instead of thinking selfishly, I should have just spent an extra 20 min and found a better solution.

Hey, don't worry about it. You are only human. We try to do, say and think good deads but in the end, there are always things we have done that we wish we had done differently. Me, my pet peave is people who open their door into your car...especially when they had plenty of room to NOT do that. I remember years ago I was sitting in my car in the parking lot of the library when a woman did just that. I had the passenger window open as it was summer time, and she could have said "Oh, I'm sorry", or something, but she didn't. Unfortunately, I was in a frame of mind that didn't bode well. My car was a quite a bit older than hers and when she went into the library, I leaned over and opened the passenger door, and slammed it into her door, leaving a very noticable ding (um...dent) in her newer car's door, right where it had a natural crease anyway, so she couldn't have it just popped back out.

I regretted (immensely) doing it immediately, realized what a despicable thing it was that I had just done, but it was a done deed. However, dwelling on it does no good, so I just use is as lessons learned and try to not do something that I might regret going forward. Maybe she learned someting too, but I doubt it. Truth is, I am probably the only one that really regretted that incident, as she probably either forgot all about it immediately, or was even oblivious that she had even done it to begin with.

Of course in your case, the guy obviously wasn't oblivious to what he did, so it's a slightly different scenario...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBvysuewIOs

bigbropgo · Post by **bigbropgo** » Sat May 05, 2012 9:59 am

Really strange. Were they trying to teach you a lesson? And immobilizing your property trumps parking in the wrong spot? (The mentality of this person) I dunno, really strange. I would have done whatever it took to remove the obstruction. Not really your obligation to seek out this person asking them to kindly release your vehicle. The cyclists, scooter beef boggles my feeble little mind.

Lotrat · Post by **Lotrat** » Sat May 05, 2012 5:03 pm

michelle_7728 wrote:...Me, my pet peave is people who open their door into your car...especially when they had plenty of room to NOT do that. I remember years ago I was sitting in my car in the parking lot of the library when a woman did just that. I had the passenger window open as it was summer time, and she could have said "Oh, I'm sorry", or something, but she didn't. Unfortunately, I was in a frame of mind that didn't bode well. My car was a quite a bit older than hers and when she went into the library, I leaned over and opened the passenger door, and slammed it into her door, leaving a very noticable ding (um...dent) in her newer car's door, right where it had a natural crease anyway, so she couldn't have it just popped back out...

I remember that episode... too funny.

<object width="420" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NBvysuewIOs?ve ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NBvysuewIOs?version=3&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Sat May 05, 2012 6:34 pm

LOL that clip is so funny. Is it from "Malcom in the Middle" ? What season/episode is it from? I want to go find and watch the entire episode now.

Mutt the Hoople · Post by **Mutt the Hoople** » Sat May 05, 2012 10:12 pm

TAWANDAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You may be younger and thinner,
But I have more insurance

Wheelz · Post by **Wheelz** » Sun May 06, 2012 4:13 am

hey Skully,

I'm an avid cyclist as you know. I gotta say that, if I were in your shoes I would have done the same thing.
It's not on you personally if somebody decides to "teach" you a lesson.
I would say that person might need to be taught a lesson as well, ya dig.
As you said it's not like you set out to do this it was an end, that just happened as you tried to free your transportation.

Hwarang · Post by **Hwarang** » Sun May 06, 2012 6:52 am

skully93 wrote:
Hwarang wrote:I don't think you should chain your motor vehicle to a bicycle rack. Would you enjoy a pile of bikes in a scooter/motorcycle parking space? You should consider making amends (offer to pay for a new chain and repairs to his bike).
actually they aren't 'bike racks' they are upside-down U bars. there are bike only racks, but the u bars were specifically installed to accommodate bicycles AND scooters, as stated by Denver, with my tax pennies being just as good as theirs.

Plus, if we were going to compare, my time rates $25/hr, and the damage he did to the scooter (?). Probably more than his bike was worth.

I should also note I started parking at ones farther into the middle of the block (they put them every 50 feet or so, with extras at each end, every block, for 15 blocks). there were other empties on each side. He did it deliberately, multiple times.

Now, if the person were there, I'd have asked politely, and reminded him that I've as much right to be there, and we could continue the discussion from there. But, the joy of a 10 hour day, the damage done to my scoot, and no way to contact the person, I feel pretty justified. if I could have just slid it off, I certainly would have, but facing down waiting in the hot sun in armor with no determinate time, screw 'em. Even if they hadn't chained my scoot up, the damage is pretty annoying (not enough to me to resort to vandalism, esp since I have insurance....).

Oh, that totally gives you the right to destroy his bike then!

laxer · Post by **laxer** » Sun May 06, 2012 2:48 pm

Hwarang wrote:
skully93 wrote:
Hwarang wrote:I don't think you should chain your motor vehicle to a bicycle rack. Would you enjoy a pile of bikes in a scooter/motorcycle parking space? You should consider making amends (offer to pay for a new chain and repairs to his bike).
actually they aren't 'bike racks' they are upside-down U bars. there are bike only racks, but the u bars were specifically installed to accommodate bicycles AND scooters, as stated by Denver, with my tax pennies being just as good as theirs.

Plus, if we were going to compare, my time rates $25/hr, and the damage he did to the scooter (?). Probably more than his bike was worth.

I should also note I started parking at ones farther into the middle of the block (they put them every 50 feet or so, with extras at each end, every block, for 15 blocks). there were other empties on each side. He did it deliberately, multiple times.

Now, if the person were there, I'd have asked politely, and reminded him that I've as much right to be there, and we could continue the discussion from there. But, the joy of a 10 hour day, the damage done to my scoot, and no way to contact the person, I feel pretty justified. if I could have just slid it off, I certainly would have, but facing down waiting in the hot sun in armor with no determinate time, screw 'em. Even if they hadn't chained my scoot up, the damage is pretty annoying (not enough to me to resort to vandalism, esp since I have insurance....).
Oh, that totally gives you the right to destroy his bike then!

You use your bike to damage my property and then leave your bike chained to said property (trying to immobilize me), and yes, I'm gonna do what's necessary to quickly get your bike unchained from my property and be on my way, even if it means ruining your precious bike.

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Sun May 06, 2012 4:27 pm

Lokky has had this happen to him on campus- some dumbass chained a bike to his Stella. I don't remember what he did- it didn't involve bike decimation. He may have gotten campus police to cut it.

He/she may not have been 'teaching you a lesson', just been a a careless, selfish jerkoff. "Oh cool, I can chain my bike here for EXTRA protection!"

Either way, I agree with 90% of the people who have already responded. I think you maybe should have reported it, or asked mall security if they had bolt cutters available, so that there was at least a verbal record of what happened with some kind of authority (I think you said this has happened more than once?) and you would be less likely to get in trouble for anything.

But from there, this person VANDALIZED YOUR PROPERTY and put your vehicle at the mercy of their whim. Not cool. That would be like somebody other than the city walking up and putting a boot on my car while I'm at work for no reason, with a note saying "BBL".

HELL NAW.

Nobody is legally allowed to do that shit to you, and on top of that, I agree with Stormswift when she pointed out that this bicyclist's actions can be construed as a thief's actions in attempt to disable your scooter in one place away from you for the night. That alone is a reasonable and valid assumption, and enough rationale for your actions.

You did what you had to to unchain your vehicle yourself, and they learned their lesson. That's exactly what they get for taking the law into their own hands and being a complete frakking douchenozzle... they ought to have been prepared for consequences when they did that. So I don't think you should feel that bad about it, you weren't out of line.

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Sun May 06, 2012 4:42 pm

^^ very good points. i always worry about myself getting in trouble because actions can and often time get taken out of context, making an innocent person look guilty.

that said, though, to skully's defense and like i said earlier, i have also had my bicycle locked in in that exact spot. in my case, i live less than 2 miles away so i could just walk home. idk what his case is, but when you're out out luck late at night and security people there don't really care (i had to keep hounding security multiple time to get them to call the cops to come get my bike out, since it was on RTD property) i can appreciate how frustrated he must feel.

also, to someone's point from a post earlier, leaving the scooter there is actually a security risk because it could be a thief's attempt to get some 1 on 1 time to steal the scooter. i left my bike there for 2 DAYS because it was my P.O.S. commuter bike that I got off of CL for $35 so I didn't really care if someone stole it. If it had been a scooter or my nicer bike... no way.

So yea, I think we all agree that skully could've and maybe should've done something differently (he said that so himself), I'm willing to give the guy (EDIT: him = skully, if it's not clear) a break because of the circumstances.

Mutt the Hoople · Post by **Mutt the Hoople** » Sun May 06, 2012 5:06 pm

If the guy did it more than once... He's being a jerk. Had had to know what he was doing. I really try o go the "give people the benefit of the doubt" route, but without trying to be too cynical, they have usually turned out to be exactly what my gut feeling suggested.

I live in a small apartment building that has three businesses on the first floor, and four apartments each on the second and third floors. Our building has a major concert venue on one side and a boutique hotel on the other. We have six of our own parking spots by our fence in back of the building... And then a large public lot. It does not take Einstein to figure out that there are mor tenants than parking spots. It really has never been an issue, whoever gets in latest parks in a public spot. Then this guy and his girlfriend ... With TWO vehicles moved in and HE decided e had a permanent right to his own spot... Even though pele who'd been tere for three years never copped such an attitude. So one Saturday, my car gets pinned in because the guy double parked. There was a big concert the night before, so I figured as soon as the parking lot cleared out, he would move. He did not. I had a place to go on Sunday, could not find the guy and had to pay to take public transport even though I had a full tank of gas in my car. He moved it sometime lter that day. He did it again and I was teaching a class and had to leave... He was pissed off that I woke him up. He did it to some of the other tenants as well. He did it to me again and the public lot was almost empty... There were at least 8 spaces in the public lot within 20-40 feet of where he was parked, and plenty further out. So I had to wake him up again, and basically asked WTF... Dude, you have an empty parking lot. He said he deserved his own space. The next time he did it to a guy who had something important to get to, and after all the hassle of the ladt few weeks... By this time all of us had gotten pinned in at least once. I could not even get my scooter out because he parked so close to the gate. Anyway, one night this guy had the jerk towed. What a scene that caused. The double parker cried... Boo effing hoo. The guy who had him towed offered to pay for the cost... We told him that he was nuts... They guy more than had it coming... The only reason he had not been towed sooner was that everyone on the building was so nice they did not want to cause trouble or cost the guy a big chunk of money. The jerk moved a week later because he didn't want to live around a bunch of assholes. Good riddance... We have not had a parking issue since. In retrospect, the guy had it coming to get his car towed... He had it coming for a month.

You gave no reason to feel guilty for. I understand where you are coming from, and I'm not like at either... I don't mess with other peoples property, but two times? He knew what he was doing. Too many passive-aggressive jerks out there.

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Sun May 06, 2012 5:26 pm

wow what an a*hole. i think the collective people in your building did the right thing, even though it caused everyone inconvenience several time. i'm of the same mindset as well, of giving people the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes enough is enough.

i have a similar story in my building as well. there is one guy here who always LOVE parking his 7-series out front in the loading zone for anything but. he's parked there overnight, or left it there way past the 15-min park when it's after 6pm because the meter maids stop checking at 6. the dude has his own parking spot a stone's throw from mine in a very nice shared garage i may add (with windows and all). the only conclusion i could think of is that doucebag (that's what we call him) probably loves showing off his car or something. anyway, after running into a few other people in the building with the same annoyance, i eventually asked the front-desk security guard one night to all the cops the next time douchebag does that.

i don't know if the cops were ever notified, but he doesn't do that anymore. or maybe it was all the ADDITIONAL bad-will he garnered when he caused a fire at 4am one morning by sleeping with candles on! yes. really. his unit and all the units around and below him got flooded/damaged all the way from the 7th down to the 3rd floor. douchebag has never ever even said sorry for all the damages he's caused to other people. anyway, rant over. some days i just feel like keying his car so badly. i hate people like that.

Lokky · Post by **Lokky** » Sun May 06, 2012 5:31 pm

LunaP wrote:Lokky has had this happen to him on campus- some dumbass chained a bike to his Stella. I don't remember what he did- it didn't involve bike decimation. He may have gotten campus police to cut it.

Oh yeah that...

I called campus police and they said they'd come cut it in a few hours (which I did not have). They told me that if I can cut it I am in my legal rights to do so since it prevented me from moving my vehicle. If their vehicle had been registered and had a tag they could have been charged with a bunch of stuff too.

So long story short I headed back to the chemistry department to pick up a Styrofoam cooler and filled it with liquid nitrogen from a friend's bio lab. Then we dipped his chain into the cooler and made short work of it with a hammer. I may or may not have disposed of the nitrogen on his gears...

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Sun May 06, 2012 5:42 pm

Lokky wrote:I may or may not have disposed of the nitrogen on his gears...

Ha!!! LOL!

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Sun May 06, 2012 5:45 pm

Lokky wrote:
LunaP wrote:Lokky has had this happen to him on campus- some dumbass chained a bike to his Stella. I don't remember what he did- it didn't involve bike decimation. He may have gotten campus police to cut it.
Oh yeah that...

I called campus police and they said they'd come cut it in a few hours (which I did not have). They told me that if I can cut it I am in my legal rights to do so since it prevented me from moving my vehicle. If their vehicle had been registered and had a tag they could have been charged with a bunch of stuff too.

So long story short I headed back to the chemistry department to pick up a Styrofoam cooler and filled it with liquid nitrogen from a friend's bio lab. Then we dipped his chain into the cooler and made short work of it with a hammer. I may or may not have disposed of the nitrogen on his gears...

I should have known that VCU Police wouldn't be so quick to respond to something like that, and that your solution to the problem would undoubtedly involve SCIENCE. Silly me.

But it's good to know that you're within your rights to cut the chain- I doubt other states vary much in this way of thinking. It's also good to know that the person could have conceivably been charged. Too bad he wasn't.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Tue May 08, 2012 5:33 am

Well everyone will be glad to know the offending bicycle was not so mangled as to be broken. it is back in that spot. I will relinquish my spot by parking 100' further into down the block. if he does it again on Tue morning, I'll ask RTD once to remove it and give em 20 min. Apparently the police will not outright respond to vehicle stuff there because it is not public property.

Otherwise I'm taking the spare kryptonite chain with me and we can sit at the bar across the street when he shows back up to retrieve his bike. I have also recruited some people that I know who work on Market St. and get there in the afternoons for bartending/tattoo jobs.

Hopefully if I just move, it won't be an issue anymore. However, since I'm looking to sell the Zuma, I don't want it scratched more or I'll have to put in a claim, which means escalating to police reports, etc.

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Tue May 08, 2012 3:46 pm

skully93 wrote:Well everyone will be glad to know the offending bicycle was not so mangled as to be broken. it is back in that spot. I will relinquish my spot by parking 100' further into down the block. if he does it again on Tue morning, I'll ask RTD once to remove it and give em 20 min. Apparently the police will not outright respond to vehicle stuff there because it is not public property.

This was the most frustrating part for me as well. The RTD security guard just literally didn't care. I had to get on his case to get him to do something. And this was AFTER I'd left my bike there for 2 nights for the other person to come back.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue May 08, 2012 4:58 pm

Curious as to whether that act might violate some law, Theft? Criminal mischief?

Edwub · Post by **Edwub** » Tue May 08, 2012 5:40 pm

I'd be incredibly frustrated as well, and upfront, I do not know how I would react. But I'm posting to say that I'm surprised by some of the commentators here condoning and/or encouraging vigilante justice.

If a car had double parked behind your car, would you advocate reversing into it and forcing it out of the way? Doubtful. It may "just" be a bicycle, but it's still someones method of transportation and it may very well might have cost a lot of money. It also may not have - mostly irrelevant. Just because one could respond and get away with it (probably couldn't if it was a car) doesn't mean one should in my opinion (or "could" - legally). I don't doubt that some of you would be rather upset when other people think your scooter is worth less than a car, and they don't care when they back into it and leave it knocked over. Hey, it's just a scooter! Suggestions to intentionally bend the frame and wreck the bicycle? Why not break the windshield, add sand to the gas tank and slash the tires of a car that blocked you in...

The degree to which they're being an a*hole doesn't give one the right (at least legally, clearly some think that morally it does and then some) to be one in return. I'd think scooterists particularly (after reading so many posts about people feeling alienated, ostracized or completely disregarded by motorcycle riders and cagers) would be concerned about escalation.

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Tue May 08, 2012 8:03 pm

Edwub wrote:I'd be incredibly frustrated as well, and upfront, I do not know how I would react. But I'm posting to say that I'm surprised by some of the commentators here condoning and/or encouraging vigilante justice.

If a car had double parked behind your car, would you advocate reversing into it and forcing it out of the way? Doubtful. It may "just" be a bicycle, but it's still someones method of transportation and it may very well might have cost a lot of money. It also may not have - mostly irrelevant. Just because one could respond and get away with it (probably couldn't if it was a car) doesn't mean one should in my opinion (or "could" - legally). I don't doubt that some of you would be rather upset when other people think your scooter is worth less than a car, and they don't care when they back into it and leave it knocked over. Hey, it's just a scooter! Suggestions to intentionally bend the frame and wreck the bicycle? Why not break the windshield, add sand to the gas tank and slash the tires of a car that blocked you in...

The degree to which they're being an a*hole doesn't give one the right (at least legally, clearly some think that morally it does and then some) to be one in return. I'd think scooterists particularly (after reading so many posts about people feeling alienated, ostracized or completely disregarded by motorcycle riders and cagers) would be concerned about escalation.

I feel like the key difference here is (i.e., why I would think this way about someone's bike and not somebody's car blocking me in) is that a car blocking me in can be ticketed by the police or towed in the absence of the owner. Something else had to be done in this situation; neither of these were options. Also, there's a big difference between somebody blocking you in, and somebody blocking you in, getting out and keying your car and then sauntering away- which is essentially what this bicycle owner did. Twice.

pdxrita · Post by **pdxrita** » Tue May 08, 2012 8:04 pm

Edwub wrote:I'd be incredibly frustrated as well, and upfront, I do not know how I would react. But I'm posting to say that I'm surprised by some of the commentators here condoning and/or encouraging vigilante justice.

If a car had double parked behind your car, would you advocate reversing into it and forcing it out of the way? Doubtful. It may "just" be a bicycle, but it's still someones method of transportation and it may very well might have cost a lot of money. It also may not have - mostly irrelevant. Just because one could respond and get away with it (probably couldn't if it was a car) doesn't mean one should in my opinion (or "could" - legally). I don't doubt that some of you would be rather upset when other people think your scooter is worth less than a car, and they don't care when they back into it and leave it knocked over. Hey, it's just a scooter! Suggestions to intentionally bend the frame and wreck the bicycle? Why not break the windshield, add sand to the gas tank and slash the tires of a car that blocked you in...

The degree to which they're being an a*hole doesn't give one the right (at least legally, clearly some think that morally it does and then some) to be one in return. I'd think scooterists particularly (after reading so many posts about people feeling alienated, ostracized or completely disregarded by motorcycle riders and cagers) would be concerned about escalation.

Honestly, I don't see this instance as vigilante justice. I see this instance as the poster doing what was within their rights to free their scooter. The bicycle in question had been locked to the scooter twice and had done damage to the scooter. The scooterist gave them a pass the first time. Why should he do it a second time? If I locked my scooter up to someone's else's car, bike, scooter or motorcycle, I'd have no reason to expect them to leave it alone. I'd expect them to do whatever it took to free up their vehicle.

Edwub · Post by **Edwub** » Tue May 08, 2012 8:23 pm

LunaP wrote: I feel like the key difference here is (i.e., why I would think this way about someone's bike and not somebody's car blocking me in) is that a car blocking me in can be ticketed by the police or towed in the absence of the owner. Something else had to be done in this situation; neither of these were options. Also, there's a big difference between somebody blocking you in, and somebody blocking you in, getting out and keying your car and then sauntering away- which is essentially what this bicycle owner did. Twice.

1) It still is ticketable and an offense. Police should be able to help. Granted, maybe they won't run over immediately but it's still an issue with private property at the least.

2) There is not a big difference legally. If the person blocking you in with their car got out, keyed ya, and sauntered away, you still can't T-bone their car with yours. "but your honor, he *really* was a *big* jerk" isn't a legal defense

pdxrita wrote: Honestly, I don't see this instance as vigilante justice. I see this instance as the poster doing what was within their rights to free their scooter. The bicycle in question had been locked to the scooter twice and had done damage to the scooter. The scooterist gave them a pass the first time. Why should he do it a second time? If I locked my scooter up to someone's else's car, bike, scooter or motorcycle, I'd have no reason to expect them to leave it alone. I'd expect them to do whatever it took to free up their vehicle.

I wasn't directing my post at Skully, but the general sentiment/tone of the thread (though yes, I did specifically call out the comment about placing your foot on their bike and adding leverage til it's bent up).

re: "The scooterist game them a pass" It's not the scooterists decision, or right, by law to give them a pass or not. I would be very, very, very surprised if the city police department said there was absolutely nothing they could do. As I said to Luna above, I doubt they'd run out immediately, but *legally* I don't think you can say "I did what I had to do." Even if the guy did something wrong twice. Again, that's why I brought up a car blocking you in --- would you in reverse slam their car with yours to get it out of the way? What if they had blocked you in twice? Or blocked you in, and done a little fender bender and scratched/messed up your bumper?

It's not the best analogy, but I think that the overall idea is the same. You'd try to get the guy ticketed or towed. You might try to squeeze past him, and not care if you scratched his car up. But I doubt you'd have many people encouraging you to grab an SUV with a bull-bar and just bash it out of the way.

In my eyes, the thread is interesting. I think the response (and encouragement to mess up their bike) would be different if it wasn't a bicycle - but another scooter? Harder to bend the frame maybe. Car? It's just interesting to me, mostly because (as I said in my post), I'm sure car drivers look at scooters at times and think "ppssht just a scooter, I'll do what I need to do." And probably, there are times where the bicyclist/scooterist/car driver is being a huge dick and is at fault. But I doubt we'd as readily approve the "needed to do what needed to be done" attitude had they drove a scooter over or wrecked it or something.

Yes, definitely, the other guy is a huge jerk. The intent of my post wasn't to defend the other guy at all - he's in the wrong, period. But rather, legally, you can't take matters into your own hand (especially if it severely damages their property). Again, "but your honor, he *really* was a *big* jerk" isn't a legal defense

Thanks for your thoughts/responses though (and I'm sure the mod's appreciate a civil discussion

) Maybe I'm expressing the minority opinion here. Guess I just felt it's a bad cycle.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Tue May 08, 2012 9:01 pm

What would you do Ed? Some apparently self important bicyclist locked his bike to your scoot, for no apparent reason other than to do it, then didn't retrieve it for days. Add to that RTD's total lack of interest in the situation.

Who you gonna call? DPD?

Edwub · Post by **Edwub** » Tue May 08, 2012 9:20 pm

Syd wrote:What would you do Ed? Some apparently self important bicyclist locked his bike to your scoot, for no apparent reason other than to do it, then didn't retrieve it for days. Add to that RTD's total lack of interest in the situation.

Who you gonna call? DPD?

Maybe I misread the OP; I didn't think the scooter was tied up for days. Merely that Skully couldn't afford to wait for a stranger.

I had edited a blurb out of my post, but I had originally said I might pull a Lokky. I'd call security if at work, and ask them to come cut the chain immediately. If they couldn't come in a reasonable time, then I would inform them that I need my vehicle immediately, and will be taking action, and see if it'd speed them up. If I was at work, I'd go grab liquid nitrogen too - and I'd break the chain.

In fact, I'd attempt to break the chain near the end of one side, so that it may be repairable in some way. And probably leave a pretty nasty note. But I would *not* damage the bicycle out of spite, or attempt to bend the frame intentionally.

If it happened elsewhere where I didn't have access to 500 liters of liquid nitrogen, I'd call the police. Or try to break the chain. Again though, I wouldn't intentionally go out of my way to mess the bicycle up. If it happens accidentally, that's one thing. To encourage someone to do it specifically as an object lesson/punishment to the other person is what I objected to. That's malicious, and probably more illegal and trouble (destruction of private property? You might talk your way out of breaking the chain, but would you be liable to pay something for their bike if it's clear you caused more damage then necessary to get free? Retaliation isn't legal. )

Again - the other guy is a huge jerk. No question there. I'm only commenting/responding to some of the commentary that surprised me. And per my example above, would people respond similar if it had been a scooter or car, rather than a bicycle?

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Tue May 08, 2012 9:41 pm

If it happened elsewhere where I didn't have access to 500 liters of liquid nitrogen, I'd call the police. Or try to break the chain.

Which is what skully did, using the only tool available - the guys bike.

I agree with you that retaliation isn't legal, and that's probably why skully said he kinda felt like a jerk. But you can't carry bolt cutters, so if the local PD considers this a low priority call, is it really your responsibility to wait it out? I honestly don't know what I'd do, but I do know the opinion bicyclists have of themselves in DenCO and I'll give skully a pass.

And it could have been worse. Skully could have been in Boulder.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Tue May 08, 2012 11:13 pm

OK, here's how it went today:

I parked a block down and a block over.

THE SAME BIKE WAS THEN CHAINED TO MY ZUMA.

So here's what I did.

1) called the cops (this was on a public street, not RTD property this time).

The operator said that I could come down to the office and fill out paperwork, but short of some identifying method, there's not much they would do. They flat out weren't going to send an officer. I told them that left me stranded, and left my scooter in a bad position. The officer re-iterated 'there's not much we can do...". I asked if there was much he would do if I took a plasma cutter to the bike, and he said "I advise against it, but we're not sending an officer."

So I used my toolkit to lever just his lock. Not very sturdy. I then replaced it with a padlock of my own, and left a note detailing that he could call/text a google voice number, or email a throwaway address.

Lo and behold! I got a call. I asked his name and why he thought it acceptable to do that. "Do what?" chain your bicycle to my scooter. "oh, I didn't realize..."

OK dude, I'll meet you with an officer in 20 minutes to remove my lock, and we can speak TOGETHER to the officer. (I didn't have any such leverage...)

After some hemming and hawing, I went back and unchained it. Then I gave him the combo to the lock so he could use it. He apologized. I didn't admit to twisting the chain off last time, but he didn't ask either.

I'm confident this won't be an issue in the future.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Tue May 08, 2012 11:24 pm

Well done, Skully. Hopefully this knucklehead, who clearly was trying to make some point to you, got one made to himself.