Engine/Transmission Life

Discussion of the Genuine Buddy, Hooligan, Black Jack and other topics, both scooter related and not

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andylaiphoto
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Engine/Transmission Life

Post by andylaiphoto »

Not sure if it's because I'm using the search function wrong or if it's because I'm on an iOS device but I'm having a hard time finding the info that I'm looking for.

I would like to know how many miles one can expect from a Buddy 125 engine and tranny with proper routine maintenance.

How far can they typically go before needing some major work or rebuilding?

I know riding styles play a big role. I typically ride 100 miles a week to work on flat roads and avg about 40mph.

I really enjoy being able to ride my Buddy to work and would love to be able to do it for as long as it's still scootin along!
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phatch
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Post by phatch »

I've heard 20K for scooters is similar to 100K for cars. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The way I see it, ride it, take care of it, and when it does finally go kaput, yay new scooter time!! :D
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Skootz Kabootz
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Post by Skootz Kabootz »

There are people with over 40K on their Buddy's. Others who have ridden them cross country, and one who not just circumnavigated the USA but drew a peace sign over the country with her route. All this accomplished with just routine maintenance (and the odd stator replacement or some such thing).

As with anything YMMV, but if you perform the recommended regularly scheduled maintenance, just as recommended, your Buddy should enjoy a nice long lifetime.
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TomCat
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Post by TomCat »

When I picked up my scooter, the head mechanic at the dealership spent almost 45 minutes explaining every operating & maintenance detail to me.
One of the comments he made was be absolutely sure to follow the maintenance schedule in the manual, not only to preserve the warranty but for the longevity of the components. Then he made this comment:
"Cheap Chinese junk will last about 6,000 miles if you're lucky, these Genuine scooters will easily last at least 36,000 miles before needing any major repairs".
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skully93
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Post by skully93 »

This question has come up before, and our answer is we really don't know!

There aren't any Buddy's older than 6 years around, so they could very well be extremely tough machines, only time will tell. I've been told by a fellow enthusiast who doesn't even like the Buddy that they have excellent internals and one of hte best engines in their class. I think she just hates plastic.

I have a lot of friends with Honda Elite machines from the 80's. Some of them sat around and were abused, others have 50k miles on them, and other than looking like a 'beater' they seem to run just fine. I expect the same or more out of the Buddy.
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Tocsik
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Post by Tocsik »

Keep in mind Genuine scooters are imports from PGO Taiwan and PGO has been around since 1964.
Taiwan still has much better manufacturing methods and raw materials compared to mainland China.
There's better data about PGO scooters in general from other countries.
They make buggies op to 600cc, too.
PGO shined again in the raid Panafrica with its high reliability
There's a lot of video on YouTube of the Bug Racer 500i.
PGO has been producing scooters since 1964. Due to their outstanding quality, they are now sold in 34 countries around the globe !
Here's a link to the Canadian website: http://www.pgoscooters.ca/index_eng.html
This is their main site: http://www.pgo-scooter.com/about.php (not perfectly translated to Engrish)
About PGO

PGO scooter was founded in 1964, entering into technological cooperation with Italy's Piaggio from 1972 to 1982, with investment from the Taiwan Tea Corporation in October 1996 expanding the financial scope of Motive Power Industry Co., Ltd.

Under the supervisions of CEO and the President, MPI has built a complete and efficient way of operation. The operation can be categorized into the following: Styling, R&D, Purchasing, Manufacturing, Quality Assurance, Marketing, and Service. Each category is backed up by our knowledgeable and responsible staff. Also by focusing on after sale and customer service, MPI has forged a winning strategy for the 21st century.

A pioneer in Taiwanese scooter manufacturing
Motive Power Industry (MPI), branded with PGO, is the leading motorcycle, buggy and scooter manufacturer and exporter in Taiwan for over 30 years.

With the core business competitiveness in designing and developing motorcycle and scooter engines, parts and accessories, MPI is your reliable partner as the motorcycle and scooter manufacturer in the scooter, motorcycle, ATV and Buggy manufacturing industry
No, I'm not a spokesman nor a paid endorser of their products. I just think they are well-made.
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Len
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Longevity and Reliability

Post by Len »

A good example of the Buddy's Reliability and Longevity could be BONEGIRL ( a member of this forum ) BONEGIRL had a Buddy 125 and had ridden it over 45,000 miles.

Genuine Scooter Co was SO IMPRESSED with this that they wanted to have it on display at their headquarters in Chicago. They asked BONEGIRL if they could have her 125 and in exchange gave her a brand new Buddy Blackjack 150. This was 2 years ago.

as of yesterday 7/23/2012 She has over 30,000 miles on her new Buddy Blackjack.

I will bet that Bonegirl will be the first person to hit over 100,000 miles on a buddy. But we will have to wait a few more years for her to accomplish that.

but so far on 2 machines she has racked up over 75,000 miles.

I think that is amazing. It is indicative of the reliability of the design. It also shows that with GOOD maintenance and care these machines should last you as long as you maintain it.
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Post by gitsum79 »

Genuine/PGO makes the finest GY6 engine period.

I'll be lucky (and happy) if my SYM HD 200 EVO lasts as long...
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Syd
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Post by Syd »

gitsum79 wrote:Genuine/PGO makes the finest GY6 engine period.

I'll be lucky (and happy) if my SYM HD 200 EVO lasts as long...
Barring major accidents, with regular maintenance there is no reason for the Buddy (or your HD200 for that matter) to die before your enjoyment of it does.
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Mousenut
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Post by Mousenut »

I think a better question will be what level of cult status will classic Buddy's hold in 30+ years and will you have kept yours running for that length of time regardless of mileage.
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skully93
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Post by skully93 »

Mousenut wrote:I think a better question will be what level of cult status will classic Buddy's hold in 30+ years and will you have kept yours running for that length of time regardless of mileage.
I'll be just as interested in seeing how many miles are on ME and how I'm running in 30 years....
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Post by ericalm »

The three keys to longevity:
1. Keep it stock.
Okay, I know that there are many very reliable performance parts out there (along with crap) but even the good ones can shorten the lifespan of the scooter. They're designed to allow you to push the limits of what the scooter was designed for, and people who do a lot of modifications tend to be the ones who ride at (or beyond) those limits.

This puts a lot of added wear and tear on the rest of the scooter, including the unmodified parts. Going faster, longer, means more heat, more engine stress, more wear to the tires and brakes and suspension.

The most reliable setup is the stock one, and those parts and systems are under warranty for two years.

2. PROPER routine maintenance.
Oil changes are necessary but not enough. The full maintenance schedule should be followed, from engine and gear oil to the rollers, belt and clutch to valve checks and all the other "little" things. Small engines require relatively frequent maintenance compared to a car or even a maxiscooter or motorcycle.

3. Don't crash.
Seems obvious enough, but… There are a lot of crashed Buddys out there in salvage yards, dealer garages, insurance auctions, etc. There are a multitude of causes, but if you look through our crash reports thread, you'll see that inexperience and inability to deal with dangerous or unfamiliar conditions (weather, water, etc.) are big factors in single-vehicle crashes. Buddys appeal to many new riders and are very easy to learn on and ride. So easy that a lot of riders forego getting any kind of training (MSF Basic Rider Course), which has been shown to reduce riders' odds of crashing.

When we ran stats for the Who's Crashed thread (way back in 2008):
73% of the crashes were due to rider error
66% of riders who crashed hadn't taken the MSF
49% of riders were not fully licensed (licenses not required for 50cc scoots in some states but 91% of the crashed scooters were 125cc+)
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DCUNITED4LIFE
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Post by DCUNITED4LIFE »

I agree with most everyone here. I put 10,000 on my Blur in 2 years and I see no reason why it wouldn't go another 10,000 easily without issue. As far as the transmission goes, Eric is right, small engines do need more regular maintenance and I basically needed to overhaul mine recently at a cost of around $150 since I did the work myself. I think these scoots are well made enough that 50,000 seems like it should be a reasonable expectation for a PGO scooter with regular maintenance. I am basing this off what others have done with them seeing upwards of 20,30 even 40k on their motors. Even then, a rebuild and maybe you could get another 30-50k out of it. Like anything mechanical, often something breaks and the owner doesn't feel like the cost of repair is worth the effort on a high mileage bike. Many times this means a simple repair and the thing could have gone many additional miles or perhaps an overhaul. I like to tinker so I am looking forward to when I can get a Buddy on the cheap one day and do a rebuild. Until then, there's a lot of miles left to ride. :wink:
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Thanks, Len

Post by BoneGirl »

I honestly believe my 125 would still be running if I had it. I had no major problems in those 40K + miles except some clutch issues that were resolved.

Lots of problems were simply because of how much I rode and parts just wore out from constant use.

The Blackjack 150 (renamed The Pinkster since early on) is doing great with almost 31K. General consensus from those closest to the source say the 125 engine I had in the 2006 was a better built machine than my current 2009 150. I hated hearing that because the plan is to ride this to its death and with only two and a half years into it, I plan on a ton more miles on this engine. I have my fingers crossed.

I admit I ride hard. 20 miles to work one way, 17 miles to church one way. And I love the 2-lane roads where you can run 65. Of course there's the Drag racing...Tee! Hee! So I can't say I take it easy on my scooter. I putt over 500 miles on it this past weekend alone.

You know what they say? "Ride it like you stole it". And I do. I trust my Buddy and I love it. I sometimes think about a bigger bike and the thought lasts a minute. These scooters have performed better than I could have ever imagined. I like the low profile, the quickness, the speed, the gas efficiency and the ability to hold a ton of stuff when you add a topcase.

My advice is to quit worrying about the future of your Buddy and just get out and ride. They have been around 6 years and I think they have proven themselves. I owe a lot to my husband, Lagerhead, for keeping the scooters very well maintained. With this many miles under my belt, I know when something isn't running right and he gets in there and gets it fixed. A good mechanic means a lot.
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zuki
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Post by zuki »

BoneGirl what oil do u run and how often do u change it.
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Lagerhead
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Post by Lagerhead »

zuki wrote:BoneGirl what oil do u run and how often do u change it.
Mobil 1 5W/30

Changed at about 2500 miles or so. + every fall and spring, and right before we go on vacation (if we're taking the scooters) regardless of miles.
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andylaiphoto
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Post by andylaiphoto »

Lagerhead wrote:
zuki wrote:BoneGirl what oil do u run and how often do u change it.
Mobil 1 5W/30

Changed at about 2500 miles or so. + every fall and spring, and right before we go on vacation (if we're taking the scooters) regardless of miles.
I've been running 1500mile intervals for changes. I like the sound of 2500. Nice to know they can go that far between changes.
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ericalm
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Post by ericalm »

I split the middle at 2,000 which is probably a little on the safe side but is what's recommended. Doing your own changes helps!
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zuki
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Post by zuki »

andylaiphoto wrote:
Lagerhead wrote:
zuki wrote:BoneGirl what oil do u run and how often do u change it.
Mobil 1 5W/30

Changed at about 2500 miles or so. + every fall and spring, and right before we go on vacation (if we're taking the scooters) regardless of miles.
I've been running 1500mile intervals for changes. I like the sound of 2500. Nice to know they can go that far between changes.
So I'm guessing that is just the standard car oil.
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Tocsik
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Post by Tocsik »

ericalm wrote:I split the middle at 2,000 which is probably a little on the safe side but is what's recommended. Doing your own changes helps!
2K here, too. Gear oil every time.
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TVB

Post by TVB »

I'm about to hit 17,000 miles on a 2009 Buddy 50. That takes longer than it does on a faster scoot. :) It's a different engine from the 125/150/170 models, so this doesn't apply directly, but the quality of the hardware is pretty much on par. I have done nothing special to achieve this... seriously: I "change" (i.e. burn up) a quart of oil every not-quite-a-thousand-miles, I've gone through some spark plugs and air filters, and I'm on my second set of tires, but I don't even have it serviced as often as I should (i.e. I bring it in once a year). I'm not an "abusive" rider... unless you count my tendency to go for 1000+ mile week-long road trips once a year. The only reason not to buy a Buddy (whichever size) is: because you want a different scooter.
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Post by michelle_7728 »

Tocsik wrote:Here's a link to the Canadian website: http://www.pgoscooters.ca/index_eng.html
Interesting. They offer 125cc Internationals (and some different colors in the 50cc Buddy also) up there in Canada...http://www.pgoscooters.ca/engscooter_metro.html
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Post by ThreeSheets »

The buddy's will last as long as we do! I love when you see people say "oh my gosh you have 15k on a motorcycle", as if you had 150k. These vehicles included will go a very long time with the correct maintenance. The problem with bikes is that so many of them are crashed, that people see 10k+ mileage and think its a ton!
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