Is the Genuine Classic Cruiser a dead issue?

[PeterC]

Not a mention in many months. Has Genuine given up on a challenger to the Vespa GTS 300, Burgman and Silverwing? I'd write out a check tomorrow if I could have an aesthetically acceptable alternative to the usual "2-wheeled Buick" maxi-scooters.

[ericalm]

Not dead. I don't have specific info, but I do know that they still want to make this scooter and hope to do so when the scooter itself is what they want and the market is ready for it.

[chloefpuff]

I mentioned the cruiser to one of Phil's minions at Amerivespa and got the impression that it was dead. I hope I'm wrong and Eric is right.

[Howardr]

I mentioned it to Phil and he gave me the impression that it was a dead issue as well.

Howard

[ericalm]

I think it may be a case of "too much was said too soon." Obviously, a lot of anticipation has built up and when the scooter didn't materialize when originally planned, a lot of people were disappointed. The reasons the cruiser didn't come out when originally planned are well-known to most of us here, but that did little to dampen hopes for this scooter.

So, I definitely don't want anyone to think this is right around the corner. But it hasn't been swept under the rug or forgotten, either. I think that we're unlikely to hear anything definite or even get any teasers until this is ready to ship. They've learned their lesson about leaking too much too early in the process.

[Wheelz]

Paging Peabody, you're slipping here girl....

[mattgordon]

I'm certain Phil and the gang know many riders will and do move up into larger, and more powerful scooters.

Ultimately, in order to retain their base of happy (passionately so) Genuine Scooterists they'll have to broaden their product offerings in order to continue to grow. If not, they risk losing customers at a pace equal to or even greater than they gain them on the entry-level side.

Unfortunately, the costs and risks to develop a world-class scooter to compete with the likes of Vespa/Paiggio and Kymco are extraordinarily high. I don't believe I'm speaking out of school when I say that the whole Stella 4T debacle still probably is a painful subject for GSC, and I don't know if it's made sales goals since a painfully false start at it's "introduction".

With that being said, and in this still-fragile economy I don't think we'll see a Genuine Tourer as soon as the company or its customer base would like to. Unfortunate too, as the 300cc class has a couple of very tempting offerings now and seems to be heating up with a lot of move-ups headed towards BV350 and Kymco GTI 300 scooters from smaller scooters.

[Syd]

Count me with PeterC. I'm kinda bored with the Fiddle. It's a fine scoot and all but I'm looking for something to get my interest up again - something I can more easily ride anywhere in the metro area. I'm even considering selling the Fiddle and buying an old Riva 200.

I'd even give you $50 for a line drawing, Eric

[JHScoot]

250cc Buddy would be sweet. or the 220 from the Blur if possible

gotta be a way to stuff some bigger cc in smaller scoots

[BuddyRaton]

I can see them taking their time. They started with the Stella and then in 06 came out with the Buddy 50 and 125. Since then they have introduced a lot of different models and configurations in 6 years...internationals, Blur 150, Buddy 150 Buddy 170i, Black cat, Roughhouse Stella 4T.

I think they have done a great job rolling out new models. I know I would need to take a break!

[hardd1]

if TGB returns to the USA maybe they will bring the Bellavita 300
http://www.thescootershop.net.au/Home/t ... fault.aspx

[PeterC]

As long as the Genuine Classic Cruiser remains in the mystical Land of Conjecture, I'd be curious to know what everyone's ideas, wish lists, requirements, etc., are for their own perfect classic cruiser.

[RoaringTodd]

I'd be curious to know what everyone's ideas, wish lists, requirements, etc., are for their own perfect classic cruiser.

I've love for it to have a seat without a hump, a larger 250/300 engine, air cooling, FI, and have classic styling like the Vespa GTS/GTV

[skully93]

since my scoot needs are met for now, I can only hope that by the time the Kymco has run it's course, that such a thing would be available, because I really like Genuine and my local dealers. I would love me some vespa, but what I use the Kymco for is more suited to it's larger wheelbase, which Vespa doesn't make.

The newer, more 'cruiser' type Kymcos get great reviews, but having sat on them, I could just drive the People forever.

If a larger design ever comes into play, I hope that it has ample storage and foot space so we can move the feet around during longer trips. The hard lines of the kymco design make that tough, so I feel stiff after an hour.

The other end of that stick is that if I'm going to be riding for 3 hours regularly, I will probably buy a motorcycle, which is much more designed for such trips.

[Howardr]

KYMCO is really taking off. They will be releasing the largest US scooter next year. A 700cc monster. I don't really know any more details. They also have a new 110cc bike that, they say, out performs the Agility 125.

I don't have any KYMCO's, but the company seems to be aggressively marketing here in the states. With other companies obsessing about the economy, it seems like they saw it as an opportunity. NASCAR and the NHRA are really helping them out as well.

Howard

[JohnKiniston]

I'm kinda bored with the Fiddle. I'm even considering selling the Fiddle and buying an old Riva 200.

If your going Vintage I'd say go for a Elite 250 over a Riva. It's getting hard to get Riva parts.

My friend with a 180 is searching high and low for a exhaust gasket and none seem to be available.

[Syd]

I'd be curious to know what everyone's ideas, wish lists, requirements, etc., are for their own perfect classic cruiser.

I've love for it to have a seat without a hump, a larger 250/300 engine, air cooling, FI, and have classic styling like the Vespa GTS/GTV

I'd prefer water cooled for longevity, and slightly older styling cues.

Or a rainbow unicorn

[ericalm]

Here's the thing: Few of the non-Vespa scooters between 250cc-500cc actually sell well in the US, with the possible exception of the Burgman 400. In the over-500cc range, it's the Japanese scooters that sell, not the Taiwanese or "other."

The sport-style scooters that dominate this range just aren't moving well and don't have a lot of appeal with US customers. I'd bet that the combined sales levels of the Kymcos and SYMs in this size are less than what Genuine would want to do in a 250cc-300cc cruiser. And even Vespa's sales aren't that great; they just have the most desirable model in this size. Their big seller is the 150.

Overall scooter sales this year are still not up to pre-boom-and-bust levels. The market is still volatile, and isn't even consistently slow or growing.

Of course, the cruiser would not be just for the US market and overseas would be competing with some of the best-selling scooters internationally, including the Honda SH300. But the big boom overseas is in India and SE Asia, both of which favor smaller models. Europe and the rest of Asia are still slow.

This is probably a good time to develop new product but still not the best time to sell it.

[PeterC]

As long as we have time to develop a new product, I’ve been trying to come up with the specs for my Ideal Scooter. I think I’ve come up with some of the criteria, but aesthetically, they are definitely influenced by my love of some of the long-departed classics, such as the Maicoletta, Heinkel Tourist and Zündapp Bella. Here are some suggestions:

1. At least 300-350cc engine, air-cooled horizontal opposed twin to keep center of gravity as low as possible.
2. At least 13” wheels.
3. Seat height no more than 30”.
4. Weight no more than 350 lbs. Could keep weight down with plastic body, alloy tube frame, aluminum engine block.
5. Disc brakes, front and rear.
6. Easy access to engine, drive train and wheels.
7. Complete instrumentation: speedometer, odometer, trip odometer, tachometer, clock, fuel gauge, engine temperature, ambient temperature.
8. Capacious glovebox.
9. Front and rear tires same size.
10. Spare tire.
11. Tires replaceable without removing other components.
12. LOUD horn (Stebel Nautilus?).
13. At least one 12Volt outlet.
14. Secure sidestand, a la Harley-Davidson.
15. 3-4-gallon gas tank.
16. Kick start, in addition to electric.

Personally, I don’t care if it’s 2T or 4T. I’d prefer a manual shift, but I’d settle for an automatic, a real automatic, not CVT…with a driveshaft, not a chain or belt.

[ericalm]

As long as we have time to develop a new product, I’ve been trying to come up with the specs for my Ideal Scooter. I think I’ve come up with some of the criteria, but aesthetically, they are definitely influenced by my love of some of the long-departed classics, such as the Maicoletta, Heinkel Tourist and Zündapp Bella. Here are some suggestions:

1. At least 300-350cc engine, air-cooled horizontal opposed twin to keep center of gravity as low as possible.
2. At least 13” wheels.
3. Seat height no more than 30”.
4. Weight no more than 350 lbs. Could keep weight down with plastic body, alloy tube frame, aluminum engine block.
5. Disc brakes, front and rear.
6. Easy access to engine, drive train and wheels.
7. Complete instrumentation: speedometer, odometer, trip odometer, tachometer, clock, fuel gauge, engine temperature, ambient temperature.
8. Capacious glovebox.
9. Front and rear tires same size.
10. Spare tire.
11. Tires replaceable without removing other components.
12. LOUD horn (Stebel Nautilus?).
13. At least one 12Volt outlet.
14. Secure sidestand, a la Harley-Davidson.
15. 3-4-gallon gas tank.
16. Kick start, in addition to electric.

Personally, I don’t care if it’s 2T or 4T. I’d prefer a manual shift, but I’d settle for an automatic, a real automatic, not CVT…with a driveshaft, not a chain or belt.

Uh huh!

[JohnKiniston]

Woah, the engine is on the wrong side if your bike Eric!

[PeterC]

Oh, wait, Eric... I left out the whip antenna and the handlebar tassels.

[JohnKiniston]

Don't forget the flat floorboards!

[mattgordon]

KYMCO is really taking off. They will be releasing the largest US scooter next year. A 700cc monster. I don't really know any more details.

Howard

I understood the 700cc would NOT be coming to the US. Apparently there is conflicting inforumors?

[Dooglas]

Wow, two posters already mentioned they desired air cooling (?). One even mentioned it in the same breath as a Honda-style DSG transmission rather than a CVT. My experience has been that liquid cooling is very desirable in a cruising bike that you expect to run along happily (at a constant engine temperature) all afternoon regardless of air temperature. I have done some longer trips on a Vespa GTS and a BV 350. Both have their strong points as a cruising scooter. The big choice IMO is between a more traditional scooter configuration such as the Vespa and a big wheel configuration such as the BVs and corresponding Aprilias, Kymcos, and the like (the big "road sofas" such as the 650 Burgman don't call to me much). I thought from what I heard that Genuine was thinking in terms of something that might compete with the Vespa GTS, but sell at a lower price.

[zuki]

The problem with the Maxi scooters is that most people if they want a scooter they stay with the smaller type 200cc and smaller if they want a bigger bike the usually just buy a motorcycle. I had a Yamaha majesty 400cc I loved that scooter but I thought I need a big bike so I sold it, but it was hard to sell most people don't realize how fast it would go(over 100mph) and how comfortable it is to ride.Most people think when u say "Scooter" they are think of a small slow going bike. I think that's why the market for a big scooter is not the greatest. I had a blur 220 it was a great bike just not real good for a two up bike or long distance riding, 50 mile was alright with it much more just not big enough and just not very comfortable, and for the price of a blur you can get a small used motorcycle.

[peabody99]

Paging Peabody, you're slipping here girl....

I'm here [heaving with sadness] quess I will need to continue keeping the GTS Buddy combo going.

[ravenlore]

As long as neither the Genuine Cruiser nor the GTS350 materialize prior to 31 March 2015, I'm ok.

[PeterC]

Paging Peabody, you're slipping here girl....

I'm here [heaving with sadness] quess I will need to continue keeping the GTS Buddy combo going.

Keep up the good work. I know... we nag, but someone has to!

[neotrotsky]

if TGB returns to the USA maybe they will bring the Bellavita 300
http://www.thescootershop.net.au/Home/t ... fault.aspx

Now, I do love the look of that but honestly it looks too much like a Vespa GTS. Then again, I loved the Vespa GTS... just not the pretentiousness of New Vespa and their horrible parts and dealer network. I don't foresee that ever landing here sadly.

The only experience I've had with TGB scooters were some 150 and 50cc 2-strokers that Domino's Pizza corporate bought as delivery bikes in the Tempe/downtown Phoenix area. They didn't last long and lived a hard life. And, they suffered from zero parts and a dealership that didn't give a damn about it's customers (but somehow still stays open)

[Rippinyarn]

If it's not dead, then it's on life support. Hanging out with Philip at the events of Amerivespa, one heard a lot of things, but the big-cruiser wasn't one of them. I bet over half the stuff he says are just decoys, perhaps thinking out loud or they could be rock-solid plans for the future. Too bad I had a few beers with the Rovers before hand and forgot everything.

[jrsjr]

Paging Peabody, you're slipping here girl....

I'm here [heaving with sadness] quess I will need to continue keeping the GTS Buddy combo going.

How do you like your BV350? What you change about it to make it more like your perfect Genuine Cruiser?

[Dooglas]

How do you like your BV350? What you change about it to make it more like your perfect Genuine Cruiser?

The BV 350 handles long distances fine. It is smooth, comfortable, and reliable. It also has plenty of room for gear on a several day trip. The only real downside is that it is more like cruising on a motorcycle. If a rider really wants to do a longer trip on a true scooter - the closest you can come is a Vespa GTS. It is certainly capable of extended cruising but you feel the difference with the smaller wheels, more limited suspension, more limited range, and somewhat less space for gear. Not that it doesn't do the job, and quite reliably at that - it is just that the BV seems more solid and less fuss on a longer run. Could Genuine improve on the GTS design? Oh, I'm sure they could - but I'm not sure they could build a better cruiser and sell it significantly cheaper. For what it's worth, Piaggio sells the BV 350 for a $1000 less than the GTS. I don't suppose Genuine could price a 250-300 cruiser much of any less than that.

[mattgordon]

How do you like your BV350? What you change about it to make it more like your perfect Genuine Cruiser?

The BV 350 handles long distances fine. It is smooth, comfortable, and reliable. It also has plenty of room for gear on a several day trip. The only real downside is that it is more like cruising on a motorcycle. If a rider really wants to do a longer trip on a true scooter - the closest you can come is a Vespa GTS. It is certainly capable of extended cruising but you feel the difference with the smaller wheels, more limited suspension, more limited range, and somewhat less space for gear. Not that it doesn't do the job, and quite reliably at that - it is just that the BV seems more solid and less fuss on a longer run. Could Genuine improve on the GTS design? Oh, I'm sure they could - but I'm not sure they could build a better cruiser and sell it significantly cheaper. For what it's worth, Piaggio sells the BV 350 for a $1000 less than the GTS. I don't suppose Genuine could price a 250-300 cruiser much of any less than that.

FWIW I think the BV350 is under-priced. Shhhh, don't tell Piaggio!

(I know you and I have been involved in other discussions on MV around a related subject Dooglas, and I believe Piaggio underpriced it on purpose...)