Blackjack Handlebar Vibration Worsening

BoneGirl · Post by **BoneGirl** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:15 pm

The last year I have experienced increasing problems with handlebar vibration around the 40mph mark. If I let go of the handlebars for a second you can see the handlebars/mirrors shaking violently at times; seems to be a forward and backward motion and not a side to side vibration. If I have a map mounted to my left mirror handle I can no longer read it depending on what speed I'm cruising.

We have changed wheels, tires and bead additions, head bearings, axle, variator, clutch and belts with no improvement.

It's really starting to hurt my hands now and I am getting super bummed out because I ride 1,000+ miles/month on average. 40-45mph is a regular cruising speed if the speed limit is 35mph. So daily work commutes or weekly rides mean I get to deal with this a lot.

Any other ideas, suggestions or general thoughts?

I realize I ride this scooter much more than many so maybe the bike just isn't meant to be ridden this much, but I certainly hope this isn't the case. It's only about 2 and a half years old and I don't want it to go bad on me yet.

Thanks for any help you can lend.

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:23 pm

BoneGirl wrote:The last year I have experienced increasing problems with handlebar vibration around the 40mph mark. If I let go of the handlebars for a second you can see the handlebars/mirrors shaking violently at times; seems to be a forward and backward motion and not a side to side vibration. If I have a map mounted to my left mirror handle I can no longer read it depending on what speed I'm cruising.

We have changed wheels, tires and bead additions, head bearings, axle, variator, clutch and belts with no improvement.

It's really starting to hurt my hands now and I am getting super bummed out because I ride 1,000+ miles/month on average. 40-45mph is a regular cruising speed if the speed limit is 35mph. So daily work commutes or weekly rides mean I get to deal with this a lot.

Any other ideas, suggestions or general thoughts?

I realize I ride this scooter much more than many so maybe the bike just isn't meant to be ridden this much, but I certainly hope this isn't the case. It's only about 2 and a half years old and I don't want it to go bad on me yet.

Thanks for any help you can lend.

Do you have a windshield? I could see that causing a vibration if it isn't installed correctly.

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:36 pm

Maybe the bearings in the steering/triple tree?
Get a partner and put the scooter up on the center stand. One of you sit on the seat so the front wheel is off the ground and the other grab the wheel and push/pull, whatever it takes to check for excess play (especially front to back given what you describe). Do the same with the handlebars. Basically, check for any movement other than the usual left/right steering or suspension compression.

Good luck BG!

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:26 pm

Bad (worn out from all the riding you do) front shock(s)?

BoneGirl · Post by **BoneGirl** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:59 pm

Syd wrote:Bad (worn out from all the riding you do) front shock(s)?

I can't believe you said that! Ben mentioned shocks over the weekend and he plans on switching his Buddy shocks to mine to see if it fixes the problem. Didn't mention it on purpose to see if anyone else thought it could be that. Thanks, Syd.

ed85379: No windshield.

Tocsik:

Maybe the bearings in the steering/triple tree?

I'll see if Ben has messed with this yet. Thank you.

Good ideas. I appreciate it and will keep you informed.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:19 pm

You're our ultimate beta tester for these things, so we always look in your direction!

Good luck, hope it is simple.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:34 pm

Steering bearings and wheels (rims/tires) are the most common sources of something like this. If the scooter had been dropped badly or crashed, I'd say forks, too. So… shocks seem like a possibility!

Hope you get it worked out; let us know!

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:22 pm

1.)Make sure the forks are "even" in the clamps and not slightly off.

2.) Same brand of tire? it COULD be the tire. I have changed tires on bikes (changing NOTHING else) and had weird handling issues show up.

3.) check the rim, check the rim again, tire seated all the way on the bead? spin the rim on a truing stand and see if its "true"

The 35-40 MPH zone is known to be a problem on many bikes and scooters some you can fix, some you can't.

4.) Have those steering head bearings checked one more time

5.) AND, you will laugh, but I've seen it before. Check the rear swingarm , make sure its tight with no play and last check the rear rim for true as well.

BoneGirl · Post by **BoneGirl** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:03 am

viney266 wrote:1.)Make sure the forks are "even" in the clamps and not slightly off.

2.) Same brand of tire? it COULD be the tire. I have changed tires on bikes (changing NOTHING else) and had weird handling issues show up.

3.) check the rim, check the rim again, tire seated all the way on the bead? spin the rim on a truing stand and see if its "true"

The 35-40 MPH zone is known to be a problem on many bikes and scooters some you can fix, some you can't.

4.) Have those steering head bearings checked one more time

5.) AND, you will laugh, but I've seen it before. Check the rear swingarm , make sure its tight with no play and last check the rear rim for true as well.

2) I go through quite a few tires and it hasn't made a difference in what tires I have used

3) Rims and tires have been checked and double checked every tire change. Wheels and rims have all been changed several times.

4) Steering heads were checked and checked and just for giggles, we checked again tonight and all solid.

So I'll pass the other two on to Ben and see if he has done those as well (and I bet he has),

Bike hasn't been crashed or dropped, BTW. So many cities have crap for roads and I often wonder what all those potholes and rumbles are doing to the bike. That's why Ben (Lagerhead) is always checking so many things.

Thanks again and we'll keep working on this.

Robbie · Post by **Robbie** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:55 pm

I'm thinking along the same lines as viney266 as far as the swingarm/engine mount pivot.

Loose bolt or bushing worn out, allowing both side play and verticle vibration.....rear shock mounting too....top and bottom.

A wheel vibration is low amplitude and occurs at wheel rotation speed.
You are describing the normal single cylinder engine vibration being transfered into the chassis and ultimatly, the handlebars.

That or a imbalanced clutch or variator.....something that spins at high speed, not a wheel.

Keep us informed please,

Rob

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:12 pm

Have you inspected all the welds in the frame? I'm no expert but since you've done so much riding and all those miles equals a lot of vibration/stress... and since you've already checked everything else...

BoneGirl · Post by **BoneGirl** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:52 pm

Robbie wrote:
That or a imbalanced clutch or variator.....something that spins at high speed, not a wheel.

Rob

We recently replaced the clutch and variator and that made no difference.

BoneGirl · Post by **BoneGirl** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:00 am

well, Gang, we have done all the suggestions you made and the last thing to try was the front forks so we changed them out to Ben's Buddy forks because they didn't seem to have quite as many miles on them. Just came back from a 20 mile ride and the vibration at 40mph still exists. I think everything is just worn out and I may have to just start spending money and buy all new everything and see if it gets better. I know it's not my mechanic because he works on so many scooters all the time and is mechanical by trade (Thanks, Ben).

So just bummed out because this weekend is a scooter Rally and next weekend is our annual trip to the Dragon and I hate not having a bike that's running as well as possible down there on all those curves. We'll keep tinkering and see what happens. If it holds out the next few weeks, I'll begin the re-haul and buy new brakes, shocks and forks and proceed from there. Daggone it.

I got the Pinkster to ride so I'm not going to slow down; just have to deal with it a piece at a time. Thanks again for all your help.

BTW Turned over another grand while out tonight.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:13 am

hope you get it all worked out, bonegirl. sounds like you've gone through it pretty well so far. 34,000m is a lot, though. not as much as the original "pinkster," though. must be a solution?

my own suggestion after many would be to try some substantial bar end weights. you may already have, it may have already been suggested, or it might just be a wrong headed idea? but its all i've got

BoneGirl · Post by **BoneGirl** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:16 am

JHScoot wrote:hope you get it all worked out, bonegirl. sounds like you've gone through it pretty well so far. 34,000m is a lot, though. not as much as the original "pinkster," though. must be a solution?

my own suggestion after many would be to try some substantial bar end weights. you may already have, it may have already been suggested, or it might just be a wrong headed idea? but its all i've got

Good idea, and yes, I have the weights. Even emptied the topcase to see if that would make a difference. My first Buddy had more miles and didn't have these problems but it may just be the bike; every scooter is a little different. I won't give up on it yet. Thanks a bunch.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:18 am

also their is a vibration deadening material used for noise suppression / audio enhancement in autos. its called dynomat. just apply a small piece to whatever you want to stop vibrating....and it stops. if the vibrating piece is made of metal. it won't "fix" something mechanical, but you never know

just a thought....

BoneGirl · Post by **BoneGirl** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:49 am

JHScoot wrote:also their is a vibration deadening material used for noise suppression / audio enhancement in autos. its called dynomat. just apply a small piece to whatever you want to stop vibrating....and it stops. if the vibrating piece is made of metal. it won't "fix" something mechanical, but you never know

just a thought....

It's just so specific to that mph that it makes me crazy. Faster is OK and down to 30 is OK but anything close to 40 you can watch the mirrors start to shake and feel it in your hands. And to be honest, sometimes it's not as bad as other times. But I know at some point during the ride it will start. Sometimes sooner than later so I can't even say it happens at the beginning of a ride or the end of a ride or the middle of the ride. There's nothing that identifies what or when it will start or when it will stop.

buddyguy · Post by **buddyguy** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:51 am

BoneGirl wrote:
JHScoot wrote:also their is a vibration deadening material used for noise suppression / audio enhancement in autos. its called dynomat. just apply a small piece to whatever you want to stop vibrating....and it stops. if the vibrating piece is made of metal. it won't "fix" something mechanical, but you never know

just a thought....
It's just so specific to that mph that it makes me crazy. Faster is OK and down to 30 is OK but anything close to 40 you can watch the mirrors start to shake and feel it in your hands. And to be honest, sometimes it's not as bad as other times. But I know at some point during the ride it will start. Sometimes sooner than later so I can't even say it happens at the beginning of a ride or the end of a ride or the middle of the ride. There's nothing that identifies what or when it will start or when it will stop.

2 questions. Have you tried balancing the tire? I think you said you changed the entire wheel but just in case. More importantly have you tried changing the front axle? If you haven't, I'd give it a shot.

easy · Post by **easy** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:15 am

have you used dyno beads alaska leathers sells them little beads you put inside the tire to balance them

BoneGirl · Post by **BoneGirl** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:44 am

Axle has been changed, tires balanced and balance beads are always used. Ben even added more beads to see if that would help and it didn't.

buddyguy · Post by **buddyguy** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:56 pm

BoneGirl wrote:Axle has been changed, tires balanced and balance beads are always used. Ben even added more beads to see if that would help and it didn't.

Ok cool. So the I think you have the front of the bike covered. I'm thinking you probably have some type of harmonic distortion going on, and since the front end of the buddy is it's weakest link that's probably where it would appear most predominately. (just an educated guess).

Question: When the vibration starts to happen do you feel it in the seat or the floor board first and then spread out? If so, I'd try a few things.

1. check your motor mounts
2. swap the exhaust (to see if it changes the speed of where the vibrations begin) possibly if you have a different exhaust the test would work better. ex: stock pipe vs prima pipe.

If you end up doing this, please let me know. I'm curious to find out where the vibration is coming from and I hope this helps.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:55 pm

BoneGirl wrote:
JHScoot wrote:also their is a vibration deadening material used for noise suppression / audio enhancement in autos. its called dynomat. just apply a small piece to whatever you want to stop vibrating....and it stops. if the vibrating piece is made of metal. it won't "fix" something mechanical, but you never know

just a thought....
It's just so specific to that mph that it makes me crazy. Faster is OK and down to 30 is OK but anything close to 40 you can watch the mirrors start to shake and feel it in your hands. And to be honest, sometimes it's not as bad as other times. But I know at some point during the ride it will start. Sometimes sooner than later so I can't even say it happens at the beginning of a ride or the end of a ride or the middle of the ride. There's nothing that identifies what or when it will start or when it will stop.

well this is just so strange. what it frustrating is it seems a speed specific problem but it would seem all things mechanical related to speed and the front has been looked at and changed. maybe it is vibrating near the front end and some transfer is going on? as another poster said "harmonic transfer. it is a small frame scooter, after all

but well maintained one, too. so its looked after well. if something were amiss or loose or broken somewhere i would think you would know

i hate scooters sometimes because you want them to be simple and sometimes they just aren't. but really, you would think we could figure this thing out just looking at it

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:09 pm

Has the fork oil been checked or changed?

BoneGirl · Post by **BoneGirl** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:26 am

Things seemed to go from bad to worse last night and today after we swapped forks. Still have the 40mph vibration and when I get to 43-45, I have wobble when I let go of the handlebars. Cruised a highway today at 75 and everything was wonderful...until I started decreasing the speed and there comes the shake. Not violent but I feel it.

No vibration anywhere else on the bike; not seat or floorboards. Ben says it's too low frequency to be the engine.

I asked him to clean up my old forks and I bought fluid tonight to put all new in. I'm happy going back to my original forks if it keeps that wobble out!

He has been reviewing all your posts and checking everything again. By golly, I am going to get to the bottom of this because the scooter is too new to be having too many weird problems. I don't think it's dangerous as much as a nuisance at this point.

I have a long mirror stem and a short mirror stem because one of my long ones broke pretty soon after getting the scooter (they love to detach form the stem where they join the mirror and fly off into the great unknown). So someone suggested I take off the mirrors and see what happens when I ride. Then I will steal yet another part from Ben's Buddy and get two long mirrors on it and see if there is any change. I was told this is a long shot but at this point I appreciate ANY shot.

And the mystery continue....JHScoot, I laughed out loud at your pictures. This has been a common site around my place for quite some time. I needed the laugh.

easy · Post by **easy** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:40 am

mine does it a little bit I got some grips with foam inside leather outside helped alot
.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:34 am

bonegirl if the blackjack bites the dust how disappointed will you be? i mean a nice 74,000 combined mileage on two small engine scoots can't be all bad

might another make be in your future if this current scooter poops out soon? i saw a vid of you some years back on a Honda SH. you looked good on it, and rode it well it seemed. prob not much fun on track days, though

scootERIK · Post by **scootERIK** » Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:33 am

Does where you sit on the seat have any affect on the vibrations? Try sitting as far forward as you can, and as far back as you can.

buddyguy · Post by **buddyguy** » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:37 pm

BoneGirl wrote:Things seemed to go from bad to worse last night and today after we swapped forks. Still have the 40mph vibration and when I get to 43-45, I have wobble when I let go of the handlebars. Cruised a highway today at 75 and everything was wonderful...until I started decreasing the speed and there comes the shake. Not violent but I feel it.

No vibration anywhere else on the bike; not seat or floorboards. Ben says it's too low frequency to be the engine.

I asked him to clean up my old forks and I bought fluid tonight to put all new in. I'm happy going back to my original forks if it keeps that wobble out!

He has been reviewing all your posts and checking everything again. By golly, I am going to get to the bottom of this because the scooter is too new to be having too many weird problems. I don't think it's dangerous as much as a nuisance at this point.

I have a long mirror stem and a short mirror stem because one of my long ones broke pretty soon after getting the scooter (they love to detach form the stem where they join the mirror and fly off into the great unknown). So someone suggested I take off the mirrors and see what happens when I ride. Then I will steal yet another part from Ben's Buddy and get two long mirrors on it and see if there is any change. I was told this is a long shot but at this point I appreciate ANY shot.

And the mystery continue....JHScoot, I laughed out loud at your pictures. This has been a common site around my place for quite some time. I needed the laugh.

I have a theory. My buddy and every buddy that I have ridden has some type of vibration on the handle bars. I can see on mine that when it does happen you can see the head move back and forth when it's happening. It's not excessive and it's tolerable but it's there. Looking at the the way the frame is built, my theory is that over time that part of the frame that holds the stem, bearings and all that has become weaker and vibrates more than usual. This is just my theory and in order to prove it or attempt to fix it, I would weld some reinforcement plates to the frame. Some of the racers will weld a chrome moly tube from the center of the frame to the stem in order to have more stiffness. (not that I would suggest that) Some triangle plates in the stem housing area may work better if you want to try it.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:15 am

want to post this link for bonegirl. just some handlebar vibration talk on a cycle forum but i suppose any ideas might help

http://www.s1000rrforum.com/forum/bmw-s ... my-s1.html

also want to mention Dynamat again. it may be a help if not a cure, but it could be worth a shot to place some on the handlebars and frame

this will give you an idea of what it could do. Dynamat deadens noise by halting VIBRATION where ever its placed. so if say the frame is vibrating somewhere and the vibration is traveling it will STOP traveling wherever a small piece of Dynamat is placed. and if a small piece is applied to the spot(s) the vibrating originates from it should stop it all together

should

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PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:23 am

Sounds like snake oil to me.

Vibration is a symptom of a greater problem, and even if this Dynomat product worked, it could be masking the underlying issue.

easy · Post by **easy** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:05 am

after changing front ends basically and it got worse than the prima forks and stuff is working. Maybe a bad weld somewhere or loose/broken engine mount. I can see where a loose or bad engine mount would be speed/rpm related and give you fits at certain speed

BoneGirl · Post by **BoneGirl** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:44 am

Enviromoto looked at it this weekend and thinks it's in the steering tube so gonna' get into that once again.

Thanks again for keeping up with all this and continue to focus on the possible causes and solutions.

buddyguy · Post by **buddyguy** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:57 am

BoneGirl wrote:Enviromoto looked at it this weekend and thinks it's in the steering tube so gonna' get into that once again.

Thanks again for keeping up with all this and continue to focus on the possible causes and solutions.

What exactly is the steering tube? Do you mean the steering stem that goes thru the frame and the front forks are mounted to it. Or the tube on the frame where the steering stem goes thru?

Lagerhead · Post by **Lagerhead** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:02 am

buddyguy wrote:
BoneGirl wrote:Enviromoto looked at it this weekend and thinks it's in the steering tube so gonna' get into that once again.

Thanks again for keeping up with all this and continue to focus on the possible causes and solutions.

What exactly is the steering tube? Do you mean the steering stem that goes thru the frame and the front forks are mounted to it. Or the tube on the frame where the steering stem goes thru?

She means, He thinks the steering bearings are loose. So... yes

rfman81 · Post by **rfman81** » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:18 pm

I am curious on this topic. My buddy does something similar. It's most noticeable around 30 to 40 and if I let go of the handle bars it moves a good 1 inch either side to side or front and back at higher speeds. I think it has always done it. I only have 2800 on it as of now.

monnoracing · Post by **monnoracing** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:26 am

I have noticed the same vibrations on my new 170i after about 1200 miles it started getting worse. I am in the Bicycle industry and have had noises I thought were in the head tube and headset bearings and it ended up being on the bottom of the frame in the cranks. Noise travels through the tubes and im sure the vibrations do the same. So I think its actually the motor mounting areas.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:40 pm

rfman81 wrote:I am curious on this topic. My buddy does something similar. It's most noticeable around 30 to 40 and if I let go of the handle bars it moves a good 1 inch either side to side or front and back at higher speeds. I think it has always done it. I only have 2800 on it as of now.

My Kymco with a lot more miles on it does it very visibly if I take one hand off to wave or signal. I feel nothing with both hands on there though.

I figured my forks were just beat up!

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:45 pm

This is a common problem with the GTS Vespa. Some say wheel balancing resolves it but, in my case, it was the torquing of the headset/steering bearings. They did not feel loose and there was no obvious play in any direction but tightening them made the shake at 30-35 mph go away.

BoneGirl · Post by **BoneGirl** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:28 am

Well, in hindsight I guess we should have taken it into the scooter shop while it was still under Warranty because this started at a year and a half old. But Ben is a really good mechanic and he just started working on all the obvious things. The vibration would improve slightly so I'd forget about it until it would start again. So he would take it apart and look for a new cause, adjust, replace, repair whatever he thought was a possible cause and we'd move forward again. But it always returned and just became a bigger and bigger problem. The last year has just escalated so running out of causes.

I just returned from North Carolina and the Dragon and it was hard to handle the curves because the vibrating speed is constantly between 35-45mph, which is where you run in those curves.

I think the motor is fine so thinking about putting it in Ben's 125 buddy and doing some other swap outs to see if I can get an improved ride. Maybe once the weather gets cold I can let it sit while he works on it. I'm gonna' have a FrankenBuddy by the time we're finished.

Thanks for the continued help with all this and your input. Your support really does help me get through this. I spend so much time on this scooter and I love it so it's just bumming me out like you can't imagine.

BoneGirl · Post by **BoneGirl** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:08 am

Got home from work last night and Ben had the Pinkster ready for me to ride. I rode it on the highway and all around. Guess what? No vibration!

I noticed some "buzz" in the handlebars and he said that was possibly just a valve adjustment because he had been working on those.

Then I asked what he did to get the handlebars to stop vibrating and he said, "Nothing" in particular. He told me to look at the bike and see what was different. I didn't notice anything. He finally had to tell me he took the topcase off! What?!

I have a really nice Shad case that is mounted solid as can be. I make sure I put as little in it as possible to keep the weight down. So if that's what 's been creating the problem I am going to faint! It was really late when I got back from riding last night and it poured down the rain today. So tomorrow I will ride it again with the topcase back on. Ben said he was sure he checked this at some point in the last year and a half but I don't remember him looking at this aspect specifically. He recently bought a giant aluminum Givi case for his Big Ruckus and had to remove it and sell it because it made such a massive shift in how the bike handled. I guess that's what made him think of my topcase yesterday. I always remove it when I race every month but never notice vibration or much of anything else because I am concentrating on racing.

So hold onto your hats and I will let you know tomorrow what the verdict is. I sure hate it to be something this simple after all the hard work Ben has put into this over the last year, as well as taking his Buddy apart and buying a lot of new parts for mine. But on the other hand, finally finding the problem would be absolutely phenomenal!

buddyguy · Post by **buddyguy** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:35 am

cool!

so where do you race?

BoneGirl · Post by **BoneGirl** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:39 am

buddyguy wrote:cool!

so where do you race?

Brown County Dragway in Nashville, Indiana. Once a month we do bracket racing. Our last race is October14th.

https://www.facebook.com/events/132072390254839/

http://usascooterracing.com/

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:42 am

BoneGirl wrote:So hold onto your hats and I will let you know tomorrow what the verdict is. I sure hate it to be something this simple after all the hard work Ben has put into this over the last year, as well as taking his Buddy apart and buying a lot of new parts for mine. But on the other hand, finally finding the problem would be absolutely phenomenal!

Fingers crossed!

My Riva 180 originally came with a backrest and an oversized flat rack installed. I would up removing it, mainly because the backrest got in the way of opening the seat. The handling changed dramatically for the better! Now, I just last a small travel bag to the stock rack if I need to carry stuff. It's amazing how much weight hanging aft of the rear axle can alter the handling!

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:45 pm

Could be weight, could be aerodynamics. A burble of unstable air between the rider and the case could do Bad Things.

BoneGirl · Post by **BoneGirl** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:33 pm

Well, Kids, it's the dang topcase! I rode today with it on and off and sure enough, when it's off the wheel wobble goes completely away and the front to back vibration is barely noticeable.

This is just unbelievable to me. Even when empty I have problems. I bought this case at Iron Pony in 2010 right after I got the scooter but didn't seem to notice any problems until long afterwards. (Ben says it's the 100 stickers I have put on it since it was purchased.

).

So not sure what or how things changed or why I didn't notice until the past year but it really is a relief to know this is the major cause of all the vibration in the handlebars. Now that I'm thinking about it, I had problems with the rear rack breaking a couple times and Ben made me a brand new heavy duty rack. So there's the difference between when I first added the topcase and today; I have a better made, heavy duty rack to keep it from breaking and to support the topcase. Unreal.

Thanks a million for all the ideas. I told you Ben thought of all the possible causes of the problem but this accessory idea was never given a thought.

If nothing else, maybe it will shed some light on anyone else that ever encounters this problem.

Let's close this case and do a celebratory ride! Hooray! Now to find a new case and another 35K miles!

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:41 pm

Wow. Who'd'a thunk it. Makes me want to try taking my top case off and seeing what difference it makes.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:44 pm

Glad you got it sorted out!

I can believe it ...air flow etc...but honestly...I don't think I ever would have thought of that as causing a handling problem.

Another scooter tidbit to stick into the back of my head!

BoneGirl · Post by **BoneGirl** » Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:44 am

Well, I was just talking to Ben and he said I was wrong. The rack is the same one I had from Day 1. I have broken so many racks I thought this was a new one he built but he said he learned long ago I needed better racks.

So what changed? He says a bike with 35K is a changed bike. For whatever reason, the aerodynamics have changed and what was OK a year and a half ago is older and more worn now. So for whatever reason, the handling of the bike has changed with the topcase mounted.

So we're going to find a lighter case and see if that works.

scootERIK · Post by **scootERIK** » Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:06 pm

I didn't know you had a topcase. I've had scooters that would shake the handlebars with anything over a few pounds on the rear rack(Honda Elite 80s.) You may want to experiment with the rear shock, it might be getting worn or soft after all those miles.

opie1965 · Post by **opie1965** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:44 am

I recently bought a new 2012 Buddy 125. I've driven 500 miles on it and the vibration in my throttle hand is unbearable after 30 minutes of riding. My hand literally goes numb. I've decided to pay off this scooter and look at getting a 300-500cc Kymco instead with the hopes that the vibration on these larger scooters is balanced out within the bike. I read about this Buddy 125 online for two years before making the purchase so I'm a little disappointed. Great little scooter if it didn't vibrate so much.

Modern Buddy

Blackjack Handlebar Vibration Worsening

Blackjack Handlebar Vibration Worsening

Re: Blackjack Handlebar Vibration Worsening

Thank you

Done

Heavy sigh...

Daggone it

Re: Daggone it

Tires

Re: Tires

Re: Daggone it

You are all so awesome!

Re: You are all so awesome!

So far

Re: So far

Re: So far

Just gets worse...

Maybe the topcase

Racing

Re: Maybe the topcase

Diagnosis confirmed

Maybe not that exactly...

Handlebar vibrating