Modern Buddy

Another day, another picturial. I'm working on the oil change picturial and will post that soon.

With the help of velobuff, I replaced the spark plug on my Buddy. Instructions are below. Enjoy!

From the Scooterworks Wiki, here is the NGK sparkplug you'll need:

• Buddy 125 and 150 = CR7HSA
• Buddy 50 = BR7HS or BPR7HS

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Very good. Pictures and words are worth > 1000 words.

I would add 2 things:

1) In order to avoid accidental cross-threading when inserting the new plug, it's prudent to screw the new plug in with just your fingers, not the socket. If you can't reach into the shroud, then it's cool to use the socket as an 'extension', but the point is to be very gentle to make sure it's threaded correctly.

2) For a new plug or with a NEW crush washer, finger-tighten it until it meets the engine case, then tighten 1/2 revolution further. If you're reinstalling an old plug with an old crush washer, finger-tighten it, then add only 1/16 to 1/8 revolution with the wrench/screwdriver.

I'm a little new to scootering, and plan on doing my own maintenance. Its seems as if the standard rules apply for all spark plugs... so is it not necessary to place a little anti seize, the same as you would a cars plugs? It can never hurt, i've read a lot of threads on changing plugs on a scoot but I can't recall anyone ever mentioning using it.

very nice tutorial! thanks for all the time and effort.

Just a note for anyone trying to apply these instructions to a Buddy 50: The spark plug is instead located front and center, underneath.

Great tutorial! Thanks for posting!!!!

good good. i hope other people can get some use out of these picturials as much as i did going through the process and documenting it. it's such a great feeling, because i never knew how to do any of these things and now i do. it's a lot easier than i'd thought, too.

and it's great that other people can also add on to this thread with more info as well. pictures really demystifies the whole process, so for some of you that are adding more info please feel free to add some images as well.

This is great, thanks!

New spark plugs for Buddys are rarely out of spec. Some mechanics I know don't bother with the gap gauge unless something's "not right."

BTW, I know a longtime Buddy owner with many miles under his belt who has never looked at his stock tool kit! Weird.

BeefSupreme wrote: so is it not necessary to place a little anti seize, the same as you would a cars plugs? It can never hurt, i've read a lot of threads on changing plugs on a scoot but I can't recall anyone ever mentioning using it.

I always use some anti seize especially on an aluminum head. There are some plugs like NGK that indicate the metal will not gall but I prefer to use some anyway. Maybe overkill and could change the torque value a little but I would rather be able to get the plug out than have it galled in the head.

You note an area that might be hot. I would recommend waiting until the engine is cool (room temp) before pulling the plug, because the expansion of the head can make the plug fit more tightly than it might normally be (especially true on aluminum).

PeteH wrote:Very good. Pictures and words are worth > 1000 words.

I would add 2 things:

1) In order to avoid accidental cross-threading when inserting the new plug, it's prudent to screw the new plug in with just your fingers, not the socket. If you can't reach into the shroud, then it's cool to use the socket as an 'extension', but the point is to be very gentle to make sure it's threaded correctly.

2) For a new plug or with a NEW crush washer, finger-tighten it until it meets the engine case, then tighten 1/2 revolution further. If you're reinstalling an old plug with an old crush washer, finger-tighten it, then add only 1/16 to 1/8 revolution with the wrench/screwdriver.

I've found that in the 3 scooters I've so far worked on, the spark plug hole is deep enough that you have to use the supplied extension to properly insert the spark plug. I always thread it by hand. Nothing more scary than cross threading a spark plug into your scooter engine.

I've always finger tightened the new spark plug till it meets the engine and then ball-park torqued it to the spec. I find that you have to make sure the crush washers have to crush down otherwise you could lose compression and the only way to guarantee that they're crushed is to tighten to torque rather than 1/2 way, etc. Same with hand-tightening oil filters on cars. YMMV.

If the plug on the scoot is set deep down inside a shroud as it looks in the picture you could use a small piece of rubber hose, fuel line, etc. slipped over the end of the plug that the boot snaps on and then be able to line the plug up and hand tighten by turning the hose so not to cross thread it. This is the only way you can change plugs on an old VW with a metal shroud around the spark plug hole. Just a thought on my Kymco was able to just hold the end with my fingers to get it the threads on the plug started. May also want to put a little dielectric grease inside the spark plug boot.

ericalm wrote:New spark plugs for Buddys are rarely out of spec. Some mechanics I know don't bother with the gap gauge unless something's "not right."

Well we got his spark plug at an auto parts store so it was gapped to whatever it came with from the factory - but I always check the gap. I've rarely found it to be off anyway but I'd rather "measure twice cut once" just to save 5 minutes and know I did it right the first time

And for first-time plug changers, the plug needs to turn quite a few times around until it reaches the end of the threads, so if you carefully put the plug into the plug hole, turn it once or twice by hand and it grabs - it may be cross threaded. Back it off and try again, just to be sure.

velobuff wrote:

ericalm wrote:New spark plugs for Buddys are rarely out of spec. Some mechanics I know don't bother with the gap gauge unless something's "not right."

Well we got his spark plug at an auto parts store so it was gapped to whatever it came with from the factory - but I always check the gap. I've rarely found it to be off anyway but I'd rather "measure twice cut once" just to save 5 minutes and know I did it right the first time

Ah, yeah, The guys at the shop always use the same NHKs (I think) so they know they're all dialed in right.

NHK = Japanese TV network
NGK = Japanese maker of sparky things.

Yeah, those.

what happens exactly if you cross-thread it? is the spark plug done for? or is it more of just a nuisance and you just take it out and put it back in again?

un_designer wrote:what happens exactly if you cross-thread it? is the spark plug done for? or is it more of just a nuisance and you just take it out and put it back in again?

Cross-thread can be bad. Very bad. If you continue turning on a cross-threaded spark plug, the softer of the two metals becomes damaged. The spark plug is not the softer of the two metals. Your Buddy's head is.

So if you cross-thread the plug and continue to turn it in (force it in, really), you will damage the threads on the cylinder head, which means that the plug, no plug, will ever fit in the head again. At least not until the threads are repaired, which can be anywhere from a minor repair (chasing the threads to clean them up) to a major deal (pulling the head, drilling the hole larger and inserting what's called a heli-coil). Things you don't want to happen.

so, if it seems "tight" only after a few turns, then it's probably cross-threaded, right?

un_designer wrote:so, if it seems "tight" only after a few turns, then it's probably cross-threaded, right?

Maybe just a little off or crooked. Back it out slowly and gently as possible. Don't force it further in!

Nice post.

un_designer wrote:so, if it seems "tight" only after a few turns, then it's probably cross-threaded, right?

If you look at the threaded part of the plug you can see how many turns the plug will turn till it is seated. Different plugs have different lengths of threads. Next time the plug is out just turn the plug in your fingers and may turn 5 or six times till you reach the end of the threaded portion.
When installing if you can turn the plug easily in the head a few turns by hand you usually can feel if it is threaded properly or cross thtreaded. Just do not be in a rush or use a socket wrench to start the plug threading.

I think Augtozone sent me the wrong sparkplug. I remember ordering cr7hsa I just looked carefully at mine and it says c7hsa It is a good thing I did not need to replace it yet

Stormswift wrote:I think Augtozone sent me the wrong sparkplug. I remember ordering cr7hsa I just looked carefully at mine and it says c7hsa It is a good thing I did not need to replace it yet

It's the same plug. The R means there is a resistor so it won't cause radio interference. Doesn't matter on your scooter unless you have an in-dash DVD radio unit.

Stormswift wrote:I think Augtozone sent me the wrong sparkplug. I remember ordering cr7hsa I just looked carefully at mine and it says c7hsa It is a good thing I did not need to replace it yet

As indicated the R indicates a resistor plug if this is a NGK the other symbols indicate the thread width and length heat range etc. If you tell Autozone they may be able to get the right one for you. I know I could not get the correct NGK at Autozone and Advanced Auto ordered the correct one in the next day. Here is the # for NGK tech support if you want
1-877-473-6767 I always like to use what plug is indicated in the owner's manual

The original spark plug that came with the Buddy is C7HSA. The one that Scooterworks lists as spark plug for the Buddy 125 & 150 is CR7HSA, which is what we used. Seems like either one would work just fine doesn't it?

Yep, the resistor plugs (and wires on cars) help minimize interference esp. on AM radio (remember AM radio?).

I was driving once, listening to a ball game, and a big ol' Harley pulled up next to me at a light. His non-resist wires & plugs were distorting my radio in the next lane.

Oh, that is a relief. I always carry spear spark plug with me and thought I had a wrong one.

Is the size of the spark plug for the rough house 50 smaller than 'standard'? The roughhouse I bought used didn't have the tool kit with it, so I'm using a spark plug bit from my tool kit and it won't fit into the rubber shroud.

I haven't bought the new plug yet to know what size it will be. Does this rubber shroud come off, or do I need a smaller tool.

thanks

FPH,

I'd order the proper new plug for the Roughhouse first, then when it comes in, see if your new plug fits your existing spark plug socket. Two factors: the rubber gripper _and_ the size of the hex bolt. There are several spark plug socket sizes out there, so you'll want to make sure you have a socket that will grab the faceted head correctly.

The rubber holder isn't critical for a scooter engine. This doodad in the socket is more to hold a plug into the socket while it's being inserted or removed _vertically_ from an engine. Since our spark plug holes are mostly horizontal, it's not a huge deal to have this rubber gripper. Assuming your socket is correct for the plug, you can pull the gripper out with a pair of pliers.

The most important thing to remember when mounting a new plug is to thread it in BY HAND, gently, to ensure that you're not cross-threading and chewing up the threads in the cylinder head. Once you're sure your plug is going in correctly, thread it down gently until the crush washer makes contact with the head, then pick up your tools and tighten it down just over half-a-turn for a NEW plug, or 1/8 turn if reinstalling an old (already-crushed washer) plug.

Anti seize is OK, just don't use the specified torque setting if you use it. The instuctions above, snug plus another half turn is good. I like to remove the pet carrier container when working on the engine. It makes access so much easier.

Thanks for the great tutorial. One question-when would you normally replace a 125 spark plug? Most cars can go 40 or 50k before the plugs need changing. When does the scooter need it?

Tazio wrote: I like to remove the pet carrier container when working on the engine. It makes access so much easier.

Lets a lot more light in too.

I replaced my plug at 8000 Buddy miles. It still looked good and is now carried as a spare.

un_designer wrote:Another day, another picturial. I'm working on the oil change picturial and will post that soon.

With the help of velobuff, I replaced the spark plug on my Buddy. Instructions are below. Enjoy!

From the Scooterworks Wiki, here is the NGK sparkplug you'll need:

• Buddy 125 and 150 = CR7HSA
• Buddy 50 = BR7HS or BPR7HS

Pictorial?! Where are the pic and instructions? Kind of miss leading.

NeoGenesisMax wrote:Pictorial?! Where are the pic and instructions? Kind of miss leading.

The pictures are attached images. The viewer must be logged in to see the attached images. Since you logged in to comment, you can probably see the images now.

This should be put in the tech section! It's not simple for first timers! I had to search the forum for it.

Reading this again (still think it is a good pictorial!), and having had to take that cover off recently, I would suggest one correction:

You have "Start with the edges, carefully pry plastic engine cover open. Don't break the tabs".

If you do it as follows, there are no concerns about breaking tabs:

Just changed the plug for the first time at 8.5k. The old one looks fine, nice mocha color. Today I took her out for a ride and I swear she tried to buck me off with acceleration! It felt like I almost lost rear traction for a second too. I didn't think a plug would make much of a difference, so what gives?! (for the record, I'm quite pleased with the situation)

Just to be clear... the spark gap should be 0.6~0.7mm. The pictures say 6mm... that would be a bit much.

C2

These instructions are great; but how do you remove the plug when it just doesn't want to come out? Any great tricks that someone who has never done this before?

I have clearly gotten mine to loosen - the buddy no longer starts - but I have been at it for allmost two hours and I can not get the damn thing out. I can't possibly be this hopeless...

libwitch wrote:These instructions are great; but how do you remove the plug when it just doesn't want to come out? Any great tricks that someone who has never done this before?

I have clearly gotten mine to loosen - the buddy no longer starts - but I have been at it for allmost two hours and I can not get the damn thing out. I can't possibly be this hopeless...

Uh-oh, sounds like it's stripped. Is it just spinning loosely in place?