Battery died while riding my new-ish Buddy 125 :(

[savannv]

Hi y'all.

So today my Buddy just shut off while commuting to school, about 5 miles along my usual drive. Roadside assistance jumped my battery, and I made it home without a problem. Since then, I've started it twice successfully.

But I'm worried! Why might this happen, especially mid-ride? I hadn't left the killswitch or ignition on, or anything unusual like that. And for the past couple months, I've ridden the scooter just about every weekday. Could it be more than a battery problem?

It's a 2009 Buddy 125, brand new when I purchased it in spring of this year, and right now it has just under 800 mi. on it. I did all the proper maintenance before the standard 500 mi. check--so I'm thinking this scooter should be in just about tip-top shape.

Luckily, it's still under warranty, and perhaps it'll go back to behaving normally, but in case it doesn't, I want to consult fellow Buddy people before I rely on the wisdom of the old con artists at the local Yamaha dealership.

Any ideas would be very much appreciated!

[tortoise]

Buddy just shut off

The "usual suspects" include spark plug and coil connections.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UU4S0Ov9q4c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[savannv]

Hmm. Okay, thanks!

Is it weird that there'd be a problem with those things at this point in my scooter's life? Especially if it was just inspected by the dealer about a month ago? Maybe not. I really need to learn more about how these things work.

[mhardgrove]

It shut off, but were able to get it jump started? That sounds odd if nothing on your bike was touched by the roadside service tech. Did you watch the tech to see if perhaps they did something other than jump it? Did you attempt to restart it with the kick starter before roadside assistance arrived? Reason I say that is you can start and run a Buddy without having a battery via the kickstarter. It uses the power from the strator (generator/alternator) to run the systems.

Just sounds odd if all they did was jump it. If it makes you feel better have it looked over especially if it's under warranty. I will say it shouldn't just shut off, and I personally doubt it's anything to do with the battery (but I can be wrong)!

[Tocsik]

Generally, a dead battery won't kill the scooter while you're riding it. It just makes it so you have to use the kick starter to get it going and some of the electrics (like blinkers and horn) won't work well or not at all. Once the scooter is running, it's not really using the battery for basic motor functions.
Sounds more like a bad connection or bad stator. It also sounds like you are still under warranty so, not to worry! Just take it back to your dealer and have them fix it under the warranty.

[savannv]

It shut off, but were able to get it jump started? That sounds odd if nothing on your bike was touched by the roadside service tech. Did you watch the tech to see if perhaps they did something other than jump it?

Nope, all he did was jump start it as I looked on. I didn't try kickstarting it because I also doubted it was the battery, it being a relatively new scooter, and I was kinda afraid to continue riding. I was thinking I'd end up getting towed to the dealership. But the roadside guy wasn't all that helpful--grunted at my explanation of the problem, went straight to jumping it, and just shrugged when I asked him why this happened.

I think I will indeed go get it checked out.

Thanks for the suggestions!

[That Scooter Guy]

In the video the guy tested the electrical system using known-good components.

However, if you have a service manual with the specs, you can test most of them with a multimeter. I don't think the CDI box can be tested (clinic 8 at MMI was a looong time ago for me)

[rick71454]

Hello Savannv:

Test the battery strength yourself. You can buy a very inexpensive battery testor at Harbor Freight for as low as$4. A good battery should be waiting there above 12 volts ready to start. When the scooter is running, it is about 13v. If it is running and it is less 12v, that would be a weaker recharge level. If you get the battery recharged to at least 12v, then the next day it is less than 12, like 10v, then I would say your battery should be replaced. Check the connection between the battery terminals and the battery clamps to make sure the connection is good.

As Tocsik was suggesting, it could be the Stator. I had this part replaced not once, but twice in my 1988 Honda Elite E 49cc. Turns out a mouse chewed on the Stator and wrecked that part. The scooter would just cut out even at high speed.

IN the end, your Buddy 125 is still warranted and so you might just take it in to the shop. I also know about con artist shops and their mechanics, they do exist.

Rick71454

[bluebuddygirl]

A three year old battery is not new, not even almost new, especially if the bike wasn't being ridden. I didn't read every single bit of each response, but you can easily have the battery tested at auto zone or someplace similar. The scooter will not die mid-ride even if the battery does, unless as others have suggested the problem is not the battery.

[savannv]

Just wanted to update everyone here about this problem, which, unbelievably, is still unresolved. I'll try to be as brief as possible, but I also think it's a long story worth sharing with other Buddy riders. I've had a miserable time with Genuine.

Took the scooter to my dealer and they were unable to duplicate the problem, so I picked it up without them doing anything to the scooter. I'd contacted Genuine directly about the problem before I even brought the scooter to the dealer, but I received no response until after I pestered them again several days later, after visiting the dealer. They told me they figured that the problem had been caused by over-filling the gas tank (my tank was close to full when the scooter shut off).

Rode the scooter for around 200 miles more before the problem happened again. I was once again mid-ride when the scooter began lurching and shut off in traffic. I coasted over and was able to re-start the scooter just a minute later, and then it drove very weakly around the corner into a parking lot. This time my tank was about a quarter-full, so I knew it wasn't an over-filling issue. Called Genuine Roadside and waited over an hour for a tow to the dealer, only to get a truck that had never towed a motorcycle/scooter before. Turned down the tow and was able to drive the scooter the couple miles left to my home. It made it but was obviously struggling during the ride. A couple days later, I then had the scooter towed to the dealership again (not through Roadside).

This time they kept my scooter for 3 weeks. Once again they couldn't duplicate the problem and claimed the scooter was running normally. After 1 week of riding it, however, the scooter stuttered once, and afterwards they discovered a fuel clog, which they repaired. They also claimed to check the stator and said it tested okay. Then I had them ride the scooter 20 mi. a day for the next several business days. During this time Genuine was almost always impossible to reach, taking days to respond both to my and the dealer's phone calls, and overall being really hands-off about the whole thing. For the last week that my scooter was with the dealer, I was simply calling Genuine every day trying to get in touch with someone to determine whether they believed that it was safe for me to pick up the scooter. They finally told me that yes, I should pick up the scooter, and I did.

Not even 100 mi. later, it shut off for the THIRD time. This time I had just started the scooter and was letting it warm up in my driveway. It ran for a full five seconds or more before shutting off completely--not a regular cold start, but a complete and abrupt shut-off. I re-started the scooter and it was apparent that it was struggling. Immediately called the dealer and Genuine and raised holy hell. Got the dealer to come pick up the scooter themselves, and Genuine said they'd have a conference call with the dealership the very next day. This was just before the holiday weekend. When I called the dealer the next business day, however, they told me that Genuine reps not only never called, but are in fact un-reachable because the whole company is on a holiday break until the 3rd. As my scooter is under warranty, the repairs and labor costs have to be pre-approved by Genuine--that means that the dudes at Yamaha can only ride the thing in circles until the 3rd.

So there it is, and sorry for the length. Any advice at all is welcome, but I really just wanted to share my experience with everyone. Once again, this is a scooter I bought brand new from the dealership less than a year ago, with less than 1300mi. on it, which I've taken care of diligently. Never even dropped the thing once. I feel like it can’t be that grave a problem, but unfortunately, I just can’t afford to break the warranty, and I don’t know what else to do.

[velobuff]

Lemon law?

Tell Genuine you want a new scooter.

Tell them youre going to post your experiences until you get satisfaction.

[savannv]

Unfortunately, Florida Lemon Laws do not cover motorcycles/mopeds.

I have threatened to file a complaint with the BBB anyway.

You're right, I should demand a new scooter. Even if it's a small, fixable problem, it shouldn't be happening at this stage--plus, at this point I don't think I could ever trust these people to totally, reliably fix anything. What I'd really like is my money back, but I'm not sure I have any legal recourse for that.

[skully93]

I would say patience is a virtue here.

If it sputters and dies, it very may well be a gas issue. Mine did it a few times until @ 800 miles, and now I can overfill it to the moon and it won't die. It occurred several times even underfilled. I brought it up with my shop, whom I trust, and they said the same thing. "everything checks out, we replaced your plug and wire just in case, let us know."

It hasn't reared it's head since.

I wouldn't worry that you have an old battery, they generally don't set them up until you buy it.

if it keeps happening however, reiterate it with your shop, and with Genuine if it doesn't get resolved. With rare exception things seem to get resolved.

[jrsjr]

Stator. It's fairly common. Here's a good example from another site. Start about 3/4s of the way down page 7 and read Noisymilk and Mrsmilk's posts until he fixes the problem, complete with pictures and explanation, on page 11.

[CROSSBOLT]

Have you vented the gas cap? We had to vent our Buddy gas cap to stop this type of problem. It is called the "Stall of Shame" I think. I KNOW venting the gas cap fixed our problem.

Karl

[savannv]

Thanks for the advice.

Yes, they replaced w/ a vented gas cap last time.

And they've claimed to check the stator already, though I suspect they should replace it anyway, as they admitted that the test can be faulty.

It may indeed be a gas issue, but it's now happened since fixing the fuel clog and replacing the gas cap.

I hope that it just resolves itself, but in the meantime I live in Orlando, where roads are horrendous and it's outright dangerous for my vehicle to abruptly shut off in traffic. Not to mention that this scooter is my sole means of transportation, and I can't afford to miss work or school because my vehicle randomly shuts down either. It's pretty unacceptable that I paid full price for this brand new thing, and so far it's served me about as well as an $800 Chinese scooter. Also unacceptable that my vehicle's repeatedly in the shop for over a week while Genuine ignores phone calls.

[jrsjr]

Thanks for the advice.

Yes, they replaced w/ a vented gas cap last time.

And they've claimed to check the stator already, though I suspect they should replace it anyway, as they admitted that the test can be faulty.

If the problem is an intermittent electrical failure in the ignition pickup coil, as I suspect, there is no way to troubleshoot it. As in the AdvRider thread I linked above, you swap out the stator assembly and see if the problem goes away. That's the nature of the beast. Sorry.

P.S. Everything I've said is predicated on your dealer having already checked all the stuff that's been mentioned by the others above, but it sounds like they have.

[agrogod]

Quick obvious question, "Do you get your gas from the same place all the time?"

[savannv]

Thank you all very much for your help.

The nightmare continues. I don't advise reading this if you're only interested in the technical aspect of this problem.

Yamaha replaced the stator and the coil, although no problem was formally diagnosed with those parts.

However, when I went to pick up the scooter today, it started and after a few seconds stuttered very obviously, then continued running oddly, as it has done after past shut-downs. The stutter was so plainly abnormal that my boyfriend, who's never ridden a motorcycle, was taken aback by it. As the techs had just been riding the scooter this same afternoon in the 90-degree Florida weather, it was not simply due to a cold start. The service manager came out smirking and tried to start up the scooter himself, which was like watching a clown routine--first he tried to use the kick start as the stand, then he couldn't find the killswitch (I had to come switch it myself), turned on my hazards accidentally, then tried to shut off the hazards by jabbing the headlights button repeatedly. (Sorry for the gratuitous description, just wanted to convey what kind of people I'm dealing with.) We then argued for a while (he insisted it must have been a cold start), which only led to me leaving the scooter there again, and us both agreeing to contact Genuine separately.

At this point, I'm attempting to get my money back. I contacted Genuine and Ken from customer service just returned my call. I was shocked to find that he automatically copped a rude and defensive attitude. First he tried to insist that he's always returned my calls, which is wildly, jaw-droppingly untrue . Then, as I outlined the problems I was having in a somewhat heated but even tone (no cursing yet!), he said in a very nasty voice, "We've gone above and beyond with you" and "We don't deal directly with the public" (except for that Facebook which he, the "customer service" rep, maintains?). At which point I just about had a heart attack and began raising my voice (yet still no cursing or insults!), explaining why I have a right to contact Genuine directly, and then he HUNG UP ON ME. And I promise I'm not a crazy person, y'all; this is not something I enjoy--I've never argued with a business this way.

I'm going straight to the BBB, don't know what else to do. So sorry to anyone who didn't want to see such a lengthy post! It's not my intention to just be a whiner unloading complaints on the board. But this has been too crazy to not share it with Buddy people, and I think other consumers deserve to know about my experience.


*No, I get my gas from various places.

[skully93]

That sounds horrible!

I can't understand why this can't be fixed. There's not all that much to a scooter, and since you bought it new, it's under warranty.

If they can't figure it out, it's their duty to ask Genuine for help/replacement.

Since you aren't getting help, it seems appropriate to seek help from Genuine directly.

Good luck!

[jrsjr]

Sooo sorry for your troubles. The stator was my best guess aside from the the other stuff which was covered by others. I apologize if I misled you. I've read your posts carefully again and in your last post my attention is now drawn to the following comment, "then continued running oddly, as it has done after past shut-downs." You didn't mention that symptom in your original post(s). Does it always do that? What does it sound like? Didn't the mechanic at your dealer notice it?

P.S. I don't know what your situation is vis-a-vis Genuine so I can't comment on that except to say that I wish the situation hadn't happened.

[TomCat]

From your initial post:

I want to consult fellow Buddy people before I rely on the wisdom of the old con artists at the local Yamaha dealership

Why would you say that? Had a bad experience at this shop before?
Why are you dealing with a Yamaha dealership anyway?
Or are they also a Genuine dealership and you bought the scoot there?

[ericalm]

Your experience is different from what most of us here have experienced with Genuine. Sorry to hear it's gone this way.

The responsibility for making the repair and getting the scooter running is primarily on the dealer. They are the customer service part of the network. They diagnose the issues, submit the repair to Genuine and provide the needed service. It's up to them to communicate with Genuine to find the solution.

Solutions aren't always immediately apparent. The symptoms you describe can be caused by electrical, fuel and/or air issues. If they can't replicate the issue, it's sometimes down to trial and error to get it repaired.

All that said, I'm very sympathetic and have had scooters laid up for months in the past due to various issues. It's maddening!

I really get the sense that the dealer is fumbling or missing something. We've almost never heard reports of a new Buddy having problems so early that weren't either something very minor and easily fixed or the result of improper maintenance (by owner of mechanic), negligence or something along those lines.

[Howardr]

There are some amazing scooter minds here on modern Buddy, but they don't really have too much to go on so far. What are the chances of you getting some video, especially audio, of the problem?

How far is it to the next closest Genuine dealer? Maybe getting another set of eyes on it would help.

Are there any scooter clubs in your area. Many scooter clubs have one or more top notch mechanical types in them. (I know mine does.) They may be able to help as well.

Howard

[phatch]

Ahhh bummer! I wanted to throw in a +1 for replacing the stator- that fixed all of my stalling issues that no vented gas cap could solve!

[jrsjr]

What are the chances of you getting some video, especially audio, of the problem?

Howard, are you thinking something really odd is happening here, like maybe a valve sticking or ???

[savannv]

Thanks for the support!

The sound it makes after it shuts down and I restart is a kind of unsteady revving, plus very odd vibrations that it would not ordinarily make. I don't know how to put it except that it sounds like it's plainly struggling. After the second time it shut off while riding, I rode it about two miles or less an hour after the incident, and it was still making those sounds (and lagging), but to a lesser extent. Before shutting down that second time, the scooter also began intensely lurching for a few seconds before the abrupt shutdown. I did explain this to the dealer and to Genuine too, actually.

This Yamaha is a licensed Genuine dealer, the only one in the area. Under the warranty, they have to service my scooter. That's the only reason I go to them. Bought the scooter there.

I could possibly try to get a video of the problem, but that would entail retrieving the scooter, which I'm just not doing at this point, and driving it for God knows how long until it happens again, since this has been an intermittent problem.

I do understand that responsibility for fixing the scooter lies primarily with Yamaha, not Genuine. That would be the norm with just about any vehicle. But at the same time, Genuine has been uncooperative with Yamaha in responding to calls, giving advice on the issue, sending parts, working out warranty, etc. And when I have spoken to Genuine myself, they have repeatedly bad-mouthed the dealer, which is funny, I think, considering that Genuine chose to license them as a dealer of their product. So, you know, I've had little choice but to deal with Genuine directly to make sure I'm being taken care of. That said, I haven't been taken care of in the least. Not once has any party even said 'sorry' or accepted a minute bit of responsibility. Much less offered me any kind of compensation, although the thing has been out of commission for near 2 months all put together. I also had to turn down a job because I have no reliable transportation. Anyway whaa wha wha.

Right now the thing is still with the dealer. Supposedly a Genuine regional rep came out less week (I had to call the next week to find that out), and I'm supposed to be waiting on a call from them. Yet still no response from that old upstanding Genuine, what do you know.

Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond to read about this headache!

[Len]

Thank you all very much for your help.

The nightmare continues. I don't advise reading this if you're only interested in the technical aspect of this problem.

...At this point, I'm attempting to get my money back. I contacted Genuine and Ken from customer service just returned my call. I was shocked to find that he automatically copped a rude and defensive attitude. First he tried to insist that he's always returned my calls, which is wildly, jaw-droppingly untrue . Then, as I outlined the problems I was having in a somewhat heated but even tone (no cursing yet!), he said in a very nasty voice, "We've gone above and beyond with you" and "We don't deal directly with the public" (except for that Facebook which he, the "customer service" rep, maintains?). At which point I just about had a heart attack and began raising my voice (yet still no cursing or insults!), explaining why I have a right to contact Genuine directly, and then he HUNG UP ON ME. And I promise I'm not a crazy person, y'all; this is not something I enjoy--I've never argued with a business this way.

I'm going straight to the BBB, don't know what else to do. So sorry to anyone who didn't want to see such a lengthy post! It's not my intention to just be a whiner unloading complaints on the board. But this has been too crazy to not share it with Buddy people, and I think other consumers deserve to know about my experience.


*No, I get my gas from various places.

I am not only sorry to hear about your troubles with your scooter and also GENUINE, but this is causing me to RE-Consider getting a Genuine product. I have been saving for a new scooter for several yeears and will be getting one this spring/summer. With this information now I am wondering if Genuine is the way to go???????

Reliability and company support is most important. I had never heeard of an issue with Genuine responding to a customer and THIS make me seriously wonder what is going on with Genuine.

I do hope this works out and there is a reasonable explanation.

Please keep us posted on your progress.

[jijifer]

I know this isn't always the culprit but it super sounds like what happened to me the two times the cap on my spark plug came loose. Could it be so simple they're over looking it? It's done so to me twice in 26K+ miles. When it does, it lurches, revs horribly, slows way down, eventually shuts off and even then all the other electrics worked. Before it dies completely, I can get it to start a couple of times but it sounds like I'm killing it. the CAP not the spark plug.